The "watch rapture view"

[rebuilder 454]

Come on brother. Think

The coming of Jesus in Rev 14 happens BEFORE the wrath of God.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The 6th seal happens BEFORE the wrath of God.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. This is new vision. The vision of the trumpets of wrath will be completed at the 7th trumpet when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Armageddon is already over and Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals.


This is incorrect.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal.

The kings of the earth and rich men are hiding in caves begging the rocks to fall on them because Jesus has come in power and great glory prior to the wrath of God.

You are so hung up on power and glory you can't even see that this occurs when the signs of the sun, moon and stars occur which is when the 6th seal is opened. Wrath has not begun and will not begin until the 7th seal is opened. And wrath concludes when the 7th trumpet has sounded. That is the result of the armies of heaven coming with Jesus in Revelation 19.



You are posting scripture, but you are not proving what you are saying.

There is no 7 year tribulation in any of the scriptures you have posted.

Whereas I have posted a scripture that shows that Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood.

I have posted a scripture that shows the time of Jacobs trouble does not begin until the midst of the week, so Jacob's trouble cannot be 7 years long.




As I said above. You make claims but the scripture you are posting does not support your claims. For instance there is no scripture that says that the time of Jacobs trouble is 7 years. The Word of God says it cannot be longer than 3.5 years.........and it is shorter than that.

QUOTE
""The second coming occurs at the 6th seal.

The kings of the earth and rich men are hiding in caves begging the rocks to fall on them because Jesus has come in power and great glory prior to the wrath of God.""

Bingo
Yes the seals end with the second coming.
Glad you can finally see that

The ac arrival to the second coming on white horses
(the seals)

 

[The Light]

QUOTE
""The second coming occurs at the 6th seal.

The kings of the earth and rich men are hiding in caves begging the rocks to fall on them because Jesus has come in power and great glory prior to the wrath of God.""

Bingo
Yes the seals end with the second coming.
Glad you can finally see that

The ac arrival to the second coming on white horses
(the seals)

I already understand that the 6th seal is the second coming.

However, you don't understand that Revelation 19 occurs at the end of the 7th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I already understand that the 6th seal is the second coming.

However, you don't understand that Revelation 19 occurs at the end of the 7th seal. The 7th seal is the wrath of God.

Very flawed.
You claim the trumpets are the wrath part.
You claim the wrath is 1 year.
You are also trying to put Rev in a written chronological order.
So in your "1 year wrath" the 2 witnesses prophecy 1200 days.
A year is 365 days.

Not only that but if your chronology is correct then the 144,000 are gathered in Rev 14...ahem prewrath.... but, on your chronology, are on earth during the wrath.
You need to reread it.
The seventh seal is the trumpets beginning. (What you labeled the 1 yr wrath.)
The 6th seal is the 144,000 sealed AGAINST THE FLYING SCORPIONS.
Then, well into the wrath part, you now have those flying scorpions released.

SO, YOU NOW HAVE the 144,000 walking around during what you call the wrath 1 yr period..
I already told you Rev IS NOT in chronological order. IT SKIPPS AROUND IN FLASHBACKS AND MYSTERY.

Rev never was intended to be a neat boxed up package.

It is components lined up and impossibilities eliminated.

The 144k and the locusts debunk your timeline. And the reframing of the second coming, as well as 1 yr trib theory.

What you claim as " obsession with power and great glory " is revealing I am right about the timeline and "PAGG" only fits a correct inclusion of verses.....( that you say "i cannot correctly read")

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do all things of God need spiritual discernment.

No, but many of the things we discuss on this forum do. Certainly many of the things written in highly symbolic books like Daniel and Revelation require spiritual discernment. If you can't acknowledge that then you are just not an honest person.

When God says.........

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal. Etc. Etc.

Do we need spiritual discernment to understand these things?

No. But, those are not the kind of things we're talking about here, are they? No, they are not.

 

[The Light]

Very flawed.
You claim the trumpets are the wrath part.

Nothing flawed about that. The trumpets are the wrath of God.

The vials are the wrath of God. Both take place in the 7th seal.

You claim the wrath is 1 year.

That is what the Word of God says. Do you claim the wrath of God is NOT one year?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

I think, as usual, I will go with the Word of God on this one.

 

[The Light]

You are also trying to put Rev in a written chronological order.

There is an order to Revelation. To understand it, you must understand what you are reading.

Again. Revelation 6-11 is read in order. Exception is the first part of Revelation 7 which is the sealing of the 144,000.

At the end of Revelation 11, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Armageddon is over and it is a time of judgement.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are in the 1st six seals.

When you are reading Revelation 15 you are in the time period of Revelation 7 and the 1st part of Revelation 5.

When you are reading Revelation 16 you are in the time period of Revelation 8-11.

So yes, there is an order to Revelation. To see it you must understand what you are reading.

 

[The Light]

So in your "1 year wrath" the 2 witnesses prophecy 1200 days.
A year is 365 days.

That's because the two witnesses are witnessing during the wrath of God, the Great tribulation and before the great tribulation. That will not make sense to you........however.

Not only that but if your chronology is correct then the 144,000 are gathered in Rev 14...ahem prewrath.... but, on your chronology, are on earth during the wrath.
You need to reread it.

The 144,000 are gathered pre wrath which is also post trib as the tribulation of those days is over at the 6th seal.

The 144,000 are not on the earth during the wrath of God. It looks like they are sealed to go through the wrath of God, but they are not. I'll attempt to explain below.

The seventh seal is the trumpets beginning. (What you labeled the 1 yr wrath.)

Yes. The seventh seal is the trumpets and vials of wrath.

The 6th seal is the 144,000 sealed AGAINST THE FLYING SCORPIONS.

Nope. The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus for the second harvest before the wrath of God.

Those 144,000 are sealed somewhere in the 1st four seals and likely just before or just after the 1st seal is opened.

How do we know that the 144,000 are sealed before the 5th seal? Because the 5th seal is the great tribulation and we can see the great tribulation in Revelation 14.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal in Revelation 14
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

So the 144,000 DO NOT go through the wrath of God and we can see in Revelation 14 that wrath has not begun yet.

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Additionally, we know that there is a harvest at the 6th seal. The 144,000 are first fruits of this harvest and will not be on the earth when the harvest at the 6th seal occurs.

Then, well into the wrath part, you now have those flying scorpions released.
SO, YOU NOW HAVE the 144,000 walking around during what you call the wrath 1 yr period..

As shown above the 144,000 are already in heaven before the 6th seal is opened as they are the first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.

I already told you Rev IS NOT in chronological order. IT SKIPPS AROUND IN FLASHBACKS AND MYSTERY.

I know as shown earlier.

Rev never was intended to be a neat boxed up package.

It is components lined up and impossibilities eliminated.

To understand Revelation, you need to understand what you are reading as Revelation gives two views of the 1st 6 seals and two views of the 7th seal wrath of God (trumpets and vials)

The 144k and the locusts debunk your timeline.

The 144,000 and the locusts prove my timeline as the locusts are in the wrath of God and the 144,000 are in heaven before the 5th seal as shown above. Additionally, the 144,000 are first fruits of the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal and therefore cannot be on the earth when the 7th seal is opened.

And the reframing of the second coming, as well as 1 yr trib theory.

No reframing.

The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation of those days just after the sun and moon are darkened and stars fall from heaven is the second coming.

Jesus remains in the clouds. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. The Church is gathered from heaven and mostly Jews are gathered from the earth. All return to heaven as the great multitude seen in Rev 7 for the marriage supper and remain in heaven during the one year wrath of God. After the year, the armies of heaven return at the end of the 7th seal which is the 7th trumpet and 7th vial.

What you claim as " obsession with power and great glory " is revealing I am right about the timeline and "PAGG" only fits a correct inclusion of verses.....( that you say "i cannot correctly read")

FACT. Jesus returns in power and great glory immediately after the tribulation of those days. The sun and moon are darkened and stars fall from heaven.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

FACT. When the 6th seal is opened the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

FACT. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. At end of the 7th seal, Jesus returns with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

FACT. The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal in power and great glory for a harvest is not the coming of Jesus on white horses at the end of the 7th seal.

 

[ewq1938]

Nothing flawed about that. The trumpets are the wrath of God.

The vials are the wrath of God. Both take place in the 7th seal.

That is what the Word of God says. Do you claim the wrath of God is NOT one year?

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 61
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

I think, as usual, I will go with the Word of God on this one.

Says day of vengeance not a year.

 

[Douggg]

 

[The Light]

Says day of vengeance not a year.

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences

Ezekiel 4
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

 

[Davy]

What draws you to this false conclusion?

Kind of like understanding the Bible. If you want to understand the Bible, you need to eliminate false conclusions. This would be things like the Church is raptured before the final week begins. Or there is one week left in the 70th week of Daniel. Or the great tribulation when the dragon is killing believers is the same as the wrath of God when God pours out His wrath on an evil, unbelieving world. I don't care how many Biblical scholars believe that the great tribulation is the wrath of God, they are in obvious error. Until you eliminate false conclusions you will not understand.

....

An AMAZING... crock of baloney!

There is only ONE 2nd coming by Jesus Christ, and it will be when JESUS HIMSELF said it will be. And He told us in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture, which is AFTER the tribulation.

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 taught the SAME... timing, and only ONE "caught up" event.

It is men's false doctrines of Dispensationalism that falsely claims... THREE comings by Lord Jesus. That doctrine of men came out of 1830's Great Britain through those like John Nelson Darby who first taught a false Pre-trib Rapture theory in a Christian Church.

Darby's Dispensationalism proposed that Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR... to the great tribulation, with the unbelieving Jews and all other unbelievers left-behind to go through the tribulation. Then at the end... of the tribulation, Jesus will return again from Heaven and gather those of the Jews left-behind that converted to Jesus during the tribulation. They call those Jewish converts during the trib by the label 'tribulation saints'. Then Jesus takes them back with Him to Heaven to be with the rest of the Church, and Jesus and the Church reigns FROM HEAVEN while unbelieving Israel is made a nation again apart from Christ, but under Christ's Authority from Heaven.

That 3... comings by Lord Jesus which are jumbled up by Pre-trib doctors, and the last two are not written. Only ONE more coming by Christ Jesus, BACK TO THIS EARTH WHERE HE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN FROM, is written when He comes to gather His FAITHFUL Church on earth. Those still keeping that false Pre-trib doctrine of men when Jesus' 2nd coming happens SHALL NOT BE GATHERED by Lord Jesus.

 

[The Light]

An AMAZING... crock of baloney!

There is only ONE 2nd coming by Jesus Christ, and it will be when JESUS HIMSELF said it will be. And He told us in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture, which is AFTER the tribulation.

Exactly. There is only ONE second coming. It occurs at the sixth seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The sun and the moon are not darkened and stars DO NOT fall from heaven, at the end of the 7th seal. It happens at the 6th seal as stated in scripture.

Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 taught the SAME... timing, and only ONE "caught up" event.

John 10 says there are two folds.

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I noticed that you were never able to answer who these two folds are.

Try again...............who are the two folds.

It is men's false doctrines of Dispensationalism that falsely claims... THREE comings by Lord Jesus. That doctrine of men came out of 1830's Great Britain through those like John Nelson Darby who first taught a false Pre-trib Rapture theory in a Christian Church.

Paul taught two raptures.

One rapture will be like the days of Noah and one rapture will be like the days of Lot.

One rapture at the trump of God or voice of God and one rapture at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

One rapture the Lord Himself comes for His bride and one rapture the Lord sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Darby's Dispensationalism proposed that Jesus comes to rapture the Church

No Paul taught this as did Jesus. Darby picked it up from them through the scriptures.

Amazingly Darby taught that there had to be a restored nation of Isael before the rapture could occur whereas those that did not believe that God would keep His Word to Israel falsely concluded that Israel had replaced the Church.

Of course, history tells us Darby was correct.

PRIOR... to the great tribulation, with the unbelieving Jews and all other unbelievers left-behind to go through the tribulation. Then at the end... of the tribulation, Jesus will return again from Heaven and gather those of the Jews left-behind that converted to Jesus during the tribulation. They call those Jewish converts during the trib by the label 'tribulation saints'. Then Jesus takes them back with Him to Heaven to be with the rest of the Church, and Jesus and the Church reigns FROM HEAVEN while unbelieving Israel is made a nation again apart from Christ, but under Christ's Authority from Heaven.

You got this messed up a little bit.

That 3... comings by Lord Jesus which are jumbled up by Pre-trib doctors, and the last two are not written. Only ONE more coming by Christ Jesus, BACK TO THIS EARTH WHERE HE ASCENDED TO HEAVEN FROM, is written when He comes to gather His FAITHFUL Church on earth. Those still keeping that false Pre-trib doctrine of men when Jesus' 2nd coming happens SHALL NOT BE GATHERED by Lord Jesus.

Ok. Riddle me this.

If the Lord comes only one more time as you claim, and He comes immediately after the tribulation................how does Armageddon happen. Wouldn't Jesus have to come to end the tribulaiton?

That would be two comings.

As usual I don't expect and answer as you have not figured out how your own timeline works.

But give it a shot. How can Jesus come immediately after the tribulation in your timeline without coming first to end the tribulation?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Very flawed.
You claim the trumpets are the wrath part.
You claim the wrath is 1 year.
You are also trying to put Rev in a written chronological order.
So in your "1 year wrath" the 2 witnesses prophecy 1200 days.
A year is 365 days.

Not only that but if your chronology is correct then the 144,000 are gathered in Rev 14...ahem prewrath.... but, on your chronology, are on earth during the wrath.
You need to reread it.
The seventh seal is the trumpets beginning. (What you labeled the 1 yr wrath.)
The 6th seal is the 144,000 sealed AGAINST THE FLYING SCORPIONS.
Then, well into the wrath part, you now have those flying scorpions released.

SO, YOU NOW HAVE the 144,000 walking around during what you call the wrath 1 yr period..
I already told you Rev IS NOT in chronological order. IT SKIPPS AROUND IN FLASHBACKS AND MYSTERY.

Rev never was intended to be a neat boxed up package.

It is components lined up and impossibilities eliminated.

The 144k and the locusts debunk your timeline. And the reframing of the second coming, as well as 1 yr trib theory.

What you claim as " obsession with power and great glory " is revealing I am right about the timeline and "PAGG" only fits a correct inclusion of verses.....( that you say "i cannot correctly read")

You correctly acknowledge that the book of Revelation is not all in chronological order, but somehow can't acknowledge that Revelation 14:14-20 is the same event as Revelation 19:11-21 (namely, the second coming of Christ). Go figure.

 

[ewq1938]

If the Lord comes only one more time as you claim, and He comes immediately after the tribulation................how does Armageddon happen. Wouldn't Jesus have to come to end the tribulaiton?

You just answered that. He comes immediately AFTER the trib which means the trib is already over before Jesus returns. He doesn't have tyo end the trib because he returns after it has ended. The 42 months expire and the trib is over. It just happens that Christ returns immediately after the trib ends, and that's also the day Armageddon starts. Even if Arm starts at another day, it does not affect that the trib ends and Christ immediately returns. Once here, he can come/arrive at other places without that being any further "comings" because there are two comings which are from heaven to Earth/ Only two of those. Any other comings are different comings.

 

[ewq1938]

For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences

Ezekiel 4
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year

Being appointed each day for a year is not a year long vengeance. You are cherry picking verses and mashing them together when they are unrelated.

 

[Davy]

Exactly. There is only ONE second coming. It occurs at the sixth seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The sun and the moon are not darkened and stars DO NOT fall from heaven, at the end of the 7th seal. It happens at the 6th seal as stated in scripture.

The 7th Seal is about it all being over. Even though Rev.6 shows Jesus coming on the 6th Seal, that is also about the 7th final Seal. Jesus comes on 777. Satan comes on 666.

I noticed that you were never able to answer who these two folds are.

Your remarks about the other fold Jesus mentioned is irrelevant to what He revealed for when His future coming will be. You need to stay focused instead of pick'n' choosing Scripture you 'think' I cannot explain.

Paul taught two raptures.

Nope. Paul did NOT teach two raptures.

The word 'rapture' isn't even in The Bible (per the Greek NT). It comes from a Latin translation of Greek harpazo, which the KJV translated as "caught up". And anyone with at least half a brain can look at what Paul said in 1 Thess.4:13-17 and see that he taught only ONE "caught up" event of Christ's saints, and it is ONLY about the gathering of Christ's elect that are still alive on earth. That "caught up" event isn't even about the 'asleep' saints Paul said Jesus brings with Him from Heaven when He comes! That's how deluded you deceived false Pre-trib Rapture folks are. You don't even read 1 Thess.4 where Paul explained these things!

One rapture will be like the days of Noah and one rapture will be like the days of Lot.

One rapture at the trump of God or voice of God and one rapture at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

One rapture the Lord Himself comes for His bride and one rapture the Lord sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Those are man-made ideas, NOT written in God's Word. There will be only ONE "caught up" event, and Apostle Paul explained it. Those other ideas you mention are just men's conjecture.

No Paul taught this as did Jesus. Darby picked it up from them through the scriptures.

Amazingly Darby taught that there had to be a restored nation of Isael before the rapture could occur whereas those that did not believe that God would keep His Word to Israel falsely concluded that Israel had replaced the Church.

Of course, history tells us Darby was correct.

John Nelson Darby was a charlatan. He associated with the Edward Irving church where he even later said lot of the spiritual manifestations going on there were 'suspect'. Darby pushed a SECRET rapture at the first, and so do some false pre-trib rapture preachers today still teach that the rapture will be a 'secret' coming by Jesus, which idea of course is NOT written, because just the OPPOSITE IDEA instead is what is written in God's Word. EVERY EYE shall see Christ's coming in the clouds with great glory!

Then Cyrus Scofield took that false pre-trib doctrine from Darby and created a KJV study Bible pushing Darby's ideas, and it became a popular Bible in America, and the rest is history. Cyrus was reported to have spent time in jail for stealing the inheritance of one of his relatives, and he also got the funds for his study Bible from New York bankers and lawyers at the Club of New York that he was a member of. Scofield truly was a rascal and a charlatan.

You got this messed up a little bit.

Ok. Riddle me this.

If the Lord comes only one more time as you claim, and He comes immediately after the tribulation................how does Armageddon happen. Wouldn't Jesus have to come to end the tribulaiton?

That would be two comings.

Instead of running your mouth which pushes nothing but hot air, you should try actually READING YOUR BIBLE.

The "day of the Lord" is when Jesus returns to END this present world and gather His saints, and begin reign over ALL nations upon this earth with His elect, using the "rod of iron" promised Him. There are MANY EVENTS written that all culminate ON that "day of the Lord" at the very 'hour' of Christ's future return, and the battle of Armageddon is only one of them. So that shows just how little of The Bible you actually know. And because of that, it reveals you are NOT SERIOUS about The Bible, but just spout BLASPHEMIES from the devil against The Word of God, showing just how little you respect it!

 

[The Light]

You correctly acknowledge that the book of Revelation is not all in chronological order, but somehow can't acknowledge that Revelation 14:14-20 is the same event as Revelation 19:11-21 (namely, the second coming of Christ). Go figure.

Revelation 14:14-20 is not the same a Revelation 19:11-21.

Revelation 14:14-20 occurs at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

You just answered that. He comes immediately AFTER the trib which means the trib is already over before Jesus returns. He doesn't have tyo end the trib because he returns after it has ended. The 42 months expire and the trib is over. It just happens that Christ returns immediately after the trib ends, and that's also the day Armageddon starts.

The tribulation, when the dragon is killing Christians and Jews, is over at the 6th seal. Then wrath begins, which is God punishing an evil unbelieving world. This occurs at 7th seal. Armageddon is over at the 7th trumpet / 7th vial.

So the tribulation is over at the 6th seal and Armageddon is over at the end of the 7th seal.

Even if Arm starts at another day, it does not affect that the trib ends and Christ immediately returns. Once here, he can come/arrive at other places without that being any further "comings" because there are two comings which are from heaven to Earth/ Only two of those. Any other comings are different comings.

And yet, the great multitude is already in heaven for the marriage supper during the one year wrath of God. We will have already been raptured and will return with the armies of heaven for Armageddon.

 

[The Light]

Being appointed each day for a year is not a year long vengeance.

It is the day of wrath which is one year long. That is why the day of the Lord's vengeance is the YEAR of recompenses.

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

You are cherry picking verses and mashing them together when they are unrelated.

Cherry picking verses? UNRELATED?????????????

Yeah, cherry picked right out of the 6th seal which is EXACTLY what we are talking about. Does this look familiar?

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

It should look familiar as the verses in Isaiah 34 are talking about what happens at the 6th seal. So the day of wrath is one year as it is the YEAR of recompenses.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[The Light]

The 7th Seal is about it all being over. Even though Rev.6 shows Jesus coming on the 6th Seal, that is also about the 7th final Seal. Jesus comes on 777. Satan comes on 666.

Now that's a load of malarky!

You want to jump from the 6th seal coming Jesus for a harvest, to the end of the 7th seal which is the 7th trumpet/7th vial.

Problem is when Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal, all return to heaven and are the great multitude seen in Revelation 7. Do you just pretend that the ONE YEAR wrath of God and those 1st six trumpets and 1st six vials don't happen.

You think we jump from the 6th seal to the 7th trumpet and skip the first six trumpet? PLEASE THINK.

Your remarks about the other fold Jesus mentioned is irrelevant to what He revealed for when His future coming will be. You need to stay focused instead of pick'n' choosing Scripture you 'think' I cannot explain.

Well, it is relevant because it is the 1st question that you ran from because you don't have the answer. If you understood it, then you might understand your error as it relates to the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It might even get you to realize the God comes first for His Church before the great tribulation.

Nope. Paul did NOT teach two raptures.

1st rapture at the trump of God or voice of God. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

2nd rapture at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets. 1 Corinthians 15: 51-52

The word 'rapture' isn't even in The Bible (per the Greek NT). It comes from a Latin translation of Greek harpazo, which the KJV translated as "caught up". And anyone with at least half a brain can look at what Paul said in 1 Thess.4:13-17 and see that he taught only ONE "caught up" event of Christ's saints, and it is ONLY about the gathering of Christ's elect that are still alive on earth. That "caught up" event isn't even about the 'asleep' saints Paul said Jesus brings with Him from Heaven when He comes! That's how deluded you deceived false Pre-trib Rapture folks are. You don't even read 1 Thess.4 where Paul explained these things!

You seem to misunderstand Paul's writings about the secret rapture........barley and wheat harvest.

Those are man-made ideas, NOT written in God's Word. There will be only ONE "caught up" event, and Apostle Paul explained it. Those other ideas you mention are just men's conjecture.

And it never occurs to you that the Lord tells us to WATCH. We are watching for Him. In your flawed end times timeline, you have the Church on the earth during the wrath of God. Paul tells us believers are not appointed to wrath. This ALONE should tell you that you have no clue what you are talking about.

1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Not much chance you can grasp this. Maybe the light will come on later. Why is the Lord returning from a wedding? What wedding? One thing is for sure. He is coming in an hour that your think not.


Luke 21
36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

John Nelson Darby was a charlatan. He associated with the Edward Irving church where he even later said lot of the spiritual manifestations going on there were 'suspect'. Darby pushed a SECRET rapture at the first, and so do some false pre-trib rapture preachers today still teach that the rapture will be a 'secret' coming by Jesus, which idea of course is NOT written, because just the OPPOSITE IDEA instead is what is written in God's Word. EVERY EYE shall see Christ's coming in the clouds with great glory!

Absolutely the rapture of the Church is a secret rapture. Doubt this will help you today, but the light might turn on someday.

Song of Solomon 2
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

Then Cyrus Scofield took that false pre-trib doctrine from Darby and created a KJV study Bible pushing Darby's ideas, and it became a popular Bible in America, and the rest is history. Cyrus was reported to have spent time in jail for stealing the inheritance of one of his relatives, and he also got the funds for his study Bible from New York bankers and lawyers at the Club of New York that he was a member of. Scofield truly was a rascal and a charlatan.

Darby was right. God would keep His promise to Israel and nation of Israel would be reborn. He said that after there being no Israel for over 1800 years.

Instead of running your mouth which pushes nothing but hot air, you should try actually READING YOUR BIBLE.

Thank you. Many times, my eyes are tired and I just listen to the Bible. I will take your suggestion and try to read more.

Might I suggest that you quit regurgitating everything that you hear without doing any research and try to think for yourself. There is so much that is illogical and unscriptural in your timeline that it is easy to see that you have not thought this out. Why to you have the Church on the earth during the wrath of God when Paul tells us we are not appointed to wrath?

The "day of the Lord" is when Jesus returns to END this present world and gather His saints, and begin reign over ALL nations upon this earth with His elect, using the "rod of iron" promised Him. There are MANY EVENTS written that all culminate ON that "day of the Lord" at the very 'hour' of Christ's future return, and the battle of Armageddon is only one of them. So that shows just how little of The Bible you actually know. And because of that, it reveals you are NOT SERIOUS about The Bible, but just spout BLASPHEMIES from the devil against The Word of God, showing just how little you respect it!

It is evident that you walk in blindness, or you would head the Lord's warning. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. You should WATCH or you will not know the hour that the Lord will come upon you.