Jesus is God

[GodsGrace]

The doctrine came about because of defects in the Tenakh which came about after the temple was destroyed. After Israel was raptured and destroyed, scribes smoking weed in the Babylonian area thought they would change the prophetical writings to support Akiba and his fake messiah.

Whose Akiba???

But we DO know who Jesus is !

Many messiahs.
Only ONE true one.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Great proof for the Trinity!
The other God is called an angel....
Great.
Thanks for posting.

It isn't proof of the trinity. It is proof of pre-modalism. It starts the doctrine, but as if the God, Jesus becomes less a person. Justin invented Metatron.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Many messiahs.
Only ONE true one.

David was a messiah, and so was Aaron; and it is suspected that moses was one too.

 

[PS95]

The doctrine came about because of defects in the Tenakh which came about after the temple was destroyed. After Israel was raptured and destroyed, scribes smoking weed in the Babylonian area thought they would change the prophetical writings to support Akiba and his fake messiah.

You did not answer my Q. Are you Jw, Christadelphian..what? Now I see why. You are a Preterist--- raptured in 70 ad. 2nd Coming is over and you are on the new heavens and earth now too? I DONT WANT TO KNOW.
You fit in well with all of the looney ideas on this forum with their own personal magic dust fairytales.
Please don't post more to me. This will go nowhere... thanks

 

[MonoBiblical]

You did not answer my Q. Are you Jw, Christadelphian..what? Now I see why. You are a Preterist--- raptured in 70 ad. 2nd Coming is over and you are on the new heavens and earth now too? I DONT WANT TO KNOW.
You fit in well with all of the looney ideas on this forum with their own personal magic dust fairytales.
Please don't post more to me. This will go nowhere... thanks

I am not a Christadelphian, or a JW. I am a Bible Unitarian.

And you will have to put up with free speech.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is the beginning of the trinity misinterpretation. He influenced by Ignatius who was influenced by Valentinus.

Are you now denying that Ignatius of Antioch believed Jesus God?

Ignatius of Antioch believed Jesus was God..

Ignatius of Antioch speaks to a number of issues that have been disputed among Christians for centuries. Regarding the identity of Jesus Christ, St. Ignatius could not be more forthright in asserting his divinity. In the course of his seven letters he explicitly calls Jesus “God” (theos) a total of sixteen times (e.g., Eph. inscr, 15:3, 18:2; Ro. inscr , 3:3, Smyr. 10:1).

There is no question of his meaning; he does not call Jesus God in a loose or merely honorific sense. Ignatius affirms that Christ is the invisible, Timeless (achronos) one, by nature incapable of suffering, who becomes visible and vulnerable to suffering through his human birth in time (Poly. 3:2). To call Christ “timeless” means that he cannot be the first and greatest created spirit, as Arius claimed in the fourth century and as the Jehovah’s Witnesses still maintain today.

Rather, two hundred years before Constantine and the Council of Nicaea, Ignatius teaches that Christ is eternal, above time and all creation, God in the full sense of the term.

source: Ignatius of Antioch on the Humanity and Divinity of Christ - Dr. Italy


I have already posted quotes by him...I will again if necessary.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Are you now denying that Ignatius of Antioch believed Jesus God?

Ignatius of Antioch believed Jesus was God..

Ignatius of Antioch speaks to a number of issues that have been disputed among Christians for centuries. Regarding the identity of Jesus Christ, St. Ignatius could not be more forthright in asserting his divinity. In the course of his seven letters he explicitly calls Jesus “God” (theos) a total of sixteen times (e.g., Eph. inscr, 15:3, 18:2; Ro. inscr , 3:3, Smyr. 10:1).

There is no question of his meaning; he does not call Jesus God in a loose or merely honorific sense. Ignatius affirms that Christ is the invisible, Timeless (achronos) one, by nature incapable of suffering, who becomes visible and vulnerable to suffering through his human birth in time (Poly. 3:2). To call Christ “timeless” means that he cannot be the first and greatest created spirit, as Arius claimed in the fourth century and as the Jehovah’s Witnesses still maintain today.

Rather, two hundred years before Constantine and the Council of Nicaea, Ignatius teaches that Christ is eternal, above time and all creation, God in the full sense of the term.

source: Ignatius of Antioch on the Humanity and Divinity of Christ - Dr. Italy


I have already posted quotes by him...I will again if necessary.

His highest god was Jesus. But he was a Valentinian, which means he was already confused by [a] Cerinthus.

 

[GodsGrace]

It isn't proof of the trinity. It is proof of pre-modalism. It starts the doctrine, but as if the God, Jesus becomes less a person. Justin invented Metatron.

Could be pre-modalism.
As I've stated, coming to a conclusion as to exactly who/what Jesus was did not happen immediately...
however the seeds were always there,,,from Genesis onward.

For those reading along...
modalism is heretical.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Could be pre-modalism.
As I've stated, coming to a conclusion as to exactly who/what Jesus was did not happen immediately...
however the seeds were always there,,,from Genesis onward.

For those reading along...
modalism is heretical.

At least, you are not sniveling.

 

[GodsGrace]

His highest god was Jesus. But he was a Valentinian, which means he was already confused by Cerinthus.

Don't know who they are.
Don't care to know.
I think I know enough about church history and have forgotten a lot.
Justin didn't say his highest God is Jesus.
He said Jesus IS GOD.
There's a difference.

 

[GodsGrace]

At least, you are not sniveling.

Why would I?
I know Whom I have believed.

We're just talking here.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Don't know who they are.
Don't care to know.
I think I know enough about church history and have forgotten a lot.
Justin didn't say his highest God is Jesus.
He said Jesus IS GOD.
There's a difference.

But he forced the Jews and Muslim to say there is only one god. Which is a falsehood. There is only one God who is important.

He either said 3 or 2 gods from quotes so far.

 

[PS95]

Why would I?
I know Whom I have believed.

We're just talking here.

wasting time is more like it. He is a Unitarian Preterist.
where there is leaven it always spreads like gangrene and this is precisely a case of that.
I will msg you

 

[HealthyShape]

Justin Martyr On The Logos

There is an intensification of Logos christology among the early apologists especially with Justin Martyr. Justin makes no explicit mention of the Fourth

www.patheos.com

Justin argues that the Logos is “another God and Lord under the Creator of all things, who is also called an Angel, because he proclaims to man whatever the Creator of the world— above whom there is no other God— wishes to reveal to them” (Dial. 56.4; cf. 55.1; 61.1; 128.4; 129.4). This angel “called God, is distinct from God, the Creator; distinct, that is, in number, but not in mind” (Dial. 56.11). A God beneath God is supported by way of citations to Ps 45:6-7 and 110:1 (Dial. 56.14). Justin identifies God with the Angel of the Lord, this Angel with the pre-incarnate Christ, who appeared to Moses in the fire (Dial. 57-60; 127.4; 1 Apol. 62.3-4; 63.7-8, 17).[8]

The mainstream scholarly view is that Justin understood a triad of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but lacked the later precise doctrinal vocabulary that was formed in reaction to various heresies.
Such proto-Trinitarian views were common in early second-century theology.

What matters is the New Testament and the consensus of the church. Not the opinions of individuals. Online forums are a great example how individuals wander to all kind of weird directions.

 

[MonoBiblical]

What matters is the New Testament and the consensus of the church.

I am outspoken, but the consensus is wrong. The consensus also has nothing to do with obeying the laws.

 

[HealthyShape]

I am outspoken, but the consensus is wrong. The consensus also has nothing to do with obeying the laws.

The consensus is not wrong, it is biblical. And we are not talking about any laws, we are talking about Trinity, or, specifically in this thread, about "Jesus is God".

 

[rebuilder 454]

You did not answer my Q. Are you Jw, Christadelphian..what? Now I see why. You are a Preterist--- raptured in 70 ad. 2nd Coming is over and you are on the new heavens and earth now too? I DONT WANT TO KNOW.
You fit in well with all of the looney ideas on this forum with their own personal magic dust fairytales.
Please don't post more to me. This will go nowhere... thanks

I Think there are 3 or 4 of those 70 ad second coming people here on the board.
I just shake my head.
I was talking to one of them yesterday and he or she thinks that Elijah was not taken up to heaven.
But was translated or transposed to another Location on Earth. Were he wrote on letter to a king 10 yrs after his "non trip to heaven" I think it was Jehoraphen (Jehosophats successor)

 

[HealthyShape]

I Think there are 3 or 4 of those 70 ad second coming people here on the board.
I just shake my head.

It looks weird until one reads the NT in the way it was meant to be read, not in the modern style of futuristic interpretation.

All the authors in the NT really believed and claimed they live in the last days. Were they inspired or not? A futurist must go with half-beliefs - they were inspired regarding what, but totally wrong regarding when.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It looks weird until one reads the NT in the way it was meant to be read, not in the modern style of futuristic interpretation.

All the authors in the NT really believed and claimed they live in the last days. Were they inspired or not? A futurist must go with half-beliefs - they were inspired regarding what, but totally wrong regarding when.

There is zero evidence of a 70 ad second coming.

 

[HealthyShape]

There is zero evidence of a 70 ad second coming.

So, do you believe Jesus and apostles were wrong? If that is the case, why to even wait for fulfillment? They could be wrong about anything.