Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

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Hiddenthings

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I provided the texts in the response you responded to. Did you not see those references? I shall provide some more again below. Lucifer has many names, even as Jesus has many names.
Do you see how you’re making these presumptuous assumptions with absolutely no supporting evidence at all?

I doubt that any honest believer in the supernatural, fallen-angel devil theory would agree with such a poor and inaccurate commentary on this subject.

Provide one piece of evidence connecting Lucifer with the following:

1. A fallen Angel
2. Revelation 20
3. That this is one of many names for a fallen angel

You even acknowledge Isaiah 14 is speaking about the King of Babylon and then you make these rash unfounded leaps without a shred of evidence.
 

Hiddenthings

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Lucifer was actually once in Heaven (3rd), aka "Paradise of God" (Rev. 2:7 KJB) or "Eden the garden of God" (Eze. 28:13 KJB),
Wow this is horrendous!

So you’ve taken the contexts of Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, and Revelation 2:7, forced them together, and then imposed your own non-biblical assumptions onto all three passages.

Isaiah 14 - King of Babylon
Ezek 28 - King of Tyre
Revelation 2:7 - speaking to the hope of Ephesus

Not only do you have zero credibility your commentary is so far removed from truth you may as well write your own Bible.

You need to stop and heed its warning! Rev 22:18-19
 

Hiddenthings

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There is much you appear not to understand, and the approach you’re taking suggests a lack of teachability. Perhaps long-held assumptions possibly reinforced over time by SDA doctrines, have made it difficult to approach Scripture with the humility needed to learn afresh. What you have accepted as “truth” now seems to be the very foundation of the error you’re building upon.
 

Adventageous

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There is much you appear not to understand, and the approach you’re taking suggests a lack of teachability. Perhaps long-held assumptions possibly reinforced over time by SDA doctrines, have made it difficult to approach Scripture with the humility needed to learn afresh. What you have accepted as “truth” now seems to be the very foundation of the error you’re building upon.
So, is that a, "No" to my question?
 

Hiddenthings

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No, I provided parallels in the book. Feel free to read the book and linked materials, or not, as you choose.
No, thank you. You’ve already demonstrated how loose your exegesis is, and I couldn’t read a book that imposes unbiblical notions onto the Word in the way you do.
 

Hiddenthings

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It’s worth noting that you cannot acknowledge that the word Lucifer does not appear in Revelation 20, and that much, perhaps 90% of your points are purely inferred. Most of what you write lacks supporting evidence, and your unwillingness to admit this speaks volumes.
 

Hiddenthings

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Here is a challenge for you @Adventageous

"That he should deceive the nations no more" Rev 20:3

Show me the identity of the one who you believe deceives the Nations.

If you’re convinced it’s Lucifer, then present your evidence. And don’t just quote Scripture—demonstrate that you can discern the spiritual meaning within the context of the text itself. Let’s see whether this can be approached with genuine integrity in study.

Maybe you can show us in the Gospels; the Masters ministry where he sat the disciples down to discuss this fallen angel?

Can you do this?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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@Spiritual Israelite

Here is a more detailed explanation of the above:

“A New Heaven and a New Earth”: Renewal, Not Replacement

When John writes, “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1), he is not describing the annihilation of the physical universe, but the transformation of human society under divine rule. This vision is inseparably connected to the scene of the previous chapter, where John observes that “the earth and the heaven fled away” from before the throne (Revelation 20:11). The language is unmistakably symbolic, pointing not to cosmic destruction, but to the removal of an old order to make way for a new and perfected one.

Scripture consistently uses “heaven and earth” as political and covenantal imagery.

This is where @Adventageous study goes astray, and why his identification of the adversary and false accuser in verse 2 is fundamentally incorrect.

Moses calls Israel’s rulers and people to witness using the same language: “Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak; and let the earth hear the words of my mouth” (Deuteronomy 32:1). Isaiah echoes this symbolism when describing societal renewal: “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth” (Isaiah 65:17). These are not astronomical statements, but declarations of divinely ordered governance and community.

The permanence of the literal creation is affirmed elsewhere without ambiguity:

“One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever” (Ecclesiastes 1:4).

God Himself declares that He “created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited” (Isaiah 45:18). A theology that requires the destruction of the physical earth stands in tension with these affirmations.

Revelation 21:1 continues: “For the first heaven and the first earth were passed away.” The Greek word translated first is better rendered former, as it is elsewhere in the same chapter (v. 4). This passing away refers to the former order of things, not the planet itself. Revelation 20:11 makes this clear: the fleeing occurs before the presence of divine judgment. If the literal heavens and earth were incapable of standing before God’s glory, they would never have existed at all, for “the whole earth is full of his glory” (Isaiah 6:3).

The timing is critical. The new heaven and earth emerge after the millennium, when death itself is destroyed: “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death” (1 Corinthians 15:26). Only then can it be said, “There shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4). This is not millennial administration, but post-millennial perfection.

Paul alludes to this same future order when he speaks of being caught up to “the third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2)—not a geographical location, but a vision of ultimate divine rule. Scripture reveals three successive “heavens and earths”:
  1. The first—the Mosaic constitution, the Kingdom of God centered in Israel: “Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth” (Isaiah 1:2). This order ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (cf. 2 Peter 3:7).
  2. The second—the restored Kingdom at Christ’s return, for which the apostles longed: “Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?” (Acts 1:6).
  3. The third—the perfected Kingdom, when Christ delivers all things to the Father: “Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God… that God may be all in all” (1 Corinthians 15:24, 28).
This final “new heaven and new earth” is not escape from the world, but the healing of it. It is the full manifestation of the New Jerusalem descending from God, not souls ascending to heaven. As Revelation declares, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man” (Revelation 21:3).

The biblical hope is not obliteration, but restoration, order, and life without death. The vision of Revelation is not the end of the earth, but the beginning of the world as God always intended it to be.
Total nonsense. Jesus is going to return and renew heaven and earth by fire, resulting in the new heavens and new earth, just as Peter indicated in 2 Peter 3:10-13. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that Peter was speaking figuratively in 2nd Peter 3, so I find your argument to be extremely weak and unconvincing.
 

Hiddenthings

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Total nonsense. Jesus is going to return and renew heaven and earth by fire, resulting in the new heavens and new earth, just as Peter indicated in 2 Peter 3:10-13. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate that Peter was speaking figuratively in 2nd Peter 3, so I find your argument to be extremely weak and unconvincing.
How do we know in 2 Peter 3 that its not the literal earth in view?
 

Davidpt

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Do you see how you’re making these presumptuous assumptions with absolutely no supporting evidence at all?

I doubt that any honest believer in the supernatural, fallen-angel devil theory would agree with such a poor and inaccurate commentary on this subject.

Provide one piece of evidence connecting Lucifer with the following:

1. A fallen Angel
2. Revelation 20
3. That this is one of many names for a fallen angel

You even acknowledge Isaiah 14 is speaking about the King of Babylon and then you make these rash unfounded leaps without a shred of evidence.

I tend to think there might be a connection to 2 Thessalonians 2:4. But I don't take the one meant in that verse to be meaning satan.
 

Hiddenthings

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I tend to think there might be a connection to 2 Thessalonians 2:4. But I don't take the one meant in that verse to be meaning satan.
The issue in Rev 20 is correctly identifying the symbol and Advent so far has failed to do this successfully.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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How do we know in 2 Peter 3 that its not the literal earth in view?
It is the literal earth in view. The future fiery destruction of the earth is compared directly to the global flood in 2 Peter 3:6-7 because both are literal, physical, global events.
 

Hiddenthings

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It is the literal earth in view. The future fiery destruction of the earth is compared directly to the global flood in 2 Peter 3:6-7 because both are literal, physical, global events.
Let me explain.

When you read this verse can you answer the question "what are the former things"

21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. Re 21:1.

First you need to understand what is meant by new heaven and earth.
Then you need to understand in what way did this former (KJV) heaven and earth cease to exist. ἀπῆλθαν [apēlthan]

If we approach this as literal, then God's throne room (Heaven) and the Earth are entirely removed and the comment about the sea makes no sense whatsoever.

These terms are symbolic.

Peter understood something which you do not.

Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.”
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth…”

If you read the context of Isaiah 65:17 - what are the former things?
If you read the context of Rev 21:1 - what are the former things?

Hope that helps
 

Hiddenthings

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@Spiritual Israelite we understand Rev 21 and Isaiah 65 are not speaking of removing Heaven and Earth literally but what these mean symbolically.

Genesis 9:11–17 and the covenant God established preclude a literal interpretation of these passages. It was never God’s plan to destroy the earth, contrary to what you believe.

If we apply your reasoning to Heaven itself then Christ's prayer makes no sense whatsoever.

“Pray then like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

So the phrase Heaven and Earth can be interpreted correctly using this key:

Deuteronomy 32:1 – “Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak, and let the earth hear the words of my mouth.”

What does Heaven here represent?
What does earth here represent?

In what way must the current heavens and earth ‘pass away’ for the promise of Isaiah 65 to be fulfilled?
How do the present heavens and earth ‘pass away’ for Revelation 21:1 to be realized?

Use the key to unlock the symbol!

Enjoy
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Let me explain.
Oh boy, here we go.

When you read this verse can you answer the question "what are the former things"

21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had ceased to exist, and the sea existed no more. Re 21:1.
The former things are referenced in verse 4, not verse 1.

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

The former things are things including death, sorrow, crying and pain as well as the first heaven and first earth, as we know them. The new heavens and new earth replace the first heaven and first earth and when that occurs "there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying" and "there shall be no more pain".

First you need to understand what is meant by new heaven and earth.
I already do. You are the one who doesn't understand. The new heaven(s) replaces the first heaven(s) and the new earth replaces the first earth. The first heaven and first earth were created by God thousands of years ago. We live on the first earth right now.

Then you need to understand in what way did this former (KJV) heaven and earth cease to exist. ἀπῆλθαν [apēlthan]
The first heaven and first earth haven't ceased to exist yet. Do you deny that in the beginning God created the literal heavens and the literal earth? Why are you making something simple so complicated? I feel sorry for you.

If we approach this as literal, then God's throne room (Heaven) and the Earth are entirely removed and the comment about the sea makes no sense whatsoever.
No, not entirely removed. You are making a strawman argument here. They will be renewed, not removed and replaced. I don't believe that the heavens and the earth will be annihilated, but rather that they will be renewed/changed by fire.

These terms are symbolic.
No, they are not.

Peter understood something which you do not.
Peter was not speaking symbolically in 2nd Peter 3. You are mistaken. It's not apocalyptic text like in the book of Revelation. What do you think, that Peter was comparing something symbolic with something literal in 2 Peter 3:6-7? Why would he do that? No, he was directly comparing one past physical global event with a future physical global event.

Isaiah 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.”
“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth…”

If you read the context of Isaiah 65:17 - what are the former things?
If you read the context of Rev 21:1 - what are the former things?
See above. It's very simple. You are unable to discern even simple things like this. It makes me wonder what can you discern?

Hope that helps
Not at all.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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@Spiritual Israelite we understand Rev 21 and Isaiah 65 are not speaking of removing Heaven and Earth literally but what these mean symbolically.

Genesis 9:11–17 and the covenant God established preclude a literal interpretation of these passages. It was never God’s plan to destroy the earth, contrary to what you believe.

If we apply your reasoning to Heaven itself then Christ's prayer makes no sense whatsoever.

“Pray then like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

So the phrase Heaven and Earth can be interpreted correctly using this key:

Deuteronomy 32:1 – “Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak, and let the earth hear the words of my mouth.”

What does Heaven here represent?
What does earth here represent?

In what way must the current heavens and earth ‘pass away’ for the promise of Isaiah 65 to be fulfilled?
How do the present heavens and earth ‘pass away’ for Revelation 21:1 to be realized?

Use the key to unlock the symbol!

Enjoy
If you think I'm going to be convinced by your weak arguments, you need to think again. Just stop. You can't possibly change my mind with your unconvincing arguments. You should have just agreed to disagree as I was trying to do with you before, but you insist on continuing to make these boring, unconvincing arguments instead.
 

Hiddenthings

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If you think I'm going to be convinced by your weak arguments, you need to think again. Just stop. You can't possibly change my mind with your unconvincing arguments. You should have just agreed to disagree as I was trying to do with you before, but you insist on continuing to make these boring, unconvincing arguments instead.
I’m curious why you attempted to answer my first post but responded differently to the second. What specifically concerned you that prevented a direct answer from being given?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I’m curious why you attempted to answer my first post but responded differently to the second. What specifically concerned you that prevented a direct answer from being given?
Because I'm tired of responding to your posts since I disagree with everything you're saying. We should just agree to disagree at this point, but you don't seem to have any interest in that.
 

Hiddenthings

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Oh boy, here we go.


The former things are referenced in verse 4, not verse 1.

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

The former things are things including death, sorrow, crying and pain as well as the first heaven and first earth, as we know them. The new heavens and new earth replace the first heaven and first earth and when that occurs "there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying" and "there shall be no more pain".
But there is no death in Heaven!

Maybe you have not had the opportunity to look at this subject in sufficient detail.
I already do. You are the one who doesn't understand. The new heaven(s) replaces the first heaven(s) and the new earth replaces the first earth. The first heaven and first earth were created by God thousands of years ago. We live on the first earth right now.

There are three of these heaven and earth periods - did you read Isaiah 65?
  • First Period: Israel under Moses — Isaiah 65 contains prophecies pointing to Christ’s future reign during the Millennium.
  • Second Period: The Millennial Kingdom under Christ and the saints — Revelation 21 describes the passing of Christ’s reign and the establishment of the final New Heavens and New Earth, where God is fully present with His people.
  • The Eternal Kingdom: God reigns forever, being all in all, with no end to His kingdom.
The first heaven and first earth haven't ceased to exist yet. Do you deny that in the beginning God created the literal heavens and the literal earth?
I don't not deny because the literal is used of the symbolic.
Peter was not speaking symbolically in 2nd Peter 3. You are mistaken. It's not apocalyptic text like in the book of Revelation. What do you think, that Peter was comparing something symbolic with something literal in 2 Peter 3:6-7? Why would he do that? No, he was directly comparing one past physical global event with a future physical global event.

Maybe you missed his reference to Isaiah 65?

But, according to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness truly resides. 2 Pe 3:13.

What new political heavens and earth are we waiting for?

I can tell from your rash answers you have not thought this though. If you read with resistance it won't be revealed to you.