Proof there is only a single Day of Judgment at the end of the world on the Day appointed and that Judge is Christ
- Thread starter Scott Downey
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Those who actually READ and STUDY God's Word for themselves take me seriously. It's only because of the childish raves that children like you put on with your little opie acts is the reason those who understand what I post don't respond that much. But your darts from the devil don't scare me, and the devil is who you are allowing to work through you against me when I post from God's Word as written.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Problem with what you are suggesting is that isn't how those Scriptures actually read, because you are instead putting a false Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory on those Scriptures that does not exist.
Timelines - the way timelines in God's written Word works, is that His Word can change between past-present-and future very quickly in Bible Scripture, even sometimes within a single verse. So the Bible student must... learn to 'rightly divide' His Word, which Apostle Paul admonished those in Christ to do. HOW... do we do that rightly dividing though?
To rightly divide, we MUST get a FULL PICTURE of the events being covered with the timeline. In the case of Revelation 4 & 5 about the 24 elders, already rewarded with their crowns, etc., there exists OTHER Bible Scripture about when Jesus hands out His rewards to His saints that involves that (like Matthew 16:27; Rev.11:18; Rev.22:12, etc.). Those Scriptures point to only at Jesus' future return does He hand out His rewards to His saints. So the 24 elders description in Rev.4 & 5 is definitely NOT a separate Judgment time for the saints, even though the Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly teaches that it is. Instead, that Rev.4 & 5 view about the 24 elders in Heaven is a FUTURE-FORWARD VIEW for after Jesus' future 2nd coming.
Isaiah 24
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
v23 is after the FIRST earth and FIRST heaven have passed away, I will let you decide what that means, but it is changed completely from what it was, it is NEW.
Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
The sun not shining, 'ashamed', not giving it's light. Occurs with the New earth in the New Holy Jerusalem city of God, on the New earth, not on this first earth as this first earth has passed away, and there is no more need of the sun to shine.
Revelation 22:5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
Where is Zion today? it is in heaven with God, God told us He would dwell forever in Zion, which is where He desires to dwell.
Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [a]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Psalm 132:13
For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place:
Psalm 135:21
Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem! Praise the Lord!
Isaiah 8:18
Here am I and the children whom the Lord has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the Lord of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
The New testament makes it clear, Mount Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem, not a 'FIRST' earthly place, it is currently in heaven with God.
And it will descend out of heaven onto the NEW Earth, after the FIRST earth passes away, and it is from there that the Lord will reign.
None of this happens on the FIRST earth as in a 1000 year reign of Christ on the First earth, which still contains evil people, the wicked who are in rebellion against God and Christ.
Mak 13, Christ says the sun will be darkened at His return, and He gathers His people to Himself.
Then comes the passing of the First earth and the white throne judgment of Rev 20, the Father has given ALL judgement to the Son, the Father judges no one. There is no 1000 years delay of time between the resurrection and the judgment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are not 2 final judgements of all people, just one, and all by Christ.
Jesus ties the resurrection of all and the judgement together
There is no 1000 years delay of time between the resurrection and the judgment, as BOTH occur on the Last Day, just as Jesus said.
You cannot have the saints resurrected, reign 1000 years on the FIRST earth, and afterwards comes the judgment.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
John 5
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
v23 is after the FIRST earth and FIRST heaven have passed away, I will let you decide what that means, but it is changed completely from what it was, it is NEW.
Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
The sun not shining, 'ashamed', not giving it's light. Occurs with the New earth in the New Holy Jerusalem city of God, on the New earth, not on this first earth as this first earth has passed away, and there is no more need of the sun to shine.
Revelation 22:5 There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
Where is Zion today? it is in heaven with God, God told us He would dwell forever in Zion, which is where He desires to dwell.
Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [a]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Psalm 132:13
For the Lord has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His dwelling place:
Psalm 135:21
Blessed be the Lord out of Zion, Who dwells in Jerusalem! Praise the Lord!
Isaiah 8:18
Here am I and the children whom the Lord has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the Lord of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
The New testament makes it clear, Mount Zion is the heavenly Jerusalem, not a 'FIRST' earthly place, it is currently in heaven with God.
And it will descend out of heaven onto the NEW Earth, after the FIRST earth passes away, and it is from there that the Lord will reign.
None of this happens on the FIRST earth as in a 1000 year reign of Christ on the First earth, which still contains evil people, the wicked who are in rebellion against God and Christ.
Mak 13, Christ says the sun will be darkened at His return, and He gathers His people to Himself.
Then comes the passing of the First earth and the white throne judgment of Rev 20, the Father has given ALL judgement to the Son, the Father judges no one. There is no 1000 years delay of time between the resurrection and the judgment.
The Coming of the Son of Man
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His [h]elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are not 2 final judgements of all people, just one, and all by Christ.
Jesus ties the resurrection of all and the judgement together
There is no 1000 years delay of time between the resurrection and the judgment, as BOTH occur on the Last Day, just as Jesus said.
You cannot have the saints resurrected, reign 1000 years on the FIRST earth, and afterwards comes the judgment.
John 6:39
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
John 12:48
He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
John 5
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Life and Judgment Are Through the Son
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
The destruction of the First Earth is shown in the OT from the prophet Isaiah and the creation of the New Earth
Isaiah 24
New King James Version
Impending Judgment on the Earth
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty[a] people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes,
All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases,
The noise of the jubilant ends,
The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song;
Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down;
Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets,
All joy is darkened,
The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left,
And the gate is stricken with destruction.
13 When it shall be thus in the midst of the land among the people,
It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,
Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing;
For the majesty of the Lord
They shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Therefore glorify the Lord in the dawning light,
The name of the Lord God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea.
16 From the ends of the earth we have heard songs:
“Glory to the righteous!”
But I said, [c]“I am ruined, ruined!
Woe to me!
The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.”
17 Fear and the pit and the snare
Are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be [d]caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 66
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This here is hell and the lake of fire at the end
The end back then was many days away.
Today the end is closer.
Before the final Lake of Fire, Hell awaits the wicked and unbelieving. Described as a PIT and PRISON to await the final judgment.
Just like the angels who sinned, people are also imprisoned in hell to await the day of judgment.
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 24
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
Isaiah 24
New King James Version
Impending Judgment on the Earth
1 Behold, the Lord makes the earth empty and makes it waste,
Distorts its surface
And scatters abroad its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be:
As with the people, so with the priest;
As with the servant, so with his master;
As with the maid, so with her mistress;
As with the buyer, so with the seller;
As with the lender, so with the borrower;
As with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The land shall be entirely emptied and utterly plundered,
For the Lord has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and fades away,
The world languishes and fades away;
The haughty[a] people of the earth languish.
5 The earth is also defiled under its inhabitants,
Because they have transgressed the laws,
Changed the ordinance,
Broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore the curse has devoured the earth,
And those who dwell in it are desolate.
Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned,
And few men are left.
7 The new wine fails, the vine languishes,
All the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourine ceases,
The noise of the jubilant ends,
The joy of the harp ceases.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song;
Strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down;
Every house is shut up, so that none may go in.
11 There is a cry for wine in the streets,
All joy is darkened,
The mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city desolation is left,
And the gate is stricken with destruction.
13 When it shall be thus in the midst of the land among the people,
It shall be like the shaking of an olive tree,
Like the gleaning of grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing;
For the majesty of the Lord
They shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Therefore glorify the Lord in the dawning light,
The name of the Lord God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea.
16 From the ends of the earth we have heard songs:
“Glory to the righteous!”
But I said, [c]“I am ruined, ruined!
Woe to me!
The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously,
Indeed, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.”
17 Fear and the pit and the snare
Are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall be
That he who flees from the noise of the fear
Shall fall into the pit,
And he who comes up from the midst of the pit
Shall be [d]caught in the snare;
For the windows from on high are open,
And the foundations of the earth are shaken.
19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel[e] to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the Lord of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 66
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This here is hell and the lake of fire at the end
The end back then was many days away.
Today the end is closer.
Before the final Lake of Fire, Hell awaits the wicked and unbelieving. Described as a PIT and PRISON to await the final judgment.
Just like the angels who sinned, people are also imprisoned in hell to await the day of judgment.
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isaiah 24
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the [f]pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
Isaiah 66
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revelation 14
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An interesting link is here!
That in Isaiah 66, the righteous will come to worship before GOD,
And they shall go forth and look and see the wicked in torments.
There will be reminder to all the righteous of the fate of those who transgressed and rebelled against the Lord.
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 “And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Revelation 14
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12 Here is the [g]patience of the saints; here[h] are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
An interesting link is here!
That in Isaiah 66, the righteous will come to worship before GOD,
And they shall go forth and look and see the wicked in torments.
There will be reminder to all the righteous of the fate of those who transgressed and rebelled against the Lord.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, they do not. Trust me. Everyone here can see how unhinged you are and not worth taking seriously with your incessant nonsense.
- Jul 11, 2015
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Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. This is a judgment and resurrection of only the saved. The unsaved are judged at a later time and at a later resurrection: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" so clearly AFTER the Millennium is when these are resurrected and judged.
Another example of the righteous being judged separately from the wicked:
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Christ does not address time in this but according to Rev 20, there is a period of time inbetween the judgment of the dead in Christ vs. the rest of the dead so we know there is time inbetween these two judgments. Even in human courts there is no such concept of judging someone a reward while judging someone to death. That happens at different times. The two don't belong in one court judgment.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
As you can see, the righteous are judged FIRST. Judgment starts with "us" as Peter confirms.
Before the thousand years even begins, there are thrones and judgment is given to those sitting on the thrones. Then we are introduced to a group of dead Christian martyrs who come back to life. This is a judgment and resurrection of only the saved. The unsaved are judged at a later time and at a later resurrection: "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" so clearly AFTER the Millennium is when these are resurrected and judged.
Another example of the righteous being judged separately from the wicked:
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Christ does not address time in this but according to Rev 20, there is a period of time inbetween the judgment of the dead in Christ vs. the rest of the dead so we know there is time inbetween these two judgments. Even in human courts there is no such concept of judging someone a reward while judging someone to death. That happens at different times. The two don't belong in one court judgment.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
As you can see, the righteous are judged FIRST. Judgment starts with "us" as Peter confirms.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sure they died, but they were spiritually alive even after their physical death. All this tells you is they went to heaven to be with Christ, they did not die and go to hell.
Think about your own life, have you
a. Worshipped the beast and image?
b. Received his mark?
c. died as a Martyr for Christ?
Where do the dead in the Lord go when they die?
They go to be with Christ who is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 9:25
And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown.
2 Timothy 4:8
Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.
1 Peter 5:4
and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
Where do believers go at death of the body?
2 Cor 5
For we know that if our earthly [a]house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as [c]a guarantee.
6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
"Here we again have judgment of the righteous first! No wicked are being judged with the righteous."
Your own example of Matthew 25 shows the righteous and the wicked gathered and judged at the same time, with each hearing the others judgment.
You're making up a story not in agreement with the evidence.
Peter is referring to our judgment as the house of God is ongoing even today. We get corrected by the Lord in this life, and the life to come. While the wicked and unbelieving do not have a Great Shepherd of the sheep guiding and correcting them
Believers are kings and priests unto God as a current reality, not just a future reality.
'has made us', not will make us.
Kings have crowns.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
Ephesians 2:6-8
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God
When Christ does come again we will appear with Him in glory, so yes our glorification is still future too.
Revelation 1
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who [b]loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us [c]kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
'has made us', not will make us.
Kings have crowns.
Revelation 3:11
Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.
Ephesians 2:6-8
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God
When Christ does come again we will appear with Him in glory, so yes our glorification is still future too.
Revelation 1
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who [b]loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us [c]kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, [d]the Beginning and the End,” says the [e]Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
In no way, shape or form did Jesus indicate that the goats (unsaved) would be judged a thousand plus years after the sheep. They are all gathered before Him at the same time. What do you think, that the unsaved will just have to stand there for 1,000+ years waiting to be judged? LOL. Your treatment of Matthew 25:31-46 is utterly ridiculous. It's also ludicrous to think that judgment will happen in real-time rather than in eternity. Do you actually think Jesus will judge every person one by one in real time? We're talking billions of people here. You may think you're making a convincing argument here, but it is far from that.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Right. Premils do not understand the authority that we Christ followers have right now. We ARE a royal priesthood right now (1 Peter 2:9). We have been made "kings and priests to His God and Father" now. Premils put off until some time in the future what is already true now and has been true since the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Sure those who truly want to know what God's Word teaches take me seriously. YOU would like it to be otherwise, but The LORD is NOT going to listen to someone like you who mocks His Word.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
They absolutely do not. There are plenty of people here who truly want to know what God's word teaches even if they don't currently understand. Name one person here who takes you seriously. Good luck.
I mock your comments about His Word. I would never mock His Word, liar.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Those who want to know what Gods word teaches should take Jesus seriously.
Do you accept the teaching of Jesus as written regarding what he will do when he comes again with his Angels?
No, you do not.
Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.
Matt 25
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].
34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons)
Lk 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
34 “But be on guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down and depressed with the giddiness of debauchery and the nausea of self-indulgence and the worldly worries of life, and then that day [when the Messiah returns] will not come on you suddenly like a trap; 35 for it will come upon all those who live on the face of all the earth.
36 But keep alert at all times [be attentive and ready], praying that you may have the strength and ability [to be found worthy and] to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man [at His coming].”
Davy
Well-Known Member
Which is exactly... what I do. Those who tend to disagree are usually those whom I have to point out that are twisting... Lord Jesus' Words to suit some stupid doctrine of men.
Of course I accept what Jesus said when He returns at His 2nd coming, AS WRITTEN. You should try it sometime, you might discover the loading down of all those fake doctrines from men that you've latched onto was preventing you from actually listening to what Jesus Himself said.
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They hear both but the passage is clear the righteous are judged first. All passages dealing with judgment show the righteous are judged first including Rev 20 and Matthew 25 etc.
Davy
Well-Known Member
And 1 Peter 4:17 ...
1 Peter 4:17-19
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
KJV
Davy
Well-Known Member
By that you also show your Biblical ignorance of the future-perfect tense written in many Bible prophecies.
The future-perfect tense is like a declaration that a prophecy has already been fulfilled when it has not yet been fulfilled, but is still to be fulfilled sometime in the future.
The 24 elders of Revelation 4 and 5 with their crowns already is written in that sense, when that has not actually happened yet, because no one receives their crowns from Christ until the actual future day of His return. That is when God's Word shows the rewards are handed out to His saints, and not before.
Those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory have one of the biggest problems in that area, because they believe the 24 elders of Revelation have already received their crowns in Heaven, and are sitting upon their 24 seats reigning with Christ from Heaven. And thus Pre-trib also wrongly believes by that time of Revelation 4, the rapture of the saints has already happened, when it has not.
Instead, that Rev.4 & 5 view of the 24 elders in Heaven around the throne with their crowns of gold is for AFTER Christ's future 2nd coming. It is a future-forward view.
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