Faith alone

[nedsk]

The issue of faith and works is big in the, can you lose your salvation, thread so I thought we'd focus on that specifically here. Scripture is quite clear to all but the most stubborn that faith alone is not sufficient for salvation. Some argue that works "flow" from faith as if faith causes works. Some say works are "evidence" of faith as if we need to prove our faith to someone. Would that be God? I bet he knows our faith or lack thereof. If works aren't a freely chosen act then we aren't acting out of love. Love demands a free act of the will. Jesus had to choose the cross hence the agony in the garden. If it wasn't a freely chosen act by Jesus then the crucifixion was just another roman execution.

 

[Davy]

Only reason some are confused on this issue of Faith vs. works is because they allow Satan's host to creep in and confuse the issue.

Abraham believed before the law was given, and before he did anything beforehand. And God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. That is how we are 'saved', as a free gift we cannot not ever earn through works. But those of Faith are... to have works to go with their Faith, which is what Apostle James preached. The works in Christ are a natural byproduct of Faith, just as any field of endeavor is wherever one puts their faith.

Then after Abraham had believed, he was circumcised as a symbol of his Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ. For those in Christ, we are baptized of water for that.

 

[bro.tan]

Lets go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Do we understand this? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God.

(v.24) Ye see then how that by works a man is Justified, and not by faith only. Do you see that also? Do you understand that you need works to go along with that faith; if you love and fear God then you should have no problem obeying his commandments. (v.25) Likewise also was not Ra’-hab the harlot justified by works, when she received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Ra’-hab showed her faith in God and her fear of God by doing good works. (v.26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Take it or leave it, but this is the true uncut word of God. Just as the body is dead when you take away the spirit (breath) so faith is dead if you have no works.



So everyday we have to try to get better and better to the obedient to God's word, because there is still hope for the living.

 

[nedsk]

Only reason some are confused on this issue of Faith vs. works is because they allow Satan's host to creep in and confuse the issue.

Abraham believed before the law was given, and before he did anything beforehand. And God counted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. That is how we are 'saved', as a free gift we cannot not ever earn through works. But those of Faith are... to have works to go with their Faith, which is what Apostle James preached. The works in Christ are a natural byproduct of Faith, just as any field of endeavor is wherever one puts their faith.

Then after Abraham had believed, he was circumcised as a symbol of his Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ. For those in Christ, we are baptized of water for that.

So.fsith with out works is meaningless. If works are not necessary for salvation then there is no need to mention it. I faith alone is sufficient then it doesn't need anything else. Thats what sufficient means. Sola fide.

 

[mailmandan]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[nedsk]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26)

*Jesus Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*

Yes a faith that includes works otherwise it's dead. Just like Scripture says. If faith alone (Sola Fide) was sufficient then why write, faith without works is dead? You people are hilarious.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes a faith that includes works otherwise it's dead. Just like Scripture says. If faith alone (Sola Fide) was sufficient then why write, faith without works is dead? You people are hilarious.

Includes as in works are the very essence of faith? Or works are the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of faith? James is refuting a bare profession of faith that produces no works (James 2:14) and is not teaching works salvation in contradiction to Paul. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) If faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation was insufficient to save then Paul would not have said if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Also, God imputes righteousness apart from works. Paul also said saved by grace through faith, not of works, least anyone should boast.

This is no laughing matter! Obtaining salvation depends on getting this right.

 

[nedsk]

Includes as in works are the very essence of faith? Or works are the fruit, by product and demonstrate evidence of faith? James is refuting a bare profession of faith that produces no works (James 2:14) and is not teaching works salvation in contradiction to Paul. (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) If faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation was insufficient to save then Paul would not have said if Abraham was justified (accounted as righteous) by works he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Also, God imputes righteousness apart from works. Paul also said saved by grace through faith, not of works, least anyone should boast.

This is no laughing matter! Obtaining salvation depends on getting this right.

But if sola fide (faith alone) is sufficient there would be no need to mention works at all. Yet you people go to great lengths to try and claim works are just a fruit of faith. Works are a choice. They aren't the product of faith like an apple is the product of an apple tree. The apple tree has no choice but to produce apples. If we don't have a choice then we aren't acting out of love. You folks have a huge dilemma on your hands.

 

[mailmandan]

But if sola fide (faith alone) is sufficient there would be no need to mention works at all.

Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is sufficient because the object of our faith is sufficient. (Romans 3:24-26) Works are mentioned because they are the demonstrative evidence of a living faith (James 2:14-18) and we are saved FOR good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Yet you people go to great lengths to try and claim works are just a fruit of faith.

They are the fruit of faith. (Matthew 7:17; 13:24; John 15:16; Colossians 1:10)

Works are a choice. They aren't the product of faith like an apple is the product of an apple tree. The apple tree has no choice but to produce apples.

Faith produces works and not the other way around. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Just like the life for a tree flows through the root and produces fruit. A dead apple tree produces nothing. All living apple trees are fruitful and produce apples though not all all apple trees are equally fruitful. It's the same with faith. (Matthew 13:23)

IIf we don't have a choice then we aren't acting out of love. You folks have a huge dilemma on your hands.

We have a choice and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:16) Believers have received the love of God in their hearts. (Romans 5:5) Who is "you folks?" What huge dilemma? Producing works is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.

 

[nedsk]

Faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is sufficient because the object of our faith is sufficient. (Romans 3:24-26) Works are mentioned because they are the demonstrative evidence of a living faith (James 2:14-18) and we are saved FOR good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

They are the fruit of faith. (Matthew 7:17; 13:24; John 15:16; Colossians 1:10)

Faith produces works and not the other way around. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Just like the life for a tree flows through the root and produces fruit. A dead apple tree produces nothing. All living apple trees are fruitful and produce apples though not all all apple trees are equally fruitful. It's the same with faith. (Matthew 13:23)

We have a choice and faith works through love. (Galatians 5:16) Believers have received the love of God in their hearts. (Romans 5:5) Who is "you folks?" What huge dilemma? Producing works is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God.

I thought you said faith produces work? Now you're saying fruit produces works. See I have hard time seeing these arguments as consistent. Faith does not cause works. We have to choose to do the will of the father otherwise God would have nothing to judge. But scripture is clear Matt 25:31-46 those who did not do that work did not inherit the kingdom. This couldn't be more clear. If we don't have a choice then we can't be acting out of love. Jesus had to choose the cross otherwise the crucifixion was just another Roman execution

 

[Davy]

So.fsith with out works is meaningless.

No, I didn't say that. I said just the opposite, can't you read? Works do NOT save us. Only Faith on Jesus Christ saves us. Yet as with any field one is interested in, they will have works in it. That's why Jesus said wherever your treasure is, that is where your heart will be (Matt.6:21).

If works are not necessary for salvation then there is no need to mention it.

Too bad you can't support that statement Biblically, because Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 25 about the "unprofitable servant" being cast to the "outer darkness" with the wicked at His return.

Matt 25:27-30
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

 

[nedsk]

No, I didn't say that. I said just the opposite, can't you read? Works do NOT save us. Only Faith on Jesus Christ saves us. Yet as with any field one is interested in, they will have works in it. That's why Jesus said wherever your treasure is, that is where your heart will be (Matt.6:21).




Too bad you can't support that statement Biblically, because Lord Jesus showed in Matthew 25 about the "unprofitable servant" being cast to the "outer darkness" with the wicked at His return.

Matt 25:27-30
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

I never said works save us. Can't you read? Faith alone is not sufficient. That's what I said. Try to read with comprehension. It really helps.

 

[Davy]

I never said works save us. Can't you read? Faith alone is not sufficient. That's what I said. Try to read with comprehension. It really helps.

Your claim is that works are not... a product of one's FAITH, which of course your idea is false, and is even against all common sense even when not speaking of spiritual matters. Yes, it even means you reject what Jesus showed about where one's treasure is, that is where their heart will be, which is about what they have put their trust and faith in, and thus work to seek to acquire.

 

[Papa Smurf]

But if sola fide (faith alone) is sufficient there would be no need to mention works at all.

Hello Nedsk, that would be true if all who have faith were also saved, but they aren't. James speaks of two different kinds of faith, 1) a lively faith that, along with salvation, results in all of the other things that accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9 cf Ephesians 2:10), and 2) a dead faith that results in, well, nothing (James 2:19). Demons have faith (they certainly know and believe that Jesus is who He says He is .. e.g. Luke 8:27-30, and they shudder because they do), but demons are not saved by their faith because they do not possess the "kind" of faith that saves (and neither, it seems, do the majority of human beings who claim that they have faith and believe that they are Christians .. cf Matthew 7:22-23).

It may also help to consider and understand (and go by) what the Reformers actually meant by sola fide (and the rest of the 5 Solas, for that matter). For instance, do you not find it interesting that they spoke of being saved by grace ALONE ~and~ by faith ALONE ~and~ by Christ ALONE? The first question is, how can that be? If one thing, by itself, saves us, why did the Reformers speak of five things instead?

Hmmm, perhaps we're not understanding what they were actually talking about? This short, interesting and humorous article should prove to be helpful with this: The Sole Soul of the Solas | RC Sproul Jr

Finally, the Reformers also made a lot of important points about faith and saving faith, which certainly makes sense since faith (and what they meant by it) was at the very heart of their teaching in the 16th Century. Here is a short summary of the points that they made about "saving faith".

ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF SAVING FAITH​

​

What are the constituent elements of saving faith? The Protestant Reformers recognized that biblical faith has three essential aspects: notitia, assensus, and fiducia.​

​

Notitia refers to the content of faith, the things we believe. There are certain things we are required to believe about Christ, namely, that He is the Son of God, that He is our Savior, that He has provided an atonement, and so on.​

​

Assensus is the conviction that the content of our faith is true. One can know about the Christian faith and yet believe that it is not true. We might have a doubt or two mixed with our faith, but there has to be a certain level of intellectual affirmation and conviction if we are to be saved. Before anyone can really trust in Jesus Christ, he has to believe that Christ indeed is the Savior, that He is who He claimed to be. Genuine faith says that the content, the notitia, is true.​

​

Fiducia refers to personal trust and reliance. Knowing and believing the content of the Christian faith ~is not enough~, for even demons can do that (James 2:19). Faith is effectual only if one personally trusts in Christ alone for salvation. It is one thing to give an intellectual assent to a proposition but quite another to place personal trust in it. We can say that we believe in justification by faith alone and yet still think that we are going to get to heaven by our achievements, our works, or our striving. It is easy to get the doctrine of justification by faith into our heads, but it is hard to get it into the bloodstream such that we cling to Christ alone for salvation.​

​

There is another element to fiducia besides trust, and that is affection. An unregenerate person will never come to Jesus, because he does not want Jesus. In his mind and heart, he is fundamentally at enmity with the things of God. As long as someone is hostile to Christ, he has no affection for Him. Satan is a case in point. Satan knows the truth, but he hates the truth. He is utterly disinclined to worship God because he has no love for God. We are like that by nature. We are dead in our sin. We walk according to the powers of this world and indulge the lusts of the flesh. Until the Holy Spirit changes us, we have hearts of stone. An unregenerate heart is without affection for Christ; it is both lifeless and loveless. The Holy Spirit changes the disposition of our hearts so that we see the sweetness of Christ and embrace Him. None of us loves Christ perfectly, but we cannot love Him at all unless the Holy Spirit changes the heart of stone and makes it a heart of flesh. ~Sproul, R. C. (2014). Everyone’s a Theologian: An Introduction to Systematic Theology (pp. 238–239). Reformation Trust.​

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[Papa Smurf]

You people go to great lengths to try and claim works are just a fruit of faith.

Well, I don't believe that it's too great of a length, because it comes directly from the Holy Writ. For instance (though I know this passage has already been mentioned above),

Ephesians 2 (NASB 95')​

8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; ​

9 ~not~ as a result of works, so that no one may boast. ​

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ~for/unto~ good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. ​

The thing is, if we do not possess saving faith/are not (already) saved, then we do not yet know the Savior. How can we do works that are pleasing to Him, the works that He prepared beforehand and intends for us to do, prior to being saved by Him/before we even know Him?

--Papa Smurf

 

[Papa Smurf]

Works are a choice. They aren't the product of faith like an apple is the product of an apple tree. The apple tree has no choice but to produce apples. If we don't have a choice then we aren't acting out of love. You folks have a huge dilemma on your hands.

While that's true (that Christians choose to do good works/deeds done in righteousness .. Titus 3:5), no one is saying that we are somehow forced to do them either, are they? (it seems to me that you are unnecessarily conflating things above that need not be). Before we were saved, we sinned because it was part of our old nature to do so. However, as Christians, we act against our new nature whenever we do (choose to sin, that is).

As the Lord told us plainly, "you will know them by their fruits" .. e.g. Matthew 7:18-20.

We choose, as believers, to glorify/honor God, to do good deeds, to obey Him and live holy, rather than sinful, lives, etc., because that's who we are now, by nature, having been made His workmanship (or masterpiece) as wholly new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). He changed us (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5), made us alive (spiritually) and saved us, and He made us new in Him such that we freely choose to act in accord with that glorious change (not because we have to, but because we want to, because that's who we are now, and He continues His mighty work in us, PTL, making us more and more Christlike, from here to Glory).

--Papa Smurf

 

[Debp]

Hello Nedsk, that would be true if all who have faith were also saved, but they aren't. James speaks of two different kinds of faith, 1) a lively faith that, along with salvation, results in all of the other things that accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9 cf Ephesians 2:10), and 2) a dead faith that results in, well, nothing (James 2:19). Demons have faith (they certainly believe that Jesus is who He says He is .. e.g. Luke 8:27-30, and they shudder because they do), but demons are not saved by their faith because they do not possess the "kind" of faith that saves (and neither, it seems, do the majority of human beings who claim that they have faith).

It may also help to consider and understand (and go by) what the Reformers actually meant by sola fide (and the rest of the 5 Solas, for that matter). For instance, do you not find it interesting that they spoke of being saved by grace ALONE ~and~ by faith ALONE ~and~ by Christ ALONE? The first question is, how can that be? If one thing, by itself, saves us, why did the Reformers speak of five?

Hmmm, perhaps we're not understanding what they were actually talking about? This short, interesting and humorous article should prove to be helpful with this: The Sole Soul of the Solas | RC Sproul Jr

Finally, the Reformers also made a lot of important points about faith and saving faith, which certainly makes sense since faith (and what they meant by it) was at the very heart of their teaching in the 16th Century. Here is a short summary of the points that they made about "saving faith".

ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF SAVING FAITH​

​

What are the constituent elements of saving faith? The Protestant Reformers recognized that biblical faith has three essential aspects: notitia, assensus, and fiducia.​

​

Notitia refers to the content of faith, the things we believe. There are certain things we are required to believe about Christ, namely, that He is the Son of God, that He is our Savior, that He has provided an atonement, and so on.​

​

Assensus is the conviction that the content of our faith is true. One can know about the Christian faith and yet believe that it is not true. We might have a doubt or two mixed with our faith, but there has to be a certain level of intellectual affirmation and conviction if we are to be saved. Before anyone can really trust in Jesus Christ, he has to believe that Christ indeed is the Savior, that He is who He claimed to be. Genuine faith says that the content, the notitia, is true.​

​

Fiducia refers to personal trust and reliance. Knowing and believing the content of the Christian faith ~is not enough~, for even demons can do that (James 2:19). Faith is effectual only if one personally trusts in Christ alone for salvation. It is one thing to give an intellectual assent to a proposition but quite another to place personal trust in it. We can say that we believe in justification by faith alone and yet still think that we are going to get to heaven by our achievements, our works, or our striving. It is easy to get the doctrine of justification by faith into our heads, but it is hard to get it into the bloodstream such that we cling to Christ alone for salvation.​

​

There is another element to fiducia besides trust, and that is affection. An unregenerate person will never come to Jesus, because he does not want Jesus. In his mind and heart, he is fundamentally at enmity with the things of God. As long as someone is hostile to Christ, he has no affection for Him. Satan is a case in point. Satan knows the truth, but he hates the truth. He is utterly disinclined to worship God because he has no love for God. We are like that by nature. We are dead in our sin. We walk according to the powers of this world and indulge the lusts of the flesh. Until the Holy Spirit changes us, we have hearts of stone. An unregenerate heart is without affection for Christ; it is both lifeless and loveless. The Holy Spirit changes the disposition of our hearts so that we see the sweetness of Christ and embrace Him. None of us loves Christ perfectly, but we cannot love Him at all unless the Holy Spirit changes the heart of stone and makes it a heart of flesh. ~Sproul, R. C. (2014). Everyone’s a Theologian: An Introduction to Systematic Theology (pp. 238–239). Reformation Trust.​

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

While that's true (that Christians choose to do good works/deeds done in righteousness .. Titus 3:5), no one is saying that we are somehow forced to do them either, are they? (it seems to me that you are unnecessarily conflating things above that need not be). Before we were saved, we sinned because it was part of our old nature to do so. However, as Christians, we act against our new nature whenever we do (choose to sin, that is).

As the Lord told us plainly, "you will know them by their fruits" .. e.g. Matthew 7:18-20.

We choose, as believers, to glorify/honor God, to do good deeds, to obey Him and live holy, rather than sinful, lives, etc., because that's who we are now, by nature, having been made His workmanship (or masterpiece) as wholly new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). He changed us (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5), made us alive (spiritually) and saved us, and He made us new in Him such that we freely choose to act in accord with that glorious change (not because we have to, but because we want to, because that's who we are now, and He continues His mighty work in us, PTL, making us more and more Christlike, from here to Glory).

--Papa Smurf

Thanks, very good explanations. @ArkangeMikail You might like to read the above posts by @Papa Smurf

 

[ArkangeMikail]

While that's true (that Christians choose to do good works/deeds done in righteousness .. Titus 3:5), no one is saying that we are somehow forced to do them either, are they? (it seems to me that you are unnecessarily conflating things above that need not be). Before we were saved, we sinned because it was part of our old nature to do so. However, as Christians, we act against our new nature whenever we do (choose to sin, that is).

As the Lord told us plainly, "you will know them by their fruits" .. e.g. Matthew 7:18-20.

We choose, as believers, to glorify/honor God, to do good deeds, to obey Him and live holy, rather than sinful, lives, etc., because that's who we are now, by nature, having been made His workmanship (or masterpiece) as wholly new creatures in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). He changed us (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5), made us alive (spiritually) and saved us, and He made us new in Him such that we freely choose to act in accord with that glorious change (not because we have to, but because we want to, because that's who we are now, and He continues His mighty work in us, PTL, making us more and more Christlike, from here to Glory).

--Papa Smurf

yes I agree we must do good deeds because we are good

some other religion believe that we must do good deeds to gain positive points to enter in Paradise, it's not about holiness, it's about "moral money"

 

[Papa Smurf]

yes I agree we must do good deeds because we are good

some other religion believe that we must do good deeds to gain positive points to enter in Paradise, it's not about holiness, it's about "moral money"

Hello Arkangel, I agree, other religions (all of them, I believe) are all about being good enough, personally (doing enough good deeds, having enough good karma or, as you put it, earning enough "moral money" to become acceptable to God .. I like that description, "moral money" ), while Christianity is (on the one hand) all about ~not~ getting what we truly deserve (mercy) and, on the other then, receiving what we don't deserve from Him instead (by His grace or "unmerited favor" towards us*).

Of course, if you think about it, His grace is hardly unmerited, it's only "unmerited" by us, yes?

*(Bono has a short, but interesting personal take on all of this, Karma vs Grace, that is, which you can read below in my signature line if you'd care to)​

Finally, as far as your opening reply goes, "we must do good deeds because we are good", I don't think that I'd put it quite that way, because the Bible makes it clear that there is only One who is "good", yes (e.g. Mark 10:18), and I believe that that is still just as true today as it was 2,000 years ago. The thing is, while God quickens us/makes us alive spiritually when He redeems us, forgives us, and saves us from our sins (Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-3, 4-5), we do not become ~intrinsically~ good, like He is (at least, not on this side of the grave anyway).

God gives us a new nature by which we choose to put off the "old man" and put on the "new" (e.g. Ephesians 4:22-24), but we still struggle against our old man/old self throughout the balance of our lives here (because he is always right there lurking in the shadows, just waiting for us to give him another opportunity to rear his ugly head in our lives again ).

This is why we Christians need to remain wholly dependant upon the leading of the Holy Spirit, who indwells us, prays for us, comforts us, teaches and guides us, and convicts us of sin, from here to Glory. This is also one of the principle reasons that we are commanded to continually renew our minds in His word (Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:23).

WOW, I thought that I'd just make a quick comment or two, but it turned into 3 paragraphs instead. Sorry about that, and thank you for reading through all of it (if you chose to do so ;)).

God bless you!! (Numbers 6:24-26)

--Papa Smurf

 

[JLB]

The issue of faith and works is big in the, can you lose your salvation, thread so I thought we'd focus on that specifically here. Scripture is quite clear to all but the most stubborn that faith alone is not sufficient for salvation. Some argue that works "flow" from faith as if faith causes works. Some say works are "evidence" of faith as if we need to prove our faith to someone. Would that be God? I bet he knows our faith or lack thereof. If works aren't a freely chosen act then we aren't acting out of love. Love demands a free act of the will. Jesus had to choose the cross hence the agony in the garden. If it wasn't a freely chosen act by Jesus then the crucifixion was just another roman execution.

When we take a closer look at the word "works" in James, we see the principle of faith that Paul taught throughout the book of Romans.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21

The "work" that Abraham did was to obey the "word" (voice) of God by which he received faith.

God spoke to him and told him to sacrifice his son Isaac on the alter, and Abraham obeyed.

This principle is called the obedience of faith; it is the law or principle by which faith works to produce the intended divine result.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26