Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?

[rockytopva]

Salvation, sanctification, the Holy Spirit, healing, miracles should be as easy as...

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. - 1 John 3:23

 

[Soyeong]

What do you believe are the NT verses that teach how a believer today is saved ?
Just the verses please, let them do the talking for you :)

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so what they said about salvation is essentially commentary on what the OT says about it. Multiple people can all affirm the truth of a verse while having different understandings about what it means, so there would be no point in just listing verses instead of discussing what they mean. For example:

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

So there is a connection between our salvation and obedience to Jesus and the key is to correctly understand what that is, but there are also many incorrect understandings that connection that people can have that do not become resolved if I just quote that verse.

Romans 10:9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are submitting to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for justification and salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

The reason why our entrance into the Kingdom of Heave requires us to choose to be workers of lawfulness is not in order to be good enough to earn our way there, but because that is the way to know Jesus.

 

[rvmb]

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so what they said about salvation is essentially commentary on what the OT says about it. Multiple people can all affirm the truth of a verse while having different understandings about what it means, so there would be no point in just listing verses instead of discussing what they mean. For example:

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

So there is a connection between our salvation and obedience to Jesus and the key is to correctly understand what that is, but there are also many incorrect understandings that connection that people can have that do not become resolved if I just quote that verse.

Romans 10:9-10 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to the righteousness that is by faith proclaiming that the Law of God is not too difficult to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are submitting to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for justification and salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

The reason why our entrance into the Kingdom of Heave requires us to choose to be workers of lawfulness is not in order to be good enough to earn our way there, but because that is the way to know Jesus.

First lets work out who does what :)
Acts 9:10-15, Acts 15:6-25, Rom 11:13, Rom 15:16, Rom 16:25, Gal 1:11-12, Gal 2:7-9 teaches & confirms that Paul has the role to teach salvation to believers today.
Please list the verses that teach Matthew, Hebrews or anyone else has that same authority

 

[Soyeong]

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience is central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God:

Acts 14:21-22 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:25 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 15:16-18 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. 18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,

 

[rvmb]

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience is central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God:

Acts 14:21-22 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:25 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 15:16-18 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. 18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,

 

[rvmb]

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light the Gentiles, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience is central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which Paul also taught based on the Law of God:

Acts 14:21-22 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch, 22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

Acts 20:25 But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25 And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again.

Acts 28:23 When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets.

Romans 15:4 For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

Romans 15:16-18 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God. 18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,

I""n Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry ...""
List the verses that teach Matthew has the same authority to teach salvation to believers today as Paul.
Let the verses do the talking

 

[Taken]

Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?

What Salvation IS, IS Restoration of one’s Soul (back to GOOD as it was when God imparted it into one’s body)

Pss 23:
[3]He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

When?
After Heartful Confessed Belief to the Lord.
After Forgiveness is Given.
After an accounted Bodily Death.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Is a body “Accounted Dead” IF they are Accounted “Crucified with Jesus”.
Yes.

Where is that “accounted”?
1) God Original book of Life
…the unsaved will be blotted out
2) The Lambs Book of Life
…the saved WILL never be blotted out of Gods Book of Life.
… the saved (Crucified With Jesus), CAN never be blotted out of that Book.

*Saved BY Christ Jesus… “ARE” SOUL SAVED BEFORE, physical Death.
*Their body accounted Dead
* They “Occupy” Jesus Risen Body….They called “IN Christ”…
And Remain “IN Christ” as long as their Body is physically alive…
* Body physically Dies? …
saved soul / reborn spirit escorted to Heaven.

WHEN…
Jesus descends from Heaven to Clouds…
Then are the Saved IN Christ Bodies raised up to Him, their own body Glorified…
Prepared ( body, soul, spirit) to meet their Savior….called in English… Rapture
They can NEVER become “Unsaved”.
They ARE KEPT Saved, by the Power of God (who IS Christ) IN Them.

The “are” saved; still alive ON Earth…
are prepared to Serve the Lord God, sharing His Truth.

What about those WHO Believe in their Heart….but yet “Never Confess their Belief”…

There IS a caveat…(even a Warning)…anytime Before their physical death, they may fall prey to an influencer to convince them to doubt or not believe…
They jeopardized their (bought, paid for, offered gift)…and if convinced to doubt, not believe before their physical death…
They will Not be saved.

IF however they DO continue Believing to the moment of their Physical Death…
God Shall save their soul.
And their Body shall be Raised Glorified in the First Resurrection.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rvmb]

Saved, what is it & why the confusion as to how ?

What Salvation IS, IS Restoration of one’s Soul (back to GOOD as it was when God imparted it into one’s body)

Pss 23:
[3]He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

When?
After Heartful Confessed Belief to the Lord.
After Forgiveness is Given.
After an accounted Bodily Death.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Is a body “Accounted Dead” IF they are Accounted “Crucified with Jesus”.
Yes.

Where is that “accounted”?
1) God Original book of Life
…the unsaved will be blotted out
2) The Lambs Book of Life
…the saved WILL never be blotted out of Gods Book of Life.
… the saved (Crucified With Jesus), CAN never be blotted out of that Book.

*Saved BY Christ Jesus… “ARE” SOUL SAVED BEFORE, physical Death.
*Their body accounted Dead
* They “Occupy” Jesus Risen Body….They called “IN Christ”…
And Remain “IN Christ” as long as their Body is physically alive…
* Body physically Dies? …
saved soul / reborn spirit escorted to Heaven.

WHEN…
Jesus descends from Heaven to Clouds…
Then are the Saved IN Christ Bodies raised up to Him, their own body Glorified…
Prepared ( body, soul, spirit) to meet their Savior….called in English… Rapture
They can NEVER become “Unsaved”.
They ARE KEPT Saved, by the Power of God (who IS Christ) IN Them.

The “are” saved; still alive ON Earth…
are prepared to Serve the Lord God, sharing His Truth.

What about those WHO Believe in their Heart….but yet “Never Confess their Belief”…

There IS a caveat…(even a Warning)…anytime Before their physical death, they may fall prey to an influencer to convince them to doubt or not believe…
They jeopardized their (bought, paid for, offered gift)…and if convinced to doubt, not believe before their physical death…
They will Not be saved.

IF however they DO continue Believing to the moment of their Physical Death…
God Shall save their soul.
And their Body shall be Raised Glorified in the First Resurrection.


Glory to God,
Taken

""There IS a caveat…(even a Warning)…anytime Before their physical death, they may fall prey to an influencer to convince them to doubt or not believe…
They jeopardized their (bought, paid for, offered gift)…and if convinced to doubt, not believe before their physical death…
They will Not be saved.""
**
Is that regarding a believer that is saved/sealed by 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so, list the verses from Paul (Romans to Philemon) that supports that view.

 

[Taken]

""There IS a caveat…(even a Warning)…anytime Before their physical death, they may fall prey to an influencer to convince them to doubt or not believe…
They jeopardized their (bought, paid for, offered gift)…and if convinced to doubt, not believe before their physical death…
They will Not be saved.""
**

Is that regarding a believer that is saved/sealed by 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so, list the verses from Paul (Romans to Philemon) that supports that view.

Saved by Christ, by true Heartful confession, and Crucifixion with Jesus Body…
“iS” they who ARE saved … They
“Have Received”… the Spirit of God, IN them.

There is NO power greater than God that can Remove that Salvation…
And once The Lord God saves, He does not remove that Salvation.

IT IS the Believer… who Believes. ( but not Confessed ), is on his “own Power” to keep believing or not.

This is crucial… because Thousands of fallen angels, and wicked anti/ Christ men, can easily convince (un-confessed) Believers to doubt or reject the Lord God.

Saved Believers are”not” targets (so to speak)…

Unsaved, wishy Washy, doubting…the young ignorant (still learning, not committed) are Targets with a bulls-eye for cunning, clever, strong, fallen angels and anti-Christs.


Glory To God,
Taken

 

[rvmb]

Saved by Christ, by true Heartful confession, and Crucifixion with Jesus Body…
“iS” they who ARE saved … They
“Have Received”… the Spirit of God, IN them.

There is NO power greater than God that can Remove that Salvation…
And once The Lord God saves, He does not remove that Salvation.

IT IS the Believer… who Believes. ( but not Confessed ), is on his “own Power” to keep believing or not.

This is crucial… because Thousands of fallen angels, and wicked anti/ Christ men, can easily convince (un-confessed) Believers to doubt or reject the Lord God.

Saved Believers are”not” targets (so to speak)…

Unsaved, wishy Washy, doubting…the young ignorant (still learning, not committed) are Targets with a bulls-eye for cunning, clever, strong, fallen angels and anti-Christs.


Glory To God,
Taken

That's ""wish washy"" opinion, the request was for verses.
If you don't have them then say so.
Try again :)

 

[Ezra]

The sealing of the Holy Spirit happens at baptism.

not water baptism your sealed with the h.s the moment your saved
\

 

[rvmb]

not water baptism your sealed with the h.s the moment your saved
\

1 Cor 15:1-4 << The Gospel
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
**
You are sealed with the HS the moment you believe the Gospel :)

 

[Taken]

@rvmb

Observe… some people…indifferent about The Lord God…

Some people “cringe” at the very mention of the Lord God…(and these people reproduce offspring that learn the same behaviors).

The last 50 years in the US…have seen an explosion of children, not having a clue About the Lord God…but to say “not interested”.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You are sealed with the HS the moment you believe the Gospel :)

Disagree.

Many believe… and can STOP believing.
(Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…
Not bodily dead (crucified with Jesus)
They have NOT become MADE in-dwelt with the HS.
Not Sealed.

A sealed man is never unsealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

That's ""wish washy"" opinion, the request was for verses.
If you don't have them then say so.
Try again :)

Wishy Washy was a general description regarding some believers… believe, then doubt, then maybe, then deny, then believer… roller-coaster.

If you want a Scripture for anything I say, you can not find in Scripture… ASK.

 

[rvmb]

6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
(Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…
Not bodily dead (crucified with Jesus)
They have NOT become MADE in-dwelt with the HS.
Not Sealed.

A sealed man is never unsealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

Disagree.

Many believe… and can STOP believing.
(Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…
Not bodily dead (crucified with Jesus)
They have NOT become MADE in-dwelt with the HS.
Not Sealed.

A sealed man is never unsealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[rvmb]

Disagree.

Many believe… and can STOP believing.
(Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…
Not bodily dead (crucified with Jesus)
They have NOT become MADE in-dwelt with the HS.
Not Sealed.

A sealed man is never unsealed.

Glory to God,
Taken

""Disagree.
Many believe… and can STOP believing.""
Show where Paul teaches a believer can become UNsealed etc :)
**
1 Cor 15:1-4, > The Gospel
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 1:13 > sealed by believing/trusting it
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[rvmb]

Wishy Washy was a general description regarding some believers… believe, then doubt, then maybe, then deny, then believer… roller-coaster.

If you want a Scripture for anything I say, you can not find in Scripture… ASK.

""If you want a Scripture for anything I say, you can not find in Scripture… ASK.""
I asked you for scripture & you replied with opinion
Want to try again ?
Here was the request that you answered with OPINION rather than the requested Scripture
*****************
""There IS a caveat…(even a Warning)…anytime Before their physical death, they may fall prey to an influencer to convince them to doubt or not believe…
They jeopardized their (bought, paid for, offered gift)…and if convinced to doubt, not believe before their physical death…
They will Not be saved.""
**
Is that regarding a believer that is saved/sealed by 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 ?
If so, list the verses from Paul (Romans to Philemon) that supports that view.

 

[Taken]

@rvmb

Your quotes are all jumbled into my quotes.

You did not ask for a scripture.
You “Referenced” a Scripture.

Saved soul is Saved soul, done deal.
Spirit born again, is Spirit born again, done deal.
Sealed is Sealed, done deal.

 

[rvmb]

@rvmb

Your quotes are all jumbled into my quotes.

You did not ask for a scripture.
You “Referenced” a Scripture.

Saved soul is Saved soul, done deal.
Spirit born again, is Spirit born again, done deal.
Sealed is Sealed, done deal.

Clarifying :-
me - You are sealed with the HS the moment you believe the Gospel >> Eph 1:13
you - Disagree. Many believe… and can STOP believing. (Because they are NOT “confessed”Believers)…
Yes, sounds logical since believing is required to be saved/sealed then no longer believing = LOGICALLY no longer sealed
BUT, I am unable to see where Paul teaches that to be so
Eph 1:13 ..after that ye believed, ye were sealed -- were = done , ARE sealed.
2 Tim 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
you - ""Sealed is Sealed, done deal.""
**
Are you aware of verses FROM Paul that teach once a believer is saved/sealed/justified by the Gospel 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 that the SEALED believer can later become UNsaved if they stop believing ?