TWO GOSPELS

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

keithr

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2020
2,003
541
113
Dorset
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
""Paul's words in Romans 15 says "THE gospel of Christ"""
Was that Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?
Speaking of which, notice 1 Corinthians 15:5-11 (WEB):

(5) and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.​
(6) Then he appeared to over five hundred brothers at once, most of whom remain until now, but some have also fallen asleep.​
(7) Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles,​
(8) and last of all, as to the child born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also.​
(9) For I am the least of the apostles, who is not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the assembly of God.​
(10) But by the grace of God I am what I am. His grace which was given to me was not futile, but I worked more than all of them; yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.​
(11) Whether then it is I or they, so we preach, and so you believed.

or
ISV (11) So, whether it was I or the others, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.​
GNB (11) So then, whether it came from me or from them, this is what we all preach, and this is what you believe.​

Paul clearly believed that all the apostles and other Christians who saw the risen Jesus, believed and were preaching the same Gospel!
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
The one and only gospel saves as was preached by Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch.
[Act 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
The eunuch was saved by believing the gospel preached by Peter and here by Philip. They didnt preach the cross for salvation, but only the name of Jesus, that he is Christ the Son of God
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Yes, KJV Gal 2:7-9 confirms it :)
Paul - Gospel OF the UNcirc to the heathen/gentiles >> Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Peter - Gospel OF the circ to the circ>>>>>>>>>>>>>Acts 2:38-45
KJV reads differently says OF big difference
 

DJT_47

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2022
1,544
479
83
Michigan/Sterling Heights
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
[Act 8:37 KJV] "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
The eunuch was saved by believing the gospel preached by Peter and here by Philip. They didnt preach the cross for salvation, but only the name of Jesus, that he is Christ the Son of God
If Philip preached Christ to the eunuch, he preached everything related to Christ and his salvation including the absolute need for baptism as part of the salvation process. Read the entire text.
 

BeforeThereWas

Active Member
Dec 30, 2007
441
165
43
OK City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Gal 2:7
Paul Gospel OF UNcirc, Peter Gospel OF circ.
If disagree then please list ANY pre 1700 Bible that writes Gal 2:7 Gospel >>TO<< instead of >>OF<<.

The direction doesn't change the meaning, as you may know. All we have to do is look at the two gospels to see the differences in the elements of the two gospels.

BTW
 

BeforeThereWas

Active Member
Dec 30, 2007
441
165
43
OK City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
""The one and only gospel saves as was preached by Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch.""
""Paul's words in Romans 15 says "THE gospel of Christ"""

Was that Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4 ?

Nope. Not just one gospel. The differences have already been shown earlier in this thread. The proof is there.

BTW
 

Marilyn C

Encounter Team
Staff member
Encounter Team
Mar 16, 2016
1,501
414
83
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Female
Yes not everyone will acknowledge that Jesus gave the twelve the gospel of the kingdom and Paul the gospel of Christ
I agree. And I find it better to say that the good news of the Body of Christ is further revelation. The early Christians did understand the `Times and Seasons` (1 Thess. 5: 1) the good news of the kingdom rule of the Lord through Israel over the nations. Paul knew the OT and told his converts about it too.
 

BeforeThereWas

Active Member
Dec 30, 2007
441
165
43
OK City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Philip did indeed preach a gospel to others...the Kingdom Gospel requiring water baptism for the remission of sins, which is not a valid requirement upon the body of Christ today...although there are some churchianity organizations today that do preach water baptism as a requirement for salvation as did Philip and the twelve.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

That Kingdom Gospel was defined by Peter:

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Paul never once commanded such, thankfully.

BTW
 
Last edited:

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Nope. Not just one gospel. The differences have already been shown earlier in this thread. The proof is there.

BTW
Book OF Revelation, Book TO Revelation
The words OF BeforeThereWas, the words TO BeforeThereWas
Yep, you're absolutely right, OF & TO make no difference at all :)
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
If Philip preached Christ to the eunuch, he preached everything related to Christ and his salvation including the absolute need for baptism as part of the salvation process. Read the entire text.
For salvation unto eternal life Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus, that he is Christ, the Son of God. the Eunuch had to believe what Philip preached about Jesus. The eunuch believed Jesus is the Son of God. Baptism didnt save them it cleansed them from sin.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I agree. And I find it better to say that the good news of the Body of Christ is further revelation. The early Christians did understand the `Times and Seasons` (1 Thess. 5: 1) the good news of the kingdom rule of the Lord through Israel over the nations. Paul knew the OT and told his converts about it too.
Yes God's Word was progressive in what was revealed
Paul manifested a good deal of the OT and how it applied to us
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marilyn C

BeforeThereWas

Active Member
Dec 30, 2007
441
165
43
OK City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Book OF Revelation, Book TO Revelation
The words OF BeforeThereWas, the words TO BeforeThereWas
Yep, you're absolutely right, OF & TO make no difference at all :)

Apples to oranges comparisons prove nothing...other than there being a difference. To show my point in this that there are is more than one gospel:

Galatians 1:11-12 — But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

We know that Paul's persecution of the early Messianic Jews was based on what he knew from men the gospel preached by the twelve, which was before his encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus. It wasn't because he hated Jews because he was a Jew, so that dodge won't work as some have tried before to throw into the mix.

The gospel Paul preached AFTER his encounter with Christ and his coversion, THAT gospel he had not received of men but only from Christ.

Now, are you going to sit there and smugly claim they are one and the same gospel? If so, then you re calling Paul a liar and you would be violating the law of non-contradiction.

Good luck with that.

BTW
 
Last edited:

JesusFan

Member
May 15, 2025
116
36
28
65
Macomb mi
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes not everyone will acknowledge that Jesus gave the twelve the gospel of the kingdom and Paul the gospel of Christ
They both held to the Gospel of Christ, its just that Paul had additional revelation concerning the gentiles now being included with the Jews as in one Body now, Spiritual Israel
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Apples to oranges comparisons prove nothing...other than there being a difference. To show my point in this that there are is more than one gospel:

Galatians 1:11-12 — But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

We know that Paul's persecution of the early Messianic Jews was based on what he knew from men the gospel preached by the twelve, which was before his encounter with Christ on the road to Damascus. It wasn't because he hated Jews because he was a Jew, so that dodge won't work as some have tried before to throw into the mix.

The gospel Paul preached AFTER his encounter with Christ and his coversion, THAT gospel he had not received of men but only from Christ.

Now, are you going to sit there and smugly claim they are one and the same gospel? If so, then you re calling Paul a liar and you would be violating the law of non-contradiction.

Good luck with that.

BTW
Which Gospel do you believe applies today ?
Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
OR
Acts 2:38-45
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
They both held to the Gospel of Christ, its just that Paul had additional revelation concerning the gentiles now being included with the Jews as in one Body now, Spiritual Israel
The body of Christ isnt spiritual Israel. God will still fulfill restoring them in their prophetic earthly kingdom
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
6,821
1,175
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
"“There seems to be a great deal of confusion concerning, ‘the Israel of God’ of Galatians 6:16, and ‘all
Israel will be saved’ of Romans 11:26. Are these the same or different? What is your interpretation?”
I think the Israel of God is believing Israel
In Romans 11:26 all believing Israel will be saved upon his return to establish the new covenant and bring them into the land. Right now they are blinded in part but then all are saved. The fulness of the Gentiles to me could be when they fulfill their purpose of turning upon Israel and Christ when he returns.
 
  • Love
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

BeforeThereWas

Active Member
Dec 30, 2007
441
165
43
OK City
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Which Gospel do you believe applies today ?
Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
OR
Acts 2:38-45

Galatins 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The works-based gospel is ANOTHER gospel. Yes, there are those who foolishly claim that they are saved by grace BUT... It's either UNMERITED favor, or it's not. It cannot be grace AND works.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Nobody EARNS a gift. The goofy dichotomies some allow to run through their thinking as if there was no contradiction...wow.

Now, WHO was Peter addressing when he spoke what is recorded in Acts 2?

Acts 2:14, 18-20, 22, 36-39
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: ...
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: [Do YOU prophesy?]
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: [When did that ever happen...yet?]
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: ... [They were expecting that within their lifetime back then, as Jesus stated it would happen.]
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: ...
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [No Gentiles are said to have been in that crowd. It was addressed to ISRAEL, not Gentiles except in the minds of those who have given themselves over to REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY.]
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you [ISRAEL], and to your children [ISRAEL], and to all that are afar off [No deviation from ISRAEL as the focus.], even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now, some believe they have license to jam Gentiles into that section of scripture, but they do so without biblical backing.

Galatians 1:11-17
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Paul was persecuting the Messianic Jews because of what he knew they believed as preached by the twelve, which, then, clearly shows that Paul learned THAT gospel from men, but HIS gospel HE preached was ONLY from Christ. The claim that the revelation from Christ had only to do with salvation having come unto the Gentiles, they're doing nothing more than to vomit their own eisegetical quagmire of man-made doctrine while ignoring so much else that shines the light upon the distinctions, even with Paul declaring that he had not been sent to baptize. Contrast that with John the Baptist who stated that he was indeed sent to baptize.

Additionally, if the gospel preached by Peter were what is for us today, then Jewish preachers of the Kingdom Gospel should be able to still work these things [...had Israel not fallen...]:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Neither Jewish believers nor Gentile believers can do these things today, so the Kingdom Gospel cannot be valid for today. Cessationism, in and of itself, fails to grapple with what is taught among the works-based salvationists today who claim one must RETAIN their salvation through endurance, abstaining from sins, etc. They ignore the fact that they're boasting in their works of self-effort as commanded to those under the Kingdom Gospel, with some even claiming it's not "self" but is empowered by the same Lord and/or Spirit who said it is by GRACE (UNMERITTED FAVOR), as if the two could possibly mix. They love talking about following all that Christ commanded, but they conveniently ignore other things that do nothing but destroy their false doctrines because of the lack of miraculous things manifesting in their lives today to prove they are right. They're all as fake as faith healers allegedly healing already healthy people rising up from wheel chairs and shorter legs allegedly being lengthened while slipping the shoe out from the foot just enough to make it look like a real growth had taken place, which is in the caliber of slight-of-hand magician tricks.

So, yes, it's 1 Cor. 15:1-4 where Paul stated the gospel of our salvation bereft of works, for nowhere did Paul ever state water baptism or any other works as the means to salvation. He encouraged and commanded righteous living and good works for reward, thus building with that which will not burn in the fires of judgement at the Judgement Seat of Christ after the rapture of the body of Christ.

Some even like to claim the mystery was not Paul's gospel to Gentiles:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

If that mystery had already been revealed to the twelve, then Paul was a liar.

Nobody is "stablished" who is not a believer in Paul's gospel. That should serve as a warning to all who are not of that belief.

BTW
 

rvmb

Well-Known Member
Jul 3, 2025
1,252
330
83
Adelaide
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Galatins 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The works-based gospel is ANOTHER gospel. Yes, there are those who foolishly claim that they are saved by grace BUT... It's either UNMERITED favor, or it's not. It cannot be grace AND works.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Nobody EARNS a gift. The goofy dichotomies some allow to run through their thinking as if there was no contradiction...wow.

Now, WHO was Peter addressing when he spoke what is recorded in Acts 2?

Acts 2:14, 18-20, 22, 36-39
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: ...
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: [Do YOU prophesy?]
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: [When did that ever happen...yet?]
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: ... [They were expecting that within their lifetime back then, as Jesus stated it would happen.]
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: ...
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [No Gentiles are said to have been in that crowd. It was addressed to ISRAEL, not Gentiles except in the minds of those who have given themselves over to REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY.]
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you [ISRAEL], and to your children [ISRAEL], and to all that are afar off [No deviation from ISRAEL as the focus.], even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now, some believe they have license to jam Gentiles into that section of scripture, but they do so without biblical backing.

Galatians 1:11-17
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Paul was persecuting the Messianic Jews because of what he knew they believed as preached by the twelve, which, then, clearly shows that Paul learned THAT gospel from men, but HIS gospel HE preached was ONLY from Christ. The claim that the revelation from Christ had only to do with salvation having come unto the Gentiles, they're doing nothing more than to vomit their own eisegetical quagmire of man-made doctrine while ignoring so much else that shines the light upon the distinctions, even with Paul declaring that he had not been sent to baptize. Contrast that with John the Baptist who stated that he was indeed sent to baptize.

Additionally, if the gospel preached by Peter were what is for us today, then Jewish preachers of the Kingdom Gospel should be able to still work these things [...had Israel not fallen...]:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Neither Jewish believers nor Gentile believers can do these things today, so the Kingdom Gospel cannot be valid for today. Cessationism, in and of itself, fails to grapple with what is taught among the works-based salvationists today who claim one must RETAIN their salvation through endurance, abstaining from sins, etc. They ignore the fact that they're boasting in their works of self-effort as commanded to those under the Kingdom Gospel, with some even claiming it's not "self" but is empowered by the same Lord and/or Spirit who said it is by GRACE (UNMERITTED FAVOR), as if the two could possibly mix. They love talking about following all that Christ commanded, but they conveniently ignore other things that do nothing but destroy their false doctrines because of the lack of miraculous things manifesting in their lives today to prove they are right. They're all as fake as faith healers allegedly healing already healthy people rising up from wheel chairs and shorter legs allegedly being lengthened while slipping the shoe out from the foot just enough to make it look like a real growth had taken place, which is in the caliber of slight-of-hand magician tricks.

So, yes, it's 1 Cor. 15:1-4 where Paul stated the gospel of our salvation bereft of works, for nowhere did Paul ever state water baptism or any other works as the means to salvation. He encouraged and commanded righteous living and good works for reward, thus building with that which will not burn in the fires of judgement at the Judgement Seat of Christ after the rapture of the body of Christ.

Some even like to claim the mystery was not Paul's gospel to Gentiles:

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

If that mystery had already been revealed to the twelve, then Paul was a liar.

Nobody is "stablished" who is not a believer in Paul's gospel. That should serve as a warning to all who are not of that belief.

BTW
""Nobody is "stablished" who is not a believer in Paul's gospel.""
Agreed, Paul's Gospel is Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4 and not Acts 2:38-45
""Some even like to claim the mystery was not Paul's gospel to Gentiles:""