"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

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MonoBiblical

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The Catholic faith teaches what the Protestant faith does...
except some Protestants prefer to believe MEN instead of GOD.

Let me ask you this Mono, since you believe in SOLA FIDE, which is taught nowhere in the NT:

Did Jesus command us to love our neighbor?
Sola Fide in God is the way to go, but fide means only trust. It is a scriptural issue.
 

Justified

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“Before Abraham was, I am.” That is Jesus’s claim to deity. It is likely a direct claim of identity, based on Ex. 3:14, but apart from that, it is a claim to timelessness, which belongs to deity alone.


Both Paul and James agree that works are evidence of justification, but what does that have to do with John 8:58?
 

Fred J

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Something that came to me that blew my socks off:

"Before Abraham Was, I AM" (Jn.8:58)

I had never understood this but suddenly tonight I believe the meaning came to me. Why did Jesus say I AM? Why didn't he just say I was? I think the answer is that God inhabits eternity. He cannot say I was, or I will be as God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. He never changes. God is outside time!
How about vs. 56?

The Lord's day when He was among the 3 men who visited Abraham and promised the same time next year Isaac shall be born.

And the Lord's day punishment to destroy the city of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Lot's family saved from it.

The Lord is Mighty God Himself and likewise the 'image' of the invisible AL-MIGHTY GOD the FATHER.
 

GodsGrace

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Sola Fide in God is the way to go, but fide means only trust. It is a scriptural issue.
So nice of you to inform me.

FIDE means FAITH.

You could look it up in one of your lexicons that those who do not agree with scripture like to use.
 

BreadOfLife

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It is not unconditional, it is the equivalent of the equivalent of the English word consideration.
It absolutely IS unconditional.
Agape is the love that God has for us (Rom. 8:35-39) – and that we are to have for each other (1 Cor. 13:4-6).

Yes, he trusted him and had blind faith.
No - Satan didn’t have faith at all. He believed but didn’t trust.

So much for your narrow definition of “faith” . . .

Are you sure they aren't overeducated ignoramuses?
Nope – they are wise men and good leaders – your ignorant hatred notwithstanding . . .
James 2:22d ἐκ τῶν ἔργων ἡ πίστις ἐτελειώθη out of some works, a trust it an accomplishes. Sorry but works don't fill or complete, but they accomplish it trust as needed.
Ummmm, that’s NOT what the Bible says:

James 2:21-22

Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and HIS FAITH WAS MADE COMPLETE by what he DID.
Secondly, trust without the Holy Spirit cannot move mountains.
Paul is clearly using hyperbole here.

This is yet another example of your using “pistis” for your own narrow purposes.
It has many meanings, as I have amply shown you . .
.
 

BreadOfLife

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@BreadOfLife is not being considerate. I still forgive him.
From AI definition:
Agape (ἀγάπη) is a Greek term for a selfless, unconditional, sacrificial love, often described as the highest form of love, particularly in Christian theology, representing God's love for humanity and the love humans should show each other

Agape is the love that we Christians are to have for each other.
Paul
describes this unconditional love (agape):
1 Cor. 13:4-6

Love (agape) is patient, Love (agape) is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love (agape) does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

Rom. 8:35-39
Who shall separate us from the Love (agape of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?


John describes this same unconditional love (agape):
John 15:13

Greater love (agape) has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

These are perfect Biblical descriptions of unconditional love . . .
 

GodsGrace

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Believe tends to obedience, and it is not obedience by itself.
Here's what I said.

In Greek, simple Greek, Koine Greek, with which the New Testament was written uses the word
BELIEVE
In that greek language
BELIEVE = OBEY
DISBELIEVE = DISOBEY

You don't have to take my word for anything.
We have the internet nowadays and can look up anything in 5 minutes.

In the old days this used to take a lot longer.
 

MonoBiblical

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It absolutely IS unconditional.
Let me see.
[Jhn 3:19 KJV] 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
[2Ti 4:10 KJV] 10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
Evil and unconditional; perhaps, but RCers still prove they know nany (i.e. not any) Greek with this one.
[1Jo 2:15 NKJV] 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Agape is the love that God has for us (Rom. 8:35-39) – and that we are to have for each other (1 Cor. 13:4-6).

No - Satan didn’t have faith at all. He believed but didn’t trust.
Why did his followers have agape? Why are there different agapai like considerations?

So much for your narrow definition of “faith” . . .

Nope –
they are wise men and good leaders – your ignorant hatred notwithstanding . . .

Ummmm, that’s NOT what the Bible says:

James 2:21-22

Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and HIS FAITH WAS MADE COMPLETE by what he DID.

Paul is clearly using hyperbole here.

This is yet another example of your using “pistis” for your own narrow purposes.
It has many meanings, as I have amply shown you . .
.
Again, his trust was accomplished by what he did. It has few meanings, but there are plenty who abuse the word like you.
 

MonoBiblical

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Here's what I said.

In Greek, simple Greek, Koine Greek, with which the New Testament was written uses the word
BELIEVE
In that greek language
BELIEVE = OBEY
DISBELIEVE = DISOBEY
You are wrong, there is only a tendency with those words.
 

GodsGrace

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You are wrong, there is only a tendency with those words.
This is why we have a problem in our Christian religion.
We don't all go to the same school.

Look it up Mono.
I can't take the time to do this for you.

Here...this is from Gemini......good explanation and Christian theology:


In New Testament Greek, the word apeitheō (ἀπειθέω) bridges disbelief and disobedience, meaning to disbelieve wilfully, refuse to be persuaded, or disobey. It implies that true unbelief is active resistance or refusal to comply, merging intellectual rejection with a lack of submission.

Key Details on Apeitheō (Strong's G544)

  • Definition: To disobey, be disobedient, refuse to believe, or not comply.
  • Literal Meaning: "Refuse to be persuaded" (from a- not, and peithō to persuade).
  • Connotation: It suggests a perverse, willful refusal to believe, which manifests as disobedience.
  • Usage: Often used in the context of resisting the Gospel or God's will.

Why "Disbelieve" Means "Disobey"
In this biblical context, faith is not just mental assent but active trust and compliance. Therefore, not believing is viewed as an act of rebellion or disobedience. The term covers both the refusal of belief and the resulting refusal to conform.
For example, in John 3:36, some translations say "does not believe," while others say "disobeys," both stemming from apeithōn.