Can any of you link or share a good argument against FULL preterism?

[claninja]

My understanding comes from knowing with blessed assurance that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

This statement seems a little ironic. I can’t find serious scholarship nor theological commentary that agrees with your position on how genea is defined/used in the context of Matthew 24:34. It seems it might be your own private interpretation?

Your unbiblical doctrine screams for us to believe you when you tell us the holy men of God who authored the written Word of God could not understand what they wrote because they lived in ancient times.

Strawman. You’ve mischaracterized my argument.

It is highly unlikely the authors and editors of the OT understood modern cosmology - earth as a sphere, orbiting a sun, not the center of the universe, etc….. The biblical evidence supports the idea that they held to an ANE cosmology - firmament, circle of the earth, pillars of the earth, waters below and above, sheol, etc….

Recognizing that the authors described creation through the lens of their own cosmology does not diminish divine inspiration or the truth of Scripture — it simply respects the historical and cultural context in which God chose to reveal His message. The meaning and theological lessons remain unchanged regardless of cosmological view. Unless of course, ignoring the historical setting, cultural context, and audience relevance are required to support a specific eschatological framework…

You have very little knowledge and comprehension of what is written, because God does not give mankind a message that must be massaged according to the period of time in which we live.

True Word of God into a lie to support your lying doctrines.

Ad hominem. A solid argument should not need personal attacks.

 

[claninja]

Yes the New Testament scripture is what I’m asking for.


Please show me in the New Testament where Jesus went and fought against those who came against Jerusalem?



Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

The author of Luke/Acts presents that the OT scriptures - Law of Moses, psalms, AND PROPHETS - find their fulfillment in:

1.) The destruction of Jerusalem in the first century
Luke 21:22 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

2.) The ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ in the first century
Luke 24:44 44Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

3.) The days of the apostles in the first century
Acts 3:24 24And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.


I would ask, Can you provide any clear and explicit NT passages that state the fulfillment of the OT scriptures are to be found beyond the first century?

 

[JLB]

Maybe the nations that the Lord fights against are Sodom and Egypt.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

‘The point being this has not yet happened.


This happen on the Day of the Lord when the Lord returns from heaven with His saints and defends Jerusalem against those who came against her.


Unlike the events of 70 AD.

 

[JLB]

The author of Luke/Acts presents that the OT scriptures - Law of Moses, psalms, AND PROPHETS - find their fulfillment in:

1.) The destruction of Jerusalem in the first century
Luke 21:22 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

2.) The ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ in the first century
Luke 24:44 44Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

3.) The days of the apostles in the first century
Acts 3:24 24And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.


I would ask, Can you provide any clear and explicit NT passages that state the fulfillment of the OT scriptures are to be found beyond the first century?

Yes.


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:19

 

[claninja]

Yes.


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15



“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:19

None of these examples state the OT scriptures would find fulfillment beyond the first century.

 

[JLB]

None of these examples state the OT scriptures would find fulfillment beyond the first century.

Here is they Old Testament prophecy.


“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10


Here is Jesus teaching about this fulfillment at His return on the Day of the Lord, which has yet to happen.


“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31


The Jews have not seen Jesus at His coming because Jesus has not returned.



Now it’s time for you to answer my question.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

 

[HealthyShape]

Yes the New Testament scripture is what I’m asking for.


Please show me in the New Testament where Jesus went and fought against those who came against Jerusalem?



Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city?

Already answered. Also, if you check the Zech 14 prophecy in various translations and textual versions, it may mean different things.

For example:
"All holy ones [are] with You."
Literal Standard Version

Because of the ambiguity of the Old Testament prophecies, it is always best to go with the New Testament and with the words of Jesus and of the apostles. Either they explained the prophecy correctly or the prophecy was not about the events they taught about (and therefore are not relevant for Christians).

So, I am offering three options:
a) Zech 14 was fulfilled with the 1st century events and your textual version and translation simply is not the right one
b) Zech 14 was not about the 1st century events but happened before, in some other attack on Jerusalem (there were plenty before 70 AD)
c) Zech 14 was about some third coming of Jesus, but this is not being taught in the New Testament at all, so these are really wild waters

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He was childish criticizing assuming while he also assumes everything, I was childish overplaying the irony of it and you were childish joining it.

LOL. I was childish for being the adult who pointed out your childishness? Okay, sure.

The book mentions important cities several times, including Jerusalem. For example:

"...the great city where their Lord was crucified"
Revelation 11:8

That isn't talking about Jerusalem, as you probably think. Jesus was not crucified in Jerusalem.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might [a]sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

The great city Babylon is not an earthly city and is the spiritual opposite of the heavenly new Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Mt 16:26-27

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they see the kingdom of God having come in power. "
Mk 9:1

"there are some of those standing here, who in no wise shall taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of God. "
Lk 9:26-27

You seem to misinterpret every verse you read. You really need to ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7). If you continue reading from there you will see a description of Christ's transfiguration. That is what He was referring to when He said some there would not taste death before seeing the kingdom of God come in power. He gave Peter, James and John a glimpse of His future glorious second coming when He comes with His angels at His transfiguration when He appeared to them in all His glory like He will when He comes in the future with His angels. That is what Jesus was talking about in that passage. He certainly was not talking about what happened in 70 AD there.

"Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
Mt 10:23

"Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
Mt 24:34

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. This generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. "
Mk 13:30

The Greek word translated as "this" in those verses is "houtos" and it can also mean "the same". That's how it is used here...

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same (Greek: houtos) shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So, with this in mind, the way the verses you quoted should be understood is that Jesus was saying "this same generation" that would see the things that would indicate that His second coming was near, will not pass until all those things are fulfilled. You assume He was talking about "this generation" in terms of the generation they were in at that time, but that is not the case. All these things that He mentioned would have included the gathering of the elect which did not happen in 70 AD. And His second coming did not happen then, either. His second coming will be when He comes in like manner as He ascended to heaven, which was visibly and bodily. That has not yet happened.

"I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven"
Mt 26:64 (Jesus to Sanhedrin)

That is a reference to His ascension to the right hand of the Father and has nothing to do with His second coming. You are taking all of these verses out of context.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
J 14:3 (Jesus to His apostles)

How do you think this verse supports your view? He has not yet come back. He will come in the future to gather us to Him in the air and then we will be with Him forever ( 1 Thess 4:14-17). That has obviously not yet occurred.

"But this is that having been spoken by the prophet Joel: 'And it will be in the last days...the sun will be darkened, moon into blood, blood, fire, vapor..."
Act 2:16 - notice the apocalyptic language - used by the same Peter who wrote about heavens ending in fire etc. in his epistle

How does this support your view?

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1 Cor 1:7

"Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come."
1 Cor. 4:5

How do these support your view?

"The time that remains is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not...For this world in its present form is passing away."
1 Cor. 7:29

What else do you expect Paul to say when he also taught that Christ would come unexpectedly as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2-3)? That means no one knows when He is coming, as Jesus Himself indicated multiple times, so everyone from that time on should live as though He could come in their lifetimes. In no way, shape or form was Paul saying that Jesus was coming for sure. He knew that the time remaining is not infinite, so the time is limited.

..the ends of the ages have come.
1Cor 10:11

Paul was not saying that the ends of the ages, or end of the age, had come at that time. Look at the references to the last days in scripture. Peter related the last days both to the day of Pentecost long ago in relation to the time period during which God would pour out His Spirit and people would call on the name of the Lord to be saved and he related it to the time period during which people would scoff at the promise of Christ's coming when the heavens and earth are burned up (2 Peter 3:3-13). You are taking all of these verses out of context. You couldn't do a worse job of interpreting scripture if you tried. You only look at the surface of scripture without taking a closer look to see what it means. Please ask God for wisdom (James 1:5-7).

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed..."
1 Cor. 15:51

"Then we the living who remain shall be caught away together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 The 4:17

"...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. "
1 The 5:23

LOL. These passages definitely don't support your view. How about you actually make an effort an exegete some of these verses instead of just making assumptions about them? You make very little effort to dig deeper to find the real meaning of scripture. That is very clear.

Who was manifest in these last times for you
1 Pt 1:20

The end of all things is at hand.
1 Pt 4:7

It is the last hour
1 John 2:18

"Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord.
The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door."
Jm 5:7-9

But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
Heb 1:2

... encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Heb 10:25

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:1

Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy...because the time is near.
Rev 1:3

"Look, he is coming with the clouds,’ and ‘every eye will see him, even those who pierced him’; and all peoples on earth ‘will mourn because of him.’ So shall it be! Amen.”
Rev 1:7

"God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must come to pass soon."
Rev 22:6

"Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is near."
Rev 22:10

From the Lord's perspective, the time was near back then and still is now because to Him and His eternal perspective, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand year is as a day (2 Peter 3:8). It's just sad that you misinterpret every single one of these verses because you have been brainwashed by false preterist teaching.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The problem is you’re not willing to consider secular information if it goes against your beliefs. You just make the claim that you’re only using what’s written in the Bible. Guess what, the Bible doesn’t say the earth is round, it says the earth has four corners. That’s why the argument that we should always only use the Bible is flawed. We need to use common sense.

The Bible does say that the earth is round.

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That’s quite the dramatic assumption.

It's the truth, dramatic or not.

I’ll rely on peer-reviewed and well-replicated scientific research any day

LOL. Sure, you do. If the peers have no reverence for the word of God, why do you trust them?

over some random internet person’s personal interpretation of scripture that ignores proper hermeneutics, such as grammar, syntax, context, historical setting, audience relevance, as well as ignores the scholarly and theological consensus on definitions and usages of words, just because it doesn’t fit their overall eschatological framework.

You have proven time and time again that you do not understand "proper hermeneutics, such as grammar, syntax, context, historical setting, audience relevance" nearly as well as you think you do. Your interpretation of the parable of the minas is a good example of this. The way you just dismiss the fact that saved people are shown to be rewarded at the same time Christ's enemies are punished reveals how much doctrinal bias influences your interpretations.

That being said:

I think it’s important to recognize that the early authors and editors of the Bible wrote from an Ancient Near Eastern (ANE) cosmological perspective — one that included concepts such as a crystalline dome in the sky, pillars of the earth, waters below, and Sheol. This cosmological framework differs significantly from our modern scientific understanding of the world.

I think it's important for you to recognize that they were inspired by the Holy Spirit who obviously knows the truth about all of these things. You act as if they just wrote entirely using their own intellect and own observations of the world without the aid of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, the account of the flood in the Bible should probably be understood as describing a flood that encompassed the entire cosmological worldview of the ANE, rather than a flood covering the entire globe as we conceive it today.

This is complete nonsense. You are basically saying that the flood in the Bible should be understood from the Ancient Near Eastern perspective of that time. Are you kidding me? Again, you speak as if the authors were not inspired by the Holy Spirit. Your way of thinking is terribly flawed.

From a modern cosmological standpoint, science does not support the occurrence of such a global flood.

Says who? People who don't believe the Bible. You believe secular anti-Bible scientists to tell you what to believe instead of the Bible. It's just sad.

However, “Secular science” does support the possibility of a massive local/regional flood, which is consistent with the ANE cosmological worldview. So when the Bible says the whole earth flooded, it’s from a completely different cosmological view than we hold today.

Nonsense! The Bible is not written from a flawed "Ancient Near Eastern cosmological perspective", it is written from God's perspective because He inspired it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let us stop repeating the nonsense that preterism is something forced into the text because preterists want it to be read that way or that it is a lack of knowledge etc.

Preterism is the neutral reading of the text of the New Testament, without bias and without forcing something we want into the text.

---
Q: If you read the text of the New Testament, without any theological bias and without forcing any personal ideas into the text, what would be the most objective reading of eschatology: futurism, historicism or preterism? Just one sentence answer.

AI
Reading the New Testament textually and without theological presuppositions most objectively supports preterism.

LOL. I can't believe you expect to be taken seriously with this nonsense. Resorting to AI to back up your claims? LOL. Unbelievable.

---

The NT simply teaches that everything will happen in the 1st century generation. We need to deal with it. Some accept it even though they do not see everything to happen in history as they would expect, some try to twist the verses or ignore them and switch to religious dogmatic rant instead.

LOL. So, tell me how the thousand years all happened in the 1st century generation? Tell me how all of the dead are already resurrected. Tell me how Jesus has already come in like manner as He ascended to heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, you have been shown many verses. When your "explaining out" does not work, you quickly switch to posts like this - nothing of substance, just your religious rants.

Says the guy who posts nothing of substance in any of his posts. You quote some scriptures, but do not exegete them and do nothing to show their context, which is useless.

 

[HealthyShape]

LOL. So, tell me how the thousand years all happened in the 1st century generation? Tell me how all of the dead are already resurrected. Tell me how Jesus has already come in like manner as He ascended to heaven.

You are singing still the same song. You do not believe it happened according to your understanding of the text, therefore it did not happen, period.

The problem is that the NT teaches it will all happen in the 1st century generation. That is why preterism even exists. And this clear time frame wins over your ideas how it should look like.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are singing still the same song. You do not believe it happened according to your understanding of the text, therefore it did not happen, period.

How about actually answering my question? Tell me how the thousand years was fulfilled in the first century. I'm fine with not seeing it as a literal thousand years, but how do you figure that it could represent a small amount of time? Tell me how the dead in Christ were all already resurrected in the first century when many of the dead in Christ have died since then and have not yet been resurrected.

The problem is that the NT teaches it will all happen in the 1st century generation.

It absolutely does not. That is what you have either imagined or what you have been brainwashed into believing.

That is why preterism even exists. And this clear time frame wins over your ideas how it should look like.

Preterism is a complete joke. Especially the full preterism that you believe in. It foolishly and shamefully denies the future blessed hope of the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ when He will come with His angels, resurrected the dead in Christ and gather all of us to Himself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The author of Luke/Acts presents that the OT scriptures - Law of Moses, psalms, AND PROPHETS - find their fulfillment in:

1.) The destruction of Jerusalem in the first century
Luke 21:22 22for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.

2.) The ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ in the first century
Luke 24:44 44Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

3.) The days of the apostles in the first century
Acts 3:24 24And all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those who came after him, also proclaimed these days.


I would ask, Can you provide any clear and explicit NT passages that state the fulfillment of the OT scriptures are to be found beyond the first century?

Those are talking about OT scriptures that specifically refer to the Messiah (Jesus, obviously), not all OT scriptures. Why do you act as if those are talking about literally all OT scriptures when Jesus Himself referred to "everything written about me"? He didn't say "everything written". Surely, not all OT prophecies are fulfilled. For example, the dead have not yet been resurrected, but that is written about in the OT. The new heavens and new earth have not yet been ushered in, but that is written about in the OT.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Correction: Full Preterists do NOT teach a bodily return of Christ in AD 70 to the Mount of Olives, (as the prophet Zechariah predicted during that siege period for Judah and Jerusalem). Most of the FP believe Christ Jesus abandoned His glorified body as He ascended to heaven in Acts 1, and existed from then onward only in the Spirit. This is patently false, as the Scriptures teach that Christ as our divine / human mediating Great High Priest still retains that glorified resurrected body in heaven that came out of the grave back in AD 33.

Yes
He took on the God man at his incarnation as a man.
Now in heaven as the God man.
He is declared a man in heaven in Rev 5.

 

[grafted branch]

The Bible does say that the earth is round.

Isaiah 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

The word circle is <2329> chug.

Here’s a short list of verses that speak about the corners of the earth …

Job 37:3, Isaiah 11:12, Isaiah 41:9, Revelation 7:1, Revelation 20:8.

We know in the past that there were some people in the church that argued that the earth was flat and they got that idea from the scriptures, not from secular sources. No doubt they would’ve argued that the word <2329> chug didn’t mean a round earth, they would’ve argued it meant horizon or was referring to ANE cosmological view that claninja pointed out in post#563.

Now, why are you choosing the word “round” as a definition for <2329>? Are you relying on secular science instead of the Bible which tells us the earth has four corners?

 

[JLB]

Already answered. Also, if you check the Zech 14 prophecy in various translations and textual versions, it may mean different things.

For example:
"All holy ones [are] with You."
Literal Standard Version

Because of the ambiguity of the Old Testament prophecies, it is always best to go with the New Testament and with the words of Jesus and of the apostles. Either they explained the prophecy correctly or the prophecy was not about the events they taught about (and therefore are not relevant for Christians).

So, I am offering three options:
a) Zech 14 was fulfilled with the 1st century events and your textual version and translation simply is not the right one
b) Zech 14 was not about the 1st century events but happened before, in some other attack on Jerusalem (there were plenty before 70 AD)
c) Zech 14 was about some third coming of Jesus, but this is not being taught in the New Testament at all, so these are really wild waters

No ambiguity, no twisting and diluting God’s word will make it somehow go away.

You have not answered my question. Explaining away the scripture is not answering my question.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5



Did the Lord fight against the Roman soldiers who destroyed the temple and the city in 70 AD?


Yes or No?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The word circle is <2329> chug.

Yeah. What is your point?

Here’s a short list of verses that speak about the corners of the earth …

Job 37:3, Isaiah 11:12, Isaiah 41:9, Revelation 7:1, Revelation 20:8.

We know in the past that there were some people in the church that argued that the earth was flat and they got that idea from the scriptures, not from secular sources.

Because they were stupid and, apparently, never read Isaiah 40:22. And, did they never look at the moon? Why would they think the earth would be shaped completely differently than the moon?

No doubt they would’ve argued that the word <2329> chug didn’t mean a round earth,

No doubt? Only if they were stupid.

they would’ve argued it meant horizon or was referring to ANE cosmological view that claninja pointed out in post#563.

LOL. Give me a break.

Now, why are you choosing the word “round” as a definition for <2329>? Are you relying on secular science instead of the Bible which tells us the earth has four corners?

LOL. Thanks for reminding me yet again that you can't be taken seriously. I guess you think all of the English translators didn't know what they were doing and you know Hebrew better than all of them.