WHY JESUS AND THE TWELVE APOSTLES DID NOT PREACH THE CROSS

[Davy]

[Jhn 8:51 KJV] 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death........................This passage has to understood by viewing the context. Here Jesus says that those in him would not see death

[Jhn 8:52-53 KJV] 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?........................The Jews refuted what Jesus said by saying Abraham was dead and so where the prophets

[Jhn 8:56 KJV] 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad...................Jesus is simply saying that Abraham was alive in him

No, you're trying to make excuses 'against'... what Jesus said to the BLIND PHARISEES.

ABRAHAM MET JESUS CHRIST BACK IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Jesus was one of the "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door, and Abraham bowed down to Him and called Him "Lord". Jesus had not yet been born in the flesh when that happened, yet He ate and drank what Abraham prepared for them. The other two men were the two angels Jesus sent to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus stayed behind speaking with Abraham (Genesis 18 and Genesis 19).

In Hebrews 7, is revealed that the Melchisedec was Jesus Christ Who MET Abraham and offered Abraham "bread and wine", symbolic of The NEW COVENANT and GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. The pivot verses that prove this in Hebrews 7 are these...

Heb 7:13-14
13 For He of Whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV

The "these things" refer to all the declarations about Melchisedec in that Hebrews 7 Chapter starting at verse 1.

Lord Jesus was originally 'King of Salem' (means King of Peace) in the old world, which is what the name Melchisedec means. (Hebrew melek = king; Hebrew tsedeq = righteous, thus also King of Righteousness is one of Christ's names.)

Heb 7:1-3
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
KJV

Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been in that Office of Melchisedec Priest, and continues today as Prince of Peace under The New Covenant.

And Apostle Paul said The Gospel was PREACHED TO ABRAHAM, Abraham believed, and it was counted to him as righteousness...

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Apostle Paul showed above that blessing to Abraham because of his... Faith is also to all those who BELIEVE The Gospel like Abraham did. And thus THOSE OF FAITH have become "the children of Abraham."!

And just to be clear... on that very point about Abraham hearing and believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul repeats that very idea again in Galatians 3...

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree':

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Did Apostle Paul say, "That the blessing of Apostle Paul...", or "... of Peter...", or of any of Christ's disciples or later preacher of The Gospel? NO! Apostle Paul said PLAINLY, "That the blessing of Abraham..." pointing to Abraham's FAITH on The Gospel that was PREACHED TO HIM, would ALSO go to the Gentiles.

That begs the BIG... BIG... QUESTION: Why haven't you JEWS recognized in your Old Testament writings what Apostle Paul taught there in Galatians 3 about The Gospel having been PREACHED TO ABRAHAM, AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED, AND IT IS THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM THAT THE FAITH OF THOSE OF CHRIST'S CHURCH HAVE ALSO BELIEVED??

You JEWS have had possession of that revelation in The Old Testament about The Gospel of Jesus Christ starting with Abraham, so why haven't you understood and believed it as written??

 

[Doug]

I guess I'm going to have to SPOON FEED you.

The following Acts 2 Scripture is Peter PREACHING THE CROSS. By your DENIAL of the following Acts 2 Scripture, I have to wonder IF... you are an actual Christian, because it is obvious what Peter is preaching concerning Christ's CRUCIFIXION and RESURRECTION from the dead!

Apostle Peter speaking...

Acts 2:22-36
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Got to start with the above verse so one knows Who these verses are pointing to.

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

THERE'S THE CROSS, JESUS' CRUCIFIXION! Peter points directly to "Ye men of Israel" as being responsible.

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that He should be holden of it.

THERE'S JESUS' HAVING BEEN RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY THE FATHER, CHRIST'S RESURRECTION!

25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for He is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt Thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption.

The Father did NOT allow Jesus' body to see corruption. That is what David was saying about Christ Jesus.

28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; Thou shalt make me full of joy with Thy countenance.

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Christ Jesus' flesh lineage would come from David's lineage. David's earthy throne is to be inherited by Lord Jesus Christ at His future return.

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Again, Jesus' flesh body was translated, not found in the tomb. It did not see corruption like our dead flesh bodies do. Christ's RESURRECTION was special, his Spirit body retaining the marks of His crucifixion. AGAIN THIS IS PETER PREACHING OF THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST!

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

PETER DIRECTLY PREACHING THE RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST, PETER HIMSELF AS A DIRECT WITNESS OF IT.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, He hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, "The LORD said unto my Lord, 'Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.'"

Christ Jesus at present sits at the right hand of The Father, still expecting until all His enemies are made His footstool. THAT AGAIN IS ABOUT CHRIST'S RESURRECTION AND HAVING ASCENDED TO HEAVEN TO THE FATHER.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
KJV

ONCE AGAIN, PETER PREACHES JESUS' CRUCIFIXION, THEN SPECIFICALLY 'THE CROSS' WITH WHAT ONE MUST DO TO BE SAVED...

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Those present of Israel then ask Peter what they should do to alleviate responsibility for the sin of having Jesus crucified!

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

SINCE YOU THINK YOU MUST HEAR WORDS ABOUT HOW TO BE SAVED BY CHRIST'S DEATH AND RESURRECTION, THERE IT IS, THE DIRECT PREACHING OF THE CROSS BY APOSTLE PETER!

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation."
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
KJV

THEN THOSE WHO HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD PETER'S PREACHING WERE BAPTIZED IN JESUS CHRIST, AND ADDED TO THE CHURCH.

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

THERE'S THE CROSS, JESUS' CRUCIFIXION! Peter points directly to "Ye men of Israel" as being responsible.

My request was to show Peter preaching the cross for salvation. Peter was not preaching the cross for salvation but rather he was condemning them for crucifying him

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Christ Jesus' flesh lineage would come from David's lineage. David's earthy throne is to be inherited by Lord Jesus Christ at His future return.

I never disputed he preached the resurrection. This is exactly right, Jesus rose to fulfill the promise of the kingdom and sit on the throne of David

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
KJV

ONCE AGAIN, PETER PREACHES JESUS' CRUCIFIXION, THEN SPECIFICALLY 'THE CROSS' WITH WHAT ONE MUST DO TO BE SAVED...

Peter was only stating the fact of his crucifixion not all that was accomplished by it

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

SINCE YOU THINK YOU MUST HEAR WORDS ABOUT HOW TO BE SAVED BY CHRIST'S DEATH AND RESURRECTION, THERE IT IS, THE DIRECT PREACHING OF THE CROSS BY APOSTLE PETER!

Peter was preaching the water baptism of John for the remission of sins not the cross. He was preaching water baptism to receive the Holy Ghost. He was preaching to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Peter preached salvation through tne name of Jesus as did John.....................[Jhn 20:31 KJV] 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[Doug]

No, you're trying to make excuses 'against'... what Jesus said to the BLIND PHARISEES.

ABRAHAM MET JESUS CHRIST BACK IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Jesus was one of the "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door, and Abraham bowed down to Him and called Him "Lord". Jesus had not yet been born in the flesh when that happened, yet He ate and drank what Abraham prepared for them. The other two men were the two angels Jesus sent to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus stayed behind speaking with Abraham (Genesis 18 and Genesis 19).

In Hebrews 7, is revealed that the Melchisedec was Jesus Christ Who MET Abraham and offered Abraham "bread and wine", symbolic of The NEW COVENANT and GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. The pivot verses that prove this in Hebrews 7 are these...

Heb 7:13-14
13 For He of Whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
KJV

The "these things" refer to all the declarations about Melchisedec in that Hebrews 7 Chapter starting at verse 1.

Lord Jesus was originally 'King of Salem' (means King of Peace) in the old world, which is what the name Melchisedec means. (Hebrew melek = king; Hebrew tsedeq = righteous, thus also King of Righteousness is one of Christ's names.)

Heb 7:1-3
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
KJV

Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been in that Office of Melchisedec Priest, and continues today as Prince of Peace under The New Covenant.

And Apostle Paul said The Gospel was PREACHED TO ABRAHAM, Abraham believed, and it was counted to him as righteousness...

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Apostle Paul showed above that blessing to Abraham because of his... Faith is also to all those who BELIEVE The Gospel like Abraham did. And thus THOSE OF FAITH have become "the children of Abraham."!

And just to be clear... on that very point about Abraham hearing and believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ, Apostle Paul repeats that very idea again in Galatians 3...

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree':

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Did Apostle Paul say, "That the blessing of Apostle Paul...", or "... of Peter...", or of any of Christ's disciples or later preacher of The Gospel? NO! Apostle Paul said PLAINLY, "That the blessing of Abraham..." pointing to Abraham's FAITH on The Gospel that was PREACHED TO HIM, would ALSO go to the Gentiles.

That begs the BIG... BIG... QUESTION: Why haven't you JEWS recognized in your Old Testament writings what Apostle Paul taught there in Galatians 3 about The Gospel having been PREACHED TO ABRAHAM, AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED, AND IT IS THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM THAT THE FAITH OF THOSE OF CHRIST'S CHURCH HAVE ALSO BELIEVED??

You JEWS have had possession of that revelation in The Old Testament about The Gospel of Jesus Christ starting with Abraham, so why haven't you understood and believed it as written??

ABRAHAM MET JESUS CHRIST BACK IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Jesus was one of the "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door, and Abraham bowed down to Him and called Him "Lord". Jesus had not yet been born in the flesh when that happened, yet He ate and drank what Abraham prepared for them. The other two men were the two angels Jesus sent to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus stayed behind speaking with Abraham (Genesis 18 and Genesis 19).

Good point

And just to be clear... on that very point about Abraham hearing and believing The Gospel of Jesus Christ

The gospel of Christ was only given to Paul
Here is what gospel was preached to Abraham.........................[Gal 3:8 KJV] 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 

[Davy]

My request was to show Peter preaching the cross for salvation. Peter was not preaching the cross for salvation but rather he was condemning them for crucifying him

I never disputed he preached the resurrection. This is exactly right, Jesus rose to fulfill the promise of the kingdom and sit on the throne of David

Peter was only stating the fact of his crucifixion not all that was accomplished by it

Peter was preaching the water baptism of John for the remission of sins not the cross. He was preaching water baptism to receive the Holy Ghost. He was preaching to be baptized in the name of Jesus. Peter preached salvation through tne name of Jesus as did John.....................[Jhn 20:31 KJV] 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is impossible to preach the 'cross' specifically without mention of Christ's crucifixion, death and resurrection.

Christ Jesus having been raised from the dead by The Father is one of the hinge-points of preaching the cross.

The remission of the sins of those who believe the Apostle's witness of Jesus Christ having died on the cross and resurrected after 3 days is another hinge-point of preaching the cross.

THEREFORE, YOU CANNOT TRY AND LIMIT... PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST TO ONLY THE ACT OF FAITH ON JESUS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. And that is what you are actually referring to when you use terms like 'preaching the cross.'

 

[Davy]

The gospel of Christ was only given to Paul

There's that false doctrine of men called Dispensationalism again. John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain is who came up with that brand of Dispensationalism. Later versions like Hyper-Dispensationalism were even worse, with the false idea of the existence of TWO Gospels, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles. Then among that deceived group, they began arguing against each other about when the Church actually started, and between Pentecost and Paul's Ministry. DOCTRINES OF MEN, that's all those fights are, and it only shows how even educated men in the seminaries can be deceived by the devil.

 

[Doug]

It is impossible to preach the 'cross' specifically without mention of Christ's crucifixion, death and resurrection.

Christ Jesus having been raised from the dead by The Father is one of the hinge-points of preaching the cross.

The remission of the sins of those who believe the Apostle's witness of Jesus Christ having died on the cross and resurrected after 3 days is another hinge-point of preaching the cross.

THEREFORE, YOU CANNOT TRY AND LIMIT... PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST TO ONLY THE ACT OF FAITH ON JESUS FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. And that is what you are actually referring to when you use terms like 'preaching the cross.'

Merely stating that Jesus was crucified is not preaching the cross, which Peter did, he did not preach what the cross accomplished,
By the cross Paul revealed:
His died for our sins................[1Co 15:3 KJV] 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
We are justified by his blood........................[Rom 5:9 KJV] 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Christ was a ransom for all, not just Israel.................................[1Ti 2:6 KJV] 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
We have been crucified with Christ............................[Rom 6:6 KJV] 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[Doug]

There's that false doctrine of men called Dispensationalism again. John Nelson Darby in 1830's Great Britain is who came up with that brand of Dispensationalism. Later versions like Hyper-Dispensationalism were even worse, with the false idea of the existence of TWO Gospels, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles. Then among that deceived group, they began arguing against each other about when the Church actually started, and between Pentecost and Paul's Ministry. DOCTRINES OF MEN, that's all those fights are, and it only shows how even educated men in the seminaries can be deceived by the devil.

What matters is what does scripture say

 

[Davy]

Merely stating that Jesus was crucified is not preaching the cross, which Peter did, he did not preach what the cross accomplished,

I pretty much disproved your above idea on that by what Peter said...

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
KJV

And please, stop making stupid excuses that they were baptized only with the baptism of John, because only having the baptism of John EXCLUDES knowledge of Christ's death and resurrection. You should... have know that by what Apostle Paul showed in Acts 19...

Acts 19:1-5
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

3 And he said unto them, "Unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said, "Unto John's baptism."

4 Then said Paul, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him Which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

 

[Davy]

What matters is what does scripture say

Yes, always. But some... men DON'T CARE WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY AS WRITTEN, and make up their own doctrines. The devil and his children are especially adept at creating make-believe doctrines. And God allows it to test us with, to see if we will listen to HIM in HIS WORD, or not.

Sadly, those who do NOT listen to GOD in HIS WORD include a lot of brethren who love The LORD, but wrongly put their trust in the word of men.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[1Corinthians 2:7-8 KJV] 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

There are those who say that Peter and the disciples all preached the same gospel. They say they preached the cross for eternal salvation for all who believe.

This verse has implications to those who hold this view.

If Peter and the disciples did preach the cross, then all that the cross accomplished would have been made known, and they would not have crucified Christ.

According to scripture Peter and the disciples could not have preached the cross because they didn't understand anything about his death and resurrection...............[Mark 9:31-32 KJV] 31 For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. 32 But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

Jesus did not preach the cross for salvation. Jesus privately told the disciples that he would be put to death and rise again to fulfill all that was written in the prophets.................[Luke 24:44 KJV] 44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Jesus did not preach the cross. Jesus preached the gospel of the kingdom..........[Matthew 4:23 KJV] 23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Who teaches you this garbage???????????????????????

At the beginning they did not preach the cross, but after Pentecost they surely did! Why do you make such foolish charges against teh Word of GoJesus and the Apostles are the cornerstone and foundation of the truth! And that truth includes the preaching of the cross! Once again, not at first but after Pentecost when they were empowered and emboldened by the holy spirit they most certainly did!

Doug, also remember that for unknown years as they preached to the Jews, they preached to a crowd who knew about the cross! they added on the resurrection. what they did was similar to what we do to an unsaved who grew up in a "Christian sect". They have much basic infor, we just add the needed touched to give them teh chance to be saved.

 

[Doug]

I pretty much disproved your above idea on that by what Peter said...

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
KJV

And please, stop making stupid excuses that they were baptized only with the baptism of John, because only having the baptism of John EXCLUDES knowledge of Christ's death and resurrection. You should... have know that by what Apostle Paul showed in Acts 19...

Acts 19:1-5
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?" And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

3 And he said unto them, "Unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said, "Unto John's baptism."

4 Then said Paul, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him Which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

I pretty much disproved your above idea on that by what Peter said...

Acts 2:37-41
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

How does upholding the water baptism prescribed by John preach the cross?

And please, stop making stupid excuses that they were baptized only with the baptism of John, because only having the baptism of John EXCLUDES knowledge of Christ's death and resurrection. You should... have know that by what Apostle Paul showed in Acts 19...

Peter preached the baptism of John plus receiving the Holy Ghost

 

[Doug]

Yes, always. But some... men DON'T CARE WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY AS WRITTEN, and make up their own doctrines. The devil and his children are especially adept at creating make-believe doctrines. And God allows it to test us with, to see if we will listen to HIM in HIS WORD, or not.

Sadly, those who do NOT listen to GOD in HIS WORD include a lot of brethren who love The LORD, but wrongly put their trust in the word of men.

Then we should just read the scripture where it speaks plainly and not make it say what it doesn't

 

[Doug]

Who teaches you this garbage???????????????????????

At the beginning they did not preach the cross, but after Pentecost they surely did! Why do you make such foolish charges against teh Word of GoJesus and the Apostles are the cornerstone and foundation of the truth! And that truth includes the preaching of the cross! Once again, not at first but after Pentecost when they were empowered and emboldened by the holy spirit they most certainly did!

Doug, also remember that for unknown years as they preached to the Jews, they preached to a crowd who knew about the cross! they added on the resurrection. what they did was similar to what we do to an unsaved who grew up in a "Christian sect". They have much basic infor, we just add the needed touched to give them teh chance to be saved.

Who teaches you this garbage???????????????????????

You fail to show me or anyone why it is garbage

At the beginning they did not preach the cross, but after Pentecost they surely did!

Please show me a scriptural passage where they preached the cross

 

[Davy]

How does upholding the water baptism prescribed by John preach the cross?

You're kidding me, right?

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Acts 8:36-38
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
37 And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
KJV

Acts 9:17-18
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, That appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
KJV

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
KJV

Acts 19:3-5
3 And he said unto them, "Unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said, "Unto John's baptism."
4 Then said Paul, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him Which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Baptism with water was still an essential, but to be baptized in Christ, Jesus must be preached along with that water baptism. That is why the above shows when Paul told them about Jesus Christ, immediately their water baptism became symbolic of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.


Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
KJV

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV

1 Peter 3:21
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
KJV

 

[Doug]

You're kidding me, right?

Mark 16:16
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
KJV

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Acts 8:36-38
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
37 And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
KJV

Acts 9:17-18
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, That appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost."
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
KJV

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
KJV

Acts 19:3-5
3 And he said unto them, "Unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said, "Unto John's baptism."
4 Then said Paul, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him Which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
KJV

Baptism with water was still an essential, but to be baptized in Christ, Jesus must be preached along with that water baptism. That is why the above shows when Paul told them about Jesus Christ, immediately their water baptism became symbolic of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.


Acts 22:16
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
KJV

Matt 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
KJV

1 Peter 3:21
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
KJV

Mark 16:15-18 applies to the twelve. They were commanded to obey this. This was interrupted by the dispensation of grace but resume in the tribulation. They were to preach the gospel of the kingdom and those who believed had to be baptized to enter the kingdom on earth.

Matthew 28:19 once again was a command to the disciples. This will be fulfilled after the kingdom on earth is established. They will teach the Gentile nations that have entered the kingdom.

For the most part water baptism was to cleanse and purify and to remit sins. They had to believe on the name of Jesus, believe he was Christ, the Son of God.

 

[Davy]

Mark 16:15-18 applies to the twelve.

No, Jesus and His Apostles commanded water baptism for ALL... that would believe. So that was not just for Christ's 12 Apostles.

Lord Jesus Himself was baptized of water, so He set the example for us. And those who are able have no excuse. Those who are not... able, like the malefactor crucified with Jesus who believed, can be saved without water baptism because he was not able to do it while upon the cross. Jesus has the Power to save without water baptism, but it's not to be used as an excuse to not get baptized.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You fail to show me or anyone why it is garbage

I am asking who teaches you this.
I have many times shown you this is error, but you plainly reject it.

Please show me a scriptural passage where they preached the cross

Acts 2:23-24

King James Version

​

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2:35-37

King James Version

​

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Now let me ask you directly, since Pentecost, do you believe anyone can be saved without believing in the Crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus for their sins?

 

[Doug]

No, Jesus and His Apostles commanded water baptism for ALL... that would believe. So that was not just for Christ's 12 Apostles.

Lord Jesus Himself was baptized of water, so He set the example for us. And those who are able have no excuse. Those who are not... able, like the malefactor crucified with Jesus who believed, can be saved without water baptism because he was not able to do it while upon the cross. Jesus has the Power to save without water baptism, but it's not to be used as an excuse to not get baptized.

What I was saying was in regard to the whole passage of Mark 16 was that verse 15 commanded them to go to the world and preach the gospel. The believers were to be baptized. The gospel would be preached in the tribulation and those who believed and were baptized would inherit the kingdom on earth. This was not a blanket command for all to be baptized.

 

[Doug]

I am asking who teaches you this.
I have many times shown you this is error, but you plainly reject it.

Alot from my Bible study but my teachers teach rightly dividing, grace, mid acts teachers

 

[Doug]

Now let me ask you directly, since Pentecost, do you believe anyone can be saved without believing in the Crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus for their sins?

Pentecost was not the beginning of the church in this dispensation, it pertained to believing Israel, however we are saved by Christ dying for our sins and raised for our justification