BEWARE OF THE DOCTRINE OF FULL PRETERISM

[Scott Downey]

Revelation 21
New King James Version

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

All the wicked are gone into the eternal fires, and they will not be getting out again.

 

[HealthyShape]

Matthew 24:30
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

ALL will see Him coming. Jesus also says it.
His return is visible to every tribe of people on the earth.
It is a time of mourning for them as it means their certain destruction.
Cause He takes His people up into the air, then He burns the earth with fire, and they who are left behind will all die.

It happened. You are just reading prophetic language too literally. Every tribe of the land (Judea) does not mean some tribe in the Amazonian jungle, but Jewish tribes.

We can find a similar expression in Zech. 12:12:
"All the families [tribes] of the land" where its restricted sense is obvious and undisputed. The two passages are in fact exactly parallel, and nothing could be more misleading than to understand the phrase as including "all the races of the earth."
Russell, The Parousia

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Only few people saw Jesus ascending to heaven, right? It was basically a private event.

So, what "bingo!" do you think you won with this verse?

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” (Rev 1:7, KJV)

 

[Davy]

You though deny at the return of Christ the destruction of the ungodly who will go to perdition at that Day of Christ's returning.

God's Word shows that NOT ALL of the UNSAVED are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return. Zechariah 14:16 forward is not... the only Scripture that reveals that fact.

Here is a unique situation Apostle Paul had to handle among the Church at Corinth when one of its members there was having sexual intercourse with his own mother...

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Paul told them to cast that member out of the Church there.

What's that part in red above mean? The type body of the world to come AFTER Jesus returns is the 'spirit' body. And that "day of the Lord Jesus" is about Christ's future "thousand years" reign WRITTEN in Revelation 20. Paul is saying to cast that one out of the Church for this present world, so that maybe he can be SAVED during Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. It is another Bible proof that Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 will be a LITERAL PERIOD. And the fact that Paul says, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that means that one cast out at Corinth is UNSAVED going into Christ's "thousand years" reign.

Likewise, Jesus gave the example of those of Matthew 7 which when He returns, will go up to Him and say, "Lord, Lord...", claiming to have cast out devils in His Name, and done many wonderful works in His Name, but Jesus will tell those to depart from Him, that He never knew them, those that work iniquity. Those are unsaved going into Christ's "thousand years" reign also.

Then there's those of Revelation 3:9 of the "synagogue of Satan" that Lord Jesus said He will make come worship at the feet of His elect, so they know that Jesus loves His elect. That has NEVER... happened during this present world and never will for this present world. That ONLY will happen AFTER Jesus' future return when He takes reign over all nations and all peoples. There will still be whole nations of the UNSAVED in that future "thousand years", as written in the Old Testament prophets, and in Revelation 20.

Then there's this, which reveals a specific timing after Christ's future return...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

That "For without are..." phrase acts as a conjunction back to the subject of the previous verse. Verse 14 is about Christ's elect who reign with Him having right to enter the gates of the holy city (new Jerusalem), and have right to the Tree of Life that is there on earth at that time. That timing is obviously for AFTER CHRIST HAS RETURNED.

But 'without are'... meaning outside the gates of the city are... the WICKED AND UNSAVED.

Thus there's plenty of Bible Scripture proof that not all the wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return.

 

[HealthyShape]

“Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.” (Rev 1:7, KJV)

But this is not the "bingo" verse you mentioned before.

Regarding this verse, "all tribes of the land" means all the Jewish tribes in Judea. It has nothing to do with some modern planetary worldview like "even Amazonian jungle tribes had to see it".

 

[Michiah-Imla]

But this is not the "bingo" verse you mentioned before.

If you cannot see how it relates to the other verse I cannot help you.

Blindness seems to be an issue on your part.

 

[Scott Downey]

God's Word shows that NOT ALL of the UNSAVED are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return. Zechariah 14:16 forward is not... the only Scripture that reveals that fact.

Here is a unique situation Apostle Paul had to handle among the Church at Corinth when one of its members there was having sexual intercourse with his own mother...

1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Paul told them to cast that member out of the Church there.

What's that part in red above mean? The type body of the world to come AFTER Jesus returns is the 'spirit' body. And that "day of the Lord Jesus" is about Christ's future "thousand years" reign WRITTEN in Revelation 20. Paul is saying to cast that one out of the Church for this present world, so that maybe he can be SAVED during Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. It is another Bible proof that Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20 will be a LITERAL PERIOD. And the fact that Paul says, "that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus," that means that one cast out at Corinth is UNSAVED going into Christ's "thousand years" reign.

Likewise, Jesus gave the example of those of Matthew 7 which when He returns, will go up to Him and say, "Lord, Lord...", claiming to have cast out devils in His Name, and done many wonderful works in His Name, but Jesus will tell those to depart from Him, that He never knew them, those that work iniquity. Those are unsaved going into Christ's "thousand years" reign also.

Then there's those of Revelation 3:9 of the "synagogue of Satan" that Lord Jesus said He will make come worship at the feet of His elect, so they know that Jesus loves His elect. That has NEVER... happened during this present world and never will for this present world. That ONLY will happen AFTER Jesus' future return when He takes reign over all nations and all peoples. There will still be whole nations of the UNSAVED in that future "thousand years", as written in the Old Testament prophets, and in Revelation 20.

Then there's this, which reveals a specific timing after Christ's future return...

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

That "For without are..." phrase acts as a conjunction back to the subject of the previous verse. Verse 14 is about Christ's elect who reign with Him having right to enter the gates of the holy city (new Jerusalem), and have right to the Tree of Life that is there on earth at that time. That timing is obviously for AFTER CHRIST HAS RETURNED.

But 'without are'... meaning outside the gates of the city are... the WICKED AND UNSAVED.

Thus there's plenty of Bible Scripture proof that not all the wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return.

All of them are destroyed in a sudden destruction
Malachi 4v1 "ALL"

There is no scripture that says otherwise.
All the dogs etc..., are outside the city of God, where they are in the Lake of Fire

Rev 22:14 shows they still exist in the fire.

14 Blessed are those who [g]do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 [h]But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Rev 21 even tells us where they are
8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

You have distorted the scriptures, something you accuse many others of doing, and you are doing the same things.
See you cannot except the word of God as written, you change it.
That you cannot admit it shows your doctrine holds you captive in your pride.

​

Malachi 4​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

The Great Day of God​

1 “For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But to you who fear My name
The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
With healing in His wings;
And you shall go out
And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,”
Says the Lord of hosts.
4 “Remember the Law of Moses, My servant,
Which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel,
With the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
6 And he will turn
The hearts of the fathers to the children,
And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The proud, and wicked as ASHES under the feet of the righteous, proves there are no such people left alive to walk on the earth after the Day of Christ

I am not attacking you, just your doctrine, cause I hope you can begin to see the truth here.

 

[HealthyShape]

If you cannot see how it relates to the other verse I cannot help you.

Blindness seems to be an issue on your part.

Ah, vague statements helping you to leave the conversation and to keep a higher moral ground ("you are the one who is blind!", "I cannot help you!"). Classic.

 

[Davy]

All of them are destroyed in a sudden destruction
Malachi 4v1 "ALL"

There is no scripture that says otherwise.

I've already given enough Bible Scripture proof that shows NOT ALL the wicked and unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return. Your continuing to deny that only makes you look all the more foolish.

 

[Scott Downey]

I've already given enough Bible Scripture proof that shows NOT ALL the wicked and unsaved are destroyed on the day of Christ's future return. Your continuing to deny that only makes you look all the more foolish.

It is on you, I keep pointing out that error, yet you continue to reject the scriptures, as written.
Question is why?
Others see this too, we are not in a vacuum here.

Your just like those who say Christ returned in 70AD, completely stuck in a false paradigm.

The "false paradigm" refers to a model or framework that misrepresents reality