The Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)

[GodsGrace]

@David in NJ

Do you recognize the danger of standing against the Master’s teaching? If you fail to see both the rebuke of their doctrines and the authority of their position, you miss the very context and meaning of his instruction.

Hidden
Maybe YOU are standing against the Masters teaching!

It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that YOU have the truth and the other member does not.

The Christian religion, I say religion, teaches that MOST PROBABLY the lazarus story is based on reality.
The Christian religion teaches that at the moment of Jesus' death, the gate to heaven was opened,
and those waiting gained entrance.

And, the Christian religion teaches that man is made of body, soul and sprit.
When we die our body goes into the ground...
our soul and spirit go to be with God.

You can believe whatever you want to believe...
but it does not give you the right to state facts in an authoratative manner.

Those that DO have authority,,,,have already established WHAT the tenets are of the Christian religion.

We could discuss whether or not we agree with any doctrine...
but we cannot change what the Christian religion teaches.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Hidden
Maybe YOU are standing against the Masters teaching!

It's rather presumptuous of you to assume that YOU have the truth and the other member does not.

The Christian religion, I say religion, teaches that MOST PROBABLY the lazarus story is based on reality.
The Christian religion teaches that at the moment of Jesus' death, the gate to heaven was opened,
and those waiting gained entrance.

And, the Christian religion teaches that man is made of body, soul and sprit.
When we die our body goes into the ground...
our soul and spirit go to be with God.

You can believe whatever you want to believe...
but it does not give you the right to state facts in an authoratative manner.

Those that DO have authority,,,,have already established WHAT the tenets are of the Christian religion.

We could discuss whether or not we agree with any doctrine...
but we cannot change what the Christian religion teaches.

What if you’re actually on the wrong side of truth? Most people recognize it as a parable, cleverly crafted with intention. It’s the extremes within the story that lead to Jesus’ sharp rebuke of the rich man.

For many Christians, this is the only story they lean on to support their view of life after death, yet it looks nothing like the prophetic visions of the Kingdom age described in Scripture.

Furthermore, if you go back and examine the arguments for taking it as a literal reality, you’ll find that not one person has been able to present a clear or coherent explanation.

Why is that?

 

[Hiddenthings]

I have much more then most

Maybe you hide it under a bushel? I'm yet to see anything of substance concerning your belief in this Parable.

 

[Exegesis]

Hidden
Maybe YOU are standing against the Masters teaching!

There is no maybe to it. OP is incapable of correcting his erroneous dogma. It's not even worth it to help him see. His consciousness is seared. His pride and hubris are to powerful to overcome. These types are dime a dozen.

Anyhow, for those interested in a deeper understanding of this topic, much has been learned over the last few decades. Incredible progress has been made. We don't have to guess at this stuff anymore.

The Throne Room in Revelation *IS* Abraham's Bosom. It is Paradise where Jesus went after the Crucifixion...

Luke 23:43 - "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

The Lamb is going to lead them out of Abraham's Bosom and into the Gates of New Jerusalem...

Revelation 7:17 - "For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

It has yet to be emptied out. The Redeemed still go there upon death.

The Throne/Heart surrounded by Twenty Four Elders/Ribs, etc., etc., etc. So simple to understand, a caveman can figure this stuff out...

​

The Kingdom of God is within. OP was supposed to seek it first but skipped that part.

Matthew 6:33 - "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

Later.

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe you hide it under a bushel? I'm yet to see anything of substance concerning your belief in this Parable.

Simple as 1,2,3

#1 - JESUS gave the factual account of three individuals and HE identified two of them by their factual, God-given, names.

#2 - JESUS did not signify nor indicate that HE was speaking a parable.

#3 - No interpretation was given nor did the disciples ask for one.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Simple as 1,2,3

#1 - JESUS gave the factual account of three individuals and HE identified two of them by their factual, God-given, names.

Do you know why the names were important in this parable?

#2 - JESUS did not signify nor indicate that HE was speaking a parable.

Nor did the previous and I know you believe that to be a parable also

#3 - No interpretation was given nor did the disciples ask for one.

No need the lessons were very obvious - pointed in fact!

 

[Hiddenthings]

@David in NJ

It’s remarkable how even sincere believers like David can end up deceiving themselves with arguments that carry no real weight.

Take points #2 and #3

Both parables open in exactly the same way, and in both cases the disciples did not ask for an interpretation.

However, David believes the unjust steward is a Parable.

Both points immediately fail, however will David acknowledge these facts?

These moments serve as a test of character, revealing whether David can demonstrate the honesty and integrity expected of one who professes to be a disciple of Christ.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I didn't expect anything more @David in NJ

 

[Bladerunner]

So' Im gonna be the only one in Hell?

according to God's word in several places and I gave just a few, there will be no parties, nor will those in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone see any one there. They will be in their own place all by them selves.

 

[Hiddenthings]

according to God's word in several places and I gave just a few, there will be no parties, nor will those in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone see any one there. They will be in their own place all by them selves.

True, its called the grave!

 

[Bladerunner]

True, its called the grave!

No, one will be in their grave at this time, the body will be destroyed completely and the soul will wind up in their own place all be themselves. scarry no?

 

[David in NJ]

I didn't expect anything more @David in NJ

If you would study and pray earnestly then wait on the Lord you will gain understanding.

 

[Jack]

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER ...

 

[Jack]

according to God's word in several places and I gave just a few, there will be no parties, nor will those in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone see any one there. They will be in their own place all by them selves.

Quoting you: "No body but you will be there"!

Why would I be in Hell?

 

[Hiddenthings]

If you would study and pray earnestly then wait on the Lord you will gain understanding.

So 2 of your 3 points were laid down - put out of their misery what about #1?

Why was this parable requiring Abraham to be its focus?

 

[Hiddenthings]

No, one will be in their grave at this time, the body will be destroyed completely and the soul will wind up in their own place all be themselves. scarry no?

All will end up in the grave who are considered unworthy to enter the gates.

Who are outside?

 

[Jack]

So 2 of your 3 points were laid down - put out of their misery what about #1?

Why was this parable requiring Abraham to be its focus?

Parables do not use literal Biblical people! Abraham, Moses, Lazarus ... absolutely literal! The rich man died but was VERY much alive in the fire CRYING! Totally in agreement with other warnings by Jesus of THE FIRE!

 

[David in NJ]

So 2 of your 3 points were laid down - put out of their misery what about #1?

Why was this parable requiring Abraham to be its focus?

Why was this parable requiring Abraham to be its focus?

Very good question!!!

You will find the answer in Genesis, which is 'Beginnings' in Hebrew

Good Night

 

[Hiddenthings]

The imagery of the “lake of fire” in Revelation (Rev. 20:14) is explained as the “second death,” not eternal torment. The word tormented (Gr. basanizo) originally described a testing process, such as rubbing a coin on a black stone to verify its authenticity, or checking calculations in finance. Over time, it came to mean any form of testing, and eventually even torture. Thus, the idea points to judgment with painful consequences. However, when Scripture speaks of the wicked being “tormented… for ever,” it is best understood as “tormented and then destroyed, with the effect being eternal.” Just as the continual burnt offering was said to be “throughout your generations” but did not literally last forever (Exo. 29:38–42; Dan. 12:11), so too the fire of judgment is not endless. The consistent witness of Scripture is that the fate of the wicked is death and destruction not eternal conscious torment (cf. Psa. 104:35; 145:20; Pro. 10:30; 11:31; Job 20:7–8; Eze. 18:4; Rom. 6:23; 2Th. 1:9).

@St. SteVen Notice how Scripture often uses strong, exaggerated language to emphasize importance or warning. Only the foolish try to force man-made notions onto these passages, so far from the true meaning that they may as well be monks chanting to Buddha.

It's sad they have not the spiritual skills to interpret the symbol.

 

[Jack]

Hell will be filled with BILLIONS of humans who don't believe in Hell!