Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[shepherdsword]

Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Much love!

Excellent verse.

 

[marks]

The relationship that Jesus has with his church is compared to a man becoming one with his wife. It's in the scriptures.

Just a small thing . . . in reality, the marriage relationship is compared to our relationship with God.

Ephesians 5:30-31 KJV
30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

We are members of Jesus' body, and that's why men and women get married.

Even if we were to understand "I never knew you" to mean "I never had a relationship with you like the husband and wife have", still, we are talking about those who never had saving relationship with Jesus.

So when Jesus said, I never knew you, it means the same, there was never anything real there.

Much love!

 

[shepherdsword]

Just a small thing . . . in reality, the marriage relationship is compared to our relationship with God.

Ephesians 5:30-31 KJV
30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

We are members of Jesus' body, and that's why men and women get married.

And that is my justification for how I defined "know" in Jesus' statement

Even if we were to understand "I never knew you" to mean "I never had a relationship with you like the husband and wife have", still, we are talking about those who never had saving relationship with Jesus.

So when Jesus said, I never knew you, it means the same, there was never anything real there.

Much love!

Or he could have been saying that they never entered into a deeper level of intimacy that actually produced obedience. Hence, He called them "workers of iniquity"

 

[Lizbeth]

"ginosko", "I know". It covers, "I know what is for dinner", "I know who you are", "I know true doctrine", and yes, "to know" is used as a euphemism for sex. Not "a sacred form of intimacy", no, the word was used euphemistically for intercourse.

Are you suggesting we are to have sex with Jesus? Because that's how you are coming across! Either you mean to have sex, or you mean "know" in the way we normally use the word.

Much love!

Physical union of a couple being one flesh is just an allegory (parable) of a spiritual union with Christ.

 

[Wick Stick]

The gospel was presented to the world at the time of the early church through a living testimony backed up by the Old Testament Scriptures. The written New Testament came later. Does our understanding of the gospel line up with the Scriptures?

I don't think that the Torah was meant to be predictive.

It's more a case of Jesus and His disciples scrupulously working to model their actions in fulfillment of the Law, than anything else.

 

[marks]

Physical union of a couple being one flesh is just an allegory (parable) of a spiritual union with Christ.

Personally I think the allegory has to do with the husband's care for his wife. I do not see this as concerning physical intimacy.

The husband is to love his wife as his own body, to care for her accordingly, and this is what Christ does for us.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

‘’’’God justifies believers personally by translating them into the higher walk in the kingdom realm of Zion in a walk without sin by the grace of God in resurrection power and life.’’’’



You perfectly without slip obey all of the following?



Let’s start with the Ten Commandments:

Do you ever put anything before God in your life?

Do you ever build any graven images in your mind?

Do you always honour your parents without exception.

Have you ever looked at a woman with lust in your eye? (Jesus ratified the commandment)

Have you ever fibbed about anyone, or been untruthful about a person in anyway?

Have you dwelt on any impure thought?

Do you ever desire ANYTHING of your neighbours, whether material goods or a member of their household?

Do you fully obey the law relating to the inner man, the law only you and God need know you break?

Jesus commands:

If someone asked to lend from you would you gladly lend to them without ever expecting anything back?

If someone stole from you, would you offer them more than what they stole with nothing but love in your heart for them?

Do you not invite friends or family home for a meal, but rather the poor, blind, lame and beggars?

If you have ever fasted, have you even hinted to anyone you are fasting?

Do you truly in your heart love your enemies, those who may malign, harass or persecute you?

Do you leap for joy if you are persecuted?

Do you always truly love all those you come into contact with in thought, word or deed, constantly, including our enemies, those who may be unkind to us, persecute or harass us?



All examples of what it takes to obey the TC, Christ’s teaching and the second greatest commandment.

You don't believe in holiness? What about the power of grace? What about resurrection life? What do you think being under grace means?

 

[Episkopos]

Wow....I did a Berean check on you concerning this. You are correct. It's doesn't say that imputed righteousness is the righteousness of God.
In fact, The Righteousness of God is something we submit to and not something imputed:

Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

I have always held the same assumption Behold has. It seems I was incorrect. I am not saying I agree with 100% of what you say. However, you do say some very interesting things that need to be considered.

The key is in the very description of the higher righteousness...it's called the righteousnes of God...so it is His. The righteousness of saints is called interestingly..."the righteousness of saints". That kind of righteousness comes about by obedience to God in the anointing of the Spirit (a covering of God's righteousness empowering and inspiriting works prepared in advance by God.)

 

[undergrace1]

You don't believe in holiness? What about the power of grace? What about resurrection life? What do you think being under grace means?

You wrote believers can walk without sin. Why did you then not tell me if you perfectly obey all those commands I put before you and therefore do not sin?

 

[Episkopos]

You wrote believers can walk without sin. Why did you then not tell me if you perfectly obey all those commands I put before you and therefore do not sin?

In Christ we walk as He walked in HIS perfection. I have walked that way for 2 lengths of time. The first I lasted a few days. It was new to me and I started to feel trapped...I was far too selfish to appreciate God's miraculous walk in the Spirit. Next time was 18 years later and this time I lasted for 2 and half years. I won some battles but failed a test so I was back to walking as any man. That was 23 years ago or so. I don't know many that understand actually being under grace...and the power that His life brings. Entering INTO Christ. In Him is no sin.

 

[undergrace1]

In Christ we walk as He walked in HIS perfection. I have walked that way for 2 lengths of time. The first I lasted a few days. It was new to me and I started to feel trapped...I was far too selfish to appreciate God's miraculous walk in the Spirit. Next time was 18 years later and this time I lasted for 2 and half years. I won some battles but failed a test so I was back to walking as any man. That was 23 years ago or so. I don't know many that understand actually being under grace...and the power that His life brings. Entering INTO Christ. In Him is no sin.

I understand, you dont want to tell me you perfectly without slip obey that list I put before you. BTW, sin is written about in two different ways in the bible.

 

[Episkopos]

I understand, you dont want to tell me you perfectly without slip obey that list I put before you. BTW, sin is written about in two different ways in the bible.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying or what the testimony of the bible says. And you haven't answered any of my questions. You believe in a sinful walk, obviously...and have not yet tasted divine grace, the power over sin. The perfection is in Christ...that's why we need to enter into Him to abide there, where He is. For where I am you shall also be.

 

[undergrace1]

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying or what the testimony of the bible says. And you haven't answered any of my questions. You believe in a sinful walk, obviously...and have not yet tasted divine grace, the power over sin. The perfection is in Christ...that's why we need to enter into Him to abide there, where He is. For where I am you shall also be.

You need to understand the bible speaks of sin in two different ways. And that is how christians also view sin today. If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless in your flesh to be saved, they would respond ''No'' for they know they are not without sin(1John1:8) However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could live a wanton lifestyle of sin and be saved, they would also respond ''No'' (1John3:9) I asked you one question btw, you refused to answer it!! You commit sin the same as everyone else does, if you do not understand that, the Holy Spirit is not working in your life as He should be able to. Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the Ten Commandments kills. If you do not believe it is sin to transgress what is written in those commands, you must seek a licence to sin

 

[Episkopos]

You need to understand the bible speaks of sin in two different ways. And that is how christians also view sin today. If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless in your flesh to be saved, they would respond ''No'' for they know they are not without sin(1John1:8) However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could live a wanton lifestyle of sin and be saved, they would also respond ''No'' (1John3:9) I asked you one question btw, you refused to answer it!! You commit sin the same as everyone else does, if you do not understand that, the Holy Spirit is not working in your life as He should be able to. Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the Ten Commandments kills. If you do not believe it is sin to transgress what is written in those commands, you must seek a licence to sin

You don't understand the power of grace. How ironic for your screen name. You are simply among the majority who have not walked in the Spirit yet. Is Christ a minister of sin?

“But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.” Gal. 2:17
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. Gal 2:18

Do you consider yourself a transgressor? A name it claim it artist?

What you have is a populist religious view, like so many, of the bible that is no different from the Jews of old. the OT standard of justified sinners. Not so with Christ. The soul that sins it shall die. You are missing the New Covenant.

And you have not understood the difference between the Bride of Christ and the many guests, both bad and good, who are invited to the feast.

So, which are you?

 

[ProDeo]

In Christ we walk as He walked in HIS perfection. I have walked that way for 2 lengths of time. The first I lasted a few days. It was new to me and I started to feel trapped...I was far too selfish to appreciate God's miraculous walk in the Spirit. Next time was 18 years later and this time I lasted for 2 and half years. I won some battles but failed a test so I was back to walking as any man. That was 23 years ago or so. I don't know many that understand actually being under grace...and the power that His life brings. Entering INTO Christ. In Him is no sin.

I understand Epi, I once was like you, indoctrinated by the teachings of Watchman Nee, maybe I misunderstood the man but I landed real hard when I became aware that my (so called) walk in holiness was mixed with a lot of pride, pride of being so holy, my stomach turned.

 

[Lizbeth]

Personally I think the allegory has to do with the husband's care for his wife. I do not see this as concerning physical intimacy.

The husband is to love his wife as his own body, to care for her accordingly, and this is what Christ does for us.

Much love!

Yes but the wife/bride has a role as well. To give herself and allow the Bridegroom to search the inward parts that are hidden in darkness and wash her with the washing of the water of His word, which is alive and active, so that fruit may result. Get the picture? ;) The bible says what may be know of God can be seen in creation. Like David prayed, "Search me and know me o God and see if there be any wicked way in me." That is the bridal intimacy the Lord seeks.

 

[Episkopos]

I understand Epi, I once was like you, indoctrinated by the teachings of Watchman Nee, maybe I misunderstood the man but I landed real hard when I became aware that my (so called) walk in holiness was mixed with a lot of pride, pride of being so holy, my stomach turned.

It's arrogant of you to think I'm following in your footsteps. My walk is my own. Not everyone is a pretender. My testimony lines up with the biblical narrative...that of experience of a walk in holiness without sin...by the empowering of the Spirit. Many throughout history have testified of this. It is a Christian witness, not a copy-cat pretension.

Your situation mirrors the illegal alien call to self-deportation. Once these have left the country they can then apply for citizenship legally. I think that is the best course of action for yourself and any other pretenders. Of course I mean this from a spiritual perspective not a natural one.

 

[Lizbeth]

You need to understand the bible speaks of sin in two different ways. And that is how christians also view sin today. If you asked nearly all christians if you had to be sinless in your flesh to be saved, they would respond ''No'' for they know they are not without sin(1John1:8) However, if you asked nearly all christians if you could live a wanton lifestyle of sin and be saved, they would also respond ''No'' (1John3:9) I asked you one question btw, you refused to answer it!! You commit sin the same as everyone else does, if you do not understand that, the Holy Spirit is not working in your life as He should be able to. Paul told born again christians in the present tense, the letter of the Ten Commandments kills. If you do not believe it is sin to transgress what is written in those commands, you must seek a licence to sin

I think this reflects the difference between wilful and inadvertent sin.

 

[ProDeo]

It's arrogant of you to think I'm following in your footsteps.

Huh?

I never said nor meant that, I just told my experience walking in holiness, no strings attached.

My walk is my own. Not everyone is a pretender. My testimony lines up with the biblical narrative...that of experience of a walk in holiness without sin...by the empowering of the Spirit. Many throughout history have testified of this. It is a Christian witness, not a copy-cat pretension.

Your situation mirrors the illegal alien call to self-deportation. Once these have left the country they can then apply for citizenship legally. I think that is the best course of action for yourself and any other pretenders. Of course I mean this from a spiritual perspective not a natural one.

The disdain exposed....

 

[ProDeo]

Yes but the wife/bride has a role as well. To give herself and allow the Bridegroom to search the inward parts that are hidden in darkness and wash her with the washing of the water of His word, which is alive and active, so that fruit may result. Get the picture? ;) The bible says what may be know of God can be seen in creation. Like David prayed, "Search me and know me o God and see if there be any wicked way in me." That is the bridal intimacy the Lord seeks.

Ps 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts!
Ps 139:24 And see if there be any grievous way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting!

You beat me to it, I had the same verse in mind.