Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The Scriptures I do believe. Your errant interpretation of those Scriptures is what I do not accept for they are false, grammatically, linguistically, and spiritually.
"True" Israel?
- Thread starter Randy Kluth
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More on Mystery Israel:
In Romans 11 Paul write of God’s eternal purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11. He states that it has always been God’s eternal purpose to save his elect Israel by calling each of his elect from among Jew and Gentile by Christ our Deliverer. Rom 11: 25-27 is a sort of parenthesis in the midst of his gentle reroof concerning God’s eternal purpose for his elect Israel. He declared that the mystery of God, God’s eternal purpose is to save all his elect from among the Jew and the Gentiles, as foretold by Jesus words Jn 10:16. That Israel shall be saved Isa 45:17 is a Gospel Promise, that included Gentiles Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
And when God has fulfilled his purpose, by calling all his elect of jews and gentiles from the Gentile nations. “And so” and after this manner—"all God’s elect Israel shall be saved.” Rom 11:26
Elect Gentiles are fellowheirs with the Old Test heirs as Per Heb 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Gentiles are Heirs with the Fathers in the Eternal Kingdom of Inheritance Matt 8:8-12
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 8
In Romans 11 Paul write of God’s eternal purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11. He states that it has always been God’s eternal purpose to save his elect Israel by calling each of his elect from among Jew and Gentile by Christ our Deliverer. Rom 11: 25-27 is a sort of parenthesis in the midst of his gentle reroof concerning God’s eternal purpose for his elect Israel. He declared that the mystery of God, God’s eternal purpose is to save all his elect from among the Jew and the Gentiles, as foretold by Jesus words Jn 10:16. That Israel shall be saved Isa 45:17 is a Gospel Promise, that included Gentiles Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
And when God has fulfilled his purpose, by calling all his elect of jews and gentiles from the Gentile nations. “And so” and after this manner—"all God’s elect Israel shall be saved.” Rom 11:26
Elect Gentiles are fellowheirs with the Old Test heirs as Per Heb 11:8-10
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Gentiles are Heirs with the Fathers in the Eternal Kingdom of Inheritance Matt 8:8-12
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 8
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well as your mind reading skills score an F- I will take your accusations as a badge of honor.
Spiritual or True Israel are those saved descendants of Abrahm, Isaac and Jacob.
Replacement theology you support is a horrendous reinterpretation of the written Word of God as well as a heresy. You have completely failed to show how the church is "spiritual Israel".
Just because we are descendants of Abraham, does not make a saved Gentile any more a Jew than walking in to a McDonalds makes on a gig mac.
A Person can be a national jew by blood, a physical descendant of Abraham, and yet spiritually have hagar as their mother, and a believing gentile that belongs to the Body of Christ spiritually has Sarah as their Mother, for Sarah is the Mother of the Church, the Body of Christ Gal 4:22-26
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman[Sarah].
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman[Sarah] was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother[Sarah] of us all.
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman[Sarah].
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman[Sarah] was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother[Sarah] of us all.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Glad I do not answer to you!. I will take my chanced with my Savior. He doesn't speak in riddles like you do.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back. Tens of millions of true believers do not accept your allegorical reinterpretation of the Woprd of God. we take god at His word, not your opinion of it.
Scripture reveals Two Israel's Rom 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel #1, which are of Israel #2:
Scripture reveals Two Jerusalems Gal 4:25-26
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem #1 which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem #2 which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 8
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel #1, which are of Israel #2:
Scripture reveals Two Jerusalems Gal 4:25-26
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem #1 which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem #2 which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 8
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes and if you could read properly you would know that the two Israels are natural Israel, and the Israel of god which is those Israelis who are saved! Galatians bringsthat out very well and plainly.
According to you, when Paul speaks of Israel, he is referring to teh church so you have this verse:
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
You have blindness happening to believers!
I will be at the Bema Judgment. How about you?
The Israel of God is not natural israel. Thats like saying Ishmael is Issac Gal 4 Sorry but True Israel is born of God and not Jn 1:13
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Natural israel was only born of blood. True Israel is born of the Spirit, its a Spiritual People
The Church is the New Israel composed of both saved jews and gentiles. That both saved jews and gentiles are the new manifestion of Israel is understood by these inspiried words Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Now Christ has made them One Commonwealth Israel Eph 2:14
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one[commonwealth/citizenship], and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Saved Gentiles now have citizenship with Israel
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens[in the commonwealth of Israel] with the saints, and of the household of God;
This is also pictured in Rom 11 with the Olive Tree, with saved Gentiles being Grafted into the citizenship with saved Israel the household of God 9
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Now Christ has made them One Commonwealth Israel Eph 2:14
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one[commonwealth/citizenship], and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Saved Gentiles now have citizenship with Israel
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens[in the commonwealth of Israel] with the saints, and of the household of God;
This is also pictured in Rom 11 with the Olive Tree, with saved Gentiles being Grafted into the citizenship with saved Israel the household of God 9
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Nice of you to rip John 1:13 totally out of its context.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
This is talking about Israelis (the spiritual Israel or Israel of God) who received Him as Messiah! I know that is what you allegorizers love to do is take verses out of context- but it don't fly.
The Elect Gentiles were grafted into the New Covenant Promises to Elect Israel. When God announced the New Covenant to Israel as here Jer 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Now Rom 11 makes it clear that Gentiles now partake of that fatness and blessing to Elect Israel Rom 11:16-17
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
All those promises to Israel in Jer 31:31-34 are Gospel promises made to them, and yet the Mystery being made known in a more clearer light shows that Gentiles partake of the same promises Eph3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Christ is the Mediator of that Covenant and its promises Heb 8:6-13
Sp this Unconditional Covenant to Israel Elect includes Elect Gentiles from the Nations. 9
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Now Rom 11 makes it clear that Gentiles now partake of that fatness and blessing to Elect Israel Rom 11:16-17
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
All those promises to Israel in Jer 31:31-34 are Gospel promises made to them, and yet the Mystery being made known in a more clearer light shows that Gentiles partake of the same promises Eph3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Christ is the Mediator of that Covenant and its promises Heb 8:6-13
Sp this Unconditional Covenant to Israel Elect includes Elect Gentiles from the Nations. 9
No I didnt, I just highlighted a truth in the context. True Israel is born of the Spirit, not of blood. True Israel is born of incorruptible seed, not the corruptible seed of Adam or blood 1 Pet 1 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
See Abrahams natura bloodl biological seed is born of corruptible seed, His Spiritual Seed is born of incorruptible seed, its spiritual. The word of God is Spiritual, its not an ethnicity
No its not, thats basing the Spiritual on the corrupt actions of the natural man. You have a double error #1 basing salvation on the flesh of man in corrupt nature, and #2 basing it upon ethnicity, another confidence in the flesh delusion
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And that truth in the context was about Jews, not Gentiles! C'mon man, you can't have failed basic reading and grammar that badly.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well please do not go into mind reading as a business. You suck at it! I do not base any salvation on the flesh of man in ccorrupt nature. And 2 I do not base base it on ehtnicity.
But let us look at the passage in its full context and see how inane your pulling it out of context is.
John 1:11-13
King James Version
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Verse 11-He came to teh jews but they did not receive Him. Implied as a nation to receive the kingdom He was announcing.
Verse 12- but to those He did receive HIm, they were given the authority(exousia) to become sons of God!
Verse 13- that authority did not come from being born Jewish, nor by a person willing it, but by God.
Sorry you are just wrong.
