One Baptism. - What is it?

[St. SteVen]

I just googled how long the church has fought over this 'one baptism' doctrine.. Answer was 2,000 years. And you want me to settle that argument in what? One paragraph!!!

Ultimately, it may be an unanswerable question, but certainly worth a discussion.

Seems to me that it is mostly poetic anyway. Theology takes a back seat.
It is beautiful as stated.

Ephesians 4:5-6 NIV
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

 

[St. SteVen]

Ultimately, it may be an unanswerable question, but certainly worth a discussion.

Seems to me that it is mostly poetic anyway. Theology takes a back seat.
It is beautiful as stated.

Ephesians 4:5-6 NIV
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

In my view, the one baptism is the one that adds us to the church. Water baptism.

Acts 2:47 NIV
praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people.
And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

 

[Hillsage]

I read it. I even liked it. I re-read it this morning when Steven bumped the thread, and this stuck out to me.

I'm so overwhelmed here on the forum with 2 other threads that I have to ask; Did you like it when it was first posted in October? Or was it after a few days ago, when you asked me if I had posted anything earlier so I told you again about post #20? After missing so many posts yesterday, I'm not sure where to start. But I'll answer this post.

Why would we not think that 'baptisms' refers to many people being baptized? Why would we prefer a reading that implies multiple kinds of baptism? Those questions aren't answered in your post #20 that I can see.

I would not think that way because so many different kinds of baptisms are discussed in the NT regarding this 'one baptism' verse. I did limit post #20 to a very abbreviated IN MY OPINION presentation of my final defense of the only baptism that I have never seen addressed with anybody elses OPINION.

At any rate, Hebrews 6 isn't about baptism. It's about backsliding. Baptisms get mentioned as part of a list of basic teachings, which Paul doesn't elaborate on.

I believe Paul did elaborate, but just not here. He didn't elaborate on any of the other doctrines either. I totally have a different POV. You are taking the foundational premise of Heb 6:1 and jumping down to verse 6 and another hot button argument of 'the church'. That being OSAS or 'the other camps opinion of every Sunday going back to the altar because you've sinned again and lost your salvation of going to heaven. We do agree 'I think' because you said "backsliding".

If that is true, then I believe it is because of the foundational doctrines mentioned from 6:1,2 which are FUNDAMENTAL to attain "PERFECTION/MATURITY". And one of those doctrines is BAPTISMS plural. Now we have to decide which baptisms plural in the NT don't apply to this foundation.

I'm just going to stop here, with much more to say. But are we OK so far?

 

[Wick Stick]

I'm so overwhelmed here on the forum with 2 other threads that I have to ask; Did you like it when it was first posted in October? Or was it after a few days ago, when you asked me if I had posted anything earlier so I told you again about post #20? After missing so many posts yesterday, I'm not sure where to start. But I'll answer this post.

Back when we first interacted

 

[Hillsage]

Back when we first interacted

So if you agree with Heb 6:2 that "baptisms" is plural, can we agree that ONE of 'those' "baptisms" (Plural) includes the "ONE BAPTISM of Eph 4, (whatever that baptism is???)

I believe that's the logical and scriptural basis for me to believe and come from. I can't even add every other 'scripturally named baptism' to this Heb ELEMENTARY DOCTRINE'S foundation (eg baptism for dead relatives for salvation). But some other baptisms are still required for growth to the point of "perfection"/"maturity. baptism of repentance, baptism of water, 2 baptisms FROM the Holy Spirit of God. One for your spirit (not to be resurrected or recreated, but to be re-born again and saved. Two for releasing the spiritual power within your now holy born again spirit to speak, in its language which bypasses your brain's frontal cortex pathway (English only for me). That language comes from the 2 sided parietal lobes. URL video below if interested.

But there's another PAGAN NORSE baptism or washing for the dead practice brought up in scripture. My opinion is it was for the purpose of saying pagans in the church who were wasting their time practicing, since Jesus fulfilled this ancient NORSE pagan ritual's purpose, of determing Valhala/HEAVEN or HELL in the hereafter. But Jesus' death dealt with the 'sin and salvation' issue from Adam until the 'forever hereafter'. I am going to assume you have no part in believing 'Baptism for the dead' is on the table for you today.

Are we still doing OK. @Wick Stick

Tongues video

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[Behold]

There are 7 Baptisms found in Scripture.
Everything from spiritual to wrath of God being poured out.

There is one Baptism that strictly references the spiritual brith, and that is the "one" Baptism that matters to a sinner.
And this baptism is not WATER.

This "baptism" is regarding being spiritually birthed and spiritually reunited with God.
This is the saving baptism. or the "one" baptism.

Deceivers who teach "universalism"...... such as @St. SteVen ........teach that this spiritual baptism is not necessary before you die, and you can still go to heaven.

What is that baptism?

A.) BORN.....again spiritually.

 

[Hillsage]

What's the difference between "God could let anyone to come unto the knowledge of the truth" and "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but (of the will) of God."?

The difference between "GOD could" and "GOD does" is this; If God 'DOES NOT', then it is not happening that 'you COULD', come to the saving knowledge of salvation. It requires REPENTANCE (1st baptism) first, to receive FAITH to believe unto the first salvation. That salvation being, the salvation of your spirit only. After iit is born again (Once Saved Always Saved) you then begin to work out the 2nd salvation, of your soul. And we are all still waiting for the 3rd salvation of our bodies.

ACT 11:17* If then God gave the same gift (FAITH) to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard this they were silenced. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance unto life."

2TI 2:25* correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

But, for the purpose of this thread, I believe that the repentance baptism of John never disappeared with the NT process for coming to salvation. Only the OT outward ,sign or symbol of water, has disappeared. Do we not say; "water Baptism is an outward sign of an inward change"? If I have the inward change but never got watered, do you believe you go to "mild hell" like the Roman Catholics under Augustine practiced and taught?

That very unfavorable 5 century belief morphed into LIMBO. But later, Pope Pius VI rejected the idea that unbaptized babies go to any hell in 1794. Since 2007 the official Vatican position emphasizes God’s universal love and the hope that these children are saved. Yeah I like that last OPINION.

 

[Wick Stick]

So if you agree with Heb 6:2 that "baptisms" is plural, can we agree that ONE of 'those' "baptisms" (Plural) includes the "ONE BAPTISM of Eph 4, (whatever that baptism is???)

I believe that's the logical and scriptural basis for me to believe and come from.

That's where we disagree. Baptisms IS plural in this chapter, but I don't think it means multiple TYPES of baptisms. I think it means multiple OCCURENCES of Christian baptism.

If I baptize 5 different people, then we had 5 baptismS, but that doesn't mean they were all different kinds of baptism. I can have multiple baptisms, but just one kind of baptism and that works logically.

 

[Hillsage]

That's where we disagree. Baptisms IS plural in this chapter, but I don't think it means multiple TYPES of baptisms. I think it means multiple OCCURENCES of Christian baptism.

If I baptize 5 different people, then we had 5 baptismS, but that doesn't mean they were all different kinds of baptism. I can have multiple baptisms, but just one kind of baptism and that works logically.

But none of those '5 literal baptism OCCURENCES' are literal foundations for the "doctrines" of the faith. That is the whole context of verse 1,2. It's doctrinal teaching, not doctrinal doing.

Let's apply your reasoning above, for that 1 verse, to the whole context below. If your reasoning doesn't make sense to the rest of those verses 'in context' then it can't make sense for your verse either. IMHO.

Heb 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of baptism."
and of laying on of hands, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of HANDS ????
and of resurrection of the dead, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of "DEAD"?????
and of eternal judgment. "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of "eternal judgment".

If you still believe the way you did, we really just need to agree to disagree from now on. But I will ask you to remind me in the future if ever I try to talk about this baptisms doctrine again. I can't remember you as well as I hope you will remember me.

 

[Wick Stick]

But none of those '5 literal baptism OCCURENCES' are literal foundations for the "doctrines" of the faith. That is the whole context of verse 1,2. It's doctrinal teaching, not doctrinal doing.

Let's apply your reasoning above, for that 1 verse, to the whole context below. If your reasoning doesn't make sense to the rest of those verses 'in context' then it can't make sense for your verse either. IMHO.

Heb 6:2
Of the doctrine of baptisms, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of baptism."
and of laying on of hands, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of HANDS ????
and of resurrection of the dead, "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of "DEAD"?????
and of eternal judgment. "doesn't mean they were all different kinds of "eternal judgment".

If you still believe the way you did, we really just need to agree to disagree from now on. But I will ask you to remind me in the future if ever I try to talk about this baptisms doctrine again. I can't remember you as well as I hope you will remember me.

Baptisms being plural doesn't change doctrines to be plural. This argument doesn't pass basic grammar.

 

[Lizbeth]

Discussion with a beloved forum member this morning raised the question of baptism.
And to the question in my own mind: What is the ONE baptism?

I know of at least two baptisms: Water Baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Is the one baptism one of these, or something else entirely? Let's discuss.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope
when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all,
who is over all and through all and in all. - Ephesians 4:4-6 NIV


I'm struck be the singularity of this description. (in all its elements)

There is one body
and one Spirit,
just as you were called to one hope
when you were called;
5 one Lord,
one faith,
one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all,
who is over all
and through all
and in all. - Ephesians 4:4-6

This is a beautiful thing.
We tend to talk about what divides us.
This outlines what unites us.

[

I believe the one baptism is alluding to being born again........where Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[St. SteVen]

I believe the one baptism is alluding to being born again........where Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of heaven.

There's something to that.
Is born again ever referred to as a baptism?
Do you recognize the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as separate from water baptism?

 

[Hillsage]

Baptisms being plural doesn't change doctrines to be plural.

THAT'S correct. And I never said it did. The doctrines were plural in the context.

This argument doesn't pass basic grammar.

Then I will post the same thing I did last time.

If you still believe the way you did, we really just need to agree to disagree from now on. But I will ask you to remind me in the future if ever I try to talk about this baptisms doctrine again. I can't remember you as well as I hope you will remember me.

 

[Lizbeth]

There's something to that.
Is born again ever referred to as a baptism?
Do you recognize the Baptism with the Holy Spirit as separate from water baptism?

I see the two as being part of the same born again package. They are all being alluded to in that "one baptism" verse. Jesus told Nicodemus we must be born of water and the Spirit. Born again, water baptized and Spirit baptized....all one package so to speak.

 

[St. SteVen]

I see the two as being part of the same born again package. They are all being alluded to in that "one baptism" verse. Jesus told Nicodemus we must be born of water and the Spirit. Born again, water baptized and Spirit baptized....all one package so to speak.

What is the evidence of Holy Spirit baptism?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Wick Stick]

If you still believe the way you did, we really just need to agree to disagree from now on. But I will ask you to remind me in the future if ever I try to talk about this baptisms doctrine again. I can't remember you as well as I hope you will remember me.

That's fine. You seem very confident in your reading, and I am also confident. It seems unlikely that anyone will be swayed.

 

[Wick Stick]

What is the evidence of Holy Spirit baptism?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

It could be a bunch of different things. The classic example is receiving a gift of tongues, but it could also be a healing (as with Paul's sight), or really any sort of miraculous happening. For me it was holy laughter.

 

[Lizbeth]

What is the evidence of Holy Spirit baptism?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit? Just to be clear, I do not question whether the believers in Samaria had received the "indwelling" Spirit when they believed. They were missing something else. Acts 8:14-17 NIV When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that...

www.christianityboard.com

Power...."ye shall receive power when the Holy Ghost comes upon you." Spiritual gifts as the Spirit wills:

Act 2:14-18

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy

Hand in hand with this, in my experience it marked the beginning of an enhanced relationship with the Lord and enhanced ability to understand spiritual things of scripture....the beginning of growth.

 

[St. SteVen]

It could be a bunch of different things. The classic example is receiving a gift of tongues, but it could also be a healing (as with Paul's sight), or really any sort of miraculous happening. For me it was holy laughter.

I agree.
Any manifestation of the Holy Spirit would be evidence.

 

[St. SteVen]

Hand in hand with this, in my experience it marked the beginning of an enhanced relationship with the Lord and enhanced ability to understand spiritual things of scripture....the beginning of growth.

Agree.
Any manifestation of the Spirit is evidence.