Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[Episkopos]

If i teach you that you must "do righteousness"........of yourself.......to go to heaven,

There you go with the pagan religion of Valhalla again.

No one DOES righteousness to go to heaven (Valhalla)...that is a pagan idea that you teach.

DOING righteousness is for God's MERCY. The MEEK inherit the earth.

......then i have just denied The Cross, as "the power of God unto Salvation".

Yes you have. The cross is what kills our sin nature so that we walk in resurrection life...just like Jesus did...with the same overcoming POWER OF GOD...unto salvation (from sin) into holiness.

I have just denied the Gospel.

You do this all the time. You deny the POWER of the gospel that frees people from sin by translating them into the kingdom realm. The POWER of the cross frees people from all bondage to sin by crucifying the outer man sin nature...this freeing the inner man to be joined with Christ WHERE HE IS...in Zion. As such we PUT ON the NEW MAN...who is Christ.

I have just replaced it with the HERESY Gospel

Finally an admission of what you are doing. Your hypothetical is in fact what you are doing.

= "doing", vs "believing".......and God Salvaiton is completely FAITH gained..."and not by works or by the Law".

You confuse faith with a religious certainty gained through dogmatic beliefs...that have NO POWER to save. They leave you just as you are...but deceived and under a condemnation soon to be revealed.

 

[Behold]

No one DOES righteousness to go to heaven (Valhalla)...that is a pagan idea that you teach.

You are the one who teaches "doing righteousness".

Paul is the one who teaches being "made righteous"..... which is what i teach.

DOING righteousness is for God's MERCY. The MEEK inherit the earth.

The Meek inherit the earth,.....period ........according to the verse.
You added "doing rightousness" to the verse becasue that is more of your bizarre "my doctrine".

The cross is what kills our sin nature so that we walk in resurrection life..

"our old man of sin is crucicifed with Christ"........is what i think you are trying to produce in your posted statement.

So Then, what does Paul say to do with that "old man of sin that is crucified" ??????????
He tells the believer that they are to "reckon him dead"......and that means he's not going to go away unless you do something about it.
Paul then explains that we are to "renew our mind"... we are to "put on the Helmet of Salvation".....and in this way, God's Grace deals with our sin consciousness that wants to take contol of our mind.
A Christian has to be taught what it means to "put on the Helmet of Salvation".. as you dont do it with your hands or with prayer.

.just like Jesus did...with the same overcoming POWER OF GOD...unto salvation (from sin) into holiness.

God's Grace is the root.
God's rightesouness that is "The Righteousness of God in Chrsit'....has become every born again Believer.
The Christian is the 'MADE Righteouse".
A Christian should proclaim.....>"I am the righteousness of God in Christ:":.....because its eternal Truth for them.
So, the fruit of being "made righteous" is Holiness.
Holiness is the Fruit of Salvation......its not the root.
God's Grace... the imputed Righteousness is the Root that produces the fruit of Holiness.

You do this all the time. You deny the POWER of the gospel that frees people from sin

I teach how to be made free from sin.
The final solution is based on correct Faith. = The correct understanding of being "made righteous"..

See, The Gospel that is "the preaching of The Cross".... is the means of Salvation, but the "present your body as a living sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service' after you have received God's Salvation.....is Paul explaining the place of a Christian's empowerment... where God's Grace empowers the fruit of Holiness.

Finally an admission of what you are doing. Your hypothetical is in fact what you are doing.

Try to explain what you just posted using my quote, and then we'll know what you are trying to point out.

You confuse faith with a religious certainty gained through dogmatic beliefs...that have NO POWER to save.

I dont confuse Faith at all.
God said that if we Give Him our Faith in Christ .....then Just like """"Faith is counted as Righteousness to Abraham""" by His faith.....God will impute righteousness to a BELEVER Today, exactly the same way...... Paul teaches.

Our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's)Righteousnes"... imputed to the Believer, exacty as it was imputed to Abraham.... Paul teaches.

 

[ProDeo]

So, you believe that becasue nearly everyone on the Forum has identified themselves as "Christian", then it must be true.

Huh ?

Read again, I did not say anything about the forum members, only about folks participating in this thread.

 

[Episkopos]

You are the one who teaches "doing righteousness".

Paul is the one who teaches being "made righteous"..... which is what i teach.

You are pitting the bible against the bible. I teach what is in the bible. In your scheme you ignore one verse to uphold a faulty understanding of another. Paul would rebuke you for that.

The Meek inherit the earth,.....period ........according to the verse.
You added "doing rightousness" to the verse becasue that is more of your bizarre "my doctrine".

False. DOING righteousness is 100% biblical...and the standard by which almost all believers will be measured against. People will be judged for what they DID, not what they believed. You don't understand how faith works in the holiness equation....or the righteousness equation.

"our old man of sin is crucicifed with Christ"........is what i think you are trying to produce in your posted statement.

You are taking a bible verse out of context and applying it to your beliefs...The bible actually says you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind. Until you repent from your religious ideology...you won't see the truth.

So Then, what does Paul say to do with that "old man of sin that is crucified" ??????????
He tells the believer that they are to "reckon him dead"......and that means he's not going to go away unless you do something about it.

That is not grace....but a human effort. Reckoning the old man dead means realizing he is dead...not pretending he is dead. The gospel is about POWER, not beliefs. The gospel is NOT self-help. It is a miraculous power that translates us into His power and presence...through resurrection life...to walk as He walked. Read the bible.

Paul then explains that we are to "renew our mind"... we are to "put on the Helmet of Salvation".....and in this way, God's Grace deals with our sin consciousness that wants to take contol of our mind.

The sin consciousness is a GOOD thing...like having pain sensors in our body...they protect us from doing harm to ourselves. What you espouse is a dead conscience...like being a spiritual leper. Not the same as being dead to sin. Just dead to conscience.

A Christian has to be taught what it means to "put on the Helmet of Salvation".. as you dont do it with your hands or with prayer.

All these admonitions are about seeking to enter into the kingdom realm, not meant to activate a religious imagination.

God's Grace is the root.
God's rightesouness that is "The Righteousness of God in Chrsit'....has become every born again Believer.

That makes no sense at all. No one can become the righteousness of God. But we can follow the Greek and FULFILL (ginomai) the righteousness of God.

The Christian is the 'MADE Righteouse".
A Christian should proclaim.....>"I am the righteousness of God in Christ:":.....because its eternal Truth for them.

A false claim based on hubris and a lack of humility, understanding, knowledge and wisdom.

In your scheme it's the upside down game. Jesus is seen as sin so that sinners can become the righteousness of God for Him. But if Jesus stops being seen as sin...then what?

You ignore the fact that Jesus was seen as sinful BY MEN...sinful men...not God...and it is by men...sinful men.. that people claim to BECOME God's righteousness for Him.

So, the fruit of being "made righteous" is Holiness.

That's backward. The root of being made to DO righteousness that pleases God ...is holiness. It isn't the gift that sanctifies...it is the altar...as Jesus said. And He said it was hypocrites that reversed that.

Holiness is the Fruit of Salvation......its not the root.

No, holiness is the root. The fruit of holiness is an eternal fruit in righteousness...called the righteousness of saints (holy ones).

God's Grace... the imputed Righteousness is the Root that produces the fruit of Holiness.

No...imputed righteousness has nothing to do with holiness, but with God's mercy on the humble, the faithful, and God-fearing.

I teach how to be made free from sin.
The final solution is based on correct Faith. = The correct understanding of being "made righteous"..

Correct beliefs is the false gospel. No one is saved by having correct beliefs. No one will be given a questionnaire on judgment day.

See, The Gospel that is "the preaching of The Cross".... is the means of Salvation, but the "present your body as a living sacrifice to God, as your reasonable service' after you have received God's Salvation.....is Paul explaining the place of a Christian's empowerment... where God's Grace empowers the fruit of Holiness.

You are preaching works salvation. The preaching of the cross is not about what Jesus did...but about a surrender to be crucified with HIM...NO longer I, but Christ. No effort. Just a rest and abiding in the God who fights for us.

Try to explain what you just posted using my quote, and then we'll know what you are trying to point out.



I dont confuse Faith at all.
God said that if we Give Him our Faith in Christ .....then Just like """"Faith is counted as Righteousness to Abraham""" by His faith.....God will impute righteousness to a BELEVER Today, exactly the same way...... Paul teaches.

Our "Faith is counted by God as (Christ's)Righteousnes"... imputed to the Believer, exacty as it was imputed to Abraham.... Paul teaches.

Abraham's faith is not the faith OF Christ. You are missing Paul's point. Paul was using Abraham to show that a man can be justified before he does anything...by FAITH...not beliefs. And your claim to have God's righteousness is NOT in the bible and is instead being SELF-IMPUTED, the same as all who have believed the delusion.

If you want to operate by beliefs...God has sent a strong delusion on all who don't love the truth and are ready to believe a lie if it suits the self-preservation instinct that comes from the outer man...the very part that God wants to crucify.

 

[Behold]

You are pitting the bible against the bible. I teach what is in the bible.

You twist verses, or add to them as you previously did regarding the "Meek".. and then you say you are teaching the bible.

The MaryCult does the same thing.

You're teaching your ""own doctrine"", and you falsely claim that its "teaching the bible", or you falsy try to tie it to Paul's theology.

False. DOING righteousness is 100% biblical..

Here is your chance to post an example of your "Doing Righteousness", that is not trying to be saved or stay saved or earn heaven by doing it.

And dont post the usual baloney that is...."well, when im flying in Zion"....or any of this religious nonsense.

Simply post 2 of your "doing rightesouenss", that you have performed in the last 10 days.

You are taking a bible verse out of context and applying it to your beliefs...The bible actually says you are poor, naked, wretched, and blind. Until you repent from your religious ideology...you won't see the truth.

The only repenting that God accepts is to repent from unbelief.
Behavior Modification is not accpted by God, as that is a work.
So, that means that the only repentance that God accepts is when you turn from unbelief (repent) to turn to FAITH in Christ.
Repent of your unbelief.......= Turn to faith in Christ...is real repentance.

That is not grace....but a human effort. Reckoning the old man dead means realizing he is dead...not pretending he is dead.

Are their Christian on this Forum?
Do you know any in Canada?
So, if we add all those up as one Group, then how many of them have not confessed sin, in the last year?
See it?
This means that their old man of sin, is active, and they are not "reckoning Him dead".

Paul ( ane me ) teach how to stop that carnal thinking behavior, and have this instead....>>"Chrsit always gives me the Victory" over the world, the flesh and the Devil..........and that is not something you can DO for yourself, as a self effort.

The sin consciousness is a GOOD thing..

Hebrews 10 says that God had to give Righteouenss, because The Law can't end sin consciousness.
To be conscious of sin, is to want to do it., and that is not a good thing.
What is a good thing? ?
To never be conscious of sin, to have NO Sin consciousness.... and instead have a mind that is CLEAN and PURE., FREE of sin conscousness.
= "The mind of Christ"......and you dont have that mind if you head is filled with sin consciousness.

All these admonitions are about seeking to enter into the kingdom realm, not meant to activate a religious imagination.

Every born again Christian is already in the KOG.
They were born again into it.........and that is why the NT says they are ""seated in HEAVENLY PLACES... in Christ"".

That makes no sense at all. No one can become the righteousness of God.

The only way to be righteous is to receive "God Righteousness", as a "Gift".. that is to have become "made righteous".

This is the "imputed righteosness" of God.

Paul teaches this as becoming ..."The Righteousness of God.....In Christ".

Jesus is seen as sin so that sinners can become the righteousness of God for Him. But if Jesus stops being seen as sin...then what?

"God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"........as "The one time Eternal Sacrifice for sin".

See "Eternal Sacrfice for sin".. ????? ........See "ETERNAL".. ?????? ....that means His sacrifice for the sin of the world is eternal.

Its applied = one believer at a time.

John 3:16 Is not universally applied as the heresy of Universalism teaches........but rather its the OFFER that is universal, ("to the WORLD") as John 3:16 teaches.

You ignore the fact that Jesus was seen as sinful BY MEN...sinful men...not God...and it is by men...sinful men.. that people claim to BECOME God's righteousness for Him.

Christians dont claim to become """God's righteousness for Jesus."""
God claims that they are made righteous by "The Gift of Righteousness" imputed to them.

The root of being made to DO righteousness that pleases God ...is holiness.

Being "made righteous"......produces holiness.

The "Imputed righteousness of God", produces holiness.
God says that we are to "be holy like He is Holy" so, how can a sinner do that?
They can't.
So, God has to give them "The Righteousness of God in Christ".. .and that produces the fruit of Holiness through them.

No one is saved by having correct beliefs.

A sinner is saved by God.
Why?
Because they did the will of God, and that will is that you "believe on Jesus whom God sent" and your "FAITH is counted by God as (Christ's) Righteousness".

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD.. (FAITH), and it .. (his faith) was counted unto him by God, as Righteousness'.

This is "the righteousness of Faith" doctrine that is Paul's Theology., and mine.

You are preaching works salvation. The preaching of the cross is not about what Jesus did.

The Preaching of the Cross is to preach that "Christ was Crucified" for you.

Christ Crucified is God's Salvation offer..... This is The only reason that God will accept a sinner.

Abraham's faith is not the faith OF Christ.

Abrahams faith was that He believed God., and that Faith was """counted unto Him as Righteousness.""
So, when we believe God........when we believe that God sent Jesus to The Cross to save us, = by His Blood and Death, then that FAITH is counted unto the BELIEVER... by God.......... exactly as Abraham's faith was counted by God....as "righteousness".

If you want to operate by beliefs...God has sent a strong delusion on all who don't love the truth and are ready to believe a lie if it suits the self-preservation instinct that comes from the outer man...the very part that God wants to crucify.

The Truth is that God offers The Cross of Christ as the only way He will save a sinner and accept a sinner.

John 14:6

 

[Behold]

Huh ?

Read again, I did not say anything about the forum members, only about folks participating in this thread.

The "folks participating in this Thread" are all "forum members".

 

[ProDeo]

The "folks participating in this Thread" are all "forum members".

ONCE AGAIN - I did spoke NOT over all the forum members, you did.

 

[Behold]

ONCE AGAIN - I did spoke NOT over all the forum members, you did.

I simply told you that not everything that would claim to be a Christian is a real one.

The Devil is very smart and very cunning and very deceptive. Jesus defined Him as the "Father of Lies", becasue He invented the Lie, and His people use them, cleverly.
This is why they are capable of deceving Real Christians, easily.

The Thing about the Devil's ministers, is that the often "sound true"....and that is their power of deception.
So what they do, is they mix together some truth and some false, and this is very deceptive because it tends to sound true.

And example.....they will all agree that Jesus is the Savior, and then they will try to prove that being saved by Jesus has nothing to do with Faith or imputed righteousness.......but has everything to do with trying to perform for God to be accepted by God and kept by God.
They have no use for the "GIFT of Salvation" but can talk all day and all night about "doing righteousness" and "enduring" and "commandment keeping", and "works".

 

[ProDeo]

I simply told you that not everything that would claim to be a Christian is a real one.

The Devil is very smart and very cunning and very deceptive. Jesus defined Him as the "Father of Lies", becasue He invented the Lie, and His people use them, cleverly.
This is why they are capable of deceving Real Christians, easily.

The Thing about the Devil's ministers, is that the often "sound true"....and that is their power of deception.
So what they do, is they mix together some truth and some false, and this is very deceptive because it tends to sound true.

I know all that and I think you know that I know all that.

And example.....they will all agree that Jesus is the Savior, and then they will try to prove that being saved by Jesus has nothing to do with Faith or imputed righteousness.......but has everything to do with trying to perform for God to be accepted by God and kept by God.
They have no use for the "GIFT of Salvation" but can talk all day and all night about "doing righteousness" and "enduring" and "commandment keeping", and "works".

Without Christ (Eph 2:8-9) our works (Mosaic Law) are nothing, won't save us. With Christ (Eph 2:10) and saved by Grace we are supposed to walk the walk God stipulated for us. If we don't there is a problem to be solved. I assume your life changed since you came to Christ.

 

[Behold]

If we don't there is a problem to be solved. I assume your life changed since you came to Christ.

""""Present your body as a living sacrifice to God, which is your reasonable SERVICE"""..... Paul teaches us.

So, a Christian, lives for the Lord, they submit their will and their lives to God......as their : Service to God.
This is not their Salvation.......its their Discipleship.

Heretics try to prove that Discipleship or our works......are what God accepts to accept us, or they are what make us righteous.... and that is a False Gospel and its proof the person has no real faith in Christ.
It can be that this self righteous and deceived person is a Christian, but it can be that they are not.
Ither way they are proven to be a Heretic by their own words and theology.