Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

[Grailhunter]

Is your name Grailhuner?
What if I called you The Grail....
would you still be Grailhunter?

You would stil lbe you no matter what name anyone gave to you.

Jesus is found throughout the Old Testament.

Genesis 18:1-2 LSB
18 1Then Yahweh appeared to him by the [a]oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing nearby; he saw, and he ran from the tent door to meet them, and he bowed himself to the earth,

The above states that Yahweh appeared to Abraham.
Has anyone ever seen the face of God?
No.

Exodus 33:20 God said to Moses
20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!”


John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time;


1 Timothy 6:16
16 who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.


So who did Abraham see?
Who did Moses see?

Salutations GodsGrace....
I am not a God so my name is not important.
Yes God the Father's name is important. Particularly when God's name is taken out of the scriptures....what sin could be worse.

It is not easy to manipulate a proper name....Yahweh is one God....He says it over and over again. And now that they use the title God they try to stuff it with 3 Gods.

Jesus cannot be in the Old Testament......because there are no J's in the scriptures and no one knows were that word came from......Yeshua could have been in the Old Testament but He is not.....nor do Old Testament scriptures say the Son of God was responsible for miraculous events.

 

[Grailhunter]

GH
God Father was never demoted.
The Son and the Holy Spirit both are begotten of the Father....
they "come forth" from the Father.
There is, in a manner of speaking, a heirarchy in the Godhead...
Father is at the top.

There is no demotion.
I'm sure you know about the problem of the Filoque.
The problem created by the CC is that it makes it seem that Father and Son were sharing something that Holy Spirt did not participate in. I do believe the Orthodox Church got this doctrine right.

No demotion with you....Thank God you got part of it right.
But giving the Creator God status away from Yahweh and giving to Yeshua is a big deal.
Some believe all authority, creator and savior of the world is all Yeshua.

 

[Button]

Hey,the short fact here is leading to this question.

Do we really think God's moral laws don't matter?
Would God revoke them because he agrees?

Christians don't need moral structure?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, but not as early as some would suppose. The change took several centuries, and even then it took coercion by the church and state, starting from the 5th century. But there were many who stayed firm in obedience to scripture.

It did not take several centuries for worshipping God on Sunday,,,which is The Lord's Day.

The practice is already established in the NT and very early writings, such as The Didache which mentions worship on The Lord's Day.

At the time of Peter there were meetings of those of the Christian faith in homes...including his. This has been discovered recently in Capernum where Peter's hosue was found.

Believers in Christ were eventually abolished from the synogoque and definetly by 70AD after the destruction of the Temple (and Jerusalem).


Acts 20:7
7 And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began speaking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his [a]message until midnight.


1 Corinthians 16:2
2 On the first day of every week each one of you is to [a]set something aside, saving whatever he has prospered, so that no collections be made when I come.



The Didache (teachings of the Apostles approx 90AD)

On the Lord’s day, come together, break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins, so that your sacrifice may be pure.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The whole purpose of the gospel was to create in God's people hearts to obey.

Don't tell this to the OSAS people

They claim being obedient is trying to earn your salvation

They don't want to do that so they live in sin being disobedient instead.

The OSAS people have to say disobedience is "blessed of the Lord" because they believing being obedient is try to earn salbvation by doing good works.

The old devil certainly has the OSAS people over a barrel and the OSAS people enjoy that sort of thing ya know.

After the destruction of the Temple the Jewish-Christians had pretty much died out by the end of the first century.

No, they did not die out. They were dispersed all over the world.

No Jewish-Christians writings after the first century.

After the Apostle Paul left earth, the false teachers came in

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

If Jesus says we are to obey Him and His commandments...
it means that there are commandments that are to be obeyed...
and behavior which is to be followed.

This is why the OSAS people reject the teachings of Jesus and follow Paul instead

The think Paul's writing give them a pass where they can engage in sinful behavior and still be saved, they twist his writings.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The OSAS people are the unlearned and unstable being spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16 along with others that teach false doctrine.

The Son and the Holy Spirit both are begotten of the Father....

No, that's not true.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not created beings

God is ONE being - Father, Word, Spirit

These three are ONE
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Concerning the trinity... the Father, the Son, and the Spirit... are One!

Pretty hard to explain away something scripture clearly tells us which is... One is Three, and the Three are One.

In fact.... you and I are three that is one (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body)

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

After all... the Lord did create man in His Own Image.

Genesis 1:26
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

That's the Father, the Word, and the Spirit saying "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

 

[GodsGrace]

Salutations GodsGrace....
I am not a God so my name is not important.
Yes God the Father's name is important. Particularly when God's name is taken out of the scriptures....what sin could be worse.

It is not easy to manipulate a proper name....Yahweh is one God....He says it over and over again. And now that they use the title God they try to stuff it with 3 Gods.

Jesus cannot be in the Old Testament......because there are no J's in the scriptures and no one knows were that word came from......Yeshua could have been in the Old Testament but He is not.....nor do Old Testament scriptures say the Son of God was responsible for miraculous events.

I put YAHWEH back into scripture, if you noticed.

WHO is that "Person" that Isaiah 53 is speaking about?

Is there any doubt that it's Jesus?
Gesu'
Iesous
Iesus
Isa


And, Yeshua means savior, rescuer.....
And WHO did Yahweh say would save His people in the OT?

 

[GodsGrace]

No demotion with you....Thank God you got part of it right.
But giving the Creator God status away from Yahweh and giving to Yeshua is a big deal.
Some believe all authority, creator and savior of the world is all Yeshua.

Well, they believe wrongly.
Yeshua is all authority, is the creator, and is the savior of the world.

And so is Yahweh.

Because they have the same nature/substance and will....
They are one in substance....
two in Persons.

 

[GodsGrace]

Don't tell this to the OSAS people

They claim being obedient is trying to earn your salvation

They don't want to do that so they live in sin being disobedient instead.

The OSAS people have to say disobedience is "blessed of the Lord" because they believing being obedient is try to earn salbvation by doing good works.

The old devil certainly has the OSAS people over a barrel and the OSAS people enjoy that sort of thing ya know.




No, they did not die out. They were dispersed all over the world.




After the Apostle Paul left earth, the false teachers came in

Acts 20:27-30
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.





This is why the OSAS people reject the teachings of Jesus and follow Paul instead

The think Paul's writing give them a pass where they can engage in sinful behavior and still be saved, they twist his writings.

2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The OSAS people are the unlearned and unstable being spoken of in 2 Peter 3:16 along with others that teach false doctrine.




No, that's not true.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not created beings

God is ONE being - Father, Word, Spirit

These three are ONE
1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are One.

Concerning the trinity... the Father, the Son, and the Spirit... are One!

Pretty hard to explain away something scripture clearly tells us which is... One is Three, and the Three are One.

In fact.... you and I are three that is one (we are a spirit, we possess a soul, and we live in a body)

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

After all... the Lord did create man in His Own Image.

Genesis 1:26
God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

That's the Father, the Word, and the Spirit saying "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Of course the three are ONE.
The problem here, as usual (and it's really tiring) is that English speaking persons refuse to learn what BEGOTTEN means.

The choice I was referring is simply this:
Two choices:

CATHOLIC
The Holy Spirit PROCEEDS from the Father and the Son

ORTHODOX
The Holy Spirit PROCEEDS from the Father

 

[Grailhunter]

I put YAHWEH back into scripture, if you noticed.

WHO is that "Person" that Isaiah 53 is speaking about?

Is there any doubt that it's Jesus?
Gesu'
Iesous
Iesus
Isa


And, Yeshua means savior, rescuer.....
And WHO did Yahweh say would save His people in the OT?

Finally something interesting.
But a lot of time Yahweh calls Himself redeemer and Savior.
But here in Isaiah 53 is about the only place I see a reference to Yeshua in the Old Testament. Not as present but as a vision of the future.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, they did not die out. They were dispersed all over the world.

Yea they were human and they died out and did not vote anyone in to keep the apostalistic lineage going.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The problem here, as usual (and it's really tiring) is that English speaking persons refuse to learn what BEGOTTEN means.

The Father, Word, and Spirit have all existed together for eternity with no start and no end.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were no begotten at any time as they are no crated Beings

The Father, Word, and Spirit as ONE are the Creator Who crated all things

Proceeds from and brought forth from refers to the Father revealing the Word and the Spirit to man

It is not claiming the Word and the Spirit are crated Beings that the Father created.

Yea they were human and they died out and did not vote anyone in to keep the apostalistic lineage going.

Yea and they had kids and their kids had kids and the Jewish people are still around today

God is leading many of them to go back to Israel as He said He would in His Word.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Father, Word, and Spirit have all existed together for eternity with no start and no end.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were no begotten at any time as they are no crated Beings

The Father, Word, and Spirit as ONE are the Creator Who crated all things

Proceeds from and brought forth from refers to the Father revealing the Word and the Spirit to man

It is not claiming the Word and the Spirit are crated Beings that the Father created.




Yea and they had kids and their kids had kids and the Jewish people are still around today

God is leading many of them to go back to Israel as He said He would in His Word.

Good to have a family.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Good to have a family.

It's even better to be in God's family

 

[LoveYeshua]

Yea they were human and they died out and did not vote anyone in to keep the apostalistic lineage going.

Jewish followers of Jesus did not die out in the first century. Jesus promised His church would continue, not vanish, and the apostles appointed leaders after them. History shows this clearly. After Jerusalem’s fall in the year 70, the Jewish Christians moved to Pella and lived there for many years. In the second century they were known as the Nazarenes, the true continuation of the Jerusalem church. They believed Jesus is the Messiah, kept the commandments of God, and held to the teaching they had received from the apostles. Writers like Hegesippus record a long line of Jewish Christian leaders after James, proving they continued into the second and third centuries.

As time passed, their numbers became smaller, and many of them joined the growing Gentile Christian communities. By the fifth or sixth century, records of them become rare. This does not mean they disappeared suddenly. It simply means their identity slowly blended into the wider Christian world, and written documentation about them became weaker with each century. Their name faded, but their faith, their teachings, and their way of following Jesus continued inside the larger church.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jewish followers of Jesus did not die out in the first century.

I don't debate history too much, you can look it up yourself.
Find Jewish-Christian writings after the 1st century.
Name a Jewish-Christian after the 1st century.
Find twelve Apostles after the 1st century.
Find how the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians got along.

 

[GodsGrace]

Finally something interesting.
But a lot of time Yahweh calls Himself redeemer and Savior.
But here in Isaiah 53 is about the only place I see a reference to Yeshua in the Old Testament. Not as present but as a vision of the future.

Right.
Yahweh calls Himself savior and redeemer.

And who is the Savior and redeemer in the New Testament?

Acts 4:10-12
10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that [h]by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—[i]by [j]this name this man stands here before you in good health.
11 [k]He is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone.
12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”


Luke 2:11
11 For today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is [a]Christ the Lord.


Yahweh is God the Savior.
Jesus is God the Savior.

If Yahweh is the NAME of God...
then Jesus is also Yahweh.

Yahweh = God



You said you can see Jesus in Isaiah 53.
Jesus, as a TYPE, is seen in many places in the Old Testament.

1 Corinthians 15:45
45 So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.


Moses looked forward to Jesus:

Hebrews 11:26
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter,
25 choosing rather to be mistreated with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
26 regarding the reproach of [q]Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.


Jesus is the Passover Lamb - Exodus 12
Jesus is the Manna that lasts forever - John 6:35
Jesus must be lifted up as the serpent was - Numbers 21, John 3:14
Jesus is seen in Psalm 22
He is the last of the temple sacrifices.

Jesus is throughout the Old Testament.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Father, Word, and Spirit have all existed together for eternity with no start and no end.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were no begotten at any time as they are no crated Beings

BEGOTTEN
does NOT
mean CREATED.

That word should be ELIMINATED from theological language but I sometimes slip and use it myself.

Begotten is used in John 3:16...and yet we know that Jesus was NOT created.

Here is the best explanation of the word that I've come across....
source: Gemini


In theology, begotten means to bring forth something of the same nature as oneself, not to create or make it, signifying Jesus' unique, eternal, divine origin from God the Father, distinct from created beings, as affirmed in the Nicene Creed's "begotten, not made" phrase, emphasizing He shares God's substance, not just a lesser created status.

Key Meanings & Distinctions

• Not Created (Made): Unlike a chair made by a craftsman, Jesus is "begotten," meaning He shares the divine substance and nature of the Father, rather than being a created entity.
• Of the Same Kind: A father begets a son (human); a bird begets birds; God the Father begets God the Son. What God begets is God, affirming Christ's divinity.
• Eternal Generation: Jesus' begetting by the Father is outside of time, an eternal relationship where the Son always exists, unlike creatures who have a temporal beginning.
• Unique Relationship: While believers are "children of God," Jesus is uniquely the "only begotten" (Greek: monogenes), meaning unique in kind, not just the first or only one.
• Nicene Creed: The phrase "begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father" refutes Arianism (which claimed Jesus was a created being) and asserts Jesus' co-eternality and co-equality with the Father.

Examples in Scripture & Creed

• Nicene Creed: "begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father".
• John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son...".
• Acts 13:33: "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee" (referring to resurrection).

The Father, Word, and Spirit as ONE are the Creator Who crated all things

Proceeds from and brought forth from refers to the Father revealing the Word and the Spirit to man

It is not claiming the Word and the Spirit are crated Beings that the Father created.

Agreed.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Jewish followers of Jesus did not die out in the first century. Jesus promised His church would continue, not vanish, and the apostles appointed leaders after them. History shows this clearly. After Jerusalem’s fall in the year 70, the Jewish Christians moved to Pella and lived there for many years. In the second century they were known as the Nazarenes, the true continuation of the Jerusalem church. They believed Jesus is the Messiah, kept the commandments of God, and held to the teaching they had received from the apostles. Writers like Hegesippus record a long line of Jewish Christian leaders after James, proving they continued into the second and third centuries.

As time passed, their numbers became smaller, and many of them joined the growing Gentile Christian communities. By the fifth or sixth century, records of them become rare. This does not mean they disappeared suddenly. It simply means their identity slowly blended into the wider Christian world, and written documentation about them became weaker with each century. Their name faded, but their faith, their teachings, and their way of following Jesus continued inside the larger church.

The New Testament says they were translated, and that there was no blood bath back then. It also says the Romans did not execute Paul.

 

[GodsGrace]

The New Testament says they were translated, and that there was no blood bath back then. It also says the Romans did not execute Paul.

Where does the NT state that Paul was not executed by the Romans??

 

[MonoBiblical]

BEGOTTEN
does NOT
mean CREATED.

It does mean anything begotten not made or created. Only Adam and Eve were made.

Begotten not made is any ignorant creed.