Is God Magnanimous? - (as opposed to tyrannical)

[Lizbeth]

Just because we are at odds over our doctrinal opinions
doesn't mean that I don't have spiritual understanding.
Nor does it mean that I haven't been born again or received the Holy Spirit.
The opinion of too many on this forum is that I am "lost".
Simply because I don't agree with their narrow views.

Not at all, it's because you don't agree with God's word. And you argue from your own reasonings and feelings most of the time, not from scripture. What scripture you do bring, you aren't rightly dividing in view of the whole counsel of God.

Your views nullify and completely water down the stern warnings of scripture, which are for our good if we would only receive them instead of arguing them away.......and that is something you will give an account to the Lord for.

 

[St. SteVen]

Oh for sure they will not have any doubts at all when that time comes, however, it will be too late for faith and to receive Christ because time will have run out. The coming of the Lord IS the judgment for unbelievers, and redemption for those who do believe. "Blessed are you who have not seen and yet believe."

That's the typical narrow view that does not take into account the real situation outside of the myopic evangelical mindset.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when
God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ,
as my gospel declares.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not at all, it's because you don't agree with God's word.

Why do you put superiority on your OPINIONS about what the Bible means?

 

[St. SteVen]

What scripture you do bring, you aren't rightly dividing in view of the whole counsel of God.

What you call "the whole counsel of God" is tossing out the scriptures you don't agree with.
I do it too, but you won't admit it.

Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?​

...something I find interesting. My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view". Seems that saw should cut both ways. What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what...

Examining the supposed "Whole Bible" view. - No consensus?​

As a follow-up to this previous topic... In BIBLE we trust? - Misplaced allegiance? Seems too many make an idol of their personal interpretation of the Bible. Claiming theirs is the only truth and that others are "of the devil" because their view differs. What's wrong with this picture...

 

[ProDeo]

The Logos.
It had always been part of the plan.
Coupled with redemption. (the solution)

I would say the origin of sin is free will.

Before someone (not you) will say, does that mean God is the author of sin, then I will say, of course not.

 

[ProDeo]

Depends on how you see mercy Pro.

For example, if mercy is understood as withholding punishment or restoring a relationship broken by sin, then no, mercy would not be necessary for the immortalized saints in whom God will dwell. Eternal beings will no longer have a sinful, mortal nature. God’s divine nature cannot sin, so in that state there would be no need for mercy.

But if we assume, for the sake of argument, the false teaching that divine angels can sin, and that your own eternal reward carries the same possibility, then yes, I can understand why you could believe you’d still need His mercy.

What in your opinion will happen with people who die and never heard the Gospel ?

Will God have mercy on those ?

 

[St. SteVen]

I would say the origin of sin is free will.

Before someone (not you) will say, does that mean God is the author of sin, then I will say, of course not.

I agree.
See post #479

 

[ProDeo]

I agree.
I'm not saying that God CAUSED sin to happen, but that He ALLOWED it to happen. (free will)
Without sin there is no redemption. The whole plan was in the Logos.

Free will, exactly, one step further.

When God created A&E, did He foreknew they would fall ?

Scripture says yes, Rev 13:8, 1 Peter 1:20

He even gave the solution (Jesus, the Lamb slain) before He created A&E and the billions after them.

A high price for equipping us with free will, sacrificing a part of Himself.

What a love........

 

[Wrangler]

I have the view that sin has no cause.

Absurd.

Not at all, it's because you don't agree with God's word. And you argue from your own reasonings and feelings most of the time, not from scripture. What scripture you do bring, you aren't rightly dividing in view of the whole counsel of God.

This is not the actions or motivations of a witness FOR God. Rather, the constant slander is an accusation AGAINST God.

Very sad.

 

[St. SteVen]

When God created A&E, did He foreknew they would fall ?

Scripture says yes, Rev 13:8, 1 Peter 1:20

Yes.
Again, back to the Logos. (the plan)

And this is a strong point for UR.
The plan included:
- Freewill
- The Fall
- The Atonement
- The redemption of all

Without that, sin is the winner.

 

[St. SteVen]

This is not the actions or motivations of a witness FOR God. Rather, the constant slander is an accusation AGAINST God.

My problem is not with God. My problem is with the evangelical religion that slanders God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes.
Again, back to the Logos. (the plan)

And this is a strong point for UR.
The plan included:
- Freewill
- The Fall
- The Atonement
- The redemption of all

Without that, sin is the winner.

So strange that you just blindly ignore half the plan.

Rom 9:21-23

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Dan 12:2

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.



You think this is all about us, about mankind? NO, it is about God glorifying Himself and showing Himself to be God before the powers and principalities:

Eph 3:9-11

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord


If there is no judgment/condemnation, what need is there for mercy? Mercy is only mercy because there IS judgment. And this verse alone clearly shows that not everyone is appointed to eternal life:

Act 13:48
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[quietthinker]

Every knee will bow and every tongue confess when they see the Lord coming in all His glory with their own eyes, but it will be too late for them then. As someone else already pointed out, even the devil believes because he has seen the Lord, but it isn't doing him one lick of good is it? It will be the same for the children of the devil then. It has to be by FAITH to be saved (not by sight or one's own mental belief). Because faith is not of our own but is by His Spirit, and it is only His (Christ's) Spirit that shelters us from the wrath. He, His Spirit, is the cleft of the Rock. We must have God as our Father (begotten by Him), not the devil, because then the Lord will pity us as a father pitieth his own children and spares them.

It was too late for the rich man who died and ended up in hell and the story Jesus told about that, wasn't it. He sure did believe then and wanted to warn his brothers, but it was all too late for him, sadly.

What you have going on there is not the Christianity that Christ and the apostles taught. It is HUMANISM disguised and packaged to look like Christianity. We are told in scripture that God's ways and His thoughts are not man's ways and thoughts, they are much higher......and that the way that seemeth right to man leads to death.

An admission of what is true does not equate with allegiance to it.

 

[quietthinker]

Why do you think it has to be one or the other? He wants friends who know their place, and who willingly/voluntarily serve Him because of knowing who He is.

I think he created us in his image because he desires friends and friendship....which I guess is a privilege over other creations.
I mean, servants don't have the same status as children let alone any talk of inheritance.

Jesus tells us in John 15:15
'I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.'

 

[Hiddenthings]

What in your opinion will happen with people who die and never heard the Gospel ?

Will God have mercy on those ?

What will happen to the people who were called, chosen and rejected at the judgement?

 

[quietthinker]

What will happen to the people who were called, chosen and rejected at the judgement?

All are called and chosen of which Judas serves as an example. These called, these chosen have judged the God of Grace unworthy of their company. In other words it is they who have rejected God; they have determined their own destiny by their own hand.

 

[Hiddenthings]

All are called and chosen of which Judas serves as an example.

Incorrect.

Acts 15:14: “Simeon hath declared how God at the first did (1) visit the Gentiles, (2) to take (3) out of them (4) a people for his name.”

Not all Gentiles will come to a knowledge of God or the Gospel only those He determines should be first called, then chosen and finally accepted or rejected like your Judas example.

Here is the process clearly given:

1. Visitation
2. Invitation
3. Separation
4. Dedication

@ProDeo Whether we’re speaking of the Old Testament or the New, the process has always been the same, whether it was Israel, the foreigner among them, or anyone who chose to join themselves to God and learn His ways.

If you want me to expand on each of these four steps - happy to do so anytime!

 

[Hiddenthings]

@quietthinker I've noticed a number of times your reading of the Acts of the Apostles is not very good. You will recall this is another verse you stumbled over

Acts 2:23 “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

This also aligns with:

Romans 8:32 “He (God) who did not spare his own Son but gave him (Jesus) up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?”

Christ was God's offering for the atonement for sin.

Let me spell it out clearly Quiet:

If God offered His own Son as the sacrifice for sin, and perfected him through suffering, then anything else we need for salvation, endurance, or eternal life is minor by comparison.

But if you reject God's offering what is left for you?

These principles are unfamiliar to you because your foundation is built on human opinions rather than on God's Inspired Word.

I've pitied you from the beginning and still do.

Some in this forum understand the meaning the above verses such as @Wrangler but very few here know God or the True Christ.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@quietthinker I've noticed a number of times your reading of the Acts of the Apostles is not very good. You will recall this is another verse you stumbled over

Acts 2:23 “this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.”

@quietthinker

If I could present you with undeniable evidence of this foreknowledge and counsel, would you accept it?

 

[quietthinker]

Incorrect.

Acts 15:14: “Simeon hath declared how God at the first did (1) visit the Gentiles, (2) to take (3) out of them (4) a people for his name.”

Not all Gentiles will come to a knowledge of God or the Gospel only those He determines should be first called, then chosen and finally accepted or rejected like your Judas example.

Here is the process clearly given:

1. Visitation
2. Invitation
3. Separation
4. Dedication

@ProDeo Whether we’re speaking of the Old Testament or the New, the process has always been the same, whether it was Israel, the foreigner among them, or anyone who chose to join themselves to God and learn His ways.

If you want me to expand on each of these four steps - happy to do so anytime!

The Good News is for the whole progeny of Adam.
'As in Adam all die, so in Christ will all be made alive'. 1 Corinthians 15:22

All people are gifted life in Jesus in spite of the death inherited through Adam.
What comes out in the wash is that not all people will want to align themselves with the principles of life, ie the gift given.

Consider Lucifer; given privilege yet choosing rebellion.
Consider Judas; given privilege yet choosing betrayal.
Consider the unspeakable gift freely given in Jesus to and for all humanity yet many choosing seductive lies under the banner of 'piety'