How many former Catholics are here?

[BreadOfLife]

It is implied by the importance of writing things down.

That’s NOT Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura is the false Protestant belief that Scripture is our SOLE Authority.

Show me where the Bible teaches this . . .

Infant dedications-- never heard of it. And denominations are not dogma either. It is about teaching. All teaching comes from a written source, even Catholic heresies.

Then you’re VERY sheltered.

Infant Dedications are commonplace in Protestant circles.

The Hebrew version of the bible has almah which does not mean virgin.

WOW – this is like talking to a wall . . .

Ummm, I already stated that agree with you here. I explained to you that it is the CONTEXT of the prophecy which determines that the ‘young girl” is a virgin.

It is still a violation of the constitution. It is respecting an establishment of religion, even if they are non-denominational. Conspiracy fact.

Soooo, espousing my Catholic faith publicly is a violation of the Constitution???

Either you’re really uneducated – or just NOT that bright . . .

 

[MonoBiblical]

Soooo, espousing my Catholic faith publicly is a violation of the Constitution???

Either you’re really uneducated – or just NOT that bright . . .

I believe the Catholic Church has violated the separation of Church and State in the United States. They have never believed in such a concept.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Soooo, espousing my Catholic faith publicly is a violation of the Constitution???

Why would it be?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe the Catholic Church has violated the separation of Church and State in the United States. They have never believed in such a concept.

First of all – separation of Church and state is NOT a Constitutional matter.

In fact, the ONLY time that phrase was ever uttered by the Forefathers was in 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association by Thomas Jefferson. It is certainly based on principles of the 1st Amendment – but not explicitly.
The 1st Amendment is a protection from the state imposing a state religion. It is NOT a prohibition on religion itself.

Secondly – neither the Catholic Church – nor ANY other religious organization has EVER been imposed on the American people. Take a Civics class . . .

Why would it be?

That's what YOU implied . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

OSAS?
[Revelation 21:7]sorry

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with OSAS.

 

[MonoBiblical]

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with OSAS.

Revelation 21:7 has everything to do with resurrection and salvation. I and you are not the sons/progenies of God.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Secondly – neither the Catholic Church – nor ANY other religious organization has EVER been imposed on the American people. Take a Civics class . . .

It is a fact that any R-1 is a violation of Church and State. But the RCC is not the only culprit.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Revelation 21:7 has everything to do with resurrection and salvation. I and you are not the sons/progenies of God.

Do you even understand what OSAS is??

OSAS stands for “Once Saved Always Saved”. Otherwise known as “Eternal Security.” This is a false Protestant doctrine. The Bible warns us that borna-again Christians can LOSE their secure position and be LOST – by their OWN doing . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is a fact that any R-1 is a violation of Church and State. But the RCC is not the only culprit.

Spoken from an utter ignorance of the U.S. Constitution . . .

The R-1 Visa is a non-immigrant visa for temporary religious workers. How is this a violation of the Constitution?? You don’t understand the First Amendment. I will now educate you . . .

The First Amendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Allowing temporary religious workers to enter the country has absolutely NOTHING to do with Congress establishing a state religion or prohibiting ANYBODY from practicing their own religion.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Do you even understand what OSAS is??

OSAS stands for “Once Saved Always Saved”. Otherwise known as “Eternal Security.” This is a false Protestant doctrine. The Bible warns us that borna-again Christians can LOSE their secure position and be LOST – by their OWN doing . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

The application to the living is false.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Allowing temporary religious workers to enter the country has absolutely NOTHING to do with Congress establishing a state religion or prohibiting ANYBODY from practicing their own religion.

This is an absolute lie about Visas.

 

[shepherdsword]

That’s NOT Sola Scriptura.
Sola Scriptura is the false Protestant belief that Scripture is our SOLE Authority.

I believe the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is our sole authority. He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit based on the sacrifice of Christ. However, he has also revealed his will to us through the scriptures. As such I reject any so called "oral tradition" that contradicts it. Tradition is fine when it lines up with the word. it must be rejected when it does not. As for the work being the sole authority over a contradictory oral tradition?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is an absolute lie about Visas.

No it’s not. It is the actual legal definition of what a D-1 Visa is.

YOU’RE just embarrassed because I exposed your ignorance . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is our sole authority. He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit based on the sacrifice of Christ. However, he has also revealed his will to us through the scriptures.

God is the ultimate Authority.

His Authority is conveyed to us through Scripture (2 Tim. 3:15, 3 Pet. 1:21), Tradition (2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 1 Cor. 11:2) and the Church (Matt. 16:18-19; 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, Joh, 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As such I reject any so called "oral tradition" that contradicts it. Tradition is fine when it lines up with the word. it must be rejected when it does not. As for the work being the sole authority over a contradictory oral tradition?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Then you reject Scripture itself . . .

Your confusion – like most non-Catholics is your inability to differentiate between tradition and Tradition.

Capital “T’ Tradition, otherwise known as Sacred Tradition is as binding as Scripture.
Paul makes this case to the Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

He doesn’t differentiate between Sacred Tradition and Scripture.

The NT Canon of Scripture is a Sacred Tradition. The Books that belong in the NT are NOT listed in the bible. They were declared canonical by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

Small “t” traditions are those man-made traditions that are not binding on a Catholic. They might include prayers like the Divine Mercy Chaplet, things like the events in the life of a particular saint, clerical vestments, candles or certain foods during feast days, etc. None of these things are essential for salvation. They aid is in our faith walk.

Either way - there is not a SINGLE tradition OR Tradition that supersedes Scripture. Not ONE.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The application to the living is false.

Explain what you mean by that.
ALL of these verses are directed toward the living.

 

[shepherdsword]

God is the ultimate Authority.

His Authority is conveyed to us through Scripture (2 Tim. 3:15, 3 Pet. 1:21), Tradition (2 Thess 2:15, 2 Thess. 3:6, 1 Cor. 11:2) and the Church (Matt. 16:18-19; 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, Joh, 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Then you reject Scripture itself . . .

This is amusing. I say I reject any tradition that doesn't come from scripture and you say this is rejecting scripture itself? That doesn't make any sense

Your confusion – like most non-Catholics is your inability to differentiate between tradition and Tradition.

Capital “T’ Tradition, otherwise known as Sacred Tradition is as binding as Scripture.
Paul makes this case to the Thessalonians:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

He doesn’t differentiate between Sacred Tradition and Scripture.

The NT Canon of Scripture is a Sacred Tradition. The Books that belong in the NT are NOT listed in the bible. They were declared canonical by the Catholic Church in the 4th century.

Small “t” traditions are those man-made traditions that are not binding on a Catholic. They might include prayers like the Divine Mercy Chaplet, things like the events in the life of a particular saint, clerical vestments, candles or certain foods during feast days, etc. None of these things are essential for salvation. They aid is in our faith walk.

The traditions Paul speaks of in 1Cor 11:2 and 2Th 2:15 are simply spoken scripture. Paul says this about scripture:

2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Name one single place where he says the same about tradition? Paul not only wrote letters but also preached when he was bodily present. THAT is the traditions he spoke of

Either way - there is not a SINGLE tradition OR Tradition that supersedes Scripture. Not ONE.

I agree with you here. It lines up with sola scriptura taught here:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

But let's test your claim. Is celibacy a requirement for the priesthood?

The scripture states that forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils. What do you say?

1 Ti 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

 

[MonoBiblical]

No it’s not. It is the actual legal definition of what a D-1 Visa is.

YOU’RE just embarrassed because I exposed your ignorance . . .

Whatever

 

[MonoBiblical]

Explain what you mean by that.
ALL of these verses are directed toward the living.

The application of OSAS to the living is incorrect. Eternal Security is not OSAS; but it is Calvin's doctrine.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

You mean like giving it a special favor with R-1 visas?

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is amusing. I say I reject any tradition that doesn't come from scripture and you say this is rejecting scripture itself? That doesn't make any sense

I’m saying being a Sola Scripturist is a self-defeating proposition because Scripture puts Sacred Tradition on EQUAL footing with itself (2 Thess. 2:15)..

The traditions Paul speaks of in 1Cor 11:2 and 2Th 2:15 are simply spoken scripture. Paul says this about scripture:

2 Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Name one single place where he says the same about tradition? Paul not only wrote letters but also preached when he was bodily present. THAT is the traditions he spoke of

That’s NOT what Paul said. THIS is what He said:
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."
Either/Or – not one above the other.

And NOWHERE does Paul indicate that everything he spoke to them about is written down. Not even everything JESUS taught was written down (John 21:25).

I agree with you here. It lines up with sola scriptura taught here:

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

But let's test your claim. Is celibacy a requirement for the priesthood?
The scripture states that forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils. What do you say?

1 Ti 4:1-3
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

That’s because YOU don’t do your homework . . .

First of all, priestly celibacy is a discipline – NOT a doctrine. It’s based on verses like Paul’s endorsement of celibacy as a more excellent way of serving the Lord (1 Cor. 7:1-16). This discipline is for priests in the Western Catholic Church. In the Eastern Catholic Churches, married men are allowed to enter the priesthood.

As to this being a “pagan” practice per 1 Titus 4:1-3 – you are WAY off-base. Paul was writing about the Gnostics, who not only forbade marriage, but certain foods as well.

As a Protestant, you are taught to believe this nonsense about Catholics. Now that you know the truth – maybe you won’t spread those falsehoods anymore . . .