Is it possible to lose salvation?

[nedsk]

Faith alone before the 1500's.

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

And without works no one is saved. Faith doesn't cause works. Works are a free act of the will. If faith was sufficient there would be no need to ever mention works. Nice try though. Id give you an A-

 

[Behold]

It's obvious you don't know what you believe.

Its obvous that when you are confronted with the Satanic deception that is your Hyper-Calvinism........and its pointed out to you, that according to this "dung" theology you believe and teach........some of your family members, are "predestined for hell" before they were born...
So, i asked you 4x....."Which in your family are pre-destined for hell".? , and "why were you not predestined for Hell".?

You have not answered.... you keep running from the question 4x.... ..and the members and the MODs see you clearly. @Christian Soldier .
And they are going to see you again, when you post more of your carnality to me, as im going to ask you the same question again.

- see you there next time....

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Augustine

Augustine was a heretic!

And without works no one is saved. Faith doesn't cause works. Works are a free act of the will. If faith was sufficient there would be no need to ever mention works. Nice try though. Id give you an A-

It's more like an F-

 

[nedsk]

Augustine was a heretic!





It's more like an F-

No he wasnt because he wasnt preaching sola fide. It as if you people stop thinking when you get "saved". Do you know what the word sufficient means? None of you seem to

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No he wasnt because he wasnt preaching sola fide. It as if you people stop thinking when you get "saved". Do you know what the word sufficient means? None of you seem to

Augustine taught doctrines of demons

Those following his error will learn that the hard way one day

 

[mailmandan]

And without works no one is saved. Faith doesn't cause works. Works are a free act of the will. If faith was sufficient there would be no need to ever mention works. Nice try though. Id give you an A-

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) Man is saved through faith "apart from the merit of works" yet genuine faith does not remain "apart from the presence of works."

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[nedsk]

Augustine taught doctrines of demons

Those following his error will learn that the hard way one day

So you have no clue what the word sufficient means. I'd like to say I'm surprised but I don't like to lie.

 

[nedsk]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) Man is saved through faith "apart from the merit of works" yet genuine faith does not remain "apart from the presence of works."

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Why does it need to be "evidenced"? God doesn't know you have faith so you have to show him evidence?

 

[mailmandan]

Why does it need to be "evidenced"? God doesn't know you have faith so you have to show him evidence?

God knows who has faith and who doesn't. God infallibly knows the hearts of all men. James said, "I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18) That is evidence. By saying, "faith without works is dead," James is not teaching that works are the very essence of faith. James is confronting empty profession--dead faith (James 2:14) and is not redefining faith’s essence.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

 

[mailmandan]

Augustine was a heretic!

It's more like an F-

Everyone is a heretic to you. nedsk said, "Show me any kind of teaching from anyone who preached we are saved by faith alone before then1500s."

I showed multiple people who taught faith alone and for that I get an F -?

 

[nedsk]

God knows who has faith and who doesn't. God infallibly knows the hearts of all men. James said, "I will show you my faith by my works." (James 2:18) That is evidence. By saying, "faith without works is dead," James is not teaching that works are the very essence of faith. James is confronting empty profession--dead faith (James 2:14) and is not redefining faith’s essence.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

So I'll ask you again why is evidence needed? Only God needs to know your faith. If faith were sufficient there would be no need for evidence. There would be no need to discuss works at all. Do you have any clue why we never read about shaving your head for salvation?

So you want to say that works flow from faith but are not necessary for salvation. So that means a person can have salvific faith and robs banks right? Oh wait you would say that person wasn't "really" a Christian yet works aren't necessary for salvation.

So does faith cause works? When people have faith do they lose the capacity to choose to do evil? You cant have it vall ways but you people always do.

 

[mailmandan]

So I'll ask you again why is evidence needed? Only God needs to know your faith. If faith were sufficient there would be no need for evidence. There would be no need to discuss works at all. Do you have any clue why we never read about shaving your head for salvation?

So you want to say that works flow from faith but are not necessary for salvation. So that means a person can have salvific faith and robs banks right? Oh wait you would say that person wasn't "really" a Christian yet works aren't necessary for salvation.

So does faith cause works? When people have faith do they lose the capacity to choose to do evil? You cant have it vall ways but you people always do.

I summed it up in post #3,647. Evidence is needed to show that our faith is genuine. (James 2:14) Faith produces works and not the other way around. You seem determined to believe that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. Let the boasting begin? (Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[nedsk]

Everyone is a heretic to you. nedsk said, "Show me any kind of teaching from anyone who preached we are saved by faith alone before then1500s."

I showed multiple people who taught faith alone and for that I get an F -?

That doesn't teach faith alone. I showed you that. So when you posted "faith alone" you think that means only faith but: you can see then that a man is justified by works and not "faith alone". When janes uses your words you don't like it.

Btw not everyone is a heretic only the preach this sola fide heresy are. Don't be a drama queen

 

[nedsk]

I summed it up in post #3,647. Evidence is needed to show that our faith is genuine. Faith produces works and not the other way around. You seem determined to believe that we are saved by BOTH faith AND works. Let the boasting begin? (Ephesians 2:8,9)

To who? God doesn't know your faith is genuine? If you have to show it then it's necessary what's wrong with you? I'm not determined to believe anything I can read with comprehension.

You can see then that a man is justified by works AND not by faith alone. See the caps? Where does Scripture say we will be boasting if we have both faith and works? It cautions against boasting for your works not your faith AND your work. Unbelievable

 

[mailmandan]

That doesn't teach faith alone. I showed you that. So when you posted "faith alone" you think that means only faith

I showed you multiple quotes by people before the 1500's that said faith alone.

but: you can see then that a man is justified by works and not "faith alone". When janes uses your words you don't like it.

James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Works-salvationists typically confuse faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14-24) I like what both James and Paul have to say just fine.

Btw not everyone is a heretic only the preach this sola fide heresy are. Don't be a drama queen

I was addressing Big Boy Johnson. Salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is not heresy. Salvation by works is heresy. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[mailmandan]

To who? God doesn't know your faith is genuine? If you have to show it then it's necessary what's wrong with you? I'm not determined to believe anything I can read with comprehension.

Even though God already knows our hearts, we still show our faith by our works before God and man. James 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

We show our faith by our works. SHOW, not establish. Big difference.

You can see then that a man is justified by works AND not by faith alone. See the caps? Where does Scripture say we will be boasting if we have both faith and works? It cautions against boasting for your works not your faith AND your work. Unbelievable

Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. We are boasting if we believe that works "in addition" to faith are the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[nedsk]

I showed you multiple quotes by people before the 1500's that said faith alone.

James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Works-salvationists typically confuse faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6) with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" barren of works. (James 2:14-24) I like what both James and Paul have to say just fine.

I was addressing Big Boy Johnson. Salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is not heresy. Salvation by works is heresy. (Romans 4:2-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

And scripture say you aren't saved by faith alone and you ignore it. So stop yapping

 

[nedsk]

Even though God already knows our hearts, we still show our faith by our works before God and man. James 2:18 - But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

We show our faith by our works. SHOW, not establish. Big difference.

Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. We are boasting if we believe that works "in addition" to faith are the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

You havent explained WHY we need to show it if God sees our and if the works don't matter.

But we aren't tree. Works are a choice. If we don't do there is not salvation. If faith is sufficient then we don't need to show our works and there isn't any reason to even mentions works. It's amazing to watch you people twist in the wind.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

1John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Faith alone before the 1500's.

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

And whatever made you THINK that Catholics believe man is saved by his works??

There is NO FAITH ALONE at any time.
Paul said his faith is worhless if he doesn't have LOVE.

Add just ONE THING to faith...
and it is no longer faith alone.

1 Corinthians 13:1
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.


Thanks for posting in favor of the CC !

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

Thanks again!

We are saved by FAITH ALONE....

but then comes the rest of the story.