Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

[St. SteVen]

Source: 30 Bible verses about Annihilation

 

[Jack]

View attachment 76522

Source: 30 Bible verses about Annihilation

Thanks for shattering Universalism!

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks for shattering Universalism!

If so, it shatters Damnationism as well.
How do you account for the contradictions?

 

[Jack]

If so, it shatters Damnationism as well.
How do you account for the contradictions?

Satan has filled your brain with "contradictions". You don't even know why you're in a Christian forum! You don't even know who your god is.

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Exact same Greek Word!

Want me to quote more Jesus' warnings of Hell Fire? Belief in Hell is not required for eternal residency! You don't even have to apply.

 

[Jack]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

You start a thread with "Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?" and then disprove Universalism with Scriptures. You need HELP!

 

[St. SteVen]

You start a thread with "Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?" and then disprove Universalism with Scriptures. You need HELP!

You need a psyche eval.

 

[Jack]

You need a psyche eval.

I have Jesus, God of the Bible. What do you have? Nothing? I don't think you have a clue! You reject the ONLY Savior, Jesus of the Bible. I think you're extremely LOST! And you don't even know why you're in a Christian forum constantly attacking the Christian Bible!

 

[Beebster]

That's a different issue.

I'm talking about recognizing all three biblical doctrines of the final judgement.
- Damnationism (forever burning hell)
- Annihilationism (complete destruction of the wicked)
- Christian Universalism (Ultimate Redemption of humankind)

All three views are biblical and contradictory.

Yes, "All three views are biblical and contradictory."

However, all three views are not scriptural.

Everybody must go through the flames, but nobody burns forever. That is a scriptural fact.

Everybody must be annihilated (destroyed) but not completely. That is a scriptural fact.

And, everybody must be saved. That is a scriptural fact.

 

[Lizbeth]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

I don't dismiss those or any scriptures..........I endeavour to rightly divide and understand them, with the help of the Holy Spirit and in light of the whole counsel of God.

Strange thing my friend, that in spite of Jesus having died and rose again for the sins of the whole world that the whole world will not escape the judgment/wrath of God/perdition so as to not perish. Why is that?

Could it have to do with the fact that one has to actually "receive the atonement" in order for it to be applied to them?

Rom 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

And the very first verse of Romans 5 says we are justified by FAITH....not without it. Again you are neglecting to read to read the whole passage, not just your preferred iisolated bits.

The Israelites had to actually bring a sacrifice, slay it and then eat it for it to be applied to them. Jesus said, "Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." And of course this means to actually believe in and allow/accept His sacrifice (because it is by FAITH, not without it) by proxy and receive Him on the inside.

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't dismiss those or any scriptures..........I endeavour to rightly divide and understand them, with the help of the Holy Spirit and in light of the whole counsel of God.

Strange thing my friend, that in spite of Jesus having died and rose again for the sins of the whole world that the whole world will not escape the judgment/wrath of God/perdition so as to not perish. Why is that?

Could it have to do with the fact that one has to actually "receive the atonement" in order for it to be applied to them?

Rom 5:11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

And the very first verse of Romans 5 says we are justified by FAITH....not without it. Again you are neglecting to read to read the whole passage, not just your preferred iisolated bits.

The Israelites had to actually bring a sacrifice, slay it and then eat it for it to be applied to them. Jesus said, "Except ye eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you." And of course this means to actually believe in and allow/accept His sacrifice (because it is by FAITH, not without it) by proxy and receive Him on the inside.

And lets not forget the very Words of THIS SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST .
If you BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE , you WILL , not might , WILL die in your sins .
HE who recieves YOU recieves me and HE who recieves ME , recieves HE who sent ME .
INto whatso ever house or city ye enter
and they recieve you not , When you leave SHAKE the dust off your f eet as a TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM .
I TELL YOU it will be better FOR SODOM on the day of judgment than for that city .
DO JE SUS make it sound like any kind of a good ending for those who rejected HIM . OR does he make it sound
LIKE a ho rrendous ending . SO . IF JESUS said it , WE SHEEP beleive it .
JUST LIKE HE said , ALL who comes unto ME shall have ETERNAL LIFE .
BUT remember HE SAID all who beleive not SHALL BE DAMNED . He cannot lie .
ITS Time ol stevie starts to behold BOTH the severity of GOD and the GOODNESS .
cause even his version of what HE thinks is the goodness of GOD , Has allowed a lie upon this people .
HIGH time it is we become as children
and simply RATHER THAN trying to change and omit things HE taught
WE SIMPLY BELEIVE what is written .

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't dismiss those or any scriptures..........I endeavour to rightly divide and understand them, with the help of the Holy Spirit and in light of the whole counsel of God.

Strange thing my friend, that in spite of Jesus having died and rose again for the sins of the whole world that the whole world will not escape the judgment/wrath of God/perdition so as to not perish. Why is that?

Your Protestant evangelical view does not account for the countless billions who have never had an opportunity to respond to the gospel that you claim limits who will be saved. Have you not heard of unreached people groups? Joshua Project - Reaching the Unreached | Joshua Project

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[St. SteVen]

Strange thing my friend, that in spite of Jesus having died and rose again for the sins of the whole world that the whole world will not escape the judgment/wrath of God/perdition so as to not perish. Why is that?

Once again you sidestep what is plainly written to add or subtract from the scriptures.
Why are the words "not only for ours" in the verse?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Rockerduck]

Once again you sidestep was is plainly written to add or subtract from the scriptures.
Why are the words "not only for ours" in the verse?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

The NIV waters down 1 John 2:2. the NIV removes Propitiation and adds atoning sacrifice. they are not the same. Propitiation satisfies God's wrath towards us and gives us righteousness. This makes us right with God. Atoning sacrifice just removes the sin, but we still must be right with God. Propitiation covers both the removal of sin and being made right with God. MY Point is Propitiation is a far greater action for the whole world.

 

[Behold]

The Bible does include the false gospel of Universalism.

IN a KJV< it includes it as a man made "doctrine of devils", (Heb 13:9) and its described as a "cursed" Gospel, in Gal 1:8.... and those that teach it, as well.... according to the Apostle Paul.

What ive noticed is that these carnal liars who try to con real Christians with it, and unbelievers into Hell with it, is that they always pretend that "faith" is involved, and that is a large whopping lie.
As Universalism is based on the simple pretext that Because Jesus has come, and He is Savior, then everyone is already saved, or "reconcilled".
And in fact, Hell is waiting for all those who die believing that they were already reconcilled, and never had to trust in Christ and never had to be born again, before they DIED.
Be wary of these devils that teach Hyper Calvinism or Universalism, especially if you are not a Christian, as "Universalism" is a gospel gateway to Hell, and thats a fact.
One of many.
A "Christian" forum should never ever allow a false gospel that denies the real Gospel, (Universalism) to be taught openly., as this is the devil's work.

 

[Lizbeth]

Your Protestant evangelical view does not account for the countless billions who have never had an opportunity to respond to the gospel that you claim limits who will be saved. Have you not heard of unreached people groups? Joshua Project - Reaching the Unreached | Joshua Project

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts
sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The Lord is sovereign over even this, and He is just. Isn't mankind without excuse?.....what may be known of God can be seen in creation.....people whose hearts are inclined can seek the Lord and if/when they do He will answer them by some means. He has ways of stepping in and reaching the "unreached" apart from a human witness and preaching.....through dreams, visions, visitations. How was He communicating with folks long before Christ? Everyone who are appointed to eternal life (foreknown by Him) will be saved. His arm is not too short.

I've struggled with that Romans 2 passage as well. We need to see what was Paul addressing in Romans 2 there. He was not saying that unsaved Gentiles will be saved. He was making the point that those with the Law are not superior to those without the Law. He was addressing a wrong superior attitude many Jews had towards Gentiles, and saying there is no difference between the two...both Jew and Gentile have a conscience that sometimes accuses and sometimes exonerates them. All will be judged alike and all need the Saviour. The Jews are not saved because of having the Law.

 

[Button]

Here's something I find interesting.

My views on Ultimate Redemption (Universalism) are typically dismissed for not aligning with "a whole Bible view".
Seems that saw should cut both ways.

What happens if your "a whole Bible view" includes my scriptures rather than dismisses them? - Then what?

Romans 5:15-19 NIV
But the gift is not like the trespass.
For if the many died by the trespass of the one man,
how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by
the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin:
The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation,
but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man,
how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of
the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

[

Think about it.
If Universalism was part of Christian orthodoxy , there would be no conflict with other faiths. It would be a form of global ecumenism.

Division to impact individuals the world over is three pronged.Religion. Economics.Culture.

Karl Marx said,in part, religion is the opium of the masses.

As long as those open to belief,faith,in an afterlife that is better than this life,they're typically content.

While losing different religions ideologies,and promoting each as the exclusive truth to afterlife reward,leads the way to worldly material division in the other two prongs.

And when that happens,it becomes necessary to install order,leadership,to quell the potential of unrest in the masses. Which means governance. Which is understood by the masses. Because they've already conceded to the controls applied by their god(s) and clergy.

If God is Omnibenevolent,Universalism makes sense.
If God would wish none should perish but all come to the knowledge of the truth,they would. Because truth would naturally enfold and save them. God would believe in us.

However the Bible says God hardens hearts so people cannot do this. Old and New Testaments.

Even Jesus told his Disciples,the reason he always teaches in parables is so not everyone understands the Gospel and comes to repentance. While his Disciples were allowed to understand.Thst was God's doing.

And that remains the way God intended. You can see proof of this if you attend a Bible study. Everyone in the room is under a unique conscious understanding of scripture. Some are clueless.

God told us why this is.

As above so below.

Come on! There was division in Heaven before this world was created.
Lucifer led a war against God because his pride and ego let him think he would be better at the job.

A tree planted in the center of Edens garden was cursed by God first. Consuming it insured the opening of consciousness to dual natures. Good and Evil.

If that wasn't suppose to happen,God wouldn't have put the tree there.
And then allowed a serpent emissary who knew that about the tree , because the serpent slithered into that one of many trees,and then was able to speak to Eve.

Has anyone reported having a conversation with a snake since?

The Bible tells us. Everything is of God and he does all that he pleases.
He is the darkness and the light. He brings peace and calamity. Some translations say, he is the evil and the good.

The Bible,God's words,also tells us,besides God there is no savior.

Think about that.

 

[St. SteVen]

Isn't mankind without excuse?.....what may be known of God can be seen in creation.....

That's the popular apologetic.
But is the gospel message to be found in nature?
Is believing in a creator God enough to satisfy your Protest evangelical requirements for salvation?

 

[Lizbeth]

Once again you sidestep what is plainly written to add or subtract from the scriptures.
Why are the words "not only for ours" in the verse?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

I'm not sidestepping anything. It's hard for this old gal to keep up with every single post/comment/point made on forums as well as keep up with life behind the computer screen. I've many times said that John is making the point that the atonement is available to not only the Jews, but Gentiles too.....the whole world refers to the Gentiles as opposed to just Israel. Israel were the only nation that God had revealed Himself too...they had a tendency to think that everything to do with God was theirs alone and needed correction/instruction.

 

[St. SteVen]

Think about it.
If Universalism was part of Christian orthodoxy , there would be no conflict with other faiths.

The doctrines of Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory as well.
Are the wicked destroyed or do they burn forever?
Obviously Universalism is contradictory to both of those, so where's the problem?

 

[Button]

If so, it shatters Damnationism as well.
How do you account for the contradictions?

You may want to pray for Jack. He can't see God because his fear only sees eternal flames should he focus upon the truth.