Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

[Adventageous]

This is the "Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study" thread.

A QUICK LINK thread for Rev. 20:1 is here - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:2 - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:2 - 1000 years - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:3 - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:3 continued - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:3 continued - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - Rev. 20:3 continued - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - 1st, 2nd & 3rd Advents of Jesus - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - 1st, 2nd & 3rd Advents of Jesus (continued) - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

A QUICK LINK - 1st, 2nd & 3rd Advents of Jesus (continued) - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study​

(NOTE; PLEASE READ AT LEAST THIS POST BEFORE ENGAGING: Please, in charity (1 Cor. 13 KJB), be kind to each other's response in responding (Col. 4:6 KJB), whether one sees another's responses in error or not. This means a person can point out an error (by scripture), or by asking a question for clarification or in attempt to help another see a flaw, but please refrain from accusations, like 'liar' (that is difficult to prove motive of), 'deceiver', 'lost', &c/, like character assassinations, or previous argumentative history with a person (aka 'personal baggage / grievances / grudges'). As those things are unhelpful, and lead away from actual scriptural study. One may use words like correct, incorrect, fact and error, but in a kindly, demonstrative with evidence way.)

Here are the primary texts for study; Rev. 201-15 KJB (King James Bible), highlighting only "a thousand years", "the thousand years" in bold underline.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.​

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This thread's author (myself) believes that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein (Gen. 40:8; Isa. 28;10,13 KJB), and that as a Christian (we / I) should only "amen" what is already given to us therein from God (1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), as the scripture, being inspired of God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order" (1 Cor. 14:40 KJB) and perfect 'timing' (Ecc. 3:1 KJB), and 'cannot lie' (Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18 KJB), and so the word thereFrom, cannot be "broken" (non-contradictory; Jhn. 10:35; Psa. 119:160 KJB). This means I do not believe in, nor subscribe to, "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20 KJB) at all. Therefore, if someone not liking a reply says, 'That is your [meaning 'my'] opinion ...', or something to that effect, they have unjustly mischaracterized my actual position, and present a 'strawman' of their own mind / making in its place, and have ceased from engaging with my actual response and position, and I may point this out in charity, and ask for a differing response. There is only 1 Truth, and it is the Truth of JEHOVAH Elohiym, being of, and belonging, to the LORD God. I do not have a monopoloy on Truth, as the Godhead shares with whomsoever They will.

Please go slowly, as it is not neccessary to place ones entire theology / eschatological position into a response. This thread is more about studying together, asking honest and sincere questions of one another about their positions held. People may openly disagree with one another, but please do so in a kindly fashion, with stated reasons / evidences for the disagreement. Allow the other respondant time to read, and engage with what is stated. If this thread, for whatever reason (generally satanic influences) becomes a name-calling event, as other threads, I will simply abandon this thread, and ask to have it closed by Moderation / Admin, or ask for a specific individual to be removed from further corrupt influence upon a sincerely intentioned endeavor.

"... be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." - Mat. 10:16 KJB​

Thank you all who participate in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Adventageous]

Let us begin with the first verse (Rev. 20:1), and consider it, before moving onward:

Rev 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

​

Rev 20:1 GNT TR - και ειδον αγγελον καταβαινοντα εκ του ουρανου εχοντα την κλειδα της αβυσσου και αλυσιν μεγαλην επι την χειρα αυτου​

​

Rev 20:1 GNT TR with Strong's & Robinsons' Morphological Analysis Codes - καιG2532 CONJ ειδονG3708 V-2AAI-1S αγγελονG32 N-ASM καταβαινονταG2597 V-PAP-ASM εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM ουρανουG3772 N-GSM εχονταG2192 V-PAP-ASM τηνG3588 T-ASF κλειδαG2807 N-ASF τηςG3588 T-GSF αβυσσουG12 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ αλυσινG254 N-ASF μεγαληνG3173 A-ASF επιG1909 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF χειραG5495 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM​

Rev. 20:1 Interlinear - Revelation 20:1 Interlinear: And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,​

There are words to consider in this text. Words for discussion:

• "And I saw"
• "an angel"
• "come down from heaven"
• "having the key"
• "the key of the bottomless pit"
• "bottomless pit"
• "a great chain"
• "in his hand"

This author (myself) has previously stated elsewhere that the "Revelation" (G602, "αποκαλυψις", "apokalypsis" meaning to reveal, make known, show forth, &c) "of Jesus Christ" given in "signifi(cation)" is to be understood by the "servants" of Jesus:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.​

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.​

 

[Hiddenthings]

Let us begin with the first verse (Rev. 20:1), and consider it, before moving onward:

Rev 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

​

Rev 20:1 GNT TR - και ειδον αγγελον καταβαινοντα εκ του ουρανου εχοντα την κλειδα της αβυσσου και αλυσιν μεγαλην επι την χειρα αυτου​

​

Rev 20:1 GNT TR with Strong's & Robinsons' Morphological Analysis Codes - καιG2532 CONJ ειδονG3708 V-2AAI-1S αγγελονG32 N-ASM καταβαινονταG2597 V-PAP-ASM εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM ουρανουG3772 N-GSM εχονταG2192 V-PAP-ASM τηνG3588 T-ASF κλειδαG2807 N-ASF τηςG3588 T-GSF αβυσσουG12 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ αλυσινG254 N-ASF μεγαληνG3173 A-ASF επιG1909 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF χειραG5495 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM​

Rev. 20:1 Interlinear - Revelation 20:1 Interlinear: And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,​

There are words to consider in this text. Words for discussion:

• "And I saw"
• "an angel"
• "come down from heaven"
• "having the key"
• "the key of the bottomless pit"
• "bottomless pit"
• "a great chain"
• "in his hand"

This author (myself) has previously stated elsewhere that the "Revelation" (G602, "αποκαλυψις", "apokalypsis" meaning to reveal, make known, show forth, &c) "of Jesus Christ" given in "signifi(cation)" is to be understood by the "servants" of Jesus:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.​

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.​

Advantageous, thank you for starting a new thread on this beautiful section of the Apocalypse.

Not sure how slow you would like to go but let's consider the opening phrase.

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven” an angel, being a messenger of God. In Revelation 19:10, the presiding angel is associated with the Redeemed, who, in the days of their glory, will not only be “equal unto the angels” (Luke 20:36) but will also assume responsibility for administering affairs currently managed by the angels under the guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:14; 2:5; 1 Peter 3:22).

(It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time (the beginning of the 1000 year period), no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection.)

After the destruction of all organized opposition to Christ’s rule (Revelation 19:21), the nations will be brought under divine law (Isaiah 2:2-4; 26:9; 42:4). To accomplish this, the Redeemed, having been elevated to the political heavens (Revelation 4:1; 5:9-10) will descend to the political earth to instruct and guide the people, “coming down like rain upon the mown grass” (Psalm 72:6).

There are several points that need careful unpacking, including the symbolic interpretation, which will require considerable time if we are to truly grasp the full significance of this prophecy.

 

[Adventageous]

Advantageous, thank you for starting a new thread on this beautiful section of the Apocalypse.

Not sure how slow you would like to go but let's consider the opening phrase.

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven” an angel, being a messenger of God. In Revelation 19:10, the presiding angel is associated with the Redeemed, who, in the days of their glory, will not only be “equal unto the angels” (Luke 20:36) but will also assume responsibility for administering affairs currently managed by the angels under the guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:14; 2:5; 1 Peter 3:22).

(It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time, no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection.)

After the destruction of all organized opposition to Christ’s rule (Revelation 19:21), the nations will be brought under divine law (Isaiah 2:2-4; 26:9; 42:4). To accomplish this, the Redeemed, having been elevated to the political heavens (Revelation 4:1; 5:9-10) will descend to the political earth to instruct and guide the people, “coming down like rain upon the mown grass” (Psalm 72:6).

There are several points that need careful unpacking, including the symbolic interpretation, which will require considerable time if we are to truly grasp the full significance of this prophecy.

Most welcome "Hiddenthings". I thought a new beginning might bring more clarity for all involved, and pray that it is so.

As slow as possible (and I think your response a bit faster than desired, as there is a lot to unpack in it), so that any given point under study is understood and agreed to by as many who will do so. This does not mean I will (or that we all have to) wait for all to agree, for while it is a noble and lofty goal to achieve, it is ofttimes unreached, and so must carry on with the work study to have as much understanding as possible, with as much agreement as possible. I have read your response in full, and looked up each individual Bible reference.

If I may ask a clarifying question upon what you have already presented in response:

QUESTIONS TO Hiddenthings:

Do you (Hiddenthings) directly equate "an angel" (Rev. 20:1; "ἄγγελον", "angelon"; N-AMS (Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular)) with glorified human beings (plural, or plurality) among 'the Redeemed' when you cited 'the presiding angel' (Rev. 19:10) as being in 'association'? What I am asking, is, Are you (Hiddenthings) of the present belief that the words "an angel" (Rev. 20:1) are a symbolic description of the glorified redeemed humanity? [I will wait for your response, to make sure I understand your present position upon this point.]​

​

I am not sure what you mean by "political heavens" and "political earth". Are you able to clarify those two phrases in brief, just so that I understand what you have meant in providing them? I did not want to guess at the meaning you have intended there.​

WHAT I CAN AGREE TO SO FAR (please always be very careful in reading what I do say, not what I do not say, let none assume, just ask)

I agree that glorified redeemed humanity, "as touching the resurrection of the dead" (Mat. 22:31 KJB) will indeed be "equal unto the angels" (Luk. 20:36 KJB) and will be "as the angels of God in heaven" (Mat. 22:30 KJB), in that they will "be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage" (Luk. 20:35 KJB; also Mat. 22:30 KJB), and "Neither can they die any more" (Luk. 20:36 KJB) and "are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" (Luk. 20:36 KJB).​

​

I can agree that most (not all, see below) of the 'saved' are "in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection" (as you have stated), and some are still alive at present living upon the face of the earth now.​

​

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.​

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:​

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

I can agree with your (Hiddenthings) statement, "There are several points that need careful unpacking, including the symbolic interpretation, which will require considerable time if we are to truly grasp the full significance of this prophecy."​

WHAT I CANNOT AGREE TO SO FAR (please always be very careful in reading what I do say, not what I do not say, let none assume, just ask)

You (Hiddenthings) have stated, "It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time, no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection."​

​

Upon these points, I cannot fully agree with you, as I recognize, from scripture that there are a few who have been glorified already (before the second Advent / Coming of Jesus), with some being translated alive, and some being resurrected and taken to heaven (3rd, aka "paradise" of God; Luk. 23:43; 2 Cor. 2:2,4; Rev. 2:7, cited only for the word "paradise" in connection to "the third heaven"), as for instance:​

​

TRANSLATIONS (OT):​

• Enoch (OT) - Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5 KJB
• Elijah (OT) - 2 Kin. 2:1-12 KJB

RESURRECTIONS (OT):​

• Moses (OT) - Num. 20:8-12, 27:13, 31:2; Deu. 4:21-22, 31:2,14,16, 32:51-52, 34:1-8; 1 Sam. 2:6; Mat. 17:1-12; Mar. 9:1-13; Luk. 9:27-36; Jhn. 11:25-26; Rom. 5:14; 2 Pet. 1:16; Jud. 1:9 KJB

Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.​

​

RESURRECTIONS (NT):​

• Jesus (NT) - Eternal Heavenly Trio (JEHOVAH Elohiym) Col. 2:12; 1 Pet. 1:21; 1 Cor. 6:14; Act. 2:24, 3:15, 13:33; Heb. 13:20;

(The Father's actions) Act. 4:10; Eph. 1:20; Rom. 6:4; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thes. 1:10;​

(The Son's actions) Jhn. 2:19, 10:18;​

(The Holy Ghost's actions) Rom. 8:11; 1 Pet. 3:18; See also: Mat. 28:1-20; Mar. 16:1-20; Luk. 24:1-53; Jhn. 20:1-31; 1 Cor. 15:20,23 KJB​

​

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.​

• Firstfruits (NT) - Mat. 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isa. 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psa. 40:6; Heb. 10:5; Gal. 4:4); Psa. 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Gen. 3:15); compare Psa. 68:18 to Eph. 4:8-10; & Lev. 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Cor. 15:21-23. See also Psa. 24:1-10 (Victory Train into New Jerusalem), with Psa. 98:1-3; Col. 2:15. See also Acts 1.

Thus 5 'groups' have been glorified in body already, and have entered into the 3rd Heaven (paradise) alive.​

​

1. Enoch​

2. Moses​

3. Elijah​

4. Jesus​

5. 'Firstfruits'​

For further translations and resurrections, please see Chapter 6, pages 25-26 - Sincerely Dead Dying, To Know Jesus by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

​

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:​

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.​

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.​

​

Now, I do not think, at present, that this particular niche point is all that relevant to the text of Rev. 20:1, and therefore, there is no need for us to specifically sidetrack our present study of Rev. 20:1 upon this difference of our positions. However, if you see a need to do so, I am not overly opposed to you / us doing so, but I still think it would be a slight diversion from Rev. 20:1-15 itself none-the-less.

To be continued ...

 

[Adventageous]

Advantageous, thank you for starting a new thread on this beautiful section of the Apocalypse.

Not sure how slow you would like to go but let's consider the opening phrase.

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven” an angel, being a messenger of God. In Revelation 19:10, the presiding angel is associated with the Redeemed, who, in the days of their glory, will not only be “equal unto the angels” (Luke 20:36) but will also assume responsibility for administering affairs currently managed by the angels under the guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:14; 2:5; 1 Peter 3:22).

(It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time (the beginning of the 1000 year period), no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection.)

After the destruction of all organized opposition to Christ’s rule (Revelation 19:21), the nations will be brought under divine law (Isaiah 2:2-4; 26:9; 42:4). To accomplish this, the Redeemed, having been elevated to the political heavens (Revelation 4:1; 5:9-10) will descend to the political earth to instruct and guide the people, “coming down like rain upon the mown grass” (Psalm 72:6).

There are several points that need careful unpacking, including the symbolic interpretation, which will require considerable time if we are to truly grasp the full significance of this prophecy.

... continued from - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study ...

WHAT I BELIEVE about Rev. 20:1,

In going as slow as necessary, I would like to start with the words:

"And I saw" ("και ειδον", "kai eidon", Conj, V-AIA-1S (Verb - Aorist-Indicative-Active - 1 Person-Singular), and identify this "I" (pronoun) as the apostle John, who has been taken into several visions by the Holy Ghost / Spirit throughout.

This phrasing refers to John's continual experience since Rev. 1:1-2, and being reiterated again at the ending with "John's" name in Rev. 21:2, 22:8:

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

Rev_1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.​

​

Rev_21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.​

​

Rev_22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.​

This same type of phrasing is used by John throughout the Revelation of Jesus Christ, in the words:

• "saw" (Rev. 1:2,17, 4:4, 5:1,2, 6:1,2,9, 7:1,2, 8:2, 9:1,17, 10:1,5, 13:1,2,3, 14:6, 15:1,2, 16:13, 17:3,6(x2), 18:1, 19:11,17,19, 20:1,4(x2),11, 21:1, 21:2,22, 22:8 KJB) and
• "beheld" (Rev. 5:6,11, 6:5,12, 7:9, 8:13, 13:11 KJB) and
• "seen" (Rev. 1:19, 11:19, 22:8 KJB) and
• "heard" (Rev. 1:10, 4:1, 5:11,13, 6:1,3,5,6,7, 7:4, 8:13, 9:13,16, 10:4,8, 12:10, 14:2,13, 16:1,5,7, 18:4, 19:1,6, 21:3, 22:8 (x2) KJB).

Furthermore the very inherent unbreakable linguistic structure of the Revelation as a whole, and in individual chapters, which would tie them (the phrases) together in their various positions as well, as for instance see the great parallelism charts here, beginning with Revelation, on the lower half of pages 19-32 - The Seven Trumpets Of Revelation - God's Great Trump : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

As a brief for instance, a parallelism in linguistic structure of Rev. 9:1 and Rev. 20:1, may be witnessed:

See page 249, for a comparison of Rev. 9:1 to Rev. 20:1 in linguistics - The Seven Trumpets Of Revelation - God's Great Trump : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Rev 9:1 KJB - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.​

​

Rev 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

​

Revelation 9:1 (wicked, apostasy, lies)​	Revelation 20:1 (righteous, Faithful, Truth)​
“... and I saw ...”​	“And I saw ...”​
“... a star ...”​	“... an angel ...”​
“... fall ...”​	“... come down ...”​
“... from heaven ...”​	“... from heaven ...”​
“... unto the earth ...”​	-------​
“... and to him was given the key ...”​	“... having the key ...”​
“... of the bottomless pit.”​	“... of the bottomless pit ...”​
-------​	“... and a great chain in his hand.”​
[Opens, Unlocks, Unseals; Rev. 9:2-3 KJB]​	[Closes, Locks, Seals; Rev. 20:2-3 KJB]​
Lies, are a ‘key’ of sin, opening a pit of darkness & evil.​	Truth, is a ‘key’ of righteousness, sealing away all lies.​

​

The phrase "saw", refers to prophetic visions given by inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), by/under the influence of the Holy Ghost / Spirit:

Rev 1:10 KJB - I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,​

​

Rev 19:10 KJB - And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.​

This is seen throughout scripture, as also may be witnessed on page 682, here (lower chart), where the word "testimony" is linked with the words "prophets" and "visions" and "saw" - The Seven Trumpets Of Revelation - God's Great Trump : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Look at the parallels just in the Revelation:

[A1] Rev. 1:2 KJB - “word” & “testimony”​

​

[B1] Rev. 1:9 KJB - “word” & “testimony”​

​

[C1] [Reverse] Rev. 1:10 KJB - “in the Spirit” & “the Lord’s day”​

​

[A2] Rev. 6:9 KJB - “word” & “testimony”​

​

[B2] Rev. 12:17 KJB - “commandments” & “testimony”​

​

[C2] [Reverse] Rev. 20:4 KJB - “witness” & “word”​

This means, just as Rev. 1:1 stated (G4591, "signified", "εσημανεν", "esemanen"; V-AAI-3S) that it was given in symbolism / symbols, as done before in the OT (see Ezekiel, Daniel, &c.) and in NT under various persons (Zacharias in the Temple; Luk. 1:5,22 KJB; Peter in Acts 10-11; &c.) & parables (see Jesus' parables in the Gospels; Mat. 13:13,35; Psa. 49:4, 78:2 KJB), for the ways of JEHOVAH Elohiym do not change (Psa. 102:12,24-26; Mal. 3:6; Heb. 1:12, 13:8 KJB).

​

Num_12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.​

​

Job_33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;​

​

Amo_3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.​

... to be continued on the words "an angel", but I will wait for Hiddenthings response to my question (previously asked) first ...

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Adventageous, in the past, discussions have become overly long and fragmented, making it difficult to follow a coherent line of thought. How do you suggest we proceed from here? For example, there are three separate replies to post #4. Should we first identify areas of agreement and set those aside, and then focus only on the points of disagreement?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Most welcome "Hiddenthings". I thought a new beginning might bring more clarity for all involved, and pray that it is so.

As slow as possible (and I think your response a bit faster than desired, as there is a lot to unpack in it), so that any given point under study is understood and agreed to by as many who will do so. This does not mean I will (or that we all have to) wait for all to agree, for while it is a noble and lofty goal to achieve, it is ofttimes unreached, and so must carry on with the work study to have as much understanding as possible, with as much agreement as possible. I have read your response in full, and looked up each individual Bible reference.

If I may ask a clarifying question upon what you have already presented in response:

QUESTIONS TO Hiddenthings:

Do you (Hiddenthings) directly equate "an angel" (Rev. 20:1; "ἄγγελον", "angelon"; N-AMS (Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular)) with glorified human beings (plural, or plurality) among 'the Redeemed' when you cited 'the presiding angel' (Rev. 19:10) as being in 'association'? What I am asking, is, Are you (Hiddenthings) of the present belief that the words "an angel" (Rev. 20:1) are a symbolic description of the glorified redeemed humanity? [I will wait for your response, to make sure I understand your present position upon this point.]​

Throughout the Apocalypse, a presiding angel is shown supervising the various visions (Rev. 1:1; 10:9; 11:1; 17:1, 7; 19:9–10; 22:6, 8, 16). Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the revelation he receives, John begins to offer the angel a level of homage that exceeds what is appropriate.

The term worship in Scripture carries a range of meanings. In this context, it refers to worship that belongs to Yahweh alone, even though the same word can also mean to show reverence or obeisance, as in Revelation 3:9.

While the word angel can at times refer to a human messenger, I believe the angel of Revelation 20:1 is the same angel mentioned in Revelation 19:10.

I am not sure what you mean by "political heavens" and "political earth". Are you able to clarify those two phrases in brief, just so that I understand what you have meant in providing them? I did not want to guess at the meaning you have intended there.

It is somewhat concerning that these phrases are unfamiliar to you, as the whole of Revelation centres on the political affairs of the kingdoms of men being replaced by the political, indeed divine rule of Christ and the Saints which constitute the Kingdom of God on Earth.

I should also note that the symbol of “heaven” requires careful attention each time it appears, as understanding it correctly is essential. Heaven is not always a literal reference to God’s throne; it can also represent the ecclesiastical “heavens,” such as the religious systems of the Pharisees in Jesus’ day.

WHAT I CANNOT AGREE TO SO FAR (please always be very careful in reading what I do say, not what I do not say, let none assume, just ask)

You (Hiddenthings) have stated, "It is important to recognize that, up to this point in time, no one has yet been glorified or made a Saint of the Living God; all the Elect, as well as the responsible lost, remain in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection."​

​

Upon these points, I cannot fully agree with you, as I recognize, from scripture that there are a few who have been glorified already (before the second Advent / Coming of Jesus), with some being translated alive, and some being resurrected and taken to heaven (3rd, aka "paradise" of God; Luk. 23:43; 2 Cor. 2:2,4; Rev. 2:7, cited only for the word "paradise" in connection to "the third heaven"), as for instance:​

​

TRANSLATIONS (OT):​

• Enoch (OT) - Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5 KJB
• Elijah (OT) - 2 Kin. 2:1-12 KJB

RESURRECTIONS (OT):​

• Moses (OT) - Num. 20:8-12, 27:13, 31:2; Deu. 4:21-22, 31:2,14,16, 32:51-52, 34:1-8; 1 Sam. 2:6; Mat. 17:1-12; Mar. 9:1-13; Luk. 9:27-36; Jhn. 11:25-26; Rom. 5:14; 2 Pet. 1:16; Jud. 1:9 KJB

Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.​

​

RESURRECTIONS (NT):​

• Jesus (NT) - Eternal Heavenly Trio (JEHOVAH Elohiym) Col. 2:12; 1 Pet. 1:21; 1 Cor. 6:14; Act. 2:24, 3:15, 13:33; Heb. 13:20;

(The Father's actions) Act. 4:10; Eph. 1:20; Rom. 6:4; Gal. 1:1; 1 Thes. 1:10;​

(The Son's actions) Jhn. 2:19, 10:18;​

(The Holy Ghost's actions) Rom. 8:11; 1 Pet. 3:18; See also: Mat. 28:1-20; Mar. 16:1-20; Luk. 24:1-53; Jhn. 20:1-31; 1 Cor. 15:20,23 KJB​

​

Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.​

• Firstfruits (NT) - Mat. 27:50-53, 28:1-4; Isa. 26:19; (for Jesus, see also Psa. 40:6; Heb. 10:5; Gal. 4:4); Psa. 68:8,17-21 (vs 21., see Gen. 3:15); compare Psa. 68:18 to Eph. 4:8-10; & Lev. 23:9-14; 15-22 (Firstfruits) to 1 Cor. 15:21-23. See also Psa. 24:1-10 (Victory Train into New Jerusalem), with Psa. 98:1-3; Col. 2:15. See also Acts 1.

Thus 5 'groups' have been glorified in body already, and have entered into the 3rd Heaven (paradise) alive.​

​

1. Enoch​

2. Moses​

3. Elijah​

4. Jesus​

5. 'Firstfruits'​

For further translations and resurrections, please see Chapter 6, pages 25-26 - Sincerely Dead Dying, To Know Jesus by brother Aaron Earnest : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive​

​

Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:​

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.​

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.​

​

Now, I do not think, at present, that this particular niche point is all that relevant to the text of Rev. 20:1, and therefore, there is no need for us to specifically sidetrack our present study of Rev. 20:1 upon this difference of our positions. However, if you see a need to do so, I am not overly opposed to you / us doing so, but I still think it would be a slight diversion from Rev. 20:1-15 itself none-the-less.

To be continued ...

I could spend a great deal of time refuting this, but if you hold to the idea of people “going to heaven,” our discussion may come to an abrupt end. Scripture does not teach that anyone other than Christ himself has ascended to heaven.

Luke 9 offers you no evidence at all
Enoch days are numbered! Genesis 5:23–24
Elijah was possibly buried in the same manner as Moses.

Christ is the only one to be granted eternal life to this point in time.

 

[ScottA]

This thread's author (myself) believes that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein (Gen. 40:8; Isa. 28;10,13 KJB), and that as a Christian (we / I) should only "amen" what is already given to us therein from God (1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), as the scripture, being inspired of God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order" (1 Cor. 14:40 KJB) and perfect 'timing' (Ecc. 3:1 KJB), and 'cannot lie' (Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18 KJB), and so the word thereFrom, cannot be "broken" (non-contradictory; Jhn. 10:35; Psa. 119:160 KJB). This means I do not believe in, nor subscribe to, "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20 KJB) at all. Therefore, if someone not liking a reply says, 'That is your [meaning 'my'] opinion ...', or something to that effect, they have unjustly mischaracterized my actual position, and present a 'strawman' of their own mind / making in its place, and have ceased from engaging with my actual response and position, and I may point this out in charity, and ask for a differing response. There is only 1 Truth, and it is the Truth of JEHOVAH Elohiym, being of, and belonging, to the LORD God. I do not have a monopoloy on Truth, as the Godhead shares with whomsoever They will.

Hello Adventageous,

It looks like you may take a while getting to the "thousand years" passages. I do want to say that I admire great and lengthy study even if biblically, like so many books, there is "no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh." But, judging from your above paragraph, you are not off to the best of starts.

Having said that, I would also ask you to "Please, in charity (1 Cor. 13 KJB), be kind", etc.

The first issue in the above quote is you state "that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein." --Which is true--but then you imposed a limit to what passages should be included in your study, saying, "God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order." Which is, as you say, subject to "private interpretation"...as it is contrary to : "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7). Thus, everything to follow in your study is rightly suspect. As such, your claim regarding the word of God and confusion, is against your own rational rather than for it.

To clarify, that is, to reconcile and explain--God is indeed the Author of confusion among the affairs of men--but He himself and His purpose is one of order. That is what is biblically true. In any case--your claim is not valid.

As for "private interpretation"--every interpretation among men except One--is private. And it is only the Spirit who reveals "all truth" (John 16:13).

The next issue, while you have acknowledged the Truth of Jehovah--even that His word is inspired--and the strawman, you seem to end without returning to God's established method of inspiring what is indeed true. Does that mean you do not believe the Word, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever?"

Without reestablishing the terms of your opening post as biblically correct--there is no reason to believe the rest of your study is creditable.

 

[ewq1938]

Let us begin with the first verse (Rev. 20:1), and consider it, before moving onward:

Rev 20:1 KJB - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

​

What I see is a literal angel coming from heaven to Earth to perform some tasks. He possesses two forms of control and constraint, a key to a lock of some kind (likely not exactly like human locks but a lock nonetheless) which locks a sealed pit/prison of some kind, and a chain which I feel wraps around a person to completely incapacitate rather than a dog tied to a tree concept.

Neither Jesus or the gospel does any of this. It is an angel that does this and is similar in action to other things angels do in Rev.

 

[Truth7t7]

This is the "Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study" thread.

(NOTE; PLEASE READ AT LEAST THIS POST BEFORE ENGAGING: Please, in charity (1 Cor. 13 KJB), be kind to each other's response in responding (Col. 4:6 KJB), whether one sees another's responses in error or not. This means a person can point out an error (by scripture), or by asking a question for clarification or in attempt to help another see a flaw, but please refrain from accusations, like 'liar' (that is difficult to prove motive of), 'deceiver', 'lost', &c/, like character assassinations, or previous argumentative history with a person (aka 'personal baggage / grievances / grudges'). As those things are unhelpful, and lead away from actual scriptural study. One may use words like correct, incorrect, fact and error, but in a kindly, demonstrative with evidence way.)

Here are the primary texts for study; Rev. 201-15 KJB (King James Bible), highlighting only "a thousand years", "the thousand years" in bold underline.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.​

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.​

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.​

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.​

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,​

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.​

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.​

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.​

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.​

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.​

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

This thread's author (myself) believes that the Bible is defined in the Bible, by God therein (Gen. 40:8; Isa. 28;10,13 KJB), and that as a Christian (we / I) should only "amen" what is already given to us therein from God (1 Pet. 4:11 KJB), as the scripture, being inspired of God (2 Tim. 3;16-17; 2 Pet. 1:21 KJB), is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33 KJB), but of "order" (1 Cor. 14:40 KJB) and perfect 'timing' (Ecc. 3:1 KJB), and 'cannot lie' (Tit. 1:2; Heb. 6:18 KJB), and so the word thereFrom, cannot be "broken" (non-contradictory; Jhn. 10:35; Psa. 119:160 KJB). This means I do not believe in, nor subscribe to, "private interpretation" (2 Pet. 1:20 KJB) at all. Therefore, if someone not liking a reply says, 'That is your [meaning 'my'] opinion ...', or something to that effect, they have unjustly mischaracterized my actual position, and present a 'strawman' of their own mind / making in its place, and have ceased from engaging with my actual response and position, and I may point this out in charity, and ask for a differing response. There is only 1 Truth, and it is the Truth of JEHOVAH Elohiym, being of, and belonging, to the LORD God. I do not have a monopoloy on Truth, as the Godhead shares with whomsoever They will.

Please go slowly, as it is not neccessary to place ones entire theology / eschatological position into a response. This thread is more about studying together, asking honest and sincere questions of one another about their positions held. People may openly disagree with one another, but please do so in a kindly fashion, with stated reasons / evidences for the disagreement. Allow the other respondant time to read, and engage with what is stated. If this thread, for whatever reason (generally satanic influences) becomes a name-calling event, as other threads, I will simply abandon this thread, and ask to have it closed by Moderation / Admin, or ask for a specific individual to be removed from further corrupt influence upon a sincerely intentioned endeavor.

"... be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." - Mat. 10:16 KJB​

Thank you all who participate in the Holy Spirit.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[XtraPercept]

I understand the nature of the defensive structuring about your presentation. It is a brotherly assay, not a religious assault, to evaluate the language as defensive posturing. Perhaps instead we might draw from the well of love, presenting instead our opinions as expressions of a contiguous and unifying faith in a singular Truth.

Perfect love drives out fear, bringing forth instead the boldness of one animated by the real and living power of the God and Father of Jesus Christ.

So it is with utmost confidence that I declare to you that the passages you cite fall categorically under the heading of "deep metaphor," so as to suggest a fullness of access to the meaning is yet to come.

The holy Spirit teaches us all things. Can I teach you how to replace most car and truck alternators in under an hour? Sure, but there are many steps involved that I can't just spell out concisely and expect a reader to perform the task exactly as I do right away.

This is how the Spirit teaches us, as explicitly stated in Isaiah 28:10.

There is no learning without looking up.

But perhaps this might help; readers of Revelation err in seeking external intepretations of a metaphor for an internal process, primarily for lack of experiences requisite for the expansion of the meanings concomitent with Truth.

 

[Adventageous]

@Adventageous, in the past, discussions have become overly long and fragmented, making it difficult to follow a coherent line of thought. How do you suggest we proceed from here? For example, there are three separate replies to post #4. Should we first identify areas of agreement and set those aside, and then focus only on the points of disagreement?

It is up to you, in what you think important enough to respond to / with. My original (#2) posting on Rev. 20:1 was to discuss the words in that text before moving to the next text (Rev. 20:2). As seen here - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

This post (#4) was simply a response to your own consideration of Rev. 20:1, in what I could and could not agree with, along with several questions to you. As seen here - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

This post (#5) was simply to consider the words "And I saw" of Rev. 20:1, as seen here - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

I then awaited your response, to see what you might agree or disagree to, along with an answer to the questions previously asked of you. I wanted to give you time to consider what I shared, as you gave me time to consider what you shared. I am moving onto the words "an angel" next, unless you want to spend more time on who is in Heaven.

I agree that some discussion can become fragmented, which is why in my "What I cannot agree to" section (#4) , I had stated, "Now, I do not think, at present, that this particular niche point is all that relevant to the text of Rev. 20:1, and therefore, there is no need for us to specifically sidetrack our present study of Rev. 20:1 upon this difference of our positions. However, if you see a need to do so, I am not overly opposed to you / us doing so, but I still think it would be a slight diversion from Rev. 20:1-15 itself none-the-less."

So, I left it up to you, whether or not you wanted to respond to my response about your original reply in that matter. I understand that you believe that Jesus is the only one that went up to the 3rd Heaven. I disagree, and cited several scriptures to that effect (also listing Enoch, Moses, Elijah and the 'Firstfruits'). I know that can get detailed, and didn't think it overly-relevant to our discussion of Rev. 20:1-15 per se, and would be willing to save that discussion for elsewhere, and we can link back to it here, or continue it in DM, or drop it altogether. I am not opposed to any avenue of approach on that subject.

I have found it best to list agreements, disagreements, ask questions and then post a stated postion on the next portion of the text, and then wait for response, and continue. In after replies, disagreements can be briefly (or in detail as needful) looked at, and then continue. I do not mind a protracted detour upon a particular point, if it is seen as needful, and we can always agree that after a time of discussion on such, we can move back to the main texts, when we see that the disagreement cannot be resolved immediately.

I leave it up to you, and all, how they actually respond. I will read through as I am able, and respond as I am able, allowing time between responses.

 

[Hiddenthings]

So, I left it up to you, whether or not you wanted to respond to my response about your original reply in that matter. I understand that you believe that Jesus is the only one that went up to the 3rd Heaven.

It seems you do not grasp the use of “third heaven” as it relates to an epoch in which God is all and in all. Remember, as I mentioned earlier, you must interpret the word “heaven” according to its context; otherwise, you risk falling into the same error as above.

I disagree, and cited several scriptures to that effect (also listing Enoch, Moses, Elijah and the 'Firstfruits').

Unfortunately, you were unable to provide the evidence - for instance take Enoch as an example.

Genesis 5:23 – “Thus all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years.”

From the start of his life to his burial - 365 years!

Enoch was taken away from the increasing wickedness and impending judgment, just as the saints will be “taken away” (Matt. 24:40–41). “By faith Enoch was translated, so that he did not experience death” (Heb. 11:5). After 365 years, Enoch did die, typifying sacrifice. The 365 years (cf. 365 days, a complete cycle) signify that, “like the shining sun of righteousness” (Mal. 4:2), he completed his course. Abel typifies Christ’s sacrifice; Enoch, the reward at the Second Coming.

But what of Hebrews 11:5?

Though at first it may appear otherwise, the evidence suggests that Enoch did, in fact, die. He is counted among the early witnesses of faith, as Hebrews 11:13 confirms: “All these people were still living by faith when they died.”

You need to read more carefully Advent! Death reigned over all from Adam to Moses (Rom. 5:14), which would certainly include Enoch. He did not ascend to heaven in a permanent, immortal state (John 3:13; cf. Gen. 5:24).

Yet Enoch received extraordinary visions of the Last Days (Jude 1:14–15), showing God’s special revelation to him. Exactly where he went, and what precisely happened, remains a mystery: “The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children” (Deut. 29:29). There are truths that remain beyond human understanding. He most certainly did not ascend heaven!

By faith Enoch was taken from his life. The word “taken,” rendered translated in the AV, comes from the Greek metatithemi—to transfer, remove, transplant, or change sides. Enoch was removed from one condition or location and placed into another.

He did not experience death, that is, he did not fully comprehend death. Like Moses, Enoch was “put to sleep” in full vigor, spared from witnessing disease, violence, and the decay of old age (cf. Heb. 11:13). Gen. 5:24 notes that he “walked with God,” and Jude 1:14–15 affirms that he testified against the ungodly, namely Lamech, a man of violence from Cain’s line (Gen. 4:23–24). Perhaps God removed Enoch from danger, hiding him in close fellowship, as a reward for his faithfulness (Heb. 11:5–6).

Enoch’s disappearance would have been astonishing, a nine-day wonder (illustrative), provoking search parties and speculation. This event mirrors what will happen in the day of the Lord, when some will be “taken” unexpectedly. Just as Enoch was removed before judgment, so too will God’s faithful be protected during the final tribulation.

Faith, as Hebrews demonstrates, rests on two foundations: belief in the existence of God, and confidence in His purpose for humanity. Faith trusts the unseen, clings to promised things, and comes alive through the Word of God. Enoch’s life, and his translation, exemplify this principle: God honors the faithful, sometimes sparing them from the trials that would overwhelm others, and in doing so, provides a living testimony to His power and purpose.

God took him away, translated him, not to deny life, but to place him into the protective care of His will, a model of hope for all who walk faithfully with Him.

The evidence presented is more than sufficient, and in light of recognizing your error, you should be concerned about what other misconceptions you may hold.

As a side I would very much like to teach you the truth concerning the 3rd heaven but that is another study in itself.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Adventageous

What’s fascinating about studying Enoch is that my beliefs adhere strictly to the Scriptures, whereas yours rely on the “heaven-going” doctrine, a concept introduced through the speculations of early Church Fathers like Tertullian and Origen, who incorporated the Greek notion of the soul’s immortality.

Hebrews 11 puts this false teaching to rest.

39 And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40 since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Heb 11:39–40.

Still in the dust awaiting the resurrection - all of them!...Enoch included!

 

[Adventageous]

Throughout the Apocalypse, a presiding angel is shown supervising the various visions (Rev. 1:1; 10:9; 11:1; 17:1, 7; 19:9–10; 22:6, 8, 16). Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the revelation he receives, John begins to offer the angel a level of homage that exceeds what is appropriate.

The term worship in Scripture carries a range of meanings. In this context, it refers to worship that belongs to Yahweh alone, even though the same word can also mean to show reverence or obeisance, as in Revelation 3:9.

While the word angel can at times refer to a human messenger, I believe the angel of Revelation 20:1 is the same angel mentioned in Revelation 19:10.



It is somewhat concerning that these phrases are unfamiliar to you, as the whole of Revelation centres on the political affairs of the kingdoms of men being replaced by the political, indeed divine rule of Christ and the Saints which constitute the Kingdom of God on Earth.

I should also note that the symbol of “heaven” requires careful attention each time it appears, as understanding it correctly is essential. Heaven is not always a literal reference to God’s throne; it can also represent the ecclesiastical “heavens,” such as the religious systems of the Pharisees in Jesus’ day.


I could spend a great deal of time refuting this, but if you hold to the idea of people “going to heaven,” our discussion may come to an abrupt end. Scripture does not teach that anyone other than Christ himself has ascended to heaven.

Luke 9 offers you no evidence at all
Enoch days are numbered! Genesis 5:23–24
Elijah was possibly buried in the same manner as Moses.

Christ is the only one to be granted eternal life to this point in time.

Ok. Thank you for your replies.

Since I have not yet come to the phrase "an angel" yet in my responses, I will leave the bulk of the detail for that reply (to come shortly).

WHAT I CAN AGREE TO:

I agree that throughout the Revelation of Jesus Christ, there is a 'presiding angel' (whom I know as 'Gabriel', but that is neither here nor there at the moment) in Rev. 1:1, 11:1, 17:1,7, 19:9-10, mentioned in Rev. 22:6,8-9,16. (I do not agree that the reference in Rev. 10:1,9 is this same angel, more consideration in a moment). Yes, I agree that the angel mentioned in the agreed to texts is a created being of the heavenly host and is not to be worshipped, as per Rev. 19:10, 22:9 KJB, which is similar to Peter's event with Cornelius in Act. 10:25-26 KJB.

I can agree that the English term "worship" does carry a range of meaning, as does the Hebrew & koine Greek words underlying the English translation. I can agree that context is always key to its proper meaning, understanding and use.

I can agree that the use of the word "worship" in Rev. 3:9 is not the same definitional use as belongs to JEHOVAH Elohiym alone, and in such case there, refers to the bowing down of the heathen to the righteous in acknowledgment of God's victory in them. This is similarly used in Dan. 2:46, or in Pro. 14:19 KJB, &c.

I can agree that actual "worship" in reverential homage is due to JEHOVAH Elohiym (the Creators) alone, and not to any creature.

I can agree that the word "angel" simply means "messenger" and refers to a position of office (like the words "king", "priest" and/or "prophet" also do), not a nature and is applied to Heavenly beings (created and not-created), and earthly beings (created, such as human beings), among other things like even the (created) elements, and lesser (created) creatures that JEHOVAH Elohiym sends. I shall provide more detail in a post to come on the phrase "an angel" (Rev. 20:1 KJB) shortly.

I can agree that the English word "Heaven" can be defined in both a literal / physical sense (as in the 1st heaven (aka "sky" where the fowl fly; Gen. 1:20), 2nd heaven (aka local Sol system, where the Sun, moon and local 'stars' (local Sol system 'planets') are; Gen. 1:14-18; 2 Kin. 23:5) and 3rd heaven (aka 'paradise' the physical world where JEHOVAH Elohiym lives above; Luk. 23:43; 2 Cor. 12:2,4; Rev. 2:7, &c.), as well as in a spiritual / metaphorical / symbolical sense (Rev. 12:1,3-4, 14:6, &c.), and in some cases a dual use (Rev. 12:7).

I can agree that there are varying degrees of rulership ("political", as you have used) in Heaven (3rd) and on earth (Col. 1:16 KJB, &c.).

I can agree that 99% of people that have died, have not entered Heaven (3rd), but remain in their graves, until their respective resurrection. I did make this clear in my previous response, when I said (post #4), "I can agree that most (not all, see below) of the 'saved' are "in the sleep of death (dust), awaiting the resurrection" (as you have stated), and some are still alive at present living upon the face of the earth now. (citing 1 Thes. 4:15-17) - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

I can agree that in Gen. 5:21-23, the "days" of "Enoch" are therein (as you have said) "numbered". That numbering is on earth previous to Gen. 5:24 in God taking him by "translation". In other words, Enoch lived 365 years on earth before being translated alive and taken to heaven (3rd). I also cited Heb. 11:5 as a reference in my #4 post - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

Heb_11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.​

Thus Enoch is still very much alive (in the 3rd heaven, dwelling upon one of the unfallen worlds) and by earth standards is now several thousand years 'old' (though now immortal youth).

... to be continued ...

 

[Adventageous]

Throughout the Apocalypse, a presiding angel is shown supervising the various visions (Rev. 1:1; 10:9; 11:1; 17:1, 7; 19:9–10; 22:6, 8, 16). Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the revelation he receives, John begins to offer the angel a level of homage that exceeds what is appropriate.

The term worship in Scripture carries a range of meanings. In this context, it refers to worship that belongs to Yahweh alone, even though the same word can also mean to show reverence or obeisance, as in Revelation 3:9.

While the word angel can at times refer to a human messenger, I believe the angel of Revelation 20:1 is the same angel mentioned in Revelation 19:10.



It is somewhat concerning that these phrases are unfamiliar to you, as the whole of Revelation centres on the political affairs of the kingdoms of men being replaced by the political, indeed divine rule of Christ and the Saints which constitute the Kingdom of God on Earth.

I should also note that the symbol of “heaven” requires careful attention each time it appears, as understanding it correctly is essential. Heaven is not always a literal reference to God’s throne; it can also represent the ecclesiastical “heavens,” such as the religious systems of the Pharisees in Jesus’ day.


I could spend a great deal of time refuting this, but if you hold to the idea of people “going to heaven,” our discussion may come to an abrupt end. Scripture does not teach that anyone other than Christ himself has ascended to heaven.

Luke 9 offers you no evidence at all
Enoch days are numbered! Genesis 5:23–24
Elijah was possibly buried in the same manner as Moses.

Christ is the only one to be granted eternal life to this point in time.

... continued ...


WHAT I CANNOT AGREE TO:

I cannot agree that the 'angel' of Rev. 19:10 is the same as that "an angel" mentioned in Rev. 20:1. I shall come to this momentarily in another response when addressing the phrase "an angel" in Rev. 20:1.

I cannot agree that the name of the "Ancient of Days" (Dan. 7:9,13,22 KJB), being the Person / being of the Father, is "YAHWEH", which is a corruption from German into English pronunciation by those who did not understand German consonantal pronunciation; but is and has always been "JEHOVAH", as demonstrated from linguistics, Rabbincal writings, Christian writings, and historical use, as seen in Chapter 2, pages 20-43 - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

I do not agree that the terms "political heavens" and "political earth" are "concerning" as being "unfamiliar", as in all my years of Bible study, and listening to many and varied persons from a great deal of differing belief systems, have never heard the exact terms used. You are the first, and only, person I have ever heard those terms used from, and in your reply the first time I have ever seen them in print. This is why I asked you for a more specific definition of them, so that I understand what you have meant by them, as the Bible (KJB) does not directly use those phrases. Thank you for your response in relation to that inquiry.

I cannot agree that, (as you have said), "Luke 9 offers you no evidence at all". It offers plenty in plain language which was highlighted, along with the other texts provided, in their proper contexts, to be studied as needful.

I cannot agree that, (as you have said), "Elijah was possibly buried in the same manner as Moses.", as there is no scriptural statement to that effect, and very much that states, very plainly, in opposition to that, as I have cited, "2 Kin. 2:1-12 KJB" in reply #4 - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

2Ki_2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.​

2Ki_2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.​

The "chariot" is simply a way to describe a vehicle of travel. The word "fire" means "light", such as electrical current, lightning, energy, glowing, powered, etc. Horses are simply a way to describe that which moves a chariot, like as we use the words "horsepower" for modern engines today, whether in a ground vehicle (car, &c.), water vehicle (boat. &c.), or sky vehicle (plane, &c.). The "horsemen" are the heavenly created messengers themselves that pilot the heavenly vehicles. Elijah was translated as Enoch was, when word comparison is used between the passages. Elijah is seen very much alive and in "glory" in Luk. (as well as Mat. & Mar. recountings). Both are typological of the final group (alive at the coming of Jesus) to be translated alive without seing death (1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thes. 4:15,17 KJB, &c.). More details may be provided, this is simply a very brief summary,

I cannot agree that, (as you have said) "Christ is the only one to be granted eternal life to this point in time." as the texts and context thereof I have previously provided show otherwise. Thus the 5 'groups' (Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus & 'Firstfruits') are in the 3rd Heaven. As stated previously, this is a niche point, and not required for our study of Rev. 20:1-15. If you desire to not continue with this point of discussion, that is fine, we may disagree upon it and move on, or discuss it further here, or discuss it elsewhere. I would recommend that it be kept separate from other posts on Rev. 20, if it is to be continued in discussion here. This is only a recommendation however.

WHAT I CAN RESPOND TO:

If you feel you need to leave, simply because of a disagreement upon a theological point, that is your prerogative, and I will not beg you to remain. All are free to come or go as they feel they need to. This is an open Bible study, and all are welcome to join in (as in participate in replying), simply to read (and not participate in reply), or to come or go as they please. Please keep in mind what I have said, repeatedly, as in (post #4) "(please always be very careful in reading what I do say, not what I do not say, let none assume, just ask) - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study"

 

[Adventageous]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I am glad that you are participating. Thank you for your response. I understand your question, but if you do not mind, I will be answering it when I get to those particular verses. As of right now, I have only completed "And I saw", and am about to address "an angel" of Rev. 20:1. So there is a bit of ways to go yet. :)

I pray you do not find the waiting too long to receive your answer.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Thus Enoch is still very much alive (in the 3rd heaven, dwelling upon one of the unfallen worlds) and by earth standards is now several thousand years 'old' (though now immortal youth).

The evidence in Posts #13 and #14 clearly shows that your “heaven-going” interpretation has no basis in these events. I will assume you had prepared this post in ignorance of the evidence as stated above.

 

[Hiddenthings]

WHAT I CAN RESPOND TO:

If you feel you need to leave, simply because of a disagreement upon a theological point, that is your prerogative, and I will not beg you to remain. All are free to come or go as they feel they need to. This is an open Bible study, and all are welcome to join in (as in particiapte in replying), simply to read (and not participate in reply), or to come or go as they please. Please keep in mind what I have said, repeatedly, as in (post #4) "(please always be very careful in reading what I do say, not what I do not say, let none assume, just ask) - Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study"

It seems you prefer to argue without presenting evidence, and your failure to engage with the evidence already provided has been duly noted.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I do not agree that the terms "political heavens" and "political earth" are "concerning" as being "unfamiliar", as in all my years of Bible study, and listening to many and varied persons from a great deal of differing belief systems, have never heard the exact terms used. You are the first, and only, person I have ever heard those terms used from, and in your reply the first time I have ever seen them in print. This is why I asked you for a more specific definition of them, so that I understand what you have meant by them, as the Bible (KJB) does not directly use those phrases. Thank you for your response in relation to that inquiry.

This portion of your reply acknowledges your need to gain a deeper understanding of the Revelation and its true meaning. If you are unfamiliar with the political matters presented by the Revelation, it serves as an admission that the mysteries of the book have not yet been revealed to you.

Are the political matters in Daniel’s prophecy also unfamiliar to you?