Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[saved by grace 101]

I offer you sripture...
You offer personal questions.

Is it so difficult to reply to my scripture?

AFTER salvation...are we required to obey God?

A simple yes or no will do.

Why are you not responding to a list of Gods laws you say MUST be obeyed/obedience is required, is there a reason you are reluctant to address them?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Here's what salvation hinges on:

1. Belief on God.
2. Obedience to God.


We need both.


Now to your verses:


Romans 3:20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no * flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

We are not saved by our good deeds.
Have stated this a couple of times now.


1 John 3:4
4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Of course.
John learned this from Jesus, who stated:

Matthew 7:23
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Jesus explains WHY He never knew them...
because they practiced lawlessness.



And if we read just a few verses down John states:

1 John 3:7-8
7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

We are told by John to practice righteousness.
We are told that if we practice sin we are of the devil.
John tells us that Jesus appeared to destroy the works of the devil.......
that would be sin.

Sin is DISOBEDIENCE to God. The very difinition of sin.

BTW
Concerning your quotes from 1John3. If a person claims to be a christian but three months after making that claim say still gets drunk every night, still beats their wife, still is a habitual thief, and still constantly uses foul language they are not in a saved state, and in my view never were, they are living a wanton sinfull lifestyle, or practicing sin, or being what Paul terms a slave to sin.
However, you have stated to me we MUST obey the TC/God's laws and Christ's teaching. And you know as well as I do you cannot in honesty look at that list I put up and say you even try and follow all of those commands. So I am afraid, you do not practice what you preach/insist of others. Matt23:2&3 would be a good read for you. And so, according to your oft used statements of we MUST you commit sin and are disobedient aren't you. But do you believe you are still in a saved state?

 

[Brakelite]

So if I quote the plain words of scripture three times what is written in it does not make it right?
Youve never received a reply to your question. Lol, you won't answer any questions I've asked you, you just start bearing false witness in order to deflect away from answering. But I will answer it, same way Lizbeth answered it to you
Under the OC you MUST
Under the new covenant, you WANT to obey.
It is how you obey you do not understand

Interesting. You don't obey the 4th commandment because you believe it to be voided by the Holy Spirit and spiritualized 24/7. Yet I do obey the commandment as best I can with the Lord's help, (as in every commandment) and you justify your authority to countermand God's specific commandment by judging my motives. Are you God now that you can judge my motive for observing the sabbath?
This sounds great...

Its a strange thing, but whether outside of the internet or in it, it is always the same, those who keep stating you MUST obey God's laws/TC can casually transgress those laws in a way I have never been able to do so. Yes, I can commit sin, the same as we all do, but NOT without conscience, or as casually as those do who insist the law MUST be obeyed

But again you are judging. I casually transgress laws without conscience? You are so clever to know the inner workings of a man's spirit.

BTW this entire thread was a query regarding the Ten Commandments' relevance to today's Christian. No one has explained how or when or who authorized the change whereby a literal observation of the 4th commandment is voided by a 'spiritual' observation. This is particularly pertinent when one considers the impossibility of a 'spiritual' observation of other commandments without the literal counterpart.

 

[GodsGrace]

Once again I see I am the only one prepared to answer questions put
The believer is required to live under a righteousness of faith in Christ(as I told you)
The believer must die to righteousness of obeying the law(as I also told you)
Obedience is required via faith(as I told you also)
However, all believers stand guilty before God's laws, you me and everyone else
So, when you say we MUST obey God's laws, you fail the test
The believer in their heart already desires to live as God requires them to live. Your statements mean righteousness of obeying the law, and you fail that test

I believe the problem here is that you are not distinguishing between
THE LAW
and
OBEYING GOD.

Everyone on this thread knows that the Law was abolished 2 thousand years ago.
Obedience to God will never be abolished.

I've offered sufficient verses.

 

[GodsGrace]

Why are you not responding to a list of Gods laws you say MUST be obeyed/obedience is required, is there a reason you are reluctant to address them?

I reply to scripture and theology.
A list is neither.

 

[GodsGrace]

BTW
Concerning your quotes from 1John3. If a person claims to be a christian but three months after making that claim say still gets drunk every night, still beats their wife, still is a habitual thief, and still constantly uses foul language they are not in a saved state, and in my view never were, they are living a wanton sinfull lifestyle, or practicing sin, or being what Paul terms a slave to sin.

I agree.
Because when we become born again...
we must obey God.

If we do not obey God,,,,
we are not born again and His wrath remains on us.
John 3:36

However, you have stated to me we MUST obey the TC/God's laws and Christ's teaching.

Yes sir.
This is what Jesus taught.

Matthew 7:21
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

And you know as well as I do you cannot in honesty look at that list I put up and say you even try and follow all of those commands. So I am afraid, you do not practice what you preach

You do not know what I practice.

Jesus' commandments are easy to follow:


1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.


John teaches that we can know we are children of God because we observe/obey His commandments.
And His commandments are not burdensome.

/insist of others. Matt23:2&3 would be a good read for you. And so, according to your oft used statements of we MUST you commit sin and are disobedient aren't you. But do you believe you are still in a saved state?

Can't stick to scripture can you?
I do wonder why.

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting. You don't obey the 4th commandment because you believe it to be voided by the Holy Spirit and spiritualized 24/7. Yet I do obey the commandment as best I can with the Lord's help, (as in every commandment) and you justify your authority to countermand God's specific commandment by judging my motives. Are you God now that you can judge my motive for observing the sabbath?
This sounds great...

But again you are judging. I casually transgress laws without conscience? You are so clever to know the inner workings of a man's spirit.

BTW this entire thread was a query regarding the Ten Commandments' relevance to today's Christian. No one has explained how or when or who authorized the change whereby a literal observation of the 4th commandment is voided by a 'spiritual' observation. This is particularly pertinent when one considers the impossibility of a 'spiritual' observation of other commandments without the literal counterpart.

Brakelite
The 4th commandment has caused much contemplation in m Christian walk.
Here is the conflict as I see it: (not to change the subject - just an observance)
Observing the Sabbath would fall under the Ceremonial Law which has been abolished.
However: It IS one of the 10 commandments which God said are everlasting.

 

[Grailhunter]

Laws----Mosaic Laws----Old Testament Laws and Commandments do not pertain to Christians.
Laws are a system, a concept that is severe cruel and unforgiving. The concept and nature of laws to not follow into the New Testament.
Yeshua did away with that system. Those in the Old Testament when they sinned it was against Yahweh....when we sin it is against Yeshua and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us. But don't make the mistake of thinking that it is a license to sin, Christ is no fool.
613 Mosaic Laws....Laws that regulated polygamy and concubinage----selling daughters as sex slave...Killing women that were not virgins....killing babies....killing women that were raped....etc. These Laws do not pertain to Christians. But there are morals that carry forward into the New Testament and if so stated in the New Testament they are Christan morals.

The typic of Old Testament sin vs New Testament sin can be confusing. Maybe we should open a thread on it and on the topic of Grace, as in what it is and what it does. I will give you a hint, when the veil tore in two when Christ passed on the cross is an example of Grace....it affect, what it does, and why.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Interesting. You don't obey the 4th commandment because you believe it to be voided by the Holy Spirit and spiritualized 24/7.

Interesting because it is plainly written in the new covenant era obeying a specific Saturday Sabbath is not required, you omitted to mention that, just as it is plainly written in the new covenant era ALL food is clean.

 

[GodsGrace]

Laws----Mosaic Laws----Old Testament Laws and Commandments do not pertain to Christians.
Laws are a system, a concept that is severe cruel and unforgiving. The concept and nature of laws to not follow into the New Testament.
Yeshua did away with that system. Those in the Old Testament when they sinned it was against Yahweh....when we sin it is against Yeshua and if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us. But don't make the mistake of thinking that it is a license to sin, Christ is no fool.
613 Mosaic Laws....Laws that regulated polygamy and concubinage----selling daughters as sex slave...Killing women that were not virgins....killing babies....killing women that were raped....etc. These Laws do not pertain to Christians. But there are morals that carry forward into the New Testament and if so stated in the New Testament they are Christan morals.

The typic of Old Testament sin vs New Testament sin can be confusing. Maybe we should open a thread on it and on the topic of Grace, as in what it is and what it does. I will give you a hint, when the veil tore in two when Christ passed on the cross is an example of Grace....it affect, what it does, and why.

Yahweh and Yeshua are the same.
If we sin against Yeshua, we're sinning against God.
This statement is made because of the misunderstanding of the Trinity.
If we don't get all of theology correct...then we won't fully understand it.

The 613 laws have not all been abloshed.
Ten remain.
The Moral Law will never be abolished because Jesus spoke to it and He maintained it.

What was abolished were the LAWS of Moses.
When Jesus forgave the adulterous woman....
He was stating that the LAW of stoning her was abolished.

But Jesus also made the MORAL Law more stringent, not less.
He taught that we had to obey it WITH THE HEART....
not just obey it.

Following rules will get no one saved...
but following and obeying Jesus will.

What is grace?
It's just God's mercy toward us which cannot be earned.
He will have mercy on everyone that loves and follows His Son.

I read a book on grace many years ago.
It doesn't seem to complicated to me.....
it's simply the love God shows toward His human creation.

But God is also JUST.
And will give to us what we deserve.


Romans 2:5-6
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:


John 5:28-29
28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

 

[saved by grace 101]

I believe the problem here is that you are not distinguishing between
THE LAW
and
OBEYING GOD.

Everyone on this thread knows that the Law was abolished 2 thousand years ago.
Obedience to God will never be abolished.

I've offered sufficient verses.

And yet you say we MUST obey the TC/Christ's teaching, we MUST. So, for you, that is what obedience entails, youve made that quite clear to me. And sin and disobedience is not accepted.
You see, applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer, meaning in their mind they know what that law is. You cannot hide from law in your most inward parts.
So, you cannot respond to that list I put up, because if you were prepared to be honest, you dont even try and obey many of those commands do you! So the truth is, according to what you have been writing, you com mit sin and disobedience yourself concerning commands you say MUST be obeyed. Now Im sure you believe you are still in a saved state. How come you have one rule for everyone else and another rule for yourself? Sin and disobedience will not be acceptable unless it is by you?
I think you should reflect on the following. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they preached/insisted of others. Have a read of Matt23

 

[GodsGrace]

Interesting because it is plainly written in the new covenant era obeying a specific Saturday Sabbath is not required, you omitted to mention that, just as it is plainly written in the new covenant era ALL food is clean.

Slight difference:

Where, in the 10 Commandments, does it state not to ear a particular food?
Nowhere.

It DOES state that we are to keep Holy the Lord's Day.

That day could be debated.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Slight difference:

Where, in the 10 Commandments, does it state not to ear a particular food?
Nowhere.

It DOES state that we are to keep Holy the Lord's Day.

That day could be debated.

Still asking questions but not prepared to answer any. There's nothing new under the sun

 

[GodsGrace]

And yet you say we MUST obey the TC/Christ's teaching, we MUST. So, for you, that is what obedience entails, youve made that quite clear to me. And sin and disobedience is not accepted.
You see, applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer, meaning in their mind they know what that law is. You cannot hide from law in your most inward parts.
So, you cannot respond to that list I put up, because if you were prepared to be honest, you dont even try and obey many of those commands do you! So the truth is, according to what you have been writing, you com mit sin and disobedience yourself concerning commands you say MUST be obeyed. Now Im sure you believe you are still in a saved state. How come you have one rule for everyone else and another rule for yourself? Sin and disobedience will not be acceptable unless it is by you?
I think you should reflect on the following. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they preached/insisted of others. Have a read of Matt23

Correct. They did not practice what they preached. (The Pharisees).
We are to practice what we preach.

And yes, obedience is not a choice...
it is a MUST.

Jesus said those that did not ACT on His words were the foolish:


Matthew 7: 26-27
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."


Jesus made His teachings very clear.....
Those who do not ACT on His words are foolish.....

The rain will come and their house will fall.

We must act on the words of Jesus...
on what He taught.

No choice.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Correct. They did not practice what they preached. (The Pharisees).
We are to practice what we preach.

And yes, obedience is not a choice...
it is a MUST.

Jesus said those that did not ACT on His words were the foolish:


Matthew 7: 26-27
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."


Jesus made His teachings very clear.....
Those who do not ACT on His words are foolish.....

The rain will come and their house will fall.

We must act on the words of Jesus...
on what He taught.

No choice.

Read it again, SLOWLY:
And yet you say we MUST obey the TC/Christ's teaching, we MUST. So, for you, that is what obedience entails, youve made that quite clear to me. And sin and disobedience is not accepted.
You see, applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer, meaning in their mind they know what that law is. You cannot hide from law in your most inward parts.
So, you cannot respond to that list I put up, because if you were prepared to be honest, you dont even try and obey many of those commands do you! So the truth is, according to what you have been writing, you com mit sin and disobedience yourself concerning commands you say MUST be obeyed. Now Im sure you believe you are still in a saved state. How come you have one rule for everyone else and another rule for yourself? Sin and disobedience will not be acceptable unless it is by you?
I think you should reflect on the following. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they preached/insisted of others. Have a read of Matt23

 

[saved by grace 101]

Correct. They did not practice what they preached. (The Pharisees).
We are to practice what we preach.

And yes, obedience is not a choice...
it is a MUST.

Jesus said those that did not ACT on His words were the foolish:


Matthew 7: 26-27
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell -and great was its fall."


Jesus made His teachings very clear.....
Those who do not ACT on His words are foolish.....

The rain will come and their house will fall.

We must act on the words of Jesus...
on what He taught.

No choice.

I can keep putting this up as much as is needed. You say we MUST obey Christ's teaching and the TC. It is sin and disobedience not to do so. That is not acceptable. Yet you do not even try and obey much of that list I put up do you, if you were prepared to be honest. So, you yourself are committing sin and disobedience. But Im sure you believe you are still saved. So how come you have one rule for you and a different rule for everyone else?

 

[GodsGrace]

Read it again, SLOWLY:
And yet you say we MUST obey the TC/Christ's teaching, we MUST. So, for you, that is what obedience entails, youve made that quite clear to me. And sin and disobedience is not accepted.

Yes sir.
Sin and disobedience is not accepted.
This is why it must be CONFESSED.

You see, applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer, meaning in their mind they know what that law is. You cannot hide from law in your most inward parts.

Agreed.

So, you cannot respond to that list I put up, because if you were prepared to be honest, you dont even try and obey many of those commands do you!

You must be God.
Always judging and telling others what they think and what they do.

So the truth is, according to what you have been writing, you com mit sin and disobedience yourself concerning commands you say MUST be obeyed. Now Im sure you believe you are still in a saved state. How come you have one rule for everyone else and another rule for yourself? Sin and disobedience will not be acceptable unless it is by you?

Please post the rule I have for everyone else and not for myself.
Please post THE RULE you're speaking of.

I think you should reflect on the following. Jesus reserved his harshest words for the religious who did not practice what they preached/insisted of others. Have a read of Matt23

Agreed.
We must practice what we preach.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can keep putting this up as much as is needed. You say we MUST obey Christ's teaching and the TC. It is sin and disobedience not to do so. That is not acceptable. Yet you do not even try and obey much of that list I put up do you,

Are you a non-intelligent person?
Are you omni-present? Like God - you know what everyone does?

How about forgetting your dumb list and responding to and with scritpure.

if you were prepared to be honest. So, you yourself are committing sin and disobedience. But Im sure you believe you are still saved. So how come you have one rule for you and a different rule for everyone else?

When you want to have an INTELLIGENT conversation,,,,
use scripture and reply to questions.

 

[saved by grace 101]

Yes sir.
Sin and disobedience is not accepted.
This is why it must be CONFESSED.


Agreed.

You must be God.
Always judging and telling others what they think and what they do.

Please post the rule I have for everyone else and not for myself.
Please post THE RULE you're speaking of.

Agreed.
We must practice what we preach.

I can keep putting this up as much as is needed. You say we MUST obey Christ's teaching and the TC. It is sin and disobedience not to do so. That is not acceptable. Yet you do not even try and obey much of that list I put up do you, if you were prepared to be honest. So, you yourself are committing sin and disobedience. But Im sure you believe you are still saved. So how come you have one rule for you and a different rule for everyone else?

 

[saved by grace 101]

Are you a non-intelligent person?
Are you omni-present? Like God - you know what everyone does?

How about forgetting your dumb list and responding to and with scritpure.

When you want to have an INTELLIGENT conversation,,,,
use scripture and reply to questions.

Then tell me you obey all of those commands I placed before you. Bit of a difficult position for you isnt it. No one would believe you if you said you did, but to admit to sin and disobedience concerning them shows hypocrisy