The Coming of Christ and the Kingdoms — a Clear Chronology of events.

[rwb]

Jesus said plainly, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Again He said, “Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:5–6). This shows why man must be born again. We are born once in flesh, but that flesh is weak and cannot inherit the kingdom of God. We need a new life from the Spirit, to be made alive in God.

Being born again does NOT change or give life to our natural body of flesh and blood. To be born again is to give life to the spirit in man through the Spirit of Christ in us. The spirit in man became dead in trespasses and sins, in the same way our natural body did. Because the spirit (mind/heart) controls the deeds of our flesh. For that reason, mankind MUST be born again of the spirit through Christ's Spirit, not of flesh. That's what Christ means when He says the born of flesh is flesh, and that born of the Spirit is spirit. It is spiritual life, nor physical life man/woman of faith receive when we are born again. As I have repeatedly said, man MUST be born again of the Spirit of Christ to overcome the second death. Being born again is to have part in the first resurrection, that is the resurrection of life.

Our natural mortal body of flesh and blood shall NOT be resurrected changed immortal and incorruptible until the hour coming, when the last/seventh trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer or there shall no longer be delay. The new life man receives when they are born again is of our spirit and not our physical flesh. That's why the spirit in man obtains eternal/everlasting life when they are born again, but the physical flesh shall not be changed until the last day when Christ comes again.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48 (KJV) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The last day is NOT followed by another one thousand years!

Here Jesus teaches that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive to God. Though their bodies died, their spirits live, waiting for the resurrection.

Exactly! The spirit of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is alive after physical death because in life they remained faithful unto death. These Old Covenant saints, like all faithful saints together shall be bodily resurrected immortal and incorruptible in the hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds on the LAST DAY of this age. They could not ascend to heaven until Christ came to set the captives of death free by His death on the cross and resurrection to life again. Since the advent of Christ, they, with all the faithful spiritual body of Christ are as angels of God in heaven, waiting for the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven to be complete then Christ comes again.

Jesus Himself is the first to rise from the dead never to die again. He said, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die” (John 11:25–26). This is why those who belong to Him must be born again. They pass from death to life even now in spirit, and in the last day He will raise them up in a body that cannot die (John 6:40, 54). The disciples also speak the same way. Peter declared, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3). Being “begotten again” is the new birth, tied directly to the resurrection of Christ.

Here you clearly show that you understand what or WHO the first resurrection is and that man partakes of the resurrection of Christ during this life. That's why John writes the faithful martyred souls he sees alive after death "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years", or during their time alive on this earth. So why do you continue to argue for one thousand more years of time for this earth, and also for two physical resurrections separated by one thousand years??? Your doctrines are contradictive and confusing, making nonsense of what John has written. You make a distinction between new birth from above, and physical resurrection from physical death but then argue against it??????

This means believers are already raised spiritually with Christ, though we wait still for the body to be raised immortal and incorruptible.

If you understand this truth, why do you continue to argue for two bodily resurrections separated by one thousand years of more time for this earth? To be spiritually raised with Christ is to pass from spiritual death to spiritual life. Only those who have been begotten from above have already overcome the second death that is the lake of fire. Instead of death whosoever is begotten from above, having part in the resurrection of Christ (the first resurrection) in time (a thousand years) shall be bodily resurrected immortal and incorruptible, while the rest of the dead in the graves shall be bodily resurrected for judgment and cast into the eternal flames.

So we see: mankind must be born again because the kingdom of God is not for flesh and blood as we are now, but for those made alive by the Spirit. Christ came, died, and rose again so that both the saints before Him and those after might be alive to God. Those who believe are already alive in spirit, and on the last day they will be raised in a body that cannot die, to live with Him forever on the new earth.

EXACTLY! Since you know this, why do you not acknowledge the first resurrection that is the resurrection of Christ, is how man of faith partaking of Him, though His Spirit in us is NOT another physical resurrection of faithful saints, that will be separated by one thousand more years of time and then the rest of the dead too shall be resurrected for judgment?

 

[LoveYeshua]

You are not seeing your illogical use of scripture.

All the people who rule with Christ are the resurrected saints, correct?
Reign 1000 years,

Then Satan get released, and deceives who? Who are the people who get deceived?
The rest of mankind, who are they?

Did they not before the return of Christ worship the Dragon? And get his mark? BEFORE the 1000 years of time.
Were they not all destroyed when Christ returned?

I have answered this already here is the texts again please read;

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

Rev 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Of course the saints did not worship the dragon! it it illogical to think that they would be made saints if they did is it not?

 

[Scott Downey]

I have answered this already here is the texts again please read;

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

Rev 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Of course the saints did not worship the dragon! it it illogical to think that they would be made saints if they did is it not?

I guess you won't answer the question where the rebels come from then. I am sure you're understanding my question, it is a clear question.
You think resurrected saints have children or something??

If you were honest with me, you would face the question even as it conflicts with your doctrine and you would need to change your mind.
Do you prefer the praise of God or the praise of men around you?

 

[Scott Downey]

The answer is obvious, there are no unsaved nations on the earth after Christ's return. I posted all the scriptures I can think of that proves this, according to our standard for today, the New Testament word of Christ and His apostles.

But to admit to that truth, a person would have to totally reorient their mind away from their current doctrine wherein they believe in a 1000 year reign on this earth after the return of Christ, and they don't want to go there. I don't know what it is, pride, stubborn stiff neck syndrome, an I am right and therefore you must be wrong kind of thing, they follow their church doctrinal teachings.

Fo me, I follow the doctrine when it follows the truth. I care nothing for any man's varied religious philosophies.
I don't model my belief system according to some particular religious group, even though I once did.
I actually have changed my mind too, on this particular issue.

 

[Scott Downey]

Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

Glorified resurrected saints won't be having children.
The question of where such an army comes from is mute as such a huge army does not exist during an earthly 1000 years reign with Christ on this old first earth after the return of Christ, as there is no one left to have huge numbers of children, rebel, be deceived by Satan and form a rebellious army of Satan followers.

It shows that the way the permill explains this is a Christian myth.
Plainly, as taught by that POV, it is a false doctrine.

 

[rwb]

I have answered this already here is the texts again please read;

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,

Rev 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

Rev 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.

Rev 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Of course the saints did not worship the dragon! it it illogical to think that they would be made saints if they did is it not?

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

After the thousand years are complete, Satan is loosed for a little season, and the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven shall be complete. Because a thousand years symbolizes time given the church on earth to build the spiritual Kingdom of God as the gospel of the Kingdom is preached unto all the earth. Then the seventh/last trumpet shall begin to sound and Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristian party) led by Satan will march across the earth to surround the faithful saints still physically alive at this time, trying one last time to prevent the Kingdom of God in heaven from being complete. There shall be no victory because the sounding of the seventh trumpet announces the Second Coming of Christ in the air.

Matthew 24:30-31 (KJV) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

All of His elect, both those who have physically died and those who are still physically alive at His coming shall be caught up together in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Satan's little season shall be no longer because the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven is complete, there are no other elect to be saved. Then the fire from God will come down from heaven to devour everything and everyone still alive on the earth, and the DEAD will be called to stand before the GWT to be judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

It is my belief that the seventh/last angel shall begin to sound the trumpet during the days of Satan's "little season" after the thousand years of time shall be no longer. When the sound of the seventh angel begins the mystery of God should be finished, or the Gospel of the Kingdom of God is completed when the last Gentile has been born again through the power of the Gospel preached and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Davy]

You might have a valid point if the sheep and goats judgment and the great white throne judgment are the same judgment. I tend to think they are not the same judgment.

They aren't the same judgment.

The separation of the "goats" from Christ's "sheep" happens on the day of His future return. The "goats" represent the unsaved and wicked. Revelation 20 and Zechariah 14 specifically reveal UNSAVED nations will still exist during the future "thousand years" reign by Christ and His elect, as written there in Revelation 20. In the Zechariah 14 example, it even shows how some of the unsaved nations will refuse to come up to Jerusalem from year to year and worship The KING (Jesus Christ) and keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And because of that, those nations will have no rain upon their lands.

So how is all that going to happen if all the wicked and unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return?? Because man's false Amill theories go opposite of what is Biblically written, it is just a defunct doctrine from men designed to deceive, and nothing more.

 

[Scott Downey]

Since the entire earth burns and is dissolved at the coming of Christ again, how can there be any unsaved ungodly survivors left to repopulate a burned out and dissolved earth? An earth that in premill thinking is the same one as today.

Scripturally there is only the old first earth, then the New regenerated earth.
Our resurrection and the regeneration of the world as the new earth, in which there is no more evil.
The unbelieving are killed by Christ in fiery destruction and judged.

2 Peter 3

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you, in both of which I stir up your purity of mind by way of remembrance,

2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,

3 knowing this first: that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”

5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (judgment of hell awaits the wicked at Christ's return)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(time to God is not like men look at time, the 2000 year delay of Christ's return for example is God building His church)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(Christ always describes His second coming as like a thief coming in the night, at an unexpected time)

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,
(Since at the return of Christ, all things will be changed, and our former lives no more we should look towards the eternal state, not this current world as it will be gone-destroyed)

12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Therefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you,

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things beforehand, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
(Unstable people, ignorant of the plans of God will change, wrest, and distort the scripture in the time of the end as perilous times will come and many be deceived, evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. )

18 But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[IndianaRob]

Since the entire earth burns and is dissolved at the coming of Christ again, how can there be any unsaved ungodly survivors left to repopulate a burned out and dissolved earth? An earth that in premill thinking is the same one as today.

Scripturally there is only the old first earth, then the New regenerated earth.
Our resurrection and the regeneration of the world as the new earth, in which there is no more evil.
The unbelieving are killed by Christ in fiery destruction and judged.

2 Peter 3

This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you, in both of which I stir up your purity of mind by way of remembrance,

2 that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,

3 knowing this first: that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”

5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (judgment of hell awaits the wicked at Christ's return)

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(time to God is not like men look at time, the 2000 year delay of Christ's return for example is God building His church)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat. The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(Christ always describes His second coming as like a thief coming in the night, at an unexpected time)

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy manner of living and godliness,
(Since at the return of Christ, all things will be changed, and our former lives no more we should look towards the eternal state, not this current world as it will be gone-destroyed)

12 looking for and hastening unto the coming of the Day of God, wherein the heavens, being on fire, shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Therefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation, even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given unto him, hath written unto you,

16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things. Therein are some things hard to understand, which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing that ye know these things beforehand, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness.
(Unstable people, ignorant of the plans of God will change, wrest, and distort the scripture in the time of the end as perilous times will come and many be deceived, evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. )

18 But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 – “One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.”

According to this verse, the earth itself never ends, and generations of people will come and go perpetually.

That verse has to be considered too.

 

[Scott Downey]

Ecclesiastes 1:4 – “One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.”

According to this verse, the earth itself never ends, and generations of people will come and go perpetually.

That verse has to be considered too.

I know what you are saying, I am working with the New Testament and what it says.

In the New Testament is new revelation, and a better explanation, is how I view things.

 

[Scott Downey]

There will always be an earth, just that the first earth is replaced by the new earth.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea.

 

[IndianaRob]

There will always be an earth, just that the first earth is replaced by the new earth.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea.

I agree. I think there have been many new earths. Every time there is a great cataclysm we get a new earth. The earth today is nothing like the earth in Jesus day which wasn’t like the earth before the flood.

The only new heaven that I can see is when Abraham’s bosom was heaven for God’s people but now our heaven is in God’s presence.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree. I think there have been many new earths. Every time there is a great cataclysm we get a new earth. The earth today is nothing like the earth in Jesus day which wasn’t like the earth before the flood.

The only new heaven that I can see is when Abraham’s bosom was heaven for God’s people but now our heaven is in God’s presence.

Abraham's bosom was taken up into Heaven with Christ when He ascended.
He led the captivity captive. Those in Abraham's bosom were in paradise, not heaven, not in the Prescence of God in Heaven. Jesus is the Door into God's heaven for people to live in heaven with God. Before Christ came, all people were either in fiery torments or paradise when they physically died and passed on. Each one went to their proper place determined by God and carried by angels into Abraham's bosum or they found themselves in fiery torments. Paradise was a temporary captivity for the righteous who died before Christ came, not heaven, not hell but a place of pleasant and good things, maybe like Eden was before the fall. God always provides good things for His people, back then and for today.

Well, Peter about the flood of Noah, does say the earth as it was back then was destroyed

2 Peter 3

5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[HealthyShape]

I agree. I think there have been many new earths. Every time there is a great cataclysm we get a new earth. The earth today is nothing like the earth in Jesus day which wasn’t like the earth before the flood.

You mean spiritually different? Or do you believe the earth has been changed physically?

 

[IndianaRob]

You mean spiritually different? Or do you believe the earth has been changed physically?

I mean physically different as in the earth has been physically changed.

Something happened in the past where it looks like the earths surface, at least large parts of it were liquefied. There are buildings all over the world where first floors of multi-story building are underground. They have entry stair cases and windows that open and close that are completely underground. Most people call whatever caused that the “Mud Flood”.

It seems like these catastrophes are pretty frequent, and they seem to happen in every “Great Reset”.

 

[HealthyShape]

I mean physically different as in the earth has been physically changed.

Something happened in the past where it looks like the earths surface, at least large parts of it were liquefied. There are buildings all over the world where first floors of multi-story building are underground. They have entry stair cases and windows that open and close that are completely underground. Most people call whatever caused that the “Mud Flood”.

It seems like these catastrophes are pretty frequent, and they seem to happen in every “Great Reset”.

Well, the surface of the planet is constantly changing, sure... because of weather, floods, tectonics, erosion and even because of life. But it is still the same planet, right?

 

[IndianaRob]

Well, the surface of the planet is constantly changing, sure... because of weather, floods, tectonics, erosion and even because of life. But it is still the same planet, right?

Yes it’s the same earth but when the Bible says a new earth, it doesn’t mean a new planet because Ecclesiastes says the earth abides forever.

I’m sure there’s enough information in the Bible to know for sure what “new earth” means but I haven’t dug into that too much.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes it’s the same earth but when the Bible says a new earth, it doesn’t mean a new planet because Ecclesiastes says the earth abides forever.

I’m sure there’s enough information in the Bible to know for sure what “new earth” means but I haven’t dug into that too much.

"Forever" is not literal, though, right? Because nothing physical lasts forever.

 

[IndianaRob]

Abraham's bosom was taken up into Heaven with Christ when He ascended.
He led the captivity captive. Those in Abraham's bosom were in paradise, not heaven, not in the Prescence of God in Heaven. Jesus is the Door into God's heaven for people to live in heaven with God. Before Christ came, all people were either in fiery torments or paradise when they physically died and passed on. Each one went to their proper place determined by God and carried by angels into Abraham's bosum or they found themselves in fiery torments. Paradise was a temporary captivity for the righteous who died before Christ came, not heaven, not hell but a place of pleasant and good things, maybe like Eden was before the fall. God always provides good things for His people, back then and for today.

Well, Peter about the flood of Noah, does say the earth as it was back then was destroyed

2 Peter 3

5 For of this they are willfully ignorant: that by the Word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water,

6 whereby the world as it then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

7 But the heavens and the earth which now are, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I disagree but that’s ok. I’m just adding to the discussion.

 

[IndianaRob]

"Forever" is not literal, though, right? Because nothing physical lasts forever.

I don’t know of any other version of forever. I’m open to another view if you have one.