8 days, the 8th day leading to a new beginning.

[Davidpt]

Where is this taught in scripture? Absolutely nowhere. I don't know how you can think you should be taken seriously about this when you have absolutely zero scripture to back up what you're saying.


LOL! Where does scripture make the connection between the thousand years and the number of days in the week? Nowhere! This is utterly ridiculous. Is this all you have left to try to debate Amils? If so, then you literally have nothing left. You don't even attempt to refute Amil with scripture anymore, you just resort to complete nonsense like this instead.


What are you even talking about here? How exactly do you intepret that verse?

1 Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Verse 28 here is talking about the point when the last enemy, death, is destroyed, resulting in all of Christ's enemies being put under His feet, including the last enemy, death. How can you think that won't happen on the day Christ returns? If you read 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 you can see that death will be swallowed up in victory at the last trumpet. You understand that Christ will return at the last trumpet, don't you? That's when the last enemy, death, will be defeated/destroyed and swallowed up in victory.


Huh? This is pure nonsense. Where did Paul write anything about the days of the week in 1 Corinthians 15?


LOL! What?!! Where does scripture ever speak of Christ's return or anything in relation to the days of the week? Absolutely nowhwere. This is the weakest argument imaginable. You have NO scripture whatsoever to back up what you're saying here.


And who says otherwise? Absolutely no one. You are so bent on trying to make Amils look bad, that you even try to say that we believe a week consists of 6 days. Talk about desperation! You have run out of arguments. That is clear.


Show me where scripture teaches this. Do you think your words are equal with scripture?


LOL. None of this is taught anywhere in scripture. Have you decided that the truth can be found outside of scripture? What has happened to you?

Maybe Premil nor Amil is the solution? Maybe Postmil is? Should that be what I should conclude, that Christ's bodily return is still at least 1K years away? Don't Amils insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming? Doesn't Postmil also insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming? If Premil can't work, according to you. And that Amil can't work, according to me. What's left if not Postmil?

There is going to be 7K years that precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28 no matter how you look at it. Either Christ is going to be bodily present during the the 7th thousand years, thus the 7th day, therefore, Premil. Or Christ is not going to be bodily present during the 7th thousand years, thus the 7th day, therefore, Postmil.

Looks like Amil is out of luck as a valid option since Amil can't work if 7K years must precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28.

Once again, it is absurd that a week only consists of 6 days rather than 7. It's equally absurd that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of a current week. The pattern since the beginning of time is that a week consists of 7 days, not 6 days. And that the 7th day is always the end of a week, never the beginning of a new week. From Adam through now it's been nearly 6K years, thus 6 days if one has 1K years representing a day. But Amil wants to break this cycle and insist a week only involves 6 days and that the 7th day is not the end of a week but is the beginning of a new week.

 

[Davidpt]

LOL. None of this is taught anywhere in scripture. Have you decided that the truth can be found outside of scripture? What has happened to you?

Nothing has happened to me. Unlike some around here I'm simply using common sense that 7K years must precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28, not 6K years instead. A week consists of 7 days not 6 days. 7 comes after 6, and 8 comes after 7. 8 never comes after 6. And that it is perfectly reasonable for a day to represent 1K years. For example. 1000 AD-2000 AD. And in that day, meaning between 1000 AD and 2000 AD, this happened, that happened, so on on and so on. Are you going to argue that 'a day' can't represent this 1k years era of time in question?

When it comes to the Bible, the pattern is that a week consists of 7 days, and that 7 days must pass before a new week can begin. The new beginning would be meaning 1 Corinthian 15:28. Except that can't get fulfilled until 7 days have preceded it first. In this case seven 1K year days.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Maybe Premil nor Amil is the solution?

No, Amil is definitely the solution. It's the truth, but you go out of your way to deny it with ridiculous 7 day week theories and other nonsense that you can't find anywhere in the Bible.

Maybe Postmil is?

Postmils think that everything gets better until the world has been basically Christianized and then Jesus returns at that point. That's definitely not what scripture teaches.

Should that be what I should conclude, that Christ's bodily return is still at least 1K years away?

Why are you asking these ridiculous questions? Do you want to be taken seriously or not? I don't get the sense that you do.

Don't Amils insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming?

Do you seriously not know the answer to that question? If so, your lack of understanding of Amil is even worse than I thought. Of course that's what we believe.

Doesn't Postmil also insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming?

Yeah. So?

If Premil can't work, according to you. And that Amil can't work, according to me. What's left if not Postmil?

Postmil is nonsense. To me, the only viable options are Premil and Amil. I think a big reason you don't accept Amil is that you don't really understand it. That's why you misrepresent it so often.

Why are you Premil? You admit that there are holes in it and you struggle mightily to defend it. Why not just take a neutral stance until you figure this out, if you ever do?

There is going to be 7K years that precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28 no matter how you look at it.

Where are you getting that from in scripture? Have you given up on supporting your beliefs with scripture? There is absolutely NOTHING about 7K years written in scripture.

Either Christ is going to be bodily present during the the 7th thousand years, thus the 7th day, therefore, Premil. Or Christ is not going to be bodily present during the 7th thousand years, thus the 7th day, therefore, Postmil.

What in the world are you talking about? You are just making up this 7 thousand year thing. You can't find it in scripture. Why are you acting as if this 7 thousand year theory you made up in your imagination is actually taught somewhere in scripture?

Looks like Amil is out of luck as a valid option since Amil can't work if 7K years must precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28.

Who cares if Amil can't work with your made up ridiculous 7K year theory? That means nothing. Stick to scripture if you want to be taken seriously.

Once again, it is absurd that a week only consists of 6 days rather than 7.

LOL!!! Who says otherwise? I think you have lost it. I don't know what has happened to you.

It's equally absurd that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of a current week.

Who claims that? This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. You're speaking complete nonsense.

The pattern since the beginning of time is that a week consists of 7 days, not 6 days. And that the 7th day is always the end of a week, never the beginning of a new week. From Adam through now it's been nearly 6K years, thus 6 days if one has 1K years representing a day. But Amil wants to break this cycle and insist a week only involves 6 days and that the 7th day is not the end of a week but is the beginning of a new week.

LOL! None of what you're saying is taught in scripture. I can't take this nonsense seriously. This nonsense results in you making absurd claims like Amil claiming that a week only involves 6 days, which is simply not true. This is the most ludicrous nonsense I've ever seen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing has happened to me. Unlike some around here I'm simply using common sense

You have decided to use your supposed common sense to determine your biblical doctrine instead of the Bible itself. Unbelievable. I'll tell you what has happened to you. You used to try to actually defend your doctrine with scripture. It looks like you have given up on that and have now resorted to wild theories from your imagination instead. There's definitely NOTHING anywhere in the Bible about this 7 thousand year theory you're trying to promote.

 

[PinSeeker]

Maybe Premil nor Amil is the solution? Maybe Postmil is?

No, but post-millennialism is closer to correct regarding the timing of the millennium, that it is prior to the second coming of Christ, but like pre-millennialists, they too are futurists, holding that God's millennium has not yet begun. As I have said, God's millennium cannot be merely future only, because Gentiles have been (for two millennia) and are still (to this day) coming to Christ. Every Gentile Christian is proof that nations ~ Gentile people groups ~ are no longer deceived and that we are in the midst of God's millennium.

Should that be what I should conclude, that Christ's bodily return is still at least 1K years away?

No, because it may be tomorrow... or five minutes from now... <smile>

Don't Amils insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming?

Yes. <smile>

Doesn't Postmil also insist the millennium precedes the 2nd coming?

Yes. <smile> But... and you get it... post-millennialists believe God's entire millennium to be future only, which... is not correct. See above.

If Premil can't work, according to you. And that Amil can't work, according to me. What's left if not Postmil?

Well, you'd have to explain to me why you think "Amil can't work." Maybe you have to SI, so if there's a post of yours that answers this question above, point me to it and I'll be happy to comment on it...

There is going to be 7K years that precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28 no matter how you look at it.

Ah, well, maybe, or somwhere just north of that, like maybe about 10,000, but that's speculation on both our parts, really.

Either Christ is going to be bodily present during the the 7th thousand years.

See... you don't mean to be, I think, but you're kind of date-setting, here David. We cannot know the time that God has allotted to "make all things new" through Christ, as He says in Revelation 21:5. But He will... is... and our place as Christians is to be watchfull and ready, right?

, thus the 7th day, therefore, Premil.

Ugh... <smile>

Or Christ is not going to be bodily present during the 7th thousand years, thus the 7th day, therefore, Postmil.

Ugh... <smile>

Looks like Amil is out of luck as a valid option since Amil can't work if 7K years must precede the fulfilling of 1 Corinthians 15:28.

Ugh... <smile> See above.

Is this really all there is to your reasoning, David? I mean, this is analogous to what some folks hold to regarding God's act of creation ~ what we call the Day-Age theory, that each 'day' of creation corresponds to ages of certain lengths of time...

Once again, it is absurd that a week only consists of 6 days rather than 7. It's equally absurd that the 7th day is the beginning of a new week rather than the end of a current week.

Ah, Daniel 9... So controversial, but it doesn't have to be... No doubt it is a difficult passage, but... <smile> Seven denotes completeness in Scripture, David. Amillennialists ~ well, good amillennialists, anyway <smile> ~ hold that this seventh week is God's millennium. Check this out:

If we assume sensationalism and total futurism up front, then we will never notice anything in the “anointed one” or “prince” other than the shadowy figure that we went looking for. Another look at verses 26 and 27 are appropriate. Storms argues that these “are structured in the poetic style of synonymous (or perhaps synthetic) parallelism in which verse 27 repeats and elaborates the content of verse 26. Thus, events that occur ‘after’ the sixty-ninth week (v. 26) occur ‘in’ the seventieth week (v. 27).”​

​

So... there is an A-B, A-B relationship between the two figures talked about in verses 26 and 27, and not an A-B-C-D movement. As one commentator puts it, “the Messiah or ‘anointed one’ of verse 26a is identical with the ‘He’ of verse 27a, and the ‘prince’ of verse 26b is identical with the ‘one who makes desolate’ of verse 27b, i.e., the Roman general Titus in A.D. 70.”​

​

Now about those numbers, another commentator explains that, "Since the entire prophecy was couched in covenantal imagery and language, the key to the meaning of the ‘sevens’ is to be found in the sabbatical pattern established in Leviticus 25:1-4: ‘The LORD said to Moses on Mount Sinai, ‘Speak to the Israelites and say to them, ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the LORD. For six years sow your fields ... But in the seventh year the land is to have a sabbath of rest.’” In Daniel's prophecy, the first of these sevens (v. 25) comprises seven sabbatical years (forty-nine years total) which constitutes the Jubilee (Leviticus 24:8) in which the ‘seven sabbaths of years amount to a period of forty-nine years.’ This, in turn, preceded the fiftieth year in which liberty was to be proclaimed ‘throughout the land to all of its inhabitants’ (v. 10). The total period of seventy-sevens in Daniel 9:24-27, therefore, constitutes ten jubilee eras, with the emphasis falling on the ultimate jubilee yet to come after 490 years had passed. In other words, the messianic age.”​

​

As to “the most holy place” (v. 24), we should note that the Hebrew qodesh (קֹדֶשׁ) is the adjective that is treated in its substantival use. In other words, the translator must opt either for “most holy” as a noun (as in, “most holy one”) or else supply what they take to be the implied noun. No Hebrew word for place is present in this sentence. The traditional interpretation, following at least from the King James, which leaves the word “place” out, would be this: that Christ is the most holy One, who was anointed both in the earthly type at the baptism (Acts 10:38; Luke 4:34, 41); and then granted that power in heaven (Matthew 28:18; Acts 2:33), the first symbolized by the Spirit descending on Christ; the second symbolized by the Spirit pouring out that anointing, as if overflowing from its King in heaven, to his first subjects (the disciples) below at Pentecost.​

​

Perhaps the two most egregious errors in the dispensationalist handling of this passage are captured by this same commentator: "The insertion of a gap of at least two thousand years between the sixty-ninth and seventieth week is a self-contradictory violation of the dispensationalist's professed literal hermeneutic ... The failure to acknowledge the obvious covenantal context of the messianic covenant maker of verse 27, who confirms a covenant with many, leads dispensationalists to confuse Christ with antichrist. A more serious interpretive error is hard to imagine.”​

​

LINK​

Something to chew on for sure, yeah? <smile>

Grace and peace to you, David.

 

[Davidpt]

Well, you'd have to explain to me why you think "Amil can't work." Maybe you have to SI, so if there's a post of yours that answers this question above, point me to it and I'll be happy to comment on it...

Amil can't work because the pattern for a week since the beginning of time is this---there are 7 days in a week. The 7th day is always the end of that week. There is no such thing as a week consisting of only 6 days, then 7 days later, rather than 8 days later, a new week begins.

All throughout this thread I am simply doing what I always tend to do, and that is, thinking outside of the box.

It can't be a coincedence that if Christ returns roughly 6K years after the fall of Adam, that it is not connected with a pattern of a week. Except 6 days do not make up an entire week, 7 days do. Per this example, where is Amil's missing 7th day? It can't be after Christ returns since Amil has that meaning 1 Corinthians 15:28 at that time. Nowhere in the Bible can a new week begin on the 7th day of the week. It always begins on the 1st day of the week 8 days later. The 7th day is not never ending, but the 8th day would be if 7 1K year days have preceded it first.

Nor can Amil's missing 7th day be meaning during day 5 and 6, meaning the last 2k years. Day 7 on no calendar parallels other days of the week, such as day 5 and 6. Day 7 always follows other days of the week on a calandar and is always meaning, without exception, the last day of the week.

Once again, thinking outside of the box helps explain these things. Some of you should perhaps try it. I'm not implying some of you never think outside of the box. But I am saying some of you are not thinking outside of the box in this case. That's usually caused by doctrinal bias' when one has the ability to think outside of the box but refuses to do so.

A) The first 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

B) The second 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

C) The third 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

D) The fourth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

E) The fifth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

F) The sixth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

Amil has the 7th day, the millennium, paralleling E) and F), rather than following A)-F) like any normal calendar would be doing. Imagine a calendar having 6 day weeks, and that the 7th day is paralleling 2 of those 6 days. Totally preposterous that something like this is logical.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amil can't work because the pattern for a week since the beginning of time is this---there are 7 days in a week. The 7th day is always the end of that week. There is no such thing as a week consisting of only 6 days, then 7 days later, rather than 8 days later, a new week begins.

All throughout this thread I am simply doing what I always tend to do, and that is, thinking outside of the box.

It can't be a coincedence that if Christ returns roughly 6K years after the fall of Adam, that it is not connected with a pattern of a week. Except 6 days do not make up an entire week, 7 days do. Per this example, where is Amil's missing 7th day? It can't be after Christ returns since Amil has that meaning 1 Corinthians 15:28 at that time. Nowhere in the Bible can a new week begin on the 7th day of the week. It always begins on the 1st day of the week 8 days later. The 7th day is not never ending, but the 8th day would be if 7 1K year days have preceded it first.

Nor can Amil's missing 7th day be meaning during day 5 and 6, meaning the last 2k years. Day 7 on no calendar parallels other days of the week, such as day 5 and 6. Day 7 always follows other days of the week on a calandar and is always meaning, without exception, the last day of the week.

Once again, thinking outside of the box helps explain these things. Some of you should perhaps try it. I'm not implying some of you never think outside of the box. But I am saying some of you are not thinking outside of the box in this case. That's usually caused by doctrinal bias' when one has the ability to think outside of the box but refuses to do so.

Your thinking "outside of the box" is a case thinking outside of scripture, which is a bad idea. I don't recommend anyone to do that. You are not saying anything that is actually taught in scripture. Why do you think anyone should take you seriously when that is the case? Nowhere does scripture say anything about this 7 thousand year theory you're promoting that you came up with in your imagination.

 

[PinSeeker]

Amil can't work because the pattern for a week since the beginning of time is this---there are 7 days in a week. The 7th day is always the end of that week. There is no such thing as a week consisting of only 6 days, then 7 days later, rather than 8 days later, a new week begins.

Still on this seven- or eight- day week thing... goodness gracious. Yes, there are seven days in a week. I'm not sure why you apparently think "Amils" think there are eight; I guess it's because some poster on here mentioned something about the eighth day some time back in this thread... Yes, of course, the eighth day after the first day of one week is the first day of the next week (which I said at least once before in this thread). If there's anyone out there who disputes that... Yeah, like I said, goodness gracious.

All throughout this thread I am simply doing what I always tend to do, and that is, thinking outside of the box.

Is that what you call it? <smile> I mean I'd probably put it a little differently, but okay, cool... <smile>

It can't be a coincedence that if Christ returns roughly 6K years after the fall of Adam, that it is not connected with a pattern of a week.

Agreed. But I thought you were saying otherwise, correlating the weeks of Daniel with... ages... of a specified length, namely a thousand earth years, and saying Christ will return... well either before or in or after the seventh... before, I guess, since you're pre-mill, isn't that right? I mean, whatever... I'm totally unconcerned with that...

So, again, I would say to all this that the "pattern of a week" is not relevant... or, rather than not relevant, the week is what it is because of the "pattern" of something else. The number seven denotes completeness throughout the Bible. And we can start with the week... with creation, actually, as God's creative act consisted of six days, and on the seventh He rested. The pattern of seven ~ some folks call it the "haptadic-ness" of Scripture, repeats itself throughout the Bible in various ways regarding various ways... even into Revelation in more than one way... several, actually, just in John's Revelation and the visions given to him by Christ...

Except 6 days do not make up an entire week, 7 days do. Per this example, where is Amil's missing 7th day? It can't be after Christ returns since Amil has that meaning 1 Corinthians 15:28 at that time. Nowhere in the Bible can a new week begin on the 7th day of the week. It always begins on the 1st day of the week 8 days later. The 7th day is not never ending, but the 8th day would be if 7 1K year days have preceded it first.

Nor can Amil's missing 7th day be meaning during day 5 and 6, meaning the last 2k years. Day 7 on no calendar parallels other days of the week, such as day 5 and 6. Day 7 always follows other days of the week on a calandar and is always meaning, without exception, the last day of the week.

Ugh! <smile>

Once again, thinking outside of the box...

I mean, it's outside of... something... I agree with that... <smile>

A) The first 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

B) The second 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

C) The third 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

D) The fourth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

E) The fifth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

F) The sixth 1k years history of humanity = 1 day

Ah, there it is... <smile> Yeah, much like the "Day-Age" theory of God's act of creation, like I said before... And you call that outside a box? I would actually call that inside a box, and a very small one at that. <smile>

Amil has the 7th day, the millennium, paralleling E) and F)...

Imagine a calendar having 6 day weeks, and that the 7th day is paralleling 2 of those 6 days. Totally preposterous that something like this is logical.

Right, that would be quite preposterous, I agree. <smile>

Grace and peace to you, David.

 

[ewq1938]

H8083
שְׁמוֹנָה שְׁמֹנָה שְׁמוֹנֶה שְׁמֹנֶה
shemôneh shemôneh shemônâh shemônâh
(1,2) shem-o-neh', (3,4) shem-o-naw'
Apparently from H8082 through the idea of plumpness; a cardinal number, eight (as if a surplus above the “perfect” seven); also (as ordinal) eighth: - eight ([-een, -eenth]), eighth.
Total KJV occurrences: 109