"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

And they were baptized in Jesus' Name. No other way.

Yes, and this was not a recitation of a standard set of words, but a response based upon the fact that they understood the Apostolic Gospel which included a proper understanding of "the THINGS concerning the Name of Jesus Christ" Acts 8:12. This would involve the full range of teaching of who Jesus was, his mission, his teaching as a whole, the meaning and result of the death and resurrection of Jesus and his exaltation to the right hand of God and other matters. And Acts 4:8-12 is a good example of this teaching. Even the Name of Jesus seems to be compounded from "Yah's Salvation". Yes, all of this is summarised by "Jesus; Name". Is that what you are claiming and insisting?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[NotTheRock]

Notice Jesus said, "... but whoever does not believe will be condemned." He didn't say whoever does not get baptized will be condemned. So why did He command the believer to get baptized, and then not... show without water baptism also along with unbelief will cause condemnation?

The answer to that should be simple, if you recall the malefactor crucified with Jesus who believed on Him and His Kingdom. The malefactor admitted that he was a sinner, yet he believed on Lord Jesus, even while hanging on his cross. Did that malefactor have the opportunity to come down off his cross and get water baptized? No, of course not. So do you think Jesus still has the Power to save in that situation? I'd hate to have to answer Lord Jesus at His coming when He asks why we don't believe He has the Power to save without the ritual of water baptism.

Thus the way we are to think of it is this: Jesus Himself got baptized of water by John the Baptist. So Lord Jesus set the example of water baptism for us, and we have no excuse if we are able to get baptized. But someone who believes on Jesus on their deathbed, and isn't able to get water baptized, Jesus still has the Power to save. So it's not up to us. It's up to our Lord Jesus, it's HIS decision, not ours.

As for baptism by The Holy Spirit, that is a different matter, because The New Testament shows some received The Holy Spirit before they were baptized of water, and others that had only John's baptism hadn't received The Holy Spirit until they had heard about Christ's death and resurrection, and then they were immediately (by hearing The Gospel) baptized of The Spirit. It does not say they went and had water baptism again.

So I'd recommend the believer go get baptized of water, just to make sure.

Water baptism definitely marks you as belonging to Jesus Christ.

Even though I was raised in the Christian Church, I didn't get baptized until I turned 40. I always believed, but only once I got baptized at 40 did The Holy Spirit hit me and started opening up His Word in my understanding. Before my baptism, I don't know how many times I had tried to study and understand God's Word but it was like a foreign language to me, even when reading it in my natural language of birth (English).

Thanks brother!

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Davy,

Even though I was raised in the Christian Church, I didn't get baptized until I turned 40.

We do not have an open fellowship, and discourage interested friends from attending the Sunday Morning Memorial Meeting and the Wednesday Night Bible Class. They usually attend the Sunday Evening Public Lecture teaching mainly various aspects of the Apostolic Gospel until they are baptised and then they are welcomed in as members of the Ecclesia.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

Yes, and this was not a recitation of a standard set of words, but a response based upon the fact that they understood the Apostolic Gospel which included a proper understanding of "the THINGS concerning the Name of Jesus Christ" Acts 8:12. This would involve the full range of teaching of who Jesus was, his mission, his teaching as a whole, the meaning and result of the death and resurrection of Jesus and his exaltation to the right hand of God and other matters. And Acts 4:8-12 is a good example of this teaching. Even the Name of Jesus seems to be compounded from "Yah's Salvation". Yes, all of this is summarised by "Jesus; Name". Is that what you are claiming and insisting?

Kind regards
Trevor

Yah? Are you referring to Matt's Yahavah that's in no Christian Bible?

 

[NotTheRock]

We do not have an open fellowship,

Fellowship is for faithful followers, not for worldly people who may not necessarily be of the flock, so to speak. Is my understanding correct? I believe it is a prudent, wise, and Biblical approach.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

Yah? Are you referring to Matt's Yahavah that's in no Christian Bible?

I do not know what your particular problem is here. What is your definition of a "Christian Bible"? Do you ever use such resources as Strong's Concordance and other similar resources? I suggest that it is reasonably obvious that Jesus' Name contains the Hebrew word for salvation.
Matthew 1:21 (KJV): And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

But the Name Jesus or Joshua not only contains the Hebrew word for "salvation", but it is also prefixed with an abbreviated form of the YHWH Name.:
Numbers 13:16 (KJV): These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

Is your difficulty here something to do with your many threads that insist on the "Name Jesus"? You have so far avoided my question on this constant repetition and insistence.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

I do not know what your particular problem is here.

Bible attackers preaching Yah and Yahavah! Instead of Jesus!

What is your definition of a "Christian Bible"?

Well, we have many English Bibles and they all agree Jesus is God and Hell Fire is everlasting.

Do you ever use such resources as Strong's Concordance and other similar resources? I suggest that it is reasonably obvious that Jesus' Name contains the Hebrew word for salvation.
Matthew 1:21 (KJV): And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

But the Name Jesus or Joshua not only contains the Hebrew word for "salvation", but it is also prefixed with an abbreviated form of the YHWH Name.:
Numbers 13:16 (KJV): These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.

You're a Hebrew expert? Not likely. Lots of self professed Greek and Hebrew experts try to rewrite our Christian Bible. Is that what you're trying to do?

Is your difficulty here something to do with your many threads that insist on the "Name Jesus"?

Of course I INSIST on the Name of Jesus. That's what Christianity is all about.

You have so far avoided my question on this constant repetition and insistence.

Kind regards
Trevor

So try again. I'll be glad to answer with Bible.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Jack,

Bible attackers.

I am not attacking the Bible.

Well, we have many English Bibles and they all agree Jesus is God and Hell Fire is everlasting.

We may differ on how we understand some details here, but this is NOT a matter of whether or not someone accepts the "Christian Bible". I endorse ALL English Bibles, but sometimes compare various translations of a word or verse. I read from a KJV/RV Interlinear Bible and often have the NASB available for ready reference.

You're a Hebrew expert? Not likely. Lots of self professed Greek and Hebrew experts try to rewrite our Christian Bible. Is that what you're trying to do?

No, but I understand that Hebrew Names often have a meaning, suitable often to the person's character or circumstance. Some of these reference books are useful to determine this meaning. Why did Moses alter Oshea's Name to Joshua?

Of course I INSIST on the Name of Jesus. That's what Christianity is all about.

Do you reject "Yah Oshea", "Yahweh's Salvation"?

So try again. I'll be glad to answer with Bible.

Possibly you are a KJV only adherent.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jack]

Greetings again Jack,

I am not attacking the Bible.

We may differ on how we understand some details here, but this is NOT a matter of whether or not someone accepts the "Christian Bible". I endorse ALL English Bibles, but sometimes compare various translations of a word or verse. I read from a KJV/RV Interlinear Bible and often have the NASB available for ready reference.

No, but I understand that Hebrew Names often have a meaning, suitable often to the person's character or circumstance. Some of these reference books are useful to determine this meaning. Why did Moses alter Oshea's Name to Joshua?

Do you reject "Yah Oshea", "Yahweh's Salvation"?

Possibly you are a KJV only adherent.

Kind regards
Trevor

I've studied many English Bibles. They all say Jesus is God, Hell Fire is FOREVER, only a FEW will be saved and the Bible is God's Word.

 

[Taken]

Was Jesus referring to water baptism or spiritual baptism? I'm thinking it's the latter. What do you believe?

Spiritual.

Water will cleanse the Stink.
… visual satisfaction for natural man
Holy Spirit will cleanse the Sin.
… spiritual satisfaction for Spirit, ie. God

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Greetings Davy,

We do not have an open fellowship, and discourage interested friends from attending the Sunday Morning Memorial Meeting and the Wednesday Night Bible Class. They usually attend the Sunday Evening Public Lecture teaching mainly various aspects of the Apostolic Gospel until they are baptised and then they are welcomed in as members of the Ecclesia.

Kind regards
Trevor

Standard ops for denominational thinking, but not for Christ's real Church. The real Church is of The Spirit, and cannot be limited to men's concepts of administration. A believer on Jesus Christ should be welcomed in all of Christ's Churches, regardless of the denomination or its individual creeds.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

A believer on Jesus Christ should be welcomed in all of Christ's Churches, regardless of the denomination or its individual creeds.

An example is the teaching concerning the Kingdom of God. We strongly believe in the return of Christ to sit upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for 1000 years, ruling over a significant remnant of converted natural Israel and over the nations in subjection and learning the ways of God. We believe in the resurrection of the faithful to rule with Christ over the nations for the 1000 years.

As a result we do not fellowship, say a Baptist who "believes on Jesus Christ", if he professes heaven going at death, and that this somehow fulfils the concept of the Kingdom of God. He could for a while sit in our Memorial Meeting but we would not share with him the bread and wine, but we would encourage him to attend our Sunday Evening meeting to learn concerning the Bible teaching concerning the Kingdom of God.

My earliest girlfriend decided not to attend one of our Young People's Weekends when she was informed that she would not be offered the bread and wine. She was an unbaptised Church of England believer on Jesus Christ and had been "confirmed", possibly at the age of 12. Through a number of other circumstances the relationship did not develop, though I still hold a strong feeling for her. Years later I was at the front of my parent's home with three of my four children when a wedding car passed with her on the way to her wedding with her father and I waved to her. I hope she has had a blessed life.

My daughter and son-in-law relocated to a regional area and found themselves in isolation from our fellowship. They started to attend a local Baptist Church but were to some extent ostracised because of their beliefs and they felt uncomfortable. They were extremely harassed by one member who used to say "I have a message for you" and would spout nonsense believing that she was guided by the Holy Spirit. The outcome was that they no longer attended.

I am often at the door of our meeting as I often have to operate the video equipment, but I have never had the responsibility of denying anyone the fellowship.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Davy,

An example is the teaching concerning the Kingdom of God. We strongly believe in the return of Christ to sit upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem for 1000 years, ruling over a significant remnant of converted natural Israel and over the nations in subjection and learning the ways of God. We believe in the resurrection of the faithful to rule with Christ over the nations for the 1000 years.

As a result we do not fellowship, say a Baptist who "believes on Jesus Christ", if he professes heaven going at death, and that this somehow fulfils the concept of the Kingdom of God. He could for a while sit in our Memorial Meeting but we would not share with him the bread and wine, but we would encourage him to attend our Sunday Evening meeting to learn concerning the Bible teaching concerning the Kingdom of God.

My earliest girlfriend decided not to attend one of our Young People's Weekends when she was informed that she would not be offered the bread and wine. She was an unbaptised Church of England believer on Jesus Christ and had been "confirmed", possibly at the age of 12. Through a number of other circumstances the relationship did not develop, though I still hold a strong feeling for her. Years later I was at the front of my parent's home with three of my four children when a wedding car passed with her on the way to her wedding with her father and I waved to her. I hope she has had a blessed life.

My daughter and son-in-law relocated to a regional area and found themselves in isolation from our fellowship. They started to attend a local Baptist Church but were to some extent ostracised because of their beliefs and they felt uncomfortable. They were extremely harassed by one member who used to say "I have a message for you" and would spout nonsense believing that she was guided by the Holy Spirit. The outcome was that they no longer attended.

I am often at the door of our meeting as I often have to operate the video equipment, but I have never had the responsibility of denying anyone the fellowship.

Kind regards
Trevor

Holding communion with Christ is another thing; it CAN... be performed in the HOME. That is something no denomination has authority to refuse to a baptized Christian.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

Holding communion with Christ is another thing; it CAN... be performed in the HOME.

Yes, but we are encouraged to fellowship with the faithful and gain encouragement from their participation. Even in a meeting we are directly in fellowship with Jesus first.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[amigo de christo]

Greetings again Davy,

Yes, but we are encouraged to fellowship with the faithful and gain encouragement from their participation. Even in a meeting we are directly in fellowship with Jesus first.

Kind regards
Trevor

And if any be in a known sin , there will be no fellowship with such .
Did you know that is actually biblical . yet why come i see married gay men and married gay women
sitting in churches . Pretty obvious that is sin . Should have been corrected too .
Or how about that love of money that prosperity nar realm is all about . T hus i dont keep f ellowship with that mess .
The sooner the church starts actually looking out for its peoples
rather than looking out for its own survival and money making , THE FAR better off they had been .
Leaven just loves to LEAVEN
and a little error sure can and sure will bring and beget ONLY MORE ERROR till the whole be leavened .
Correction needs to make a fast comeback in them churches .
And bibles need to be picked up and read again . Hope that encourages you my friend

 

[shepherdsword]

If we insert baptism into the verse as a requirement for salvation we must also insert seeing him as a requirement as well

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Davy,

Yes, but we are encouraged to fellowship with the faithful and gain encouragement from their participation. Even in a meeting we are directly in fellowship with Jesus first.

Kind regards
Trevor

Let me say that again -- Holding communion with Christ is another thing; it CAN... be performed in the HOME. Ever hear of home Churches? As more and more Christian Churches become corrupted the closer to the time of false-Messiah's coming, home Church like it was in the early disciple's day is how it will be. So all these big Church buildings and cathedrals will all be for naught at the end when false-Messiah comes to take over the earth.

 

[Davy]

If we insert baptism into the verse as a requirement for salvation we must also insert seeing him as a requirement as well

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That's legalism.

Jesus was using that as an expression for understanding Who He is, God The Son. If He had meant that "seeth" literally, then it would mean ONLY those at His 1st coming that actually saw Him in the flesh, could be saved.

 

[Davy]

And if any be in a known sin , there will be no fellowship with such .
Did you know that is actually biblical . yet why come i see married gay men and married gay women
sitting in churches . Pretty obvious that is sin . Should have been corrected too .
Or how about that love of money that prosperity nar realm is all about . T hus i dont keep f ellowship with that mess .
The sooner the church starts actually looking out for its peoples
rather than looking out for its own survival and money making , THE FAR better off they had been .
Leaven just loves to LEAVEN
and a little error sure can and sure will bring and beget ONLY MORE ERROR till the whole be leavened .
Correction needs to make a fast comeback in them churches .
And bibles need to be picked up and read again . Hope that encourages you my friend

Yes, and those churches that promote such an atmosphere I deem as beth-avens, what God in the Hebrew called a 'house of vanity'. The insertion of the idea about 'fellowship' by TrevorHL is just a ruse to get off the real matter that your above post mentions.

 

[amigo de christo]

If we insert baptism into the verse as a requirement for salvation we must also insert seeing him as a requirement as well

Jn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

so why am i hearing about how all these other false relgioins , like muhammed and b udda and etc
Serving the same GOD we christians do .
IM
POSS
IBLE .
I mean if they all served the same GOD we do , WHY DO THEY NOT BELIEVE ON HIS CHRIST and FOLLOW HIM as we do .
Exactly . Slaves to satan is all them false religoins are my friend .
This sheep gonna expose the HARLOT and her ecumincal interfaith , IF even ,
Yes IF EVEN it costs me my life . JESUS preaching time in the building . WE have a real gospel to defend
cause a whore has brought us a false one that wont be sav ing squat .