Revelation 20:1-15 & the 1,000 years (aka Millennium) Bible Study

[Hiddenthings]

It was a question, not a comment. Learn the difference so that you stop looking foolish. Since you acknowledge the existence of literal heavens and a literal earth, why can't Matthew 24:35-39, 2nd Peter 3:10-13 and Revelation 20:11 refer to the literal heavens and literal earth? I'm sure you have no answer to that question.


You are boring me at this point. You're just being repetitive now. Everyone can see that you are not one to be taken seriously, so I don't need to convince anyone of that. So, I'm not going to waste any more time on you.

I simply wanted to see how honest you were and whether you could answer the question. To do this properly, you would need to understand Deuteronomy 32 in its full context, grasp its symbolic style, and be able to apply that method across the entire record. Clearly, you are not able to do this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I simply wanted to see how honest you were and whether you could answer the question. To do this properly, you would need to understand Deuteronomy 32 in its full context, grasp its symbolic style, and be able to apply that method across the entire record. Clearly, you are not able to do this.

I have not studied Deuteronomy 32 in enough depth to give a commentary on it, but I said that I don't deny that the heavens and earth can be referred to symbolically, which is obviously the case in Deuteronomy 32:1. But, a vast majority of verses which refers to the heavens and/or the earth refer to the literal heavens and earth. Including Matthew 24:35, 2 Peter 3:7;10-12 and Revelation 20:11. So, to me, you bringing up Deuteronomy 32 as an exception to the rule is meaningless. That passage has nothing to do with Matthew 24:35-39, 2 Peter 3:10-12, Revelation 20:11 or Revelation 21:1-5.

Now that I've answered your question (I don't care whether it's to your satisfaction or not), I am done with you unless you somehow bring something new to the table, which I have doubts about.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I have not studied Deuteronomy 32 in enough depth to give a commentary on it, but I said that I don't deny that the heavens and earth can be referred to symbolically, which is obviously the case in Deuteronomy 32:1.

Correct - that was not difficult.

But,

There is always a But!

a vast majority of verses which refers to the heavens and/or the earth refer to the literal heavens and earth.

An assumption you are yet to test.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Correct - that was not difficult.

No, it wasn't.

There is always a But!

It was a legitimate but. So what.

An assumption you are yet to test.

You have yet to do anything to prove that passages like Matthew 24:35-39, 2nd Peter 3:10-12, Revelation 20:11 and Revelation 21:1-5 are not referring to the literal heavens and earth. Your arguments have been extremely weak so far. All you've done is prove what everyone already knows, which is that the heavens and the earth are referenced symbolically in scripture in verses like Deuteronomy 32:1, which means nothing in relation to this discussion. The vast majority of verses that refer to the heavens and/or the earth are in relation the literal heavens and earth, so showing an exception proves nothing in terms of any argument being made in relation to what the verses I referenced are about.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You have yet to do anything to prove that passages like Matthew 24:35-39,

So now you have learned how God speaks to His People now apply what you know of this section.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Context:

Verse 34 “This generation” refers to the people who will witness the budding of the fig tree, just as “the woes” came upon that generation (cf. Matthew 23:36).

So, who is Jesus speaking about in this prophecy?

"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"

Until is an important time stamp.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So now you have learned how God speaks to His People now apply what you know of this section.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Context:

Verse 34 “This generation” refers to the people who will witness the budding of the fig tree, just as “the woes” came upon that generation (cf. Matthew 23:36).

So, who is Jesus speaking about in this prophecy?

"Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place"

Until is an important time stamp.

LOL! I can learn nothing from you. That is very clear. It's hilarious that you think you are here to teach me. Not at all. I would teach you if you were teachable, but you clearly are not. Matthew 24:35-39 refers to the unexpected second coming of Christ that will result in the destruction of the heavens and the earth as we know them just as 2nd Peter 3:7 and 2nd Peter 3:10-12 do. Peter compares that future event directly to the flood in Noah's day (2 Peter 3:6-7), showing that the future destruction and passing away of the heavens and the earth is referring to literal global destruction just as the flood in Noah's day was a literal event resulting in global destruction.

This generation refers to the time period and/or the people alive during the time period during which "all these things" occur that Jesus said would indicate that His second coming is near. That time and/or those people will not pass way until Jesus comes again, at which point heaven and earth, as they are now, will also pass away (not in terms of being annihilated, but in terms of being renewed).

 

[Hiddenthings]

LOL! I can learn nothing from you. That is very clear. It's hilarious that you think you are here to teach me. Not at all. I would teach you if you were teachable, but you clearly are not. Matthew 24:35-39 refers to the unexpected second coming of Christ that will result in the destruction of the heavens and the earth as we know them just as 2nd Peter 3:7 and 2nd Peter 3:10-12 do.

Let's try again.

24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away UNTIL all these things take place. 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Mt 24:34–35.

What things will take place?
What was coming upon Israel which would mean heaven and earth would pass away?

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Spiritual Israelite you are right, but it's important to understand why you are right.

When Matthew speaks of the sun being darkened, he is not describing a literal eclipse but using a symbol familiar from Scripture, the eclipse of the Mosaic heavens and earth. As Deuteronomy 31:30–32:1 and Isaiah 1:2,10 show, heaven and earth can represent God’s covenant order and authority. The New Testament carries forward this imagery: Hebrews 1:10–12 and 7:26 reflect the passing of the old order, while 2 Peter 3:10–13 announces the coming of a new heavens and earth, purified and renewed. Understanding this symbolism clarifies the cosmic language of prophecy: it points to God’s decisive action to end corrupt systems and establish His eternal kingdom, not merely astronomical phenomena.

When Jesus speaks of “this generation,” he means that within their lifetime they would witness the passing of heaven and earth, the scattering of Israel (Rulers and Peoples), and the removal of the Law and the Temple from their midst.

The ultimate fulfillment of this prophecy will occur when the Jews recognize Christ as their King and He is crowned King of Israel, marking the beginning of His reign over the entire Earth.

As you can see, a literal heaven and earth have no place in His teaching when He is speaking to the “heaven and earth” of Deuteronomy 32.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let's try again.

24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will not pass away UNTIL all these things take place. 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Mt 24:34–35.

What things will take place?
What was coming upon Israel which would mean heaven and earth would pass away?

Are you a preterist? Christ's second coming has nothing to do with things that happen to Israel. All these things that would take place that would lead to this generation passing away would include the second coming of Christ and the gathering of the elect by the angels as well as false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders to the point of even deceiving the elect, if possible.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Spiritual Israelite this is why the premise of @Adventageous studues are incorrect as he is not skilled in identifying the symbol or interpreting it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Are you a preterist?

Good question - the olivet prophecy is dealing with the immediate judgements on Israel AND the second coming as you are finding.

Christ's second coming has nothing to do with things that happen to Israel.

It has everything to do with Israel!

All these things that would take place that would lead to this generation passing away would include the second coming of Christ and the gathering of the elect by the angels as well as false Christs and false prophets showing great signs and wonders to the point of even deceiving the elect, if possible.

I'll leave this for now.

Here is the breakup into current and later day fulfillments:

Current Events – First-Century/Judaic Context (Vv1–28) = Ad70
Latter-Day Prophecies – Future Application (Vv29–41) = Second Coming

Hope that helps

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite you are right, but it's important to understand why you are right.

When Matthew speaks of the sun being darkened, he is not describing a literal eclipse but using a symbol familiar from Scripture, the eclipse of the Mosaic heavens and earth. As Deuteronomy 31:30–32:1 and Isaiah 1:2,10 show, heaven and earth can represent God’s covenant order and authority. The New Testament carries forward this imagery: Hebrews 1:10–12 and 7:26 reflect the passing of the old order, while 2 Peter 3:10–13 announces the coming of a new heavens and earth, purified and renewed. Understanding this symbolism clarifies the cosmic language of prophecy: it points to God’s decisive action to end corrupt systems and establish His eternal kingdom, not merely astronomical phenomena.

When Jesus speaks of “this generation,” he means that within their lifetime they would witness the passing of heaven and earth, the scattering of Israel (Rulers and Peoples), and the removal of the Law and the Temple from their midst.

The ultimate fulfillment of this prophecy will occur when the Jews recognize Christ as their King and He is crowned King of Israel, marking the beginning of His reign over the entire Earth.

As you can see, a literal heaven and earth have no place in His teaching when He is speaking to the “heaven and earth” of Deuteronomy 32.

That is total premillennial dispensationalist nonsense. Christ has been their King for a long time already. Him being the King is not determined by whether or not people acknowledge Him as King. Is Donald Trump only the President to those in the United States who acknowledge him as President or is he the President of all who live in the United States? The latter, right? Similarly, Jesus is King over all people whether they acknowledge it or not. He is King over all of heaven and earth and has been since His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Ephesians 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite this is why the premise of @Adventageous studues are incorrect as he is not skilled in identifying the symbol or interpreting it.

Your beliefs are incorrect because premillennialism is false. You need to reconsider everything you believe about Revelation 20 and end times doctrine in general because you are way off base on many things.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Spiritual Israelite once you showed an understanding of Deut 32:1 you can now fall in line with the Masters use of these symbols - abandon them and you fail to comprehend the text.

 

[Hiddenthings]

That is total premillennial dispensationalist nonsense. Christ has been their King for a long time already. Him being the King is not determined by whether or not people acknowledge Him as King.

This is true but the fulfillment of 2 Samuel 7 requires acknowledgement by all Israel.

1 Chronicles 11:3 “Then all Israel gathered together to David at Hebron and said, ‘Behold, we are your bone and flesh.’

Perhaps the significance of this event and phrase is not fully appreciated—but it must happen again, this time with the Lord Jesus Christ.

But you are correct, Christ is King now, even though nearly the whole world does not recognize His true kingship.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Good question - the olivet prophecy is dealing with the immediate judgements on Israel AND the second coming as you are finding.

LOL!!! As I am finding? You clearly have no idea of who you're talking to here. I tell people OFTEN that it has to do with both. But, you are not understanding which verses relate to which events. Only Matthew 24:15-22, Mark 13:14-20 and Luke 21:20-24 relate to what happened in 70 AD in relation to Israel and to Jerusalem in particular. The rest relate to the global event of the second coming of Christ which has nothing to do with Israel.

It has everything to do with Israel!

LOL! Absolutely not! Come join us in the New Testament era which is all about Jesus and His church and not about Israel! Get out of the Old Testament era.

I'll leave this for now.

Here is the breakup into current and later day fulfillments:

Current Events – First-Century/Judaic Context (Vv1–28) = Ad70
Latter-Day Prophecies – Future Application (Vv29–41) = Second Coming

Hope that helps

Almost nothing you say helps. You need to learn from me rather than the other way around. You are very delusional and don't understand that almost everything you believe about prophecy is wrong. As is often the case with prophecy, it can jump around in time. The book of Revelation is a good example. It's not all chronological. Revelation 11 and 12 is the most obvious case of that. The book of Daniel is not all chronological. Neither is Isaiah. The Olivet Discoursei is similar. Jesus speaks of things related to the end of the age when He will return in Matthew 24:4-14 and then talks about things related to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple buildings in verses 15-22 and then talks about things related to His future second coming from there on through the end of Matthew 25.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Spiritual Israelite once you showed an understanding of Deut 32:1 you can now fall in line with the Masters use of these symbols - abandon them and you fail to comprehend the text.

LOL. Just stop. Deuteronomy 32:1 has nothing to do with Matthew 24:35-39, 2nd Peter 3:3-13, Revelation 20:11 or Revelation 21:1-5. Period. Just stop the charade already so that you don't continue making a fool of yourself.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Ephesians 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church,

Correct, Jesus has been given all power and authority and exercises it today over the angels, even as we await that hour which no one knows.

Matthew 24:30 “Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is true but

What did you say about there always being a "but"? LOL! You are cracking me up. That's the only reason I'm continuing this discussion.

the fulfillment of 2 Samuel 7 requires acknowledgement by all Israel.

1 Chronicles 11:3 “Then all Israel gathered together to David at Hebron and said, ‘Behold, we are your bone and flesh.’

Perhaps the significance of this event and phrase is not fully appreciated—but it must happen again, this time with the Lord Jesus Christ.

But you are correct, Christ is King now, even though nearly the whole world does not recognize His true kingship.

Since He is King now then it doesn't require anyone's acknowledgement for Him to be King, right? Yet, you were saying Israel needs to acknwoledge Him as their King in order for Him to be their King. Nonsense! You just don't get it. I see that you have still not taken my advice and asked God for wisdom about all these things (James 1:5-7).

 

[Hiddenthings]

Come join us in the New Testament era which is all about Jesus and His church and not about Israel! Get out of the Old Testament era.

The first task of the saints at Christ’s return is the salvation of Judah. Perhaps a review of the Old Testament would clarify the role of the saints in the kingdom age. Your inability to grasp the meaning of Deuteronomy 32:1 highlights this need.