Is it possible to lose salvation?

[nedsk]

If you're speaking about SOLA FIDE, then I agree.
Sola Fide was NEVER taught in the early church and was not until the reformation.
ALL the ECFs understood that good deeds were part of salvation...
Jesus Himself taught this and why not?
Did Jesus not say that the Kingdom of God was at hand?
On earth?
Doesn't the Kingdom of God require good works for it to be functional?
Yes sir, it does.

But, as heretical means going against established core issues of the church...
I'd say he definitely was.
On free will
On original sin.
Look into it, it's an interesting study on both him and his positions.

I was speaking on my about sola fide here

 

[nedsk]

@mailmandan always assumes the other member "doesn't get it".

That's rather prideful...
as if it cannot be HIM that is "not getting it".

There an amazing sense of pomposity with folks who hold those views. They really don't like being challenged

 

[GodsGrace]

So, "type 2 works salvation" or salvation by works at the back door? Faith is the root of salvation and obedience which follows is the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Obedience is how genuine faith manifests itself. James 2:14–26 contrasts living faith that produces obedience/works with empty profession that produces nothing/no works.

Jesus does not agree with you.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


Please notice that the branch- the believer - in IN JESUS.
The BELIEVER IN JESUS that does NOT bear fruit is taken away.

And notice that God PRUNES the ones that DO bear fruit so that they can bear even more!
Which kills your argument as to the meaning of TAKEN AWAY since Jesus is comparing 2 methods God uses:

1. God removes branches that do not bear fruit.
They are USELESS to the Kingdom of God on earth.

2. God prunes branches so they could bear even more good deeds.

Now you can go ahead and twist all you want to....
try to make TAKE AWAY mean something about lifting up....
because you are unable to accept the simple and plain truth of scripture...
even JESUS is ignored.

In Matthew 7:24-27, we see two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. (represents believers) The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses. (represents unbelievers) The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him are described as wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.

Nothing of what you've written above is in Matthew 7:24-27
Jesus is speaking about DOING, ACTING on what He taught.

One man ACTS on the words of Jesus....
One man DOES NOT ACT on the words of Jesus.

You twist and change scripture to suit your needs.
We are warned in Revelation not to do this.
You add words, you change meanings.


Let's try again:

Matthew 7:24-27
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."


Please point out where there is talk of foundations.
None.

Please point out where there is talk of believers/non-believers.
None.

Please point out where Jesus speaks of true righteousness is found in Him alone.
Nowhere (in these verses).

The house built on the rock is built on the rock because the man ACTS on the words of Jesus.

The house built on sand is because the man does NOT ACT on the words of Jesus.

Keep in mind that in context, Jesus starts out by saying - Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. As we read further, we continue to see a contrast between a good tree that bears good fruit and a bad tree that bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:16-20) Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

False prophets do not teach what Jesus taught.
False prophets twist the words of Jesus....
they add to them,
detract from them,
change what Jesus plainly taught.

What do we see from YOUR fruits?
You help along those that believe that a person could work or not work....
do or not do....
and still be saved.


The blind leading the blind, just as Jesus said.


Matthew 15:11-14
11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"
13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.
14 "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

I don't believe that His statements are lies. You need to read what Jesus said in context and see the contrast He was making.

Context?
From someone that does not accept the simple statements that Jesus makes?

You make Jesus to be a liar by changing what He means.
Please show where, in Matthew 7:24-27 Jesus states what YOU claim he states.
Please point to the exact words.

Jesus went to the cross for me. Which men's teachings am I following? I have been quoting scripture and not uninspired writings of men.

You add to scripture.
You follow the teaching of men from the 1500's.
You follow teachings that were NEVER taught until then.
OSAS was never taught.
WORKS were always taught.

 

[nedsk]

Faith is sufficient to save because the object of our faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is the allsufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 3:24-26) There is a need to mention works because they are the evidence of a living faith and there are those who merely claim to have faith but demonstrate by the lack of works that they have a bare profession of faith instead. (James 2:14-26)

Evidence to who? It only matters to God and he doesn't know? So you're beating faith isn't sufficient because if it was there would be no need for evidence. Faith without words is dead therefore it can't be salvific. You have no clue what sufficient means.

 

[GodsGrace]

Faith is sufficient to save because the object of our faith (Jesus Christ and His finished work of redemption) is the allsufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 3:24-26) There is a need to mention works because they are the evidence of a living faith and there are those who merely claim to have faith but demonstrate by the lack of works that they have a bare profession of faith instead. (James 2:14-26)

You do believe in SOLA FIDE, which is a new teaching.
And is different than faith alone for salvation.

If faith is sufficient for salvation please explain why Paul states that faiths saves -which indeed it does - and then goes on in every letter of his to DESCRIBE what a Christian life should look like. Yes, describe, one of your favorite words.

In Galatians and Corinthians Paul clearly states that he is speaking to brethren....
he states that we are saved by faith....

and then he goes on to state that those that commit certain acts (sexually immoral, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, etc)
will not see heaven.

Why give a warning if faith is all-sufficient??
(in every letter of his).

 

[Behold]

The definition of a fool, is one who keeps making the same mistake and never learning from his error.

Hyper Calvinism was designed for fools.

As only a fool will believe and teach what it teaches.

So, you've been taught by this Satanic Doctrine that some in your family are going to Hell, and were pre-chosen to go to Hell before they were born. @Christian Soldier
This means that, according to your Hyper-Calvinism theology.........God refused to allow them to Trust in Christ.
Ive now asked you 5X who in your own family has been pre-chosen to go to Hell, according to what you believe and teach..
Is it your Mother? your Dad? Your Grandparents? A Sister or Brother?
See, this is what you are teaching....and yet you can't even face it yourself @Christian Soldier .... and admit who in your famiy has been pre-destined for Hell.

It's time you faced it little one. @Christian Soldier

And the other question you've been asked 5X.....is.....>"Why would God choose some in your family to Go to Hell, but not you"?

So, = Why is that Mr John Hyper Calvinsim? @Christian Soldier ???????????????????????????????

 

[KUWN]

24 You can see, then, that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

26 For just as the body is dead without a spirit, so faith without works is also dead.

Matthew
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my heavenly Father. (Notice the verb, does)

James 2:24 is not talking about eternal salvation. See a few verses earlier where James said that Abraham was justified/vindicated by his works of offering up Isaac. This should help you see what James is saying how he does not contradict Paul. See Rom 4.6
And if Abraham were justified (eternal salvation) when he offered Isaac, was Abraham an unbeliever for the 12 to 14 years before this incident with Isaac. No, Abraham was already a believer when God told him to sacrifice Isaac.

Romans 4:6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Nowhere does James say someone can be saved by faith AND works. James knows of no such justification. What James says here in Ch2 is that there are two kinds of justification. One by faith, and another justification by works. There are two faiths mentioned in the Greek construct here.

Let me paste a post I did quite some time ago. Don't believe me, research this for yourself.

James 2:24

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

It was not just this verse that got Martin Luther upset. Basically, he didn’t like the whole epistle of James (the half-brother of our Lord). In his 1522 German translation of the New Testament, Luther called the epistle of James an “epistola straminea.” I don’t know an ounce of German, but I do know how most translate this expression: an “epistle of straw.” (I guess this means that some liberal wolf could easily blow this verse over )
To Luther, this verse (and the epistle itself) had to go. It had no place in the Bible. Now Romans was the greatest of books according to Luther, and as far as he was concerned, the apostle Paul took precedence over this imposter, James.


Well, James is no imposter. And I chose this verse to give us a glimpse into the theological point that James was making in this section, and may I add... brilliantly.


I’d like to draw our attention to the very last word in the verse above: ALONE. For those who remember their English grammar, “alone” can be either an adjective or an adverb. Rather than fuss over the English translation, let’s go behind the scenes to the source, namely, the Greek.


The last two words that appear here in the Greek New Testament of this verse look like this: PISTEWS MONON. My point in transliterating these words is simply to comment on the endings of them. Note that their endings are different. The first word, PISTEWS, is the word for “faith.” This word ends with -EWS. The second word, MONON, is “alone, only.” This word ends with -ON.


What this means is that MONON (translated into English as “only” or “alone”) does not modify the noun, “faith.” And to really clear things up a bit, let me add that MONON is an adverb here. And like most adverbs, they “add to a verb” (hence, add-verb) additional meaning. Or, as we learn in grammar, adverbs modify verbs.

Unfortunately, there is no verb in the final phrase of this verse. But that is not at all uncommon in Greek. All one has to do is supply one. And not just anyone; the context will always supply it. And the verb we need to supply is right there in the same sentence, “is justified.” Now, watch what happens when we clear up this English translation to reflect the Greek... with precision:

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not only (justified) by faith.”

All I’ve done so far is clear up the translation. We still need an accurate interpretation. That is, we need to see how this fits into the overall presentation of James. And rather than providing a commentary of James chapter two, let me just make a few simple observations.

What James is demonstrating in this section of Scripture is that there is more than one kind of justification. (Note that I did NOT say that James is presenting more than one kind of SALVATION. Do not equate justification with salvation, something that Martin Luther should have known better than to do.)
James is reminding his readers that there is a justification by faith. And, there is ALSO a justification by works. The two should not be merged, as they are in some Calvinistic camps.

In a verse or two before 2:24, note this comment by James:

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?”

(Note that James does not say, “Was not Abraham our descendant SAVED by works...)
Here, we see a justification BY WORKS. James is not talking about salvation. In fact, Abraham had turned to God for salvation many years before this event with his promised son. You will recall that Abraham was a man of God long before Isaac was born, and this event James is illustrating took place long after Abraham became a saved man.

The justification by works that James refers to is more or less a demonstration (a public expression, if you will) of one’s faith. To put it another way, justification BY WORKS is seen or made evident BEFORE MAN, whereas justification BY FAITH is “seen” only by Members of the Godhead.

In other words, you can claim to have faith and not have it, but you

can not claim to have works and not have them. Works we can see; faith can not be seen by people.

In fact, James illustrates this justification BY WORKS in the very next verse in this manner:

“And similarly, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another way?”

Quite naturally, Rahab was already a saved person long before she “hid” the messengers. What James is simply saying here is that Rahab’s faith can be "SEEN" or made PUBLIC... by her actions/works.

James is well aware of both justifications. His conclusion in this section is simply that (justification by) faith is what we exercise TOWARD God. But that kind of faith can not help a brother or sister in need unless we also have (a justification by) works, which is exercised TOWARD man. To James, faith toward God can not feed a hungry brother or sister. Unless one is moved to action (justification/vindication by works), brothers and sisters might go hungry.

I note also that James identifies those in need as “brothers” and “sisters,” indicating that James is talking about how saved people should act toward fellow Christians. He is NOT writing on HOW TO BECOME a believer, but HOW TO BEHAVE as a believer. Really, Martin Luther should have known better.

I prefer the translation Vindicated over Justification. Works can vindicate a man’s faith. Our faith vindicates our relationship with Christ, Godward. Could it be related to our sanctification (growing toward Christlikeness, this is vindication toward God) which occurs via faith. First vindication is toward mankind, whereas the second vindication is toward God.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus does not agree with you.

John 15:1-2
1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

Please notice that the branch- the believer - in IN JESUS.
The BELIEVER IN JESUS that does NOT bear fruit is taken away.

And notice that God PRUNES the ones that DO bear fruit so that they can bear even more!
Which kills your argument as to the meaning of TAKEN AWAY since Jesus is comparing 2 methods God uses:

1. God removes branches that do not bear fruit.
They are USELESS to the Kingdom of God on earth.

2. God prunes branches so they could bear even more good deeds.

Now you can go ahead and twist all you want to....
try to make TAKE AWAY mean something about lifting up....
because you are unable to accept the simple and plain truth of scripture...
even JESUS is ignored.

Nothing of what you've written above is in Matthew 7:24-27
Jesus is speaking about DOING, ACTING on what He taught.

One man ACTS on the words of Jesus....
One man DOES NOT ACT on the words of Jesus.

You twist and change scripture to suit your needs.
We are warned in Revelation not to do this.
You add words, you change meanings.

Let's try again:

Matthew 7:24-27
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25 "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."

Please point out where there is talk of foundations.
None.

Please point out where there is talk of believers/non-believers.
None.

Please point out where Jesus speaks of true righteousness is found in Him alone.
Nowhere (in these verses).

The house built on the rock is built on the rock because the man ACTS on the words of Jesus.

The house built on sand is because the man does NOT ACT on the words of Jesus.

False prophets do not teach what Jesus taught.
False prophets twist the words of Jesus....
they add to them,
detract from them,
change what Jesus plainly taught.

What do we see from YOUR fruits?
You help along those that believe that a person could work or not work....
do or not do....
and still be saved.

The blind leading the blind, just as Jesus said.

Matthew 15:11-14
11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"
13 But He answered and said, "Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.
14 "Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

Context?
From someone that does not accept the simple statements that Jesus makes?

You make Jesus to be a liar by changing what He means.
Please show where, in Matthew 7:24-27 Jesus states what YOU claim he states.
Please point to the exact words.

You add to scripture.
You follow the teaching of men from the 1500's.
You follow teachings that were NEVER taught until then.
OSAS was never taught.
WORKS were always taught.

You and I have already been round and round on this for years and on different Christian forum sites. You are unable to see anything beyond your works-based false gospel and your human logic is heavily influenced by Roman Catholicism. I've had enough of your long winded rants and your slander. I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and open your eyes to the truth.

 

[mailmandan]

Evidence to who? It only matters to God and he doesn't know? So you're beating faith isn't sufficient because if it was there would be no need for evidence. Faith without words is dead therefore it can't be salvific. You have no clue what sufficient means.

You are the one who remains clueless.

 

[GodsGrace]

You and I have already been round and round on this for years and on different Christian forum sites. You are unable to see anything beyond your works-based false gospel and your human logic is heavily influenced by Roman Catholicism. I've had enough of your long winded rants and your slander. I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and open your eyes to the truth.

Ditto.
Learn to read and accept what JESUS taught.
Stop twisting scripture to suit what you THINK is correct teaching.
You've been heavily influenced by heretical teachings that were not in the church at the time
of Jesus, Paul or any of the other writers.

And YOU are the one with long-winded rants that obliterate teachings of the NT.

Those who teach will be judged more severly....
and even more so those who teach to disobey what the NT teaches.

 

[nedsk]

James 2:24 is not talking about eternal salvation. See a few verses earlier where James said that Abraham was justified/vindicated by his works of offering up Isaac. This should help you see what James is saying how he does not contradict Paul. See Rom 4.6
And if Abraham were justified (eternal salvation) when he offered Isaac, was Abraham an unbeliever for the 12 to 14 years before this incident with Isaac. No, Abraham was already a believer when God told him to sacrifice Isaac.

Romans 4:6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Nowhere does James say someone can be saved by faith AND works. James knows of no such justification. What James says here in Ch2 is that there are two kinds of justification. One by faith, and another justification by works. There are two faiths mentioned in the Greek construct here.

Let me paste a post I did quite some time ago. Don't believe me, research this for yourself.

James 2:24

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

It was not just this verse that got Martin Luther upset. Basically, he didn’t like the whole epistle of James (the half-brother of our Lord). In his 1522 German translation of the New Testament, Luther called the epistle of James an “epistola straminea.” I don’t know an ounce of German, but I do know how most translate this expression: an “epistle of straw.” (I guess this means that some liberal wolf could easily blow this verse over )
To Luther, this verse (and the epistle itself) had to go. It had no place in the Bible. Now Romans was the greatest of books according to Luther, and as far as he was concerned, the apostle Paul took precedence over this imposter, James.


Well, James is no imposter. And I chose this verse to give us a glimpse into the theological point that James was making in this section, and may I add... brilliantly.


I’d like to draw our attention to the very last word in the verse above: ALONE. For those who remember their English grammar, “alone” can be either an adjective or an adverb. Rather than fuss over the English translation, let’s go behind the scenes to the source, namely, the Greek.


The last two words that appear here in the Greek New Testament of this verse look like this: PISTEWS MONON. My point in transliterating these words is simply to comment on the endings of them. Note that their endings are different. The first word, PISTEWS, is the word for “faith.” This word ends with -EWS. The second word, MONON, is “alone, only.” This word ends with -ON.


What this means is that MONON (translated into English as “only” or “alone”) does not modify the noun, “faith.” And to really clear things up a bit, let me add that MONON is an adverb here. And like most adverbs, they “add to a verb” (hence, add-verb) additional meaning. Or, as we learn in grammar, adverbs modify verbs.

Unfortunately, there is no verb in the final phrase of this verse. But that is not at all uncommon in Greek. All one has to do is supply one. And not just anyone; the context will always supply it. And the verb we need to supply is right there in the same sentence, “is justified.” Now, watch what happens when we clear up this English translation to reflect the Greek... with precision:

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not only (justified) by faith.”

All I’ve done so far is clear up the translation. We still need an accurate interpretation. That is, we need to see how this fits into the overall presentation of James. And rather than providing a commentary of James chapter two, let me just make a few simple observations.

What James is demonstrating in this section of Scripture is that there is more than one kind of justification. (Note that I did NOT say that James is presenting more than one kind of SALVATION. Do not equate justification with salvation, something that Martin Luther should have known better than to do.)
James is reminding his readers that there is a justification by faith. And, there is ALSO a justification by works. The two should not be merged, as they are in some Calvinistic camps.

In a verse or two before 2:24, note this comment by James:

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?”

(Note that James does not say, “Was not Abraham our descendant SAVED by works...)
Here, we see a justification BY WORKS. James is not talking about salvation. In fact, Abraham had turned to God for salvation many years before this event with his promised son. You will recall that Abraham was a man of God long before Isaac was born, and this event James is illustrating took place long after Abraham became a saved man.

The justification by works that James refers to is more or less a demonstration (a public expression, if you will) of one’s faith. To put it another way, justification BY WORKS is seen or made evident BEFORE MAN, whereas justification BY FAITH is “seen” only by Members of the Godhead.

In other words, you can claim to have faith and not have it, but you

can not claim to have works and not have them. Works we can see; faith can not be seen by people.

In fact, James illustrates this justification BY WORKS in the very next verse in this manner:

“And similarly, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another way?”

Quite naturally, Rahab was already a saved person long before she “hid” the messengers. What James is simply saying here is that Rahab’s faith can be "SEEN" or made PUBLIC... by her actions/works.

James is well aware of both justifications. His conclusion in this section is simply that (justification by) faith is what we exercise TOWARD God. But that kind of faith can not help a brother or sister in need unless we also have (a justification by) works, which is exercised TOWARD man. To James, faith toward God can not feed a hungry brother or sister. Unless one is moved to action (justification/vindication by works), brothers and sisters might go hungry.

I note also that James identifies those in need as “brothers” and “sisters,” indicating that James is talking about how saved people should act toward fellow Christians. He is NOT writing on HOW TO BECOME a believer, but HOW TO BEHAVE as a believer. Really, Martin Luther should have known better.

I prefer the translation Vindicated over Justification. Works can vindicate a man’s faith. Our faith vindicates our relationship with Christ, Godward. Could it be related to our sanctification (growing toward Christlikeness, this is vindication toward God) which occurs via faith. First vindication is toward mankind, whereas the second vindication is toward God.

The oldest protestant tactic in the book, volume of content. That's why you asked for 2 passages but I gave you only 3 of the many then you unload a truck load of content think that makes a compelling point. It's doesn't. I didn't read any of it as you were given what you asked and the proceeded to try and tell me what it "really" means. Either the words mean what the words mean or they mean what you say they mean. You people are predictable

 

[nedsk]

You are the one who remains clueless.

I'm not clueless you're the one that can't address simple questions. You clearly don't know what sufficient means and not a single one of you sola fide types care to find out. It's almost as if you know you're wrong but you can't admit it and so have to twist yourselves into pretzels to try and convince me you're right. You're not.

 

[Behold]

The oldest protestant tactic in the book, volume of content. That's why you asked for 2 passages but I gave you only 3 of the many then you unload a truck load of content think that makes a compelling point. It's doesn't. I didn't read any of it as you were given what you asked and the proceeded to try and tell me what it "really" means. Either the words mean what the words mean or they mean what you say they mean. You people are predictable

Jesus is Salvation.
You can't "lose" Him, if He is in you.... = "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory".

"well behold, i can walk away from Jesus". "I can do a backflip right out of Christ".

= (face-palm) geez.

You can't walk away from Jesus who is IN YOU......all you can do is not understand Salvation, and that is a carnal mind.
And you certainly have that, if you believe you can lose your Salvation. @nedsk
-

 

[nedsk]

Jesus is Salvation.
You can't "lose" Him, if He is in you.... = "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory".

"well behold, i can walk away from Jesus".

You can't walk away from Jesus who is IN YOU......all you can do is not understand Salvation.
And you certainly dont @nedsk
-
View attachment 72693

You don't lose him you walk away from him. What's wrong with you?

Every one of your attacks on the church makes you look weaker and weaker both intellectually and theologically. You're a sad sample of a Christian

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The same tired old talking points that are meaningless. Anyone with a brain can read the writings of the early church fathers and see they didn't teach any of the garbage you spew. They do however speak quite clearly about the teaching of the church. The hatred of the real church is why you people are so angry.

Do you enjoy being so wrong so much of the time?

I love the real church and Romanism is not the real church.

And they teach the Scriptures not the false teachihngs of Rome.

 

[ProverbsInPink]

Please pay attention Proverbs:

2 Timothy 2:12
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

IF we ENDURE we will also reign with Him.
If we DENY HIM,
He will also deny us.



13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot * deny Himself.

IF we are faithless,
He remains faithful because He cannot deny Himself.


So which verse is correct?
Verse 12 or verse 13?

Please explain because there is an apparent contrdiction here which you have not addressed.

Don't talk down to Christians. It makes you look bad.

Believe what you will
The word is clear. I can't lead you to understanding

 

[BreadOfLife]

Do you enjoy being so wrong so much of the time?

I love the real church and Romanism is not the real church.

And they teach the Scriptures not the false teachihngs of Rome.

I am a Catholic, which IS the "real" Church.
What is "Romanism"?

 

[ProverbsInPink]

The definition of a fool, is one who keeps making the same mistake and never learning from his error. I have answered you silly question many times, but you just keep asking it over and over gain and that tells me you have a problem with comprehension or you're just tolling.

Your questions are foolish in the extreme, I'm not God. You need to ask Him why He does what he does, I told you God has never revealed why he does what He does to anyone. You have obviously come under strong delusion, if you don't know that your questions are blasphemous in the extreme.

Lucifer did exactly the same thing you are doing, and you haven't learned anything for His example, and worse that that you're following in His footsteps. Good luck with that, you'll need lots of it

Do you find it astonishing how much John Calvin is an obsession here?
I looked up his teachings.

It's all derived from the Bible. But some here are so fixated on Calvin that it obscures their vision of the Words of Yahweh.

It's like bad parrots in the same game. "That's Calvinism,Calvinism,Calvinism." And from the rest of it those parties don't have a clue.
They just repeat what others accuse.

 

[mailmandan]

 

[marks]

Don't talk down to Christians. It makes you look bad.

Believe what you will
The word is clear. I can't lead you to understanding

Should all posts be removed where someone is talking down to others, or in otherwise replying with inappropriate ways, how many posts would remain??

Much love!