Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?

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Button

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The doctrines of Damnationism and Annihilationism are contradictory as well.
Are the wicked destroyed or do they burn forever?
Obviously Universalism is contradictory to both of those, so where's the problem?
Hell is the invention of man.

The Old testament,which the NT scribes could not corrupt, never teaches eternal damnation in fire. Never.

Therefore,if we know,accept,that Jesus was God,and some deny even that, and God does not change, then we know he did not create eternal damnation in flames to be suffered by those who he,Jesus,said,can only come to him if God allows.

Hell is the invention of the Catholic church.

And that is why their influence allowed Hell to be "taught" by Jesus. Their scribes wrote it down.

Then,the church burned heretics alive so watchers would get the message.

If Hell were real,given what Jesus actually taught,then God would be no better in character than Satan.

Because ,as the NT says, He only allows those whose consciousness he opens so to understand scripture to come to the knowledge of his truth. And be saved from his sending them to eternal fire? That's Omni benevolence?

The RCC invented a terroristic cult doctrine. And applied God's name to it.
The RCC is pagan.Which is why they have idols in their temples,venerate body parts of the dead,necromancy,and charged money,indulgences,to the gullible who were told EVERY CATHOLIC goes to micro hell,Purgatory,to burn off the residual sins they died in. Before being judged worthy of Heaven.
Pay indulgences,money,to the church and it's a get out of purgatory early ransom. The RCC today is the richest religious entity on Earth.
People in that time knew about the cult of Moloch. They knew what it was to be burned alive by a gods will.

Idolatry is also why the RCC omitted the second commandment regarding idols.
Don't forget Necromancy. The RC. venerates body parts of dead "saints".

Remember how Jesus tells us,we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free?

Regardless of the agenda that obfuscated the actual teachings of Christ,Jesus insured none the less his truth would shine in the man-canonized version of his words.

Why is the world worse off now than even before Jesus? When we're told Christianity is the foremost populace faith on Earth?
 
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amigo de christo

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The Lord is sovereign over even this, and He is just. Isn't mankind without excuse?.....what may be known of God can be seen in creation.....people whose hearts are inclined can seek the Lord and if/when they do He will answer them by some means. He has ways of stepping in and reaching the "unreached" apart from a human witness and preaching.....through dreams, visions, visitations. How was He communicating with folks long before Christ? Everyone who are appointed to eternal life (foreknown by Him) will be saved. His arm is not too short.

I've struggled with that Romans 2 passage as well. We need to see what was Paul addressing in Romans 2 there. He was not saying that unsaved Gentiles will be saved. He was making the point that those with the Law are not superior to those without the Law. He was addressing a wrong superior attitude many Jews had towards Gentiles, and saying there is no difference between the two...both Jew and Gentile have a conscience that sometimes accuses and sometimes exonerates them. All will be judged alike and all need the Saviour. The Jews are not saved because of having the Law.
i think folks forget that it was a le tter .
meaning had they read on they had seen that when paul was saying when the gentiles who have not the law
do by na ture the things in the law they become a law unto themselves
WAS talking about the gentiles whose faith was in Christ .
Because soon after he writes that he then flat out says
Are we better than they , NO , IN NO WAY
becuase ALL HAVE SINNED , ALL FALL SHORT .
too many folks are heeding a universalism view point .
NO gentile can fullfill the law anymore than a jew could , ALL gentiles ALL jews
ALL have sinned , none can be jus tifed by the law .
SO when paul was saying what he was about gentiles , THE LAW WRI TTEN on their hearts
IS Talking about THOSE whose faith was in CHRIST .
THE NEW covenant wherein the law is wri tten upon the hearts of the believing jew and beleiving gentile .
People really need to learn to read the letters as a whole . IN OTHER words learn to rightly divide things .
BUT the p roblem is many learn the scrips Through views of some mans teaching
example
Universalism
or prospeirty gopsel
or osas , or etc .
THEY see what view point the teaching of men made about said scrip which always points TO the teaching of some man
NOT the rightly divided truth .
 
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amigo de christo

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I'm not sidestepping anything. It's hard for this old gal to keep up with every single post/comment/point made on forums as well as keep up with life behind the computer screen. I've many times said that John is making the point that the atonement is available to not only the Jews, but Gentiles too.....the whole world refers to the Gentiles as opposed to just Israel. Israel were the only nation that God had revealed Himself too...they had a tendency to think that everything to do with God was theirs alone and needed correction/instruction.
sister , i would not heed a word one outta his mouth .
HE is so easy to expose . Its why he often wont respond to me at all .
The man is a solidier of deconstrution . that alone spells major problems .
Folks will always see parts of the bible that fit the narrative of what they and their desired teaching shows it to be .
Again an example is
An universalists will see things like
SO in adam all were dead
so in christ shall All be made alive . and they see the all to mean UNIVERSAL salvation .
BUT notice HOW quickly they forget the part about HOW ONE HAS TO B ELEIVE in HIM .
As if when paul wrote SO all in Christ shall be made alive
that includes those who beleived not on him .
EVEN the scrip proves him dead wrong .
And not just one scrip , but many scrips . Awake thou that sleepest , awake from the dead
and CHRIST shall give thee light . PEOPLE have to BELEIVE on HIM .
if not they still the walking dead . stev en is e asy to prove false . ande its why he often
ignores my simple reminders to him .
 

St. SteVen

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Again an example is
An universalists will see things like
SO in adam all were dead
so in christ shall All be made alive . and they see the all to mean UNIVERSAL salvation .
Well... that's exactly what the verse says.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

BUT notice HOW quickly they forget the part about HOW ONE HAS TO B ELEIVE in HIM .
I believe that too.

Everyone who has knees to bow and a tongue to speak, in heaven and on earth and under the earth (in the realm of the dead), will whole-heartedly, and without reservation, acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord. No one can say that “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” you will be saved. Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. (the reason for the bodily resurrection) Scriptural support below.

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

Further reading: Isaiah 45:23; Romans 14:11; Revelation 15:4
 
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Marvelloustime

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i think folks forget that it was a le tter .
meaning had they read on they had seen that when paul was saying when the gentiles who have not the law
do by na ture the things in the law they become a law unto themselves
WAS talking about the gentiles whose faith was in Christ .
Because soon after he writes that he then flat out says
Are we better than they , NO , IN NO WAY
becuase ALL HAVE SINNED , ALL FALL SHORT .
too many folks are heeding a universalism view point .
NO gentile can fullfill the law anymore than a jew could , ALL gentiles ALL jews
ALL have sinned , none can be jus tifed by the law .
SO when paul was saying what he was about gentiles , THE LAW WRI TTEN on their hearts
IS Talking about THOSE whose faith was in CHRIST .
THE NEW covenant wherein the law is wri tten upon the hearts of the believing jew and beleiving gentile .
People really need to learn to read the letters as a whole . IN OTHER words learn to rightly divide things .
BUT the p roblem is many learn the scrips Through views of some mans teaching
example
Universalism
or prospeirty gopsel
or osas , or etc .
THEY see what view point the teaching of men made about said scrip which always points TO the teaching of some man
NOT the rightly divided truth .
@amigo de christo
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Lizbeth

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That's the popular apologetic.
But is the gospel message to be found in nature?
Is believing in a creator God enough to satisfy your Protest evangelical requirements for salvation?
As I said, observing and living in creation may cause the heart to open and seek the Lord, and He has promised that those who seek shall find.

Act 17:24-27

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
 
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Lizbeth

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The Bible does include the false gospel of Universalism.

IN a KJV< it includes it as a man made "doctrine of devils", (Heb 13:9) and its described as a "cursed" Gospel, in Gal 1:8.... and those that teach it, as well.... according to the Apostle Paul.

What ive noticed is that these carnal liars who try to con real Christians with it, and unbelievers into Hell with it, is that they always pretend that "faith" is involved, and that is a large whopping lie.
As Universalism is based on the simple pretext that Because Jesus has come, and He is Savior, then everyone is already saved, or "reconcilled".
And in fact, Hell is waiting for all those who die believing that they were already reconcilled, and never had to trust in Christ and never had to be born again, before they DIED.
Be wary of these devils that teach Hyper Calvinism or Universalism, especially if you are not a Christian, as "Universalism" is a gospel gateway to Hell, and thats a fact.
One of many.
A "Christian" forum should never ever allow a false gospel that denies the real Gospel, (Universalism) to be taught openly., as this is the devil's work.
It's obvious and clear that the whole world is not reconciled to God, otherwise they would "know" Him and acknowledge Him. They would be able to perceive Him because when one comes to Christ and is reconciled to God He is revealed to the heart. and one enters into a living two-way relationship with Him as well as no longer living a sinful lifestyle.

And if the whole world was reconciled to God, why would He still be calling them wicked, sinners, unbelieving and ENEMIES of His.
 
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Lizbeth

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Think about it.
If Universalism was part of Christian orthodoxy , there would be no conflict with other faiths. It would be a form of global ecumenism.

Division to impact individuals the world over is three pronged.Religion. Economics.Culture.

Karl Marx said,in part, religion is the opium of the masses.

As long as those open to belief,faith,in an afterlife that is better than this life,they're typically content.

While losing different religions ideologies,and promoting each as the exclusive truth to afterlife reward,leads the way to worldly material division in the other two prongs.

And when that happens,it becomes necessary to install order,leadership,to quell the potential of unrest in the masses. Which means governance. Which is understood by the masses. Because they've already conceded to the controls applied by their god(s) and clergy.

If God is Omnibenevolent,Universalism makes sense.
If God would wish none should perish but all come to the knowledge of the truth,they would. Because truth would naturally enfold and save them. God would believe in us.

However the Bible says God hardens hearts so people cannot do this. Old and New Testaments.

Even Jesus told his Disciples,the reason he always teaches in parables is so not everyone understands the Gospel and comes to repentance. While his Disciples were allowed to understand.Thst was God's doing.

And that remains the way God intended. You can see proof of this if you attend a Bible study. Everyone in the room is under a unique conscious understanding of scripture. Some are clueless.

God told us why this is.

As above so below.

Come on! There was division in Heaven before this world was created.
Lucifer led a war against God because his pride and ego let him think he would be better at the job.

A tree planted in the center of Edens garden was cursed by God first. Consuming it insured the opening of consciousness to dual natures. Good and Evil.

If that wasn't suppose to happen,God wouldn't have put the tree there.
And then allowed a serpent emissary who knew that about the tree , because the serpent slithered into that one of many trees,and then was able to speak to Eve.

Has anyone reported having a conversation with a snake since?

The Bible tells us. Everything is of God and he does all that he pleases.
He is the darkness and the light. He brings peace and calamity. Some translations say, he is the evil and the good.

The Bible,God's words,also tells us,besides God there is no savior
Yes, I believe the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a test and tutor.....because God wasn't going to stop at making man "good", but He wanted to make him "perfect". That Tree foreshadowed the Law in some ways. The fall of man came with hardships and consequences that we are to learn from and be changed by (if we will)...that we may partake of His holiness.

What I believe we see in scripture is that the Lord is sovereign over all because He has foreknown everything that would happen and that man and devil would do and has "gone before", gone ahead of it as it were, and woven it all into His plans and purposes. I think it needs to be said, that just because He created both good and evil in a sense, it doesnt' mean there is evil/darkness in Him...because the bible says there is not darkness in Him. He doesn't tempt man or devil....but simply allows the temptations in His great wisdom and because He gives both man and devil a free will. When He hardens a heart it is after many attempts to reach the person first, as Pharaoh is an example of this. And hardening a heart means He has stopped trying and is giving man over to their own will and own hardness of heart, allowing it....and He has foreknown that this would happen. So it is in that sense that He has created some to be vessels of honour and others to be vessels of dishonour...it is according to His foreknowledge of them, and that includes how He "created the destroyer (devil) to work havoc" as well.....the devil chose to rebel, God didn't tempt or force him to.
 

St. SteVen

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As I said, observing and living in creation may cause the heart to open and seek the Lord, and He has promised that those who seek shall find.

Act 17:24-27

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
That's an awfully BIG maybe to brand as WITHOUT EXCUSE.
 
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Lizbeth

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Hell is the invention of man.

The Old testament,which the NT scribes could not corrupt, never teaches eternal damnation in fire. Never.

Therefore,if we know,accept,that Jesus was God,and some deny even that, and God does not change, then we know he did not create eternal damnation in flames to be suffered by those who he,Jesus,said,can only come to him if God allows.

Hell is the invention of the Catholic church.

And that is why their influence allowed Hell to be "taught" by Jesus. Their scribes wrote it down.

Then,the church burned heretics alive so watchers would get the message.

If Hell were real,given what Jesus actually taught,then God would be no better in character than Satan.

Because ,as the NT says, He only allows those whose consciousness he opens so to understand scripture to come to the knowledge of his truth. And be saved from his sending them to eternal fire? That's Omni benevolence?

The RCC invented a terroristic cult doctrine. And applied God's name to it.
The RCC is pagan.Which is why they have idols in their temples,venerate body parts of the dead,necromancy,and charged money,indulgences,to the gullible who were told EVERY CATHOLIC goes to micro hell,Purgatory,to burn off the residual sins they died in. Before being judged worthy of Heaven.
Pay indulgences,money,to the church and it's a get out of purgatory early ransom. The RCC today is the richest religious entity on Earth.
People in that time knew about the cult of Moloch. They knew what it was to be burned alive by a gods will.

Idolatry is also why the RCC omitted the second commandment regarding idols.
Don't forget Necromancy. The RC. venerates body parts of dead "saints".

Remember how Jesus tells us,we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free?

Regardless of the agenda that obfuscated the actual teachings of Christ,Jesus insured none the less his truth would shine in the man-canonized version of his words.

Why is the world worse off now than even before Jesus? When we're told Christianity is the foremost populace faith on Earth?
Hell...gehenna....is simply death. Choose life or choose death...ie, eternal life or permanent death. Death will feed on the wicked forever. Not literally, but it is conveying the sense that once judged and consigned to death there will be no coming back from it.....it is the sentence of death. That is what it means to "perish"....body and soul "dissolved"/destroyed in death. Not for a limited age, but for always. The human soul consists of the human spirit dwelling in a body/vessel/tent/tabernacle....if body is dissolved/destroyed without being able to "put on immortality" the soul is destroyed as well. The soul being essentially the identity and expression of the individual person. The next age (age to come) is never-ending, ie, eternal. So if anyone really wants to interpret "aion" and "aionios" as an age when applied to judgment as an age, then I think maybe they can go ahead as long as they understand the age it is referring to is the age to come, which is everlasting.
sister , i would not heed a word one outta his mouth .
HE is so easy to expose . Its why he often wont respond to me at all .
The man is a solidier of deconstrution . that alone spells major problems .
Folks will always see parts of the bible that fit the narrative of what they and their desired teaching shows it to be .
Again an example is
An universalists will see things like
SO in adam all were dead
so in christ shall All be made alive . and they see the all to mean UNIVERSAL salvation .
BUT notice HOW quickly they forget the part about HOW ONE HAS TO B ELEIVE in HIM .
As if when paul wrote SO all in Christ shall be made alive
that includes those who beleived not on him .
EVEN the scrip proves him dead wrong .
And not just one scrip , but many scrips . Awake thou that sleepest , awake from the dead
and CHRIST shall give thee light . PEOPLE have to BELEIVE on HIM .
if not they still the walking dead . stev en is e asy to prove false . ande its why he often
ignores my simple reminders to him .
Amen, I sure do agree. We have been discussing that passage at length on the other thread, but he is not getting it, unfortunately.
 
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amigo de christo

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It's obvious and clear that the whole world is not reconciled to God, otherwise they would "know" Him and acknowledge Him. They would be able to perceive Him because when one comes to Christ and is reconciled to God He is revealed to the heart. and one enters into a living two-way relationship with Him as well as no longer living a sinful lifestyle.

And if the whole world was reconciled to God, why would He still be calling them wicked, sinners, unbelieving and ENEMIES of His.
You spot on right .
And paul knew that to be true .
ITS why he said GOD has given US THE WORD OF RECONCILATION . gee i wonder what WORD that was .
OH YEAH THE GOSPEL , SO if one believes IN CHRIST , HE IS RECONCILED TO GOD .
st steven is easy to expose . i dont wish the man ill will , but man he is very dangerous and has no idea of the danger he is truly in
LEST HE REPENT and actually START PREACHING JESUS THE CHRIST again . cause JESUS IS the ONLY way
MAN can be reconciled to GOD .
And if one believes NOT the testimony GOD the FATHER GAVE of the SON
well then , JOHN IS RIGHT , THEY CALL GOD A LIAR .
and all liars will their part IN THE LAKE OF FIRE . st steven sees what he sees
T HROUGH the realm of universalism , and its why he sees as he sees and yet is blind .
 
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Button

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Hell...gehenna....is simply death. Choose life or choose death...ie, eternal life or permanent death. Death will feed on the wicked forever. Not literally, but it is conveying the sense that once judged and consigned to death there will be no coming back from it.....it is the sentence of death. That is what it means to "perish"....body and soul "dissolved"/destroyed in death. Not for a limited age, but for always. The human soul consists of the human spirit dwelling in a body/vessel/tent/tabernacle....if body is dissolved/destroyed without being able to "put on immortality" the soul is destroyed as well. The soul being essentially the identity and expression of the individual person. The next age (age to come) is never-ending, ie, eternal. So if anyone really wants to interpret "aion" and "aionios" as an age when applied to judgment as an age, then I think maybe they can go ahead as long as they understand the age it is referring to is the age to come, which is everlasting.

Amen, I sure do agree. We have been discussing that passage at length on the other thread, but he is not getting it, unfortunately.
The human soul was born of God and given to the flesh. The flesh,born from the dust that was born,created,from God, to be human in this world.

When the flesh dies it returns to the dust from which it sprang. When the soil then departs the flesh it returns to God who gave it.
Nothing actually dies. Because God cannot die.
Death itself does not feed. Death is the void where life enters at God's discretion.

Die in the woods,rot.

Life is there. Candida albicans begin to break down the flesh. Worms begin to consume the flesh. The biological processes that sustained life ceased. The innate biological processes begin to take away that what was once alive. Because those are now alive to consume that what is dead.

All as God designed to occur.
 

Button

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Yes, I believe the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was a test and tutor.....because God wasn't going to stop at making man "good", but He wanted to make him "perfect". That Tree foreshadowed the Law in some ways. The fall of man came with hardships and consequences that we are to learn from and be changed by (if we will)...that we may partake of His holiness.

What I believe we see in scripture is that the Lord is sovereign over all because He has foreknown everything that would happen and that man and devil would do and has "gone before", gone ahead of it as it were, and woven it all into His plans and purposes. I think it needs to be said, that just because He created both good and evil in a sense, it doesnt' mean there is evil/darkness in Him...because the bible says there is not darkness in Him. He doesn't tempt man or devil....but simply allows the temptations in His great wisdom and because He gives both man and devil a free will. When He hardens a heart it is after many attempts to reach the person first, as Pharaoh is an example of this. And hardening a heart means He has stopped trying and is giving man over to their own will and own hardness of heart, allowing it....and He has foreknown that this would happen. So it is in that sense that He has created some to be vessels of honour and others to be vessels of dishonour...it is according to His foreknowledge of them, and that includes how He "created the destroyer (devil) to work havoc" as well.....the devil chose to rebel, God didn't tempt or force him to.
I think if we accept God is Sovereign,has dominion over his creation,and is Omniscient, with regard to the fall, he set the whole thing up.

You don't plant a tree bearing fruit that is off limits in the center of your garden for no reason. It can't be a test. Because two people who do not know right from wrong, "good from evil", cannot make a conscious choice to obey. Or,disobey.

Their innocence lets them be followers.

If they had not fallen,future people's wouldn't seek out God so to better their circumstances.

Psalm 29:1-2 and 1 Chronicles 16:29
 

St. SteVen

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We have been discussing that passage at length on the other thread, but he is not getting it, unfortunately.
That saw cuts both ways.
You can't seem to accept what either 1 Corinthians 15:22 or Romans 5:18-19 plainly say.

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 
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soberxp

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That saw cuts both ways.
You can't seem to accept what either 1 Corinthians 15:22 or Romans 5:18-19 plainly say.

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
This depends on whether one believes that God has placed all mankind in the hands of Christ.I believe.
 
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St. SteVen

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That saw cuts both ways.
You can't seem to accept what either 1 Corinthians 15:22 or Romans 5:18-19 plainly say.

1 Corinthians 15:22 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
Here are a few more.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
 

St. SteVen

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If that is so,then are all people saved by Christ?
Seems so.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32, 36
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

John 1:29 NIV
... The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said,
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
 
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