How does the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked on the last day work with Premillennialism?

[Writer]

The great tribulation has not occured.
I believe it will one day.
I also believe there will be one resurrection and not two.
I also believe there will be no rapture.
And Jesus is coming back one time...not two - at the end.

I find it disconcerting that we Christians do not agree, we should.

Acts 24:15-16
14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


How many resurrections are here,,,,this is Jesus speaking: (I see only one).


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

In revelation 20:4-5, it describes the martyr's that were resurrected up at Jesus at His second coming, and says this:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the "second death" hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

verse 5 points to the Great White Throne Judgment for those who remain in the grave after Armageddon. This is what the bible refers to as the Second Death.

 

[Scott Downey]

In revelation 20:4-5, it describes the martyr's that were resurrected up at Jesus at His second coming, and says this:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the "second death" hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

verse 5 points to the Great White Throne Judgment for those who remain in the grave after Armageddon. This is what the bible refers to as the Second Death.

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

People do not remain in the grave as all are resurrected.
Jesus says a couple things here about resurrection and life.


John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.

John 5

Life and Judgment Are Through the Son​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[GodsGrace]

In revelation 20:4-5, it describes the martyr's that were resurrected up at Jesus at His second coming, and says this:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the "second death" hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

verse 5 points to the Great White Throne Judgment for those who remain in the grave after Armageddon. This is what the bible refers to as the Second Death.

The book of Revelation was not meant for doctrine.
It was never used for doctrine in the early church.
The reason is that there is no consenses as to the meaning of these passages.

We must base doctrine, instead, on the writings of Paul and the statements made by Jesus.

Let me ask you this:

Revelation 20:5 NASB
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.


Do you believe that we go directly to be with God at our death?

 

[Scott Downey]

The unjust are resurrected to condemnation, meaning they will not inherit the kingdom of God, they have no part in Christ, they do not live in Christ having eternal life. They are condemned officially on the Last Day, which is the resurrection day and the day of judgment and scripturally this is the Day of Christ's returning.

All the unbelieving and wicked are punished with everlasting destruction at the coming of Christ
They are resurrected to condemnation and cast into the Lake of Fire.
They will not participate in any kind of living, because they are physically and spiritually dead.
Kind of an anti-life they will experience as they perish in hell fire eternally.

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Thessalonians 1 - New King James Version

Greeting - Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. God’s Final Judgment and Glory - We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting...

www.biblegateway.com

God’s Final Judgment and Glory​

3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [d]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[Writer]

I didn't mean the grave was the second death, but I see how I wrote could be interpreted as such...sorry.

What i meant was that they would not remain among the living while awaiting the great white throne judgement and then the second death. Those in the first resurrection have already been judged rightly and remain with the Lord eternally.

My appology for the confusion, and thank you for correction.

 

[Writer]

The book of Revelation was not meant for doctrine.
It was never used for doctrine in the early church.
The reason is that there is no consenses as to the meaning of these passages.

We must base doctrine, instead, on the writings of Paul and the statements made by Jesus.

Let me ask you this:

Revelation 20:5 NASB
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.


Do you believe that we go directly to be with God at our death?

I believe Jesus. "where I am, there you shall be also".

 

[Scott Downey]

I believe Jesus. "where I am, there you shall be also".

Absolutely, and Christ is in heaven and we shall be there and reign with Him in heaven if we overcome this world by our faith, then we have a share in Christ.
Revelation 2:11
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 3 - New King James Version

The Son Was Faithful - Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. For this One has been counted worthy of more glory...

www.biblegateway.com

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope [a]firm to the end.

Be Faithful​

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers​

16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe Jesus. "where I am, there you shall be also".

Your reply is not very clear.
Are you saying that ONLY those that believe will be with Jesus
and those that do NOT believe will be in their grave?

The reason I asked you whether or not you believe that we go to be with God immediately upon our death is because of the verse you posted in no. 41:

Revelation 20:5 NASB
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.


Which is completed in thought by:

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Please help me to understand your point of view:

20:4
Those that lived for Christ and were beheaded for the word of God...
THEY lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

This would mean that:

The saved were with Christ.
The unsaved were still dead - some would call this soul sleep.

IF I've understood properly, it would mean that we go to be with God at death...
but the unsaved do not go to their proper place.

You are creating one resurrection for the saved...
and another resurrection for the unsaved.

How is this reconciled with the verses I offered in post 37:?


Acts 24:15-16
14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


(clearly there is one resurrection of BOTH the righteous and the wicked).


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

(clearly there is only one resurrection of both those that did good deeds and those who committed evil deeds).

 

[Writer]

Your reply is not very clear.
Are you saying that ONLY those that believe will be with Jesus
and those that do NOT believe will be in their grave?

The reason I asked you whether or not you believe that we go to be with God immediately upon our death is because of the verse you posted in no. 41:

Revelation 20:5 NASB
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.


Which is completed in thought by:

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Please help me to understand your point of view:

20:4
Those that lived for Christ and were beheaded for the word of God...
THEY lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.

This would mean that:

The saved were with Christ.
The unsaved were still dead - some would call this soul sleep.

IF I've understood properly, it would mean that we go to be with God at death...
but the unsaved do not go to their proper place.

You are creating one resurrection for the saved...
and another resurrection for the unsaved.

How is this reconciled with the verses I offered in post 37:?


Acts 24:15-16
14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


(clearly there is one resurrection of BOTH the righteous and the wicked).


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

(clearly there is only one resurrection of both those that did good deeds and those who committed evil deeds).

Before His return we are living in the age of Grace. This age is coming to an end. In this age God has poured out His spirit to all mankind. Jesus says that apart from repentance, one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. If we, however, confess that Jesus is our Lord before men, than Jesus will confess us before the Father that we belong to Him.

In this age, unless one repents and receives salvation from our Savior, than that one will remain in the grave and not enter, while awaiting the Judgment. "...whosoever..." repents gets saved. It's not a selection on the part of God, but rather by choice and faith by whosoever believes.

At Jesus return, at His appearance, He will call His elect unto Himself, and the age of Grace ends, in other words, for those who remain within the 1000 years, it will no longer be repentance and choice, but rather by Gods choice and selection.
The reason I say that, is because, at the Great White Throne Judgement, God will separate the Goats from the Sheep. We see the word Sheep, so even then, God provides yet another opportunity for some to not perish. The depth of Gods love is beyond comprehension.

 

[Scott Downey]

Before His return we are living in the age of Grace. This age is coming to an end. In this age God has poured out His spirit to all mankind. Jesus says that apart from repentance, one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. If we, however, confess that Jesus is our Lord before men, than Jesus will confess us before the Father that we belong to Him.

In this age, unless one repents and receives salvation from our Savior, than that one will remain in the grave and not enter, while awaiting the Judgment. "...whosoever..." repents gets saved. It's not a selection on the part of God, but rather by choice and faith by whosoever believes.

At Jesus return, at His appearance, He will call His elect unto Himself, and the age of Grace ends, in other words, for those who remain within the 1000 years, it will no longer be repentance and choice, but rather by Gods choice and selection.
The reason I say that, is because, at the Great White Throne Judgement, God will separate the Goats from the Sheep. We see the word Sheep, so even then, God provides yet another opportunity for some to not perish. The depth of Gods love is beyond comprehension.

Yes, the great white throne judgment of sheep and goats is also found in Matthew 25.

His coming again will be a glorious return.
Bad news for the unbelieving and the wicked, but great news for us who believe.
This is the Day of Judgment where the destinies of all are finalized.
When God sends Christ again, He will judge the world in righteousness, Acts 17:31.
The God of all the earth and heaven will always do what is right, as Abraham so said.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - New King James Version

The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins - “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise...

www.biblegateway.com

The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations​

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Before His return we are living in the age of Grace. This age is coming to an end. In this age God has poured out His spirit to all mankind. Jesus says that apart from repentance, one cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. If we, however, confess that Jesus is our Lord before men, than Jesus will confess us before the Father that we belong to Him.

The above has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

In this age, unless one repents and receives salvation from our Savior, than that one will remain in the grave and not enter, while awaiting the Judgment. "...whosoever..." repents gets saved. It's not a selection on the part of God, but rather by choice and faith by whosoever believes.

So then I DID properly understand your vague statement.

At Jesus return, at His appearance, He will call His elect unto Himself, and the age of Grace ends, in other words, for those who remain within the 1000 years, it will no longer be repentance and choice, but rather by Gods choice and selection.
The reason I say that, is because, at the Great White Throne Judgement, God will separate the Goats from the Sheep. We see the word Sheep, so even then, God provides yet another opportunity for some to not perish. The depth of Gods love is beyond comprehension.

So could you please exegete the two passages I posted and explain
WHY Jesus is wrong in His statement?
And WHY Paul is wrong in his statement?

Thanks.

Here they are again: The righteous and the wicked are judged ON THE SAME DAY.


Acts 24:15-16
14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.


(clearly there is one resurrection of BOTH the righteous and the wicked).


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

(clearly there is only one resurrection of both those that did good deeds and those who committed evil deeds).

 

[Writer]

Yes of both, but not at the same time. We're not talking fleshly bodies being raised here. As Jesus when He rose from His grave He was in His new body. A body that could walk through walls and at the same time have the appearance of a perfect man. We also, will get new bodies and be like Him. The dead will rise as soul's from the grave, the way Samuel appeared to Saul when the seer he hired raised Samuel the prophet from the grave, and he said: "who is this that awakens me from the my slumber". Indicating that he was not to be interupted from his time of rising in the judgement of the Lord. But we know what happened to Samuel the prophet. Jesus set the captives free.