The Gospel

[newnature]

Acts 18:1-2, the church in Rome had existed for some time, but at one point, the Roman emperor Clavdivs had expelled all of the Jewish people from Rome, and then about five years later all of those Jews, including Jesus following Jews were allowed to return, and when they did, they found a church that had become very non-Jewish in custom and practice and so this created lots of tension, so that by Paul’s day, the Roman church was divided. People disagreed about how to follow Jesus, they were debating about whether non-Jewish Christians should celebrate the Sabbath or eat kosher or be circumsized. Paul wanted this divided church to become unified, and for a practical purpose, he was hoping that the Roman church could become a staging ground for his mission to go even further west, all the way to Spain. So, these circumstances are what motivated Paul to write out his fullest explanation of the gospel, the good news, announcing about Jesus’ life, death and resurrection.

The gospel reveals God’s righteousness, and then it also creates a new humanity which fulfills God’s promise to Israel. The gospel about Jesus, how he’s the Messiah of Israel, who was raised from the dead as the son of God, King of the nations, and Jesus now calls all humanity to come under his loving rule. This good news about King Jesus is God’s power to save people who trust in him and it reveals God’s righteousness. Righteousness describes God’s character, that he always does justice, what is right and what is good, but also that he is faithful and just to fulfill his promises. The story of Jesus shows how God has done both of these things, retelling Genesis chapters three through eleven, Paul shows how all the gentile world, all the nations have become trapped in the spiral of sin and selfishness.

The human heart and mind are broken, we’ve turned away from God to embrace idolatry, finding ultimate significance in created things, and then giving ultimate allegiance to these things that are not God. This results in a distortion of our humanity and destructive behavior, what’s left is a humanity that stands guilty as charged before a just and righteous God. The people of Israel might say, God chose our people out from among the nations, saving us out of slavery in Egypt, giving us the laws of the Torah, these show us how to live as God’s holy people, but Paul recalls the storyline of the Torah and of the rest of the Old Testament, which shows that Israel was just a sinful and idolatrous and morally broken as the rest of humanity. Israel is actually more guilty then the gentiles, because they have the Torah, they should know better.

All humanity, Gentiles and Israelites are hopelessly trapped and guilty before God, the good news about Jesus is God’s response. Instead of holding humanity guilty, Jesus came as Israel’s messiah to die on behalf of all people as a sacrifice for sins. As our representative, Jesus took into himself all of the just consequences of the pain, the sin and the death that we have caused in the world, and he overcame it all by his resurrection from the dead, it’s his new resurrection life that he makes available to others. Jesus became what we are, so that we might become what he is, and all of this is how God justifies those who trust or have faith in Jesus. Now justification, it’s related to God’s righteousness, because of what Jesus did on our behalf, we are given a new status before God. Instead of finding us guilty, God declare that a person is in a right relationship with him and is forgiven. Justification results in a new family, the person who trust in Jesus is given a place among God’s covenant people. Justification also results in a new future which begins a journey of life transformation by God’s grace, all of these things about justification are God’s gift to those who through their faith are in Christ.

Paul explores the huge implications that all of this has for who can be a part of God’s covenant family, the story of Abraham, before any of the laws of the Torah were given to Israel, Abraham was justified or declared righteous before God. God promised Abraham would become a father of a large multi-ethnic family that would receive God’s blessing, but he and his wife Sarah, they were really old, and they had never been able to have children, but Abraham had radical faith and trust in God’s promise. So God declared Abraham to be righteous, now he has become the father of God’s new covenant family and it’s spreading all around the world, made up of Jews and Gentiles who have the same kind of faith and trust in the one who fulfilled God’s promise to Abraham, Jesus the Messiah. All humanity is hopelessly trapped in sin and needs to be rescued. That rescue however, is not going to happen by people trying to obey the laws of the Torah. Rather, God’s righteous character has moved him to rescue the world through Jesus’ death and resurrection, so that he could create that multi-ethnic family of Abraham based on faith as his own new covenant people.

 

[Simple Dan]

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A bit wordy, but fine encapsulation of the Gospel nonetheless.

 

[rvmb]

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A bit wordy, but fine encapsulation of the Gospel nonetheless.

If you want the short version :-
Peter's Gospel Acts 2:38-45
Paul's Gospel Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4

 

[Simple Dan]

If you want the short version :-
Peter's Gospel Acts 2:38-45
Paul's Gospel Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4

Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel, handed down by the same Spirit, for the same people, the Israel of God. One Covenant, One Gospel, One Holy Temple, the Body of Christ.

 

[RepentingChristian]

If you want the short version :-
Peter's Gospel Acts 2:38-45
Paul's Gospel Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4

To me the Book of Acts is the most fascinating in the Bible.

 

[rvmb]

Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel, handed down by the same Spirit, for the same people, the Israel of God. One Covenant, One Gospel, One Holy Temple, the Body of Christ.

Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel, handed down by the same Spirit, for the same people, the Israel of God. One Covenant, One Gospel, One Holy Temple, the Body of Christ.

Gospel by Peter Acts 2:38-45
Gospel by Paul Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Show where Paul teaches Acts 2:44-45

 

[Simple Dan]

Gospel by Peter Acts 2:38-45
Gospel by Paul Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:1-4
Show where Paul teaches Acts 2:44-45

Sir, I did not happen into the forum this evening for the purpose of being lectured to by some stranger on the interwebs, or to engage in meaningless, and likely endless debate. It would seem however, that this is precisely why you are here, do carry on. But you will do so without my participation.

 

[RepentingChristian]

Let us all be humble and charitable to one another and bear good fruit that demonstrates that we are, indeed, our Father's children. Let us both give and accept gentle correction with gratitude, humility, and love for our brother/sister who is giving it. We should be striving to learn and grow together rather than pridefully boasting the knowledge given to us by the Holy Spirit in order to win an argument that further inflates our own self-pride. Let us be humble with one another.

 

[rvmb]

Sir, I did not happen into the forum this evening for the purpose of being lectured to by some stranger on the interwebs, or to engage in meaningless, and likely endless debate. It would seem however, that this is precisely why you are here, do carry on. But you will do so without my participation.

Were the verses too hard to understand ?
Can't you see the differences, sir :)

 

[Hazelelponi]

Were the verses too hard to understand ?
Can't you see the differences, sir :)

Acts 2:44–45 describes communal sharing, not the gospel itself.

Paul teaches the same ethic elsewhere, adapted to context:

Generosity & shared life

2 Corinthians 8–9
Galatians 6:6–10
Romans 12:13

Paul does not mandate Jerusalem-style communal living because:

That was situational, not sacramental
Even Acts later shows the church did not universally live that way

Same gospel → different applications.

Peter (Acts 2) Paul (1 Cor 15 / Eph 1)
Jesus is the Christ/ Jesus is the Christ
Crucified for sins/ Died for our sins
Raised by God/ Raised on the third day
Call to repentance & faith / Call to faith
Forgiveness in Christ / Forgiveness in Christ
Gift of the Spirit / Sealed by the Spirit

Same substance.
Same Savior.
Same salvation.

Scripture does not allow us to speak of “Peter’s gospel” and “Paul’s gospel” as though they were different messages. Paul explicitly condemns the idea of multiple gospels (Gal 1:6–9) and affirms that he and Peter preached the same gospel to different audiences (Gal 2:7–9).

.

 

[rvmb]

Acts 2:44–45 describes communal sharing, not the gospel itself.

Paul teaches the same ethic elsewhere, adapted to context:

Generosity & shared life

2 Corinthians 8–9
Galatians 6:6–10
Romans 12:13

Paul does not mandate Jerusalem-style communal living because:

That was situational, not sacramental
Even Acts later shows the church did not universally live that way

Same gospel → different applications.

Peter (Acts 2) Paul (1 Cor 15 / Eph 1)
Jesus is the Christ/ Jesus is the Christ
Crucified for sins/ Died for our sins
Raised by God/ Raised on the third day
Call to repentance & faith / Call to faith
Forgiveness in Christ / Forgiveness in Christ
Gift of the Spirit / Sealed by the Spirit

Same substance.
Same Savior.
Same salvation.

Scripture does not allow us to speak of “Peter’s gospel” and “Paul’s gospel” as though they were different messages. Paul explicitly condemns the idea of multiple gospels (Gal 1:6–9) and affirms that he and Peter preached the same gospel to different audiences (Gal 2:7–9).

.

Only bits of early Acts are necessary today with the rest optional ?
Does Paul (Rom-Philemon) teach lay hands required to receive the HS ? NO > Eph 1:13
Does Peter - early Acts teach lay hands to receive the HS ? Yes Acts 8:15-19
So what is it today LAY HANDS or not ??
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1 Cor 15:1-4 Saved/justified by trust in the death/burial/resurrection
Acts 2:38 Repent be baptized for remiss of sins, then receive HS eg Acts 8:15-19 = saved, right ?
So which one is it today ??
Are you going to blend the whole lot to a achieve a mix that is pleasing to you ?
Or are you going to stick with Paul as taught by Christ AND confirmed by the 12 & Paul !!
Acts 9:15, Acts 15:6-25, Gal 2:7-9, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16

 

[dak]

The people of Israel might say, God chose our people out from among the nations, saving us out of slavery in Egypt, giving us the laws of the Torah, these show us how to live as God’s holy people, but Paul recalls the storyline of the Torah and of the rest of the Old Testament, which shows that Israel was just a sinful and idolatrous and morally broken as the rest of humanity. Israel is actually more guilty then the gentiles, because they have the Torah, they should know better.

All humanity, Gentiles and Israelites are hopelessly trapped and guilty before God, the good news about Jesus is God’s response. Instead of holding humanity guilty, Jesus came as Israel’s messiah to die on behalf of all people as a sacrifice for sins. As our representative, Jesus took into himself all of the just consequences of the pain, the sin and the death that we have caused in the world, and he overcame it all by his resurrection from the dead, it’s his new resurrection life that he makes available to others. Jesus became what we are, so that we might become what he is, and all of this is how God justifies those who trust or have faith in Jesus. Now justification, it’s related to God’s righteousness, because of what Jesus did on our behalf, we are given a new status before God. Instead of finding us guilty, God declare that a person is in a right relationship with him and is forgiven. Justification results in a new family, the person who trust in Jesus is given a place among God’s covenant people. Justification also results in a new future which begins a journey of life transformation by God’s grace, all of these things about justification are God’s gift to those who through their faith are in Christ.

Paul explores the huge implications that all of this has for who can be a part of God’s covenant family, the story of Abraham, before any of the laws of the Torah were given to Israel, Abraham was justified or declared righteous before God. God promised Abraham would become a father of a large multi-ethnic family that would receive God’s blessing, but he and his wife Sarah, they were really old, and they had never been able to have children, but Abraham had radical faith and trust in God’s promise. So God declared Abraham to be righteous, now he has become the father of God’s new covenant family and it’s spreading all around the world, made up of Jews and Gentiles who have the same kind of faith and trust in the one who fulfilled God’s promise to Abraham, Jesus the Messiah. All humanity is hopelessly trapped in sin and needs to be rescued. That rescue however, is not going to happen by people trying to obey the laws of the Torah. Rather, God’s righteous character has moved him to rescue the world through Jesus’ death and resurrection, so that he could create that multi-ethnic family of Abraham based on faith as his own new covenant people.

The Gospel is literally the Good News or Good Tidings, and it is surely addressed in the Torah, which apparently you have no need for. The Gospel is truly about learning how to walk pleasing to the Father, which takes a spiritual understanding of His Torah, for His Torah is spiritual, just as Paul says in Rom 7:14a.

Meshiah choose the Good and the Life, and shared it with all, and was murdered for it because it was not the same message as the Chief Priests, Sadducees, Pharisees, Scribes, Elders, and the Sanhedrin because they chose death in all of their carnal minded, outward, and strictly physical understandings of the Torah.

Deuteronomy 30:9-20 HNV
9 The LORD your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your livestock, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
10 if you shall obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his mitzvot and his statutes which are written in this scroll of the Torah; if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul.
11 For this mitzvah which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [Rom 10:6]
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [Rom 10:7]
14 But the word is very near to you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it. [Rom 10:8]
15 Behold, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 in that I command you this day to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his mitzvot and his statutes and his ordinances, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you go in to possess it.
17 But if your heart turn away, and you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce to you this day, that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land, where you pass over the Yarden to go in to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your seed;
20 to love the LORD your God, to obey his voice, and to cleave to him; for he is your life, and the length of your days; that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Avraham, to Yitzchak, and to Ya`akov, to give them.

Meshiah chose the Life, and his Testimony expounds the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in examples, parables, proverbs, similes, metaphores, idioms, and sayings, etc., enough so that anyone truly seeking and desiring to walk in the Spirit of his Testimony may indeed understand the Spirit of the Torah and walk in it in the manner that is pleasing to the Father. The one will die who continues walking according to the natural mind, seeing all things as physical, natural, and outward, (especially concerning the Torah), according to the mind of the flesh, just as Paul also says in Rom 8:13, a little after the following portion of that passage.

Romans 8:4-8 KJV
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Good News or Gospel is fulfilling the warning and instruction from the Torah to choose the Good in everything one reads and hears in the Torah, therefore reading it with a full understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts which expounds all such things, being itself, (his Testimony), the fulfillment of the full Good News which was foretold to come even also in the Torah, (Deut 18:15-19).

If you are one who believes the Torah has been abolished, or set aside, or rendered entirely idle, or done away with: you have been deceived by others who are or were even more deceived. Be taught of Elohim, as Yeshayah the Prophet says, and as the Meshiah himself also quotes from. You have the rest of your life to do this and prove your love for the Father and His Word, His Son: there is no reason it should not happen. And again, Rom 7:14a, the Torah is spiritual: it is man that is carnal minded and must be converted, or he will never understand the Torah.

 

[newnature]

The Gospel is literally the Good News or Good Tidings, and it is surely addressed in the Torah, which apparently you have no need for. The Gospel is truly about learning how to walk pleasing to the Father, which takes a spiritual understanding of His Torah, for His Torah is spiritual, just as Paul says in Rom 7:14a.

Meshiah choose the Good and the Life, and shared it with all, and was murdered for it because it was not the same message as the Chief Priests, Sadducees, Pharisees, Scribes, Elders, and the Sanhedrin because they chose death in all of their carnal minded, outward, and strictly physical understandings of the Torah.

Deuteronomy 30:9-20 HNV
9 The LORD your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your livestock, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
10 if you shall obey the voice of the LORD your God, to keep his mitzvot and his statutes which are written in this scroll of the Torah; if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul.
11 For this mitzvah which I command you this day, it is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [Rom 10:6]
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it? [Rom 10:7]
14 But the word is very near to you, in your mouth, and in your heart, that you may do it. [Rom 10:8]
15 Behold, I have set before you this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 in that I command you this day to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his mitzvot and his statutes and his ordinances, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you go in to possess it.
17 But if your heart turn away, and you will not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce to you this day, that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land, where you pass over the Yarden to go in to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your seed;
20 to love the LORD your God, to obey his voice, and to cleave to him; for he is your life, and the length of your days; that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Avraham, to Yitzchak, and to Ya`akov, to give them.

Meshiah chose the Life, and his Testimony expounds the Torah, Prophets, and Writings in examples, parables, proverbs, similes, metaphores, idioms, and sayings, etc., enough so that anyone truly seeking and desiring to walk in the Spirit of his Testimony may indeed understand the Spirit of the Torah and walk in it in the manner that is pleasing to the Father. The one will die who continues walking according to the natural mind, seeing all things as physical, natural, and outward, (especially concerning the Torah), according to the mind of the flesh, just as Paul also says in Rom 8:13, a little after the following portion of that passage.

Romans 8:4-8 KJV
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The Good News or Gospel is fulfilling the warning and instruction from the Torah to choose the Good in everything one reads and hears in the Torah, therefore reading it with a full understanding of the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts which expounds all such things, being itself, (his Testimony), the fulfillment of the full Good News which was foretold to come even also in the Torah, (Deut 18:15-19).

If you are one who believes the Torah has been abolished, or set aside, or rendered entirely idle, or done away with: you have been deceived by others who are or were even more deceived. Be taught of Elohim, as Yeshayah the Prophet says, and as the Meshiah himself also quotes from. You have the rest of your life to do this and prove your love for the Father and His Word, His Son: there is no reason it should not happen. And again, Rom 7:14a, the Torah is spiritual: it is man that is carnal minded and must be converted, or he will never understand the Torah.

In the Bible, we learn that every human is a image of God, a sacred being who represents the Creator and is worthy of respect. In this way of seeing the world, sin is a failure to love God and others by not treating them with the honor they deserve. We can see this idea in the famous code of conduct given to the Israelites-the Ten Commandments, half of them identify ways we can fail at loving God and the other half names ways we can fail at loving people. The fact that both kinds of failure are combined shows that failing to honor God is deeply connected to failing to honor people, this is why in the Bible, sin against people, is sin against God.

 

[dak]

In the Bible, we learn that every human is a image of God,

Who is we? I did not learn that at all: every human is created by proxy in Gen 2:7, and Elohim reserved the residue of the Spirit unto Himself until the time appointed comes when the errant son or daughter is born from above in Meshiah, in the image and likeness of Elohim. These things I learned in the Torah, and Psalms, and Testimony of the Meshiah, and also his apostles in their writings.

The fact that both kinds of failure are combined shows that failing to honor God is deeply connected to failing to honor people, this is why in the Bible, sin against people, is sin against God.

I hope you are not focusing on yourself because of what I said to you? What is much more important is what I said to you, which was and is truth, and what it means to abrogate the Torah-Word of the Father: that is certainly neither love for the Logos-Word, nor love for the Father, surely not done in faith, and surely sin which blocks all understanding of the Word: and the vail over the heart, mind, and eyes will not be removed without that same Logos-Word. Moreover the Torah is full of Living Oracles, (Logia Zonta, Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, Acts 7:38).

 

[newnature]

Who is we? I did not learn that at all: every human is created by proxy in Gen 2:7, and Elohim reserved the residue of the Spirit unto Himself until the time appointed comes when the errant son or daughter is born from above in Meshiah, in the image and likeness of Elohim. These things I learned in the Torah, and Psalms, and Testimony of the Meshiah, and also his apostles in their writings.



I hope you are not focusing on yourself because of what I said to you? What is much more important is what I said to you, which was and is truth, and what it means to abrogate the Torah-Word of the Father: that is certainly neither love for the Logos-Word, nor love for the Father, surely not done in faith, and surely sin which blocks all understanding of the Word: and the vail over the heart, mind, and eyes will not be removed without that same Logos-Word. Moreover the Torah is full of Living Oracles, (Logia Zonta, Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, Acts 7:38).

She believes that there is an invisible creative force in the universe, that can guide people and how they should live, we can’t see it, just like we can’t see the gravity, but it affects everything that we do. What’s this force? In Hebrew, it’s called “chokma” and it’s usually gets translated into English as wisdom. It’s an attribute used of God, that God used to create the world and chokma has been woven into the fabric of things and how they work. Wherever people are making good or just or wise decisions, they are tapping into chokma and whenever someone is making a bad decision, they’re working against chokma. Proverbs 1:7, the waywardness of fools will destroy them, but the one who listens to wisdom, lives in security. It’s like a moral law of the universe, it’s a cause-effect pattern and no one can escape it.

 

[dak]

In the Bible, we learn that every human is a image of God,

Who is we?

She believes that there is an invisible creative force in the universe, that can guide people and how they should live, we can’t see it, just like we can’t see the gravity, but it affects everything that we do. What’s this force? In Hebrew, it’s called “chokma” and it’s usually gets translated into English as wisdom. It’s an attribute used of God, that God used to create the world and chokma has been woven into the fabric of things and how they work. Wherever people are making good or just or wise decisions, they are tapping into chokma and whenever someone is making a bad decision, they’re working against chokma. Proverbs 1:7, the waywardness of fools will destroy them, but the one who listens to wisdom, lives in security. It’s like a moral law of the universe, it’s a cause-effect pattern and no one can escape it.

???

Are you saying that by "we" you mean yourself and chokmah? (wisdom?), a force that you have tapped into? Do you understand that the Son, the Logos, is the Wisdom of Elohim? (see 1Cor 1:24-29).

 

[newnature]

???

Are you saying that by "we" you mean yourself and chokmah? (wisdom?), a force that you have tapped into? Do you understand that the Son, the Logos, is the Wisdom of Elohim? (see 1Cor 1:24-29).

We are going to see a character known as wisdom and the character is spoken of in female terms. Proverbs 8:22-31 and in chapter 8, wisdom is speaking at the beginning of the chapter, and in verse 22 The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old…then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man. Wisdom is cast as a co-creator in the Old Testament. We see that wisdom was the agent, but who or what was wisdom?

In the period between the Old Testament and the New Testament there is a very large body of literature that’s written by Jewish rabbis and scholars and thinker, religious authorities on all stripes, and they know their Old Testament. They comment and produce a lot of material that deals with wisdom. In Wisdom of Solomon 6:22, I will tell you what wisdom is and how she came to be, and I will hide no secrets from you. But I will trace her course from the beginning of creation, and make knowledge of her clear, and I will not pass by the truth.

I could produce a lot of text for you about wisdom, think of Proverbs, you may have not even thought about what you were reading in chapter 8, that all of a sudden wisdom is a person that’s a co-creator right there at creation. You probably thought, and for really good reason, and this is accurate as well, that wisdom is about right living, it’s about obeying the commandments of God. In fact, wisdom literature is the commandments of God, it’s God laying out his will, it’s giving you the repository of how you are supposed to live, it’s good for you, it’s the best for you. God knows what’s best. The Jews thought of Proverbs that way, and they thought of wisdom that way. In fact, to the Jew, wisdom was the Torah. They believe that the law was eternal, that it was there when God was there. Now, that’s quite a bit different than what the New Testament writers are going to do with it. Because the Jew takes all of that “person” language and “embodiment” language and transfers it to the Torah and they made the law the focus of all that they were about. It was as though the law had an existence and a personality all of its own, it was an extension of Yahweh.

Now, Paul and some of the other New Testament writers, what are they constantly talking about? That righteousness doesn’t come by the law. It comes by this person, Jesus. That person, that second person right there is God, he is wisdom, he is the word, he is the angel, all these things that we associate with embodied deity in the Old Testament. So you can see that the conflict is transparent, it’s Christ and the Law. Which wisdom is it? Which word is it? Is it this person, Jesus of Nazareth, or is it the Torah? Jesus says, I didn’t come to do away with the Torah, I came to fulfill it. Jesus is the embodiment of it. The New Testament writers, wisdom is an equation pushing the Torah aside, the Torah is not the co-creator. The Torah is not God’s answer for everything, wisdom is, but wisdom is Jesus.

 

[newnature]

???

Are you saying that by "we" you mean yourself and chokmah? (wisdom?), a force that you have tapped into? Do you understand that the Son, the Logos, is the Wisdom of Elohim? (see 1Cor 1:24-29).

Look at the language use to describe the Name in Isaiah 30:27. Behold, the Name of the Lord comes from afar. Looks like we’re getting language that makes the Name sound like a person. In blazing wrath with a heavy burden, his lips. The Name has lips? This language is speaking about the Name as though the Name is a person, because God is a person. How else could we talk about him. Lips full of fear, tongue like a devouring fire. Look at how the Name is used in Psalm 20:1,7. May the Lord answer you in the day of trouble, may the Name of the God of Jacob protect you. Some trust in chariots, some in horses, we trust in the Name of the Lord our God. Who’s name is that, it’s the same person. It’s a reference to him, to his presence, his person.

Let’s look at Exodus 23:20-21 and say that when God says to Moses, look, I got a trip for you. I’m going to send you to a land of milk and honey. I know you’re a little scared, but I’ll be with you. I’m going to send an Angel with you and I just want you to know that when you look at that Angel. When you see him out there, my Name is in him. My presence, my essence, who and what I am is in that Angel. That’s me out there. So certain Gentiles were noticing this, how this idea of Two Powers in Heaven was a part of Judaism in antiquity and it became a heresy. Identifying these two issues, the phrase Angel of the Lord and Angel of Yahweh and then this phrasing referred to as the Name. Passages in the Old Testament sounded to the ear like the God of Israel was two figures. But we got this Godhead idea and let’s just say that Two Powers in Heaven is bad and we will just do away with it. We want everybody in our community to know we don’t want to think that way, that’s not who we are. You can’t be that, you got to be a Christian.

God has a fundamental problem. God actually has two problems. One problem is if I come to people the way I really am, they’ll die. That just defeats the whole purpose, because I can’t really have a conversation if people are just going to start dropping dead. The other problem is, even if they didn’t drop dead, since I don’t have a body, how will they know I’m there. This is why God chooses to appear in ways that can be discerned with the human senses. So that you know he’s there and you’re not really getting the full him, because if you did, you’d drop over dead.

So it’s flame, it’s clouds and often it’s a human, it’s human form, it’s this messenger, it’s this Angel, that’s how you know God is there. It’s so that you don’t drop over dead, we’re safe. God solved both problems, I’m there and you ain’t going to die. God has to be veiled in some way. Like in Exodus 3:1-5, this passage is about Moses going to see the burning bush. An Angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a blazing fire out of the bush. He gazed and there was a bush all of flame, but the bush was not consumed, he goes to check this out. When Yahweh saw what he was doing. Clearly there are two characters in the bush. The Angel is in the bush, but so is Yahweh, they are both in the bush.

2 Samuel 6:1-2, David gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. and David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the Ark of God, which is called the Name who is the Lord God of Hosts. The Ark was called the Name? Why would the Ark be associated with the very presence of God, because that’s where the high priest met him once a year. They associated that object with the very divine presence, because that’s where the divine presence sat. The foot stool, the throne, all this language, that’s where he was. So they could look at the object, the presence is there. Some trust in chariots, some in horses, we trust in the Name of the Lord our God. Who’s name is that, it’s the same person. It’s a reference to him, to his presence, his person, not just four consonants. Hey, the four consonants are going to protect me. If that’s what you’re thinking, then you’ve just turned the person of Yahweh into some sort of incantation. It’s not four consonant, it’s a person.

 

[dak]

We are going to see a character known as wisdom and the character is spoken of in female terms. Proverbs 8:22-31 and in chapter 8, wisdom is speaking at the beginning of the chapter, and in verse 22 The Lord possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old…then I was beside him, like a master workman, and I was daily his delight rejoicing before him always, rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the children of man. Wisdom is cast as a co-creator in the Old Testament. We see that wisdom was the agent, but who or what was wisdom?

In the period between the Old Testament and the New Testament there is a very large body of literature that’s written by Jewish rabbis and scholars and thinker, religious authorities on all stripes, and they know their Old Testament. They comment and produce a lot of material that deals with wisdom. In Wisdom of Solomon 6:22, I will tell you what wisdom is and how she came to be, and I will hide no secrets from you. But I will trace her course from the beginning of creation, and make knowledge of her clear, and I will not pass by the truth.

I could produce a lot of text for you about wisdom, think of Proverbs, you may have not even thought about what you were reading in chapter 8, that all of a sudden wisdom is a person that’s a co-creator right there at creation. You probably thought, and for really good reason, and this is accurate as well, that wisdom is about right living, it’s about obeying the commandments of God. In fact, wisdom literature is the commandments of God, it’s God laying out his will, it’s giving you the repository of how you are supposed to live, it’s good for you, it’s the best for you. God knows what’s best. The Jews thought of Proverbs that way, and they thought of wisdom that way. In fact, to the Jew, wisdom was the Torah. They believe that the law was eternal, that it was there when God was there. Now, that’s quite a bit different than what the New Testament writers are going to do with it. Because the Jew takes all of that “person” language and “embodiment” language and transfers it to the Torah and they made the law the focus of all that they were about. It was as though the law had an existence and a personality all of its own, it was an extension of Yahweh.

Now, Paul and some of the other New Testament writers, what are they constantly talking about? That righteousness doesn’t come by the law. It comes by this person, Jesus. That person, that second person right there is God, he is wisdom, he is the word, he is the angel, all these things that we associate with embodied deity in the Old Testament. So you can see that the conflict is transparent, it’s Christ and the Law. Which wisdom is it? Which word is it? Is it this person, Jesus of Nazareth, or is it the Torah? Jesus says, I didn’t come to do away with the Torah, I came to fulfill it. Jesus is the embodiment of it. The New Testament writers, wisdom is an equation pushing the Torah aside, the Torah is not the co-creator. The Torah is not God’s answer for everything, wisdom is, but wisdom is Jesus.

Yes, I am familiar with wisdom writings, and certainly Proverbs: what you are missing is that the Torah is full of Logos, which is only understood from the Logic of the Father within the context of the Rhema spoken/written Word. The Logos is the one and only one-of-a-kind Son of the Father and the Torah is full of Logos and the Wisdom of the Father. The Wisdom is so deep that you appear not to have even scratched the surface and rather made up some mystical form which justifies your position against the Torah.

 

[dak]

Look at the language use to describe the Name in Isaiah 30:27. Behold, the Name of the Lord comes from afar. Looks like we’re getting language that makes the Name sound like a person. In blazing wrath with a heavy burden, his lips. The Name has lips? This language is speaking about the Name as though the Name is a person, because God is a person. How else could we talk about him. Lips full of fear, tongue like a devouring fire. Look at how the Name is used in Psalm 20:1,7. May the Lord answer you in the day of trouble, may the Name of the God of Jacob protect you. Some trust in chariots, some in horses, we trust in the Name of the Lord our God. Who’s name is that, it’s the same person. It’s a reference to him, to his presence, his person.

Let’s look at Exodus 23:20-21 and say that when God says to Moses, look, I got a trip for you. I’m going to send you to a land of milk and honey. I know you’re a little scared, but I’ll be with you. I’m going to send an Angel with you and I just want you to know that when you look at that Angel. When you see him out there, my Name is in him. My presence, my essence, who and what I am is in that Angel. That’s me out there. So certain Gentiles were noticing this, how this idea of Two Powers in Heaven was a part of Judaism in antiquity and it became a heresy. Identifying these two issues, the phrase Angel of the Lord and Angel of Yahweh and then this phrasing referred to as the Name. Passages in the Old Testament sounded to the ear like the God of Israel was two figures. But we got this Godhead idea and let’s just say that Two Powers in Heaven is bad and we will just do away with it. We want everybody in our community to know we don’t want to think that way, that’s not who we are. You can’t be that, you got to be a Christian.

God has a fundamental problem. God actually has two problems. One problem is if I come to people the way I really am, they’ll die. That just defeats the whole purpose, because I can’t really have a conversation if people are just going to start dropping dead. The other problem is, even if they didn’t drop dead, since I don’t have a body, how will they know I’m there. This is why God chooses to appear in ways that can be discerned with the human senses. So that you know he’s there and you’re not really getting the full him, because if you did, you’d drop over dead.

So it’s flame, it’s clouds and often it’s a human, it’s human form, it’s this messenger, it’s this Angel, that’s how you know God is there. It’s so that you don’t drop over dead, we’re safe. God solved both problems, I’m there and you ain’t going to die. God has to be veiled in some way. Like in Exodus 3:1-5, this passage is about Moses going to see the burning bush. An Angel of Yahweh appeared to him in a blazing fire out of the bush. He gazed and there was a bush all of flame, but the bush was not consumed, he goes to check this out. When Yahweh saw what he was doing. Clearly there are two characters in the bush. The Angel is in the bush, but so is Yahweh, they are both in the bush.

2 Samuel 6:1-2, David gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand. and David arose and went with all the people who were with him from Baale-judah to bring up from there the Ark of God, which is called the Name who is the Lord God of Hosts. The Ark was called the Name? Why would the Ark be associated with the very presence of God, because that’s where the high priest met him once a year. They associated that object with the very divine presence, because that’s where the divine presence sat. The foot stool, the throne, all this language, that’s where he was. So they could look at the object, the presence is there. Some trust in chariots, some in horses, we trust in the Name of the Lord our God. Who’s name is that, it’s the same person. It’s a reference to him, to his presence, his person, not just four consonants. Hey, the four consonants are going to protect me. If that’s what you’re thinking, then you’ve just turned the person of Yahweh into some sort of incantation. It’s not four consonant, it’s a person.

The Angel of Exodus 23:20 is Yohannei the Immerser according to the Meshiah himself in all three synoptic Gospel accounts.

Matthew 11:10 ASV
10 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Who shall prepare thy way before thee.

Matthew 11:10 N/A-W/H
10 ουτος εστιν περι ου γεγραπται ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ος κατασκευασει την οδον σου εμπροσθεν σου

Exodus 23:20 OG LXX
20 και ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου ινα φυλαξη σε εν τη οδω οπως εισαγαγη σε εις την γην ην ητοιμασα σοι

The highlighted statements from Mat 11:10 and Exo 23:20 LXX are identical, verbatim, word for word, as though the statement in Matthew was lifted straight out of the LXX-Septuagint. The phrase does not match Mal 3:1, the only question is why the modern commentators feel such a need to lie about it when some of them even admit that they see where it actually comes from.

Mat 11:10 ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου
Exo 23:20 ιδου εγω αποστελλω τον αγγελον μου προ προσωπου σου

The problem is that extremely few people actually believe what the Master says in the very same passage.

Matthew 11:13-15
13 For all the prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohannei:
14 And if you are willing to receive it, this is Eliyah who is about to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

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Your usage of the name "Yaweh" reveals that you do not understand the Tetragrammaton Name. The four consonants are very similar to the nomina sacra in the Uncial Greek N/T manuscripts. The full name is neither four consonants, nor six letters with your chosen vowels, and it perfectly describes who the Father is, even the one "person" that He was and is and shall be.