How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

--- PARODY ---

Christian forum discussion Isms.

Christian #1: I can see what's wrong with you.
Christian #2: What is it?
Christian #1: You're a Calvinist.
Christian #2: Isn't everyone, to some degree?
Christian #1: I'm not.
Christian #2: That's because you are a Trinitarian Premillennialist
Christian #1: What about your Protestant Inerrantism?
Christian #2: Better than your Humanist Episcopalian Sacramentalism
Christian #1: Arian Unitarian Adventist Arminian
Christian #2: Liberal anti-Reformed Zionist Anti-Evangelical Secularist
Christian #1: IDK-IROOI
Christian #2: Say what?
Christian #1: I Don't Know - I Ran Out of Isms
Christian #2: LOL
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Lambano

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
10,005
12,781
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I thought I needed to straighten out everybody's bad doctrine. Definitely an underappreciated talent.
Reminds me of a Calvin and Hobbes cartoon; I'll see if Google can find it.

It goes something like this: Calvin is sitting outside with his stuffed tiger at a folding table. The sign on the table says, "GOOD SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT, $1.00". Calvin's nemesis Susie comes up and ask's "How's business?" Calvin replies, "Not so good, and I don't understand why not. Everybody I know needs what I'm selling."
 
  • Haha
Reactions: St. SteVen

St. SteVen

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2023
18,269
6,823
113
71
Minneapolis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It goes something like this: Calvin is sitting outside with his stuffed tiger at a folding table. The sign on the table says, "GOOD SWIFT KICK IN THE BUTT, $1.00". Calvin's nemesis Susie comes up and ask's "How's business?" Calvin replies, "Not so good, and I don't understand why not. Everybody I know needs what I'm selling."
1763401209707.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: Lambano

Hiddenthings

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2025
3,777
415
83
Leeton NSW
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
What is unique about this new creation is that Yahweh purposed to bring forth a Son who would fully embody His Logos and yet arise from among humanity. The Lord’s existence is therefore grounded in both God and man, which makes any notion of his personal pre-existence impossible. Even the least who will inherit the Kingdom understood the meaning of ‘Son of David.’ They needed no theological training to know that a Saviour would come by promise, not by pre-existence. @Brakelite @Lambano @St. SteVen

And what of the Canaanite woman, who recognized him as both the promised (seed) Son of David and as “Lord”, a confession that surpassed even that of the Jews, as seen in Matthew 22:41–46?

If it were proven true that Jesus was a created being whose life began as ours does, what would the implications be for Christianity?
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,208
6,184
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Hell is real! But…..the topic can be confusing, because of that the Jehovah's Witnesses and others that try to use the confusion to deny it’s existence. But Hell is real…..so let’s straighten this out. Hear are some facts….

1. Hell is not mentioned in the Old Testament.

2. The understanding of an eternal fiery place of eternal punishment did not exist during the Old Testament period.

3. Some Christians did not understand why Hell was not in the Old Testament.

4. So they put it there with some of the older translational processes.

5. Some times they used the word Hades. Hades is a Greek word, it cannot be in a Hebrew text. Hades is a Greek god and reigned over an underworld of the same name. No fire.

6. Hell was new information in the New Testament so there was no word for an eternal fiery place of punishment. The word Hell comes out in the 8th century….Anglo-Saxon-German.

7. Because there was no word for Hell Yeshua and the Apostles referenced it in different ways….explanations and examples like Gehenna. They also used the Greek word Hades and changed what it meant. Like I said, Hades is a Greek god that reigned over an underworld of the same name.

8. Hell is real!

Scriptures pertaining to Hell.
Matthew 5:22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the Gehenna of fire.

Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into Gehenna.

Matthew 8:12 While the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of Gehenna as yourselves.

Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to Gehenna?

Matthew 24:51 And will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to Gehenna, to the unquenchable fire.

Mark 9:45 And if your foot offend you, cut if off: it is better to you to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Gehenna, into the fire that never shall be quenched.

Mark 9:48 where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 3:17 His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

Luke 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I tell you, fear him!

Luke 16:19-31 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

2nd Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; Tartarus means deep abyss.

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 1:18 And the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Revelation 14:10 He also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15--- 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

You can look the scriptures up and see what word was actually used.
 
Last edited:

MonoBiblical

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2024
1,560
257
83
52
midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
5. Some times they used the word Hades. Hades is a Greek word, it cannot be in a Hebrew text. Hades is a Greek god and reigned over an underworld of the same name. No fire.
HADES is a noun which means seen so not as to be understood.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,208
6,184
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
HADES is a noun which means seen so not as to be understood.

Hades in the ancient Greek religion and mythology, is the god of the dead and riches and the King of the underworld, with which his name became synonymous. Hades was the eldest son of Cronus and Rhea, although this also made him the last son to be regurgitated by his father. He and his brothers, Zeus and Poseidon, defeated, overthrew, and replaced their father's generation of gods, the Titans, and claimed joint sovereignty over the cosmos. Hades received the underworld, Zeus the sky, and Poseidon the sea, with the solid earth, which was long the domain of Gaia, available to all three concurrently.
 

MonoBiblical

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2024
1,560
257
83
52
midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hades in the ancient Greek religion and mythology, is the god of the dead and riches and the King of the underworld, with which his name became synonymous. Hades was the eldest son of Cronus and Rhea, although this also made him the last son to be regurgitated by his father. He and his brothers, Zeus and Poseidon, defeated, overthrew, and replaced their father's generation of gods, the Titans, and claimed joint sovereignty over the cosmos. Hades received the underworld, Zeus the sky, and Poseidon the sea, with the solid earth, which was long the domain of Gaia, available to all three concurrently.
It is just a name and a noun first.
 

MonoBiblical

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2024
1,560
257
83
52
midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Looking at it from the grammar stand point is fine, but the word has meaning in the Greek language.

If you are Jehovah’s Witness go talk to some one else.
It has the same definition as sheol. What is either not seen or is seen so as not to understand. The rich man was in hades because that is what he deserved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: St. SteVen

Hiddenthings

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2025
3,777
415
83
Leeton NSW
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Looking at it from the grammar stand point is fine, but the word has meaning in the Greek language.

If you are Jehovah’s Witness go talk to some one else.
Nearly all the ideas associated with Hades stem from mythology; in fact, much of Christian doctrine, perhaps 90%, is infused with such mythological notions. And when you ask someone to prove their notions from the Bible they copy and paste a verse and thats it.
 

MonoBiblical

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2024
1,560
257
83
52
midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Nearly all the ideas associated with Hades stem from mythology; in fact, much of Christian doctrine, perhaps 90%, is infused with such mythological notions. And when you ask someone to prove their notions from the Bible they copy and paste a verse and thats it.
And?
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,208
6,184
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
It has the same definition as sheol. What is either not seen or is seen so as not to understand. The rich man was in hades because that is what he deserved.

The rich man was not in the Greek underworld and Sheol does not have king or Greek god ruling over it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MonoBiblical