Could Ezekiel 37, 38 and 39 all be post millennial?

[shepherdsword]

Remember you started this conversation and I know in good conscience you cannot finish it with integrity.

I started the thread asking an eschatological question and you took it here. Who are you to question anyone's integrity? You totally ignored my last post

You are unable to discern Johns reasonings because you infer pre-existence. You simply do not understand the second Adam.

I assume nothing. The scripture explicitly states the pre-existence of Christ in numerous places. You do not understand the real Jesus

1 Corinthians 15:45: "The first man Adam became a living being; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

God (Almighty) cannot become a Life-Giving Spirit as He grants immortality to those whom He creates.

His "becoming" has everything to do with his incarnation. He became a man.

As David wrote, “He (Jesus) asked life of You (God), and You (God) gave it to him, length of days forever and ever” (Psalm 21:4).

Jesus affirmed this by saying, “The Father has granted the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).

Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35) and, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father (for Life) except through me” (John 14:6).

“I live because of the Father” (John 6:57), and again, “As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).

Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh (100% Human!) 4 and was declared to be the Son of God IN POWER according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord Ro 1:1–4.

All of these verses are dealing with his incarnation, his redemption of man and his resurrection.

God raised Christ and blessed him with immortality which is Divine nature (with Power) having it not in his possession previously.

So yes! Logos became Flesh and dwelt among us in the form of the Lord Jesus Christ who was granted LIFE as a result of his obedience.

Remove the granted LIFE from Christ and you remove Logos!

If you believe Christ was immortal before he was raised you remove Logos!

What utter nonsense. I have proved that the scripture states the deity and pre-existence of the Logos. Read John 1:1 and the scholarly perspective I posted. You ignored it and just went back to regurgitating your same old vile garbage.

Jesus Christ was either given immortality by His Father, or he was not...if you say he was not, then you have lost your hope of eternal life.

He was given immortality in his human form as the first fruits of the resurrection. He is the pattern for those of us who are to follow. It doesn't negate his pre-existance

What interesting is you cannot distinguish between Christ in the flesh and him glorified... you know not the difference!

I think it is you who knows nothing of the glory of Christ. Especially that glory he had with the Father before the world began.

Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Therefore you know not the Victory.

You know nothing of the battles I have faced. The pain I have endured and the losses I have experienced.

Conclusion:

If Christ was immortal before he was raised, it would undermine the Logos because the very essence of Jesus’ work was the obedient path he took, culminating in his resurrection and the granting of life by the Father. If we take away this granting of life, we lose the very victory that came from his obedience and resurrection.

This is faulty reasoning and a clear contradiction of scripture. Your confusion comes from your failure to proper delineate between the scriptures that refer to Christ's humanity and his deity. You box the Logos into some vain invention that disguises who he really is.

Maybe it's time for you to approach John 1 with the whole picture of Christ life and purpose and God's work in him.

Maybe it's time for you to humble yourself and admit that you understand very little about the scriptures and the only hidden thing you have is the truth that is hidden from you.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I started the thread asking an eschatological question and you took it here. Who are you to question anyone's integrity? You totally ignored my last post

The post was not your work!

I assume nothing. The scripture explicitly states the pre-existence of Christ in numerous places. You do not understand the real Jesus

No, it doesn't and you saying so carries not weight whatsoever.

His "becoming" has everything to do with his incarnation. He became a man.

Christ was born of a woman in the fallen line of Adam! You have nothing in the Word of God to prove incarnation in essence or nature.

God was in Christ in thought i.e Logos!

All of these verses are dealing with his incarnation, his redemption of man and his resurrection.

View attachment 80193

Your ability to quote others erroneous teachings has been noted.

What utter nonsense. I have proved that the scripture states the deity and pre-existence of the Logos.

But not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Read John 1:1 and the scholarly perspective I posted. You ignored it and just went back to regurgitating your same old vile garbage.

You put your trust in blind teachers.

He was given immortality in his human form as the first fruits of the resurrection. He is the pattern for those of us who are to follow. It doesn't negate his pre-existance

So you acknowledge your god was given immortality?

I think it is you who knows nothing of the glory of Christ. Especially that glory he had with the Father before the world began.

It's because it's God's Glory which is the same Glory promised to the Saints, who by the way did not pre-exist!

Jn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If only you understood the pre-eminence of Christ as Paul and John did!

Colossians 1:18: "And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent."

God cannot have a beginning
God cannot be born
God cannot be pre-eminent as He is the Self Existent Uncreate God who alone has Immortality.

You know nothing of the battles I have faced. The pain I have endured and the losses I have experienced.

Many people have....but this has nothing to do with your false understanding of John 1:1-4 & 18.

This is faulty reasoning and a clear contradiction of scripture. Your confusion comes from your failure to proper delineate between the scriptures that refer to Christ's humanity and his deity. You box the Logos into some vain invention that disguises who he really is.

You keep inferring duality but never with Scripture, why is that?

Maybe it's time for you to humble yourself and admit that you understand very little about the scriptures and the only hidden thing you have is the truth that is hidden from you.

I have pointed out the error in your understanding, and now it is up to you to revisit and learn the original Gospel. As it stands, you hold a paradoxical belief: that Jesus received immortality from God, which contradicts the understanding of Jesus as God Himself.

 

[shepherdsword]

The post was not your work!

No, it doesn't and you saying so carries not weight whatsoever.

Christ was born of a woman in the fallen line of Adam! You have nothing in the Word of God to prove incarnation in essence or nature.

God was in Christ in thought i.e Logos!

Your ability to quote others erroneous teachings has been noted.

But not the Lord Jesus Christ.

You put your trust in blind teachers.

So you acknowledge your god was given immortality?

It's because it's God's Glory which is the same Glory promised to the Saints, who by the way did not pre-exist!

If only you understood the pre-eminence of Christ as Paul and John did!

Colossians 1:18: "And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent."

God cannot have a beginning
God cannot be born
God cannot be pre-eminent as He is the Self Existent Uncreate God who alone has Immortality.


Many people have....but this has nothing to do with your false understanding of John 1:1-4 & 18.

You keep inferring duality but never with Scripture, why is that?

I have pointed out the error in your understanding, and now it is up to you to revisit and learn the original Gospel. As it stands, you hold a paradoxical belief: that Jesus received immortality from God, which contradicts the understanding of Jesus as God Himself.

At this point I will obey the scripture.

Tit 3:10-11 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[Hiddenthings]

At this point I will obey the scripture.

It’s an easy way out for you because you lack the evidence. I can demonstrate that Christ is preeminent in all things, while you impose a pre-existence that lacks textual support. If it was true, the notions in your mind would be the same as the Apostles, but they are not.

Your god became...mine didn't
Your god is the last Adam mine isn't
Your god was given immortality, mine didn't

I think you get it but until you question the Word for yourself and put away your blind teachers you will never know the truth.

 

[Davy]

Ok, thanks for your response. I can see why you’re putting Revelation 20:1-4 at a future point in time and I realize the Amill folks put verses 1-3 in the past and us currently being in the millennium.

I don’t want to speak for you but I was thinking you probably put Satan being bound physically at a future point, but then it seemed like you were saying Satan was currently metaphorically bound in some kind of way in post #260 when you said “Thus the 2 Timothy 1 Scripture is metaphorically speaking about Christ having already defeated the devil via His death on the cross”.

Thanks for your clarification on this.

Lord Jesus having defeated the devil at the cross says nothing... about Satan being bound. You would have had to 'assume' I meant that, which of course would be 'adding' an idea to my words that I never said. You've obviously heard that idea from someone else most likely.

Here is one of the NT Scriptures that men's doctrines assumed... meant the devil was bound at the time of the cross:

John 12:31-33
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me.
33 This He said, signifying what death He should die.
KJV

Then those who assumed... that ran into problems because of what Peter said about Satan still walking about after the time of the cross...

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
KJV

So think about that, if they were correct, that Satan was bound at the time of Christ's cross, (like many Amills wrongly believe), then how is it that Peter said after the time of the cross that the devil is still able to deceive? And that idea of "because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour" is about Satan's power to deceive. Yet the description of his being 'bound' per Revelation 20:3 is that he cannot deceive for the "thousand years".

Then there's the many Revelation Scriptures Lord Jesus gave us that show Satan is the main one behind the coming great deception for the time of "great tribulation" that is nearly upon us. Men's doctrines of Amillennialism are easy to debunk when following the actual written Bible Scriptures.

 

[Davy]

Ok, I would say the second death that the unbelievers experience is not an enemy to us believers, and it’s eternal so it’s not going to be destroyed. Revelation 6:10 How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Per Hebrews 2:14 Satan has been given the 'power of death'. That means he is over it. Yet the 'concept' of death by itself per Rev.20:14 is a different idea, and means even the 'idea' of death.

The devil existed prior to the concept of 'death', per God's parable about him in Ezekiel 28 using the "king of Tyrus". Back in the old world Lucifer followed God, as God created him originally perfect in his ways. Death entered in for this present 2nd world earth age after Lucifer had fallen, and is only part of this present world time up to the future time when it also finally goes into the "lake of fire" and is no more.

Well, once someone has been resurrected they can’t die again, so death has no power at that time, it’s destroyed when everyone gets resurrected. Why would you think death doesn’t get destroyed until it’s cast into the LOF? “Then cometh the end” can happen prior to the GWTJ, all rule, power, and authority is put down prior to the GWTJ.

One that is raised from the dead CAN... DIE AGAIN, but not their flesh, but their spirit with soul in the future "lake of fire". This was Lord Jesus' main point of Matthew 10:28, to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul, but to fear HIM Who can destroy both spirit body with soul in hell (word geena used there to point to the future "lake of fire" event). That latter destruction is what is called the "second death", and it is not to the flesh, but to the spirits and souls who refuse in final to accept The Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

 

[Zao is life]

Typical Premils, which you are obviously not, are forced to conclude that the above verses you quoted are somehow not referring to the same event as this...

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Because of that they are forced to either conclude that unbelievers will be cast into the lake of fire on two entirely separate occasions or, if they acknowledge that Matthew 25:41 and Rev 20:15 refer to the same event, that somehow Matthew 25:41 occurs 1,000+ years after Jesus comes with His angels despite the fact that Jesus gave no indication of such at all and instead indicated that it would occur at the judgment that will occur at His second coming.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not understand who alone possesses life in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26) or ever will ALONE possess life in Himself;

Nor do they know that the eternal life given to them is given alone in the one who alone could say "I am alive forevermore" after rising again from the dead by His own power, and why He alone will always be alive forevermore (Revelation 1:18), possessing immortality (1 Timothy 6:16) after having died and risen from the dead by His own power.

You will never rise again from the dead by your own power - hence you will never possess your immortality the way Paul taught us only Christ does - hence you will never live forever by your own power - and the eternal life given in Christ to you, you will never have in yourself, the way He has eternal life in Himself.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not even understand why they are alive now!

Nor do they understand in whom eternal life is given to them, or why being alive forever is dependent upon whether or not they remain in Him

- even when they hear the lie - as their father Adam heard and believed the lie before them.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who speak the way you do.

God is more concerned about those who like you believe that you yourself will be "like the one who alone has (eternal) life in Himself and who alone is alive forever more by His own life which He possesses in Himself, possessing His immortality, having died and risen again by His own power.

So in your fallen human hubris your mouth betrays the fact that you do not even understand the difference between what God meant when He said "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (on one hand), and (on the other hand) what Satan meant when he said to Eve "Ye shall not surely die, For Elohiym doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as elohiym, knowing good and evil." (Genesis 1:26-27 & 3:25)

- because you betray the fact that you do not understand what God meant either when He said by the mouth of John, "This is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." (1 John 5:11-12), OR what He meant when He said by the mouth of the same apostle, "We know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2),

because you have repeatedly used the same words to show how you believe Satan when he twists God's words to say that it means that you will be like Him "because you will have eternal life in yourself and possess your immortality" the way He does - by His own life and through the power of His own resurrection from the dead

- and in your hubris you believe that it will be impossible for you - the created human being - to die or to be destroyed (condemned) body and soul by God in gehennah - "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" - though you already are deceived by the one whose lie you even still - like your religious father Adam - believe

- and then in your fallen human hubris you say that "once you are immortal, you cannot die, nor can you be destroyed both body and soul by God", and your reason is "because I live in an incorruptible body that does not decay".

And then you say that Adam did not have the same before the fall because (apparently) "if he did he would not have died":

No, Adam and Eve did not have incorruptible and immortal bodies before they sinned because incorruptible and immortal bodies cannot die.

It matters not to God what you think when in your hubris you show how it is you who clearly does not know how corruption - bringing decay and death - came into the body of the man God had first created, and then breathed eternal life into and then proclaimed, "It is good."

- because you think his body did not begin to decay when he lost the eternal life given to Him in the Word of God who created him "and therefore was not immortal before He sinned".

Yet, Adam and Eve both died. You clearly do not even know what the word incorruptible and immortal mean.

incorrupible (adjective): not subject to death or decay; everlasting.

immortal (adjective): living forever; never dying or decaying.

It matters not to God what you think when in your fallen human hubris your mouth expresses your belief in lies - showing that it is you yourself who clearly does not even know what the words mean when the words are NOT talking about the one who alone has life eternal in Himself and yet, died, and rose again from the dead by His OWN power, and is alive forevermore - alone possessing immortality.

You do not even understand what Paul even meant in 1 Timothy 6:16 because you think that once you have risen from the dead and are alive in an incorruptible body you will be another God (with a higher case G), possessing eternal life in yourself and hence, possessing your immortality the way only Christ does,

- because you say "Once I'm in an incorruptible body I cannot die" or "God cannot destroy me, body and soul, no matter who's religion masquerading as Christianity I believe."

Eve is your religious mother, and Adam your father - because you follow the lie of Satan - the way your father Adam did in the first test mankind faced (whom God had created in the image and likeness of God) - the test which Adam failed.

It is you who does not know the difference between the immortality of the one who alone possesses immortality and eternal life in Himself, and you. In your mind you are going to have become ANOTHER God (with a higher case G).

God will not again prevent anyone who adheres to Satan's deception and turns aside from the Word of God, from eating from the tree of life and continuing to live forever - as in His mercy He did for our first ancestors - instead those who believe Satan when He is released at the close of the thousand years will continue to be alive forever - in gehennah - where Jesus told us "their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:44.

You are trying to make the argument that someone with an incorruptible and immortal body can die, but that blatantly contradicts what the words incorruptible and immortal mean.

I hope for your sake you realize in your hubris that God takes your words seriously - but not in the way you think:

I just can't take you seriously when you deny such simple things as this. I did read the rest of your post as well, but it's pure garbage filled with false accusations and not worth my time to respond to.

 

[Davy]

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not understand who alone possesses life in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26) or ever will ALONE possess life in Himself;

Nor do they know that the eternal life given to them is given alone in the one who alone could say "I am alive forevermore" after rising again from the dead by His own power, and why He alone will always be alive forevermore (Revelation 1:18), possessing immortality (1 Timothy 6:16) after having died and risen from the dead by His own power.

You will never rise again from the dead by your own power - hence you will never possess your immortality the way Paul taught us only only He does - hence you will never live forever by your own power - and the eternal life given in Christ to you, you will never have in yourself, the way He has eternal life in Himself.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not even understand why they are alive now!

Nor do they understand in whom eternal life is given to them, or why being alive forever is dependent upon whether or not they remain in Him

- even when they hear the lie - as their father Adam heard and believed the lie before them.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who speak the way you do.

God is more concerned about those who like you believe that you yourself will be "like the one who alone has (eternal) life in Himself and who alone is alive forever more - by His own life which He possesses in Himself, possessing His immortality, having died and risen again by His own power.

So in your hubris you believe that it will be impossible for you - the created human being - to die or to be destroyed body and soul by God - though you already are deceived by the one whose lie you still - like your religious father Adam - believe

- and then in your fallen human hubris you say that "once you are immortal, you cannot die, nor can you be destroyed both body and soul by God" and your reason is "because I live in an incorruptible body that does not decay".

And then you say that Adam did not "because if he did he would not have died".



It matters not to God what you think when in your hubris you show how it is you who clearly does not know how corruption came into the body of the man God had first created, and then proclaimed, "It is good."



It matters not to God what you think when in your fallen human hubris your mouth expresses your belief in lies - showing that it is you yourself who clearly does not even know what the words mean when the words are NOT talking about the one who alone has life eternal in Himself and yet, died, and rose again from the dead by His OWN power, and is alive forevermore - alone possessing immortality.

You do not even understand what Paul even even meant in 1 Timothy 6:16 because you think that once you have risen from the dead and are alive in an incorruptible body you are another God (with a higher case G)

- because you say "Once I'm in an incorruptible body I cannot die" or "God cannot destroy me body and soul"

Eve is your religious mother, and Adam your father - because you follow the lie of Satan - the way your father Adam did in the first test mankind whom God had created in the image and likeness of God - the test which Adam failed.

It is you who does not know the difference between the immortality of the one who alone possesses immortality and eternal life in Himself, and you. In your mind you are going to have become ANOTHER God (with a higher case G).



I hope for your sake you realize in your hubris that God take your words seriously - but not in the way you think:

 

[Hiddenthings]

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not understand who alone possesses life in Himself (John 1:4; John 5:26) or ever will ALONE possess life in Himself;

Only One is the giver of life, which is why a person must come through the one to whom God gave that life. If Jesus already possessed that life, then we would have the greatest showman in all of history.

@Davy can laugh but he has no answers as his belief is based in the Greatest Showman and not the Real Christ.

Nor do they know that the eternal life given to them is given alone in the one who alone could say "I am alive forevermore" after rising again from the dead by His own power, and why He alone will always be alive forevermore (Revelation 1:18), possessing immortality (1 Timothy 6:16) after having died and risen from the dead by His own power.

You’re right! how could such words hold any meaning if Christ pre-existed and already possessed that LIFE?

You will never rise again from the dead by your own power - hence you will never possess your immortality the way Paul taught us only Christ does - hence you will never live forever by your own power - and the eternal life given in Christ to you, you will never have in yourself, the way He has eternal life in Himself.

There is nothing eternal in us only that which we are clothed with at the resurrection.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who do not even understand why they are alive now!

Nor do they understand in whom eternal life is given to them, or why being alive forever is dependent upon whether or not they remain in Him

- even when they hear the lie - as their father Adam heard and believed the lie before them.

It makes no difference to God because they do not know who the giver of life is, those who speak the way you do.

Jesus became a life-giving Spirit - he was not born one!

@Spiritual Israelite does not understand how Christ became a life-giving Spirit because they do not wish to look in the Power of the Resurrection from the dead.

Because they believe Christ is God and that he did not cease to exist in death, they cling to falsehoods. These lies will continually deprive them of the true power of the victory that Paul taught.

1 Corinthians 15:57: "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Zao - its the "through" part they do not understand.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Lord Jesus having defeated the devil at the cross says nothing...

Take me to Hebrews 2 and explain what devil was defeated. I believe you’d be in for a shock if you truly opened your eyes to the apostles' teaching.

 

[Zao is life]

Only One is the giver of life, which is why a person must come through the one to whom God gave that life. If Jesus already possessed that life, then we would have the greatest showman in all of history.

@Hiddenthings I had to edit parts of my reply to you to make it clearer to you. So let's start over:

You follow the lies of Satan too and do not know what you are talking about.

Nothing would exist if God did not exist.

* The One God who exists is the source of all existence.
* The One God who has life [zoe] in Himself is the source of all life.
* The One God who is alive [zao] is the God of those who are alive [zao].

Only God possesses life IN HIMSELF - and from eternity to eternity this life is IN THE WORD:

"In Him (the Word of God) was life [zoe], and the life was the light of men." (John 1:4).

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. -- Colossinas 1:17.

The Word has existed with God from eternity because He is the Logos of God in whom is life - and "By the word of The LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (Hebrew: ruach, i.e Spirit) of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

"And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth." -- John 1:14

John 5:26 is talking about God giving a man named Jesus Christ to have eternal life in Himself (in THE MAN Jesus) - because He is the Son of God who is the Word of God who took on human flesh and eternal life existed in Him (in the Word of God) before He took on human flesh and became a man.

The Lord Jesus Christ is referring to the Man, Jesus Christ - the Word of God who became flesh, who took on human flesh - He came down from God and when He had risen, He ascended back to God. No one has ascended to heaven except the Word of God who already existed in heaven and came down from heaven.

THE LIVING [ZAO] GOD - who is THE FATHER - who has and possesses life [zoe] in Himself (in the Word of God) - created all things by and through HIS WORD and omnipresent SPIRIT who is THE BREATH OF LIFE [ZOE] FROM GOD - and the breath of life from God is IN THE WORD OF GOD.

God is one - The Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit.

Just because in your finite human mind you do not understand it, does not mean that you have the right to make it fit the understanding that the limitations of your human brain can comprehend.

It is only by the Spirit of God who speaks by His Word that you can understand it. But understand this: The identity of the man Jesus Christ is derived from who He is and has been from eternity - He had no human father. You do not understand why He said "How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?" (Luke 2:46).

You have no right to insult God in a mockery and you WILL answer to Christ for every idle word you speak against Him:

@Davy can laugh but he has no answers as his belief is based in the Greatest Showman and not the Real Christ.

@Davy can laugh at me but he cannot laugh at God - and though he laugh at the truth of the things I said, just like you, he cannot change truth through his mocking. A lot of people float around in these forums full of hubris and confidence in their faith in things that are not true. It's just the way it is. Rather that @Davy and @Spiritual Israelite and others laugh at and mock another human being - at least they are not mocking God - which is what you do in your own hubris when you mock scripture by mocking some of the things they say when they are speaking the truth and you are talking from a twisting of scripture.

You’re right! how could such words hold any meaning if Christ pre-existed and already possessed that LIFE?

The life that has always existed in God has always existed in the Word of God which you reject and mock, and that Word of God became (took on) human flesh.

There is nothing eternal in us only that which we are clothed with at the resurrection.

I agree - but only regarding being alive in the body - not regarding the eternal life in Christ which God has given to us in Christ.

Unlike Jesus who IS the resurrection AND the LIFE, there can be nothing eternal in us in and of ourselves - only that which we are given IN CHRIST now, and will be clothed with at the resurrection. He IS our life.

And I've quoted Jesus and Paul's words above yet again.

Jesus became a life-giving Spirit - he was not born one!

Jesus - the human - became a life-giving Spirit because the life that God possesses in Himself from eternity is IN the Word from eternity - and the words Jesus spoke to us are Spirit and are life

Jesus is the Word who BECAME flesh - and yet you say that Jesus was not born with the life-giving Spirit in Himself?

He who BECAME flesh BECAME a quickening Spirit through His death for us and RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD.

You show over and over that you do not understand the things you talk about.

You do not know what you are talking about.

@Spiritual Israelite does not understand how Christ became a life-giving Spirit because they do not wish to look in the Power of the Resurrection from the dead.

He understands - it's you who does not understand the connection of the death and resurrection of Christ with the quickening of the dead.

You do not understand because you do not believe that He is the life of God - the very words He spoke were Spirit and life - but it was necessary for us that He die and rise again so that we can be given eternal life [zoe aionios] in Him and be made alive [zao] again (quickened from the dead) through His resurrection.

Because they believe Christ is God and that he did not cease to exist in death, they cling to falsehoods.

The man Jesus Christ was body, soul and Spirit. Old Testament and New Testament SCRIPTURE tells you that His body went to the tomb, His SOUL went to hades - where BY THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN HIM He preached to spirits who were in prison in hades - and by THE SAME SPIRIT OF LIFE IN HIM His dead body was quickended (made alive again) and raised from the dead - so that when He appeared to John in the Revelation He could say:

"Fear not; I am the first and the last:
I am he that is alive / that liveth [zao],
and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the ages of the ages, Amen;
and I have the keys of hades and of death."
(Revelation 1:17-18)​

You do not believe in the Word of God and you prove that you cannot hear the words of God which are the only source of eternal life and you truly need to repent (change your mind and turn around) because if you cannot hear the words of God and do not believe in the Word of God but keep twisting it the way you have and do, then your soul is in eternal danger.

These lies will continually deprive them of the true power of the victory that Paul taught.

You do not know what you are talking about and you do not know them the way Jesus knows them. Therefore you do not know that they are saved by Christ through their faith in the Word of God who is in Christ, who is the Son of God, in whom is eternal life.

It is you who believes the lies that has been, and will continue to deprive you of the true power of the victory that Paul taught.

They only prove that they are full of hubris produced by their human pride which makes them believe they understand what it means for created humans and their descendants to be immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:57: "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Zao - its the "through" part they do not understand.

Your words are words of judgment that return upon your own head because again it is you who does not understand why it is through our Lord Jesus Christ that we are given the victory over sin and death

- but they DO understand why - they just do not fully understand what immortality is because they do not fully grasp the difference between eternal life - which is given IN CHRIST to us - and being alive forever. They do not understand that the former has nothing to do with the word "immortality" because the word "immortality" only refers to the latter

- and some, like @Spiritual Israelite seem to think that a body that does not decay and die, cannot begin to decay and die when it loses the eternal life that is the source of it (as happened to Adam), nor do they believe that if a body is immortal following the return of Christ, God can nevertheless still condemn both body and soul to gehennah "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched".

 

[Davy]

@Davy can laugh at me but he cannot laugh at God - and though he laugh at the truth of the things I said, just like you, he cannot change truth through his mocking. A lot of people float around in these forums full of hubris and confidence in their faith in things that are not true. It's just the way it is. Rather that @Davy and @Spiritual Israelite and others laugh at and mock another human being - at least they are not mocking God - which is what you do in your own hubris when you mock scripture by mocking some of the things they say when they are speaking the truth and you are talking from a twisting of scripture.

I definitely am NOT... mocking GOD nor His Word, but I DECLARE GOD'S WORD as written. But what you are doing is making up MEN'S PHILOSOPHY using, or actually abusing... God's written Word, and that... is what I mock!

Just the following first verse of John 1 is enough to 'know'... that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh, and not some philosophical idea that The Word has to mean something else.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
KJV

John declares in that John 1 Chapter that JESUS CHRIST is that "Word". Simple, easy to understand, and no believer on Christ needs a bunch of men's malarkey philosophy made up from pick'n'choosing short phrases out of The Bible.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Hiddenthings I had to edit parts of my reply to you to make it clearer to you. So let's start over:

You follow the lies of Satan too and do not know what you are talking about.

There is no need for such unnecessary commentary, and it seems you have misconceptions regarding the true nature of the adversary, which highlights further room for learning.

Nothing would exist if God did not exist.

True

* The One God who exists is the source of all existence.
* The One God who has life [zoe] in Himself is the source of all life.
* The One God who is alive [zao] is the God of those who are alive [zao].

Correct

Only God possesses life IN HIMSELF - and from eternity to eternity this life is IN THE WORD:

Correct - The Word is His Divine Expression alone!

"In Him (the Word of God) was life [zoe], and the life was the light of men." (John 1:4).

Correct

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. -- Colossinas 1:17.

Including Christ who became the New Spiritual Creation.

The Word has existed with God from eternity because He is the Logos of God in whom is life - and "By the word of The LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (Hebrew: ruach, i.e Spirit) of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).

Agree

"And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth." -- John 1:14

Good, So Yahweh's Divine Expression "became" Christ the man. This happened when God raised His Son from the Grave and bestowed on him LIFE!

Which is what you go on to prove!

John 5:26 is talking about God giving a man named Jesus Christ to have eternal life in Himself (in THE MAN Jesus) - because He is the Son of God who is the Word of God who took on human flesh and eternal life existed in Him (in the Word of God) before He took on human flesh and became a man.

Agree

Christ is the first man to receive Life from God and its on this basis that Life can be given to others i.e Saints

The Lord Jesus Christ is referring to the Man, Jesus Christ - the Word of God who became flesh, who took on human flesh - He came down from God and when He had risen, He ascended back to God. No one has ascended to heaven except the Word of God who already existed in heaven and came down from heaven.

Yahweh's Word came down and caused conception in Mary and Christ was born of a woman in the fallen line of Adam.

Just because in your finite human mind you do not understand it, does not mean that you have the right to make it fit the understanding that the limitations of your human brain can comprehend.

You are very close to the truth, Zao, but you have not yet grasped the New Creation or the Eternal Life that God granted His Son. Until you recognize that Christ did not inherently possess this LIFE, the Lord Jesus becomes like us in nature, and He is revealed as the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

The Word became flesh, not in a duality of natures, but by taking on a single mortal nature, subject to death, and being clothed with eternal life upon his resurrection.

This is why the Holy Spirit declared him (Jesus) to be the Son of God with power BY the resurrection from the dead.

You can explain to me the distinction between Christ—the last Adam, the seed of David according to the flesh, and Christ who became a life-giving Spirit.

I can and I have...but you reject the Apostles teaching.

The life that has always existed in God has always existed in the Word of God which you reject and mock, and that Word of God became (took on) human flesh.

This is what you want to prove but you can't - we both know it - the Apostles understood Jesus nature as being precisely exactly in every respect like yours.

This you deny!

I agree - but only regarding being alive in the body - not regarding the eternal life in Christ which God has given to us in Christ.

Do you see your error?

If you say Christ did not die, it shows you do not truly believe that death is real.

This is a dangerous delusion, for it distorts every holy text concerning the cessation of life and corrupts its meaning.

Here is a summary of your error:

1. Christ inherently possessed eternal life

You cannot show that Jesus possessed eternal life in himself before God granted it. If Jesus already had it, then life could not have been given. Your current view of Christ places you in a theological paradox from which you cannot escape.

2. Dual nature claim - You cannot show that God became flesh in a duality of natures; rather, Scripture points to Christ being born of a woman and being is a single mortal nature.

3. Death denial – You cannot prove that Christ did not truly die; claiming otherwise misrepresents the reality of death.

Hope that helps.

 

[Hiddenthings]

I definitely am NOT... mocking GOD nor His Word, but I DECLARE GOD'S WORD as written. But what you are doing is making up MEN'S PHILOSOPHY using, or actually abusing... God's written Word, and that... is what I mock!

Just the following first verse of John 1 is enough to 'know'... that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh, and not some philosophical idea that The Word has to mean something else.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
KJV

John declares in that John 1 Chapter that JESUS CHRIST is that "Word". Simple, easy to understand, and no believer on Christ needs a bunch of men's malarkey philosophy made up from pick'n'choosing short phrases out of The Bible.

And that Word became…

You seem uninterested in the why or how. When Paul refers to your god as the last Adam, you do not grasp what that truly means, nor do you understand how Christ became a life-giving Spirit, the Word.

If you did you would not be so willing to show your ignorance as you do above.

 

[Davy]

What you are doing is making up MEN'S PHILOSOPHY using, or actually abusing... God's written Word.

The first verse of John 1 is enough to know that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh, and not some philosophical idea that The Word has to mean something else. He is the Word of God and the Word of God is God. It does not mean anything else.

John 1:4 tells us that eternal life is in Him.

You need to learn to quote properly. All those statements above in red are MY statements in my previous post, to you.

 

[Zao is life]

Christ is the first man to receive Life from God and its on this basis that Life can be given to others i.e Saints.

Yahweh's Word came down and caused conception in Mary and Christ was born of a woman in the fallen line of Adam.

Go ahead and on with this because you keep showing that you have no knowledge or understanding of what you are talking about because you keep twisting scripture - which is the Word of God.

There is no human being to whom it has ever been given to possess eternal life in Himself except Jesus, the Son of God, and no human being except Jesus, the Son of God, can or will ever possess eternal life in Himself.

1. The gospels tell us - It was not the Word of God who caused the conception in Mary, it was the Holy Spirit who caused the Word of God to be conceived as a human being in Mary. Jesus is not the Spirit of God who became flesh. He is the Word of God who became flesh and the life in Him is the Spirit of God - that is why it has been given by the Father to one human being alone to possess eternal life IN HIMSELF.

2. If Christ was "born in the fallen line of Adam" then a descendant from the fallen line of Adam would have been his father - He would not have been conceived of the Holy Spirit of God and He would not be the only begotten [monogenes] Son of God.

You are very close to the truth, Zao

You are very far from the truth, Hiddenthings. Your doctrine is not of God but the doctrines of His adversary, Satan.

but you have not yet grasped the New Creation or the Eternal Life that God granted His Son. Until you recognize that Christ did not inherently possess this LIFE, the Lord Jesus becomes like us in nature, and He is revealed as the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

You are unable to grasp and believe the fact that the only HUMAN BEING who has ever been given - or will ever be given - eternal life [ZOE AIONIOS] IN HIMSELF, is Jesus, the Son of God.

Eternal life was granted to mankind IN CHRIST ALONE because the Spirit of LIFE IN HIM is the very Spirit of God - and the life that is IN HIM is eternal life.

If you do not have the Spirit of Christ in you, you have no eternal life because the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. -- 1 John 5:11-12

Those who have "fallen asleep" is referring to those who have died BODILY. To be alive [zao] forever is to be immortal.

There can be no living or being alive [zao] without the breath (Spirit) of life from God, and no one can be alive [zao] forever (immortal) without the eternal life [zoe aionios] of Christ the Man remaining in Him.

Till now the Man Jesus Christ is the only human being who has risen bodily from the dead and is alive [zao] to the ages of the ages (forevermore)

- and when He died His SPIRIT did not die. His body died and was laid in a tomb. His soul went to hades, where by His Spirit - which He had given up to God the Father - He preached to the spirits imprisoned in hades.

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

You are very boastful in asserting your own "knowledge and understanding" of these things - but you prove your ignorance over and over because your knowledge and understanding is neither biblical, nor true:

The Word became flesh, not in a duality of natures, but by taking on a single mortal nature, subject to death, and being clothed with eternal life upon his resurrection.

How could He have "become" "clothed with eternal life" when He had eternal life in Himself BEFORE He died?

It is the seed (descendants) of those created human beings who believe in Him and know who He is - and do not twist the Word of God (the way you do) - who will be found to be clothed with HIS eternal life upon our physical death.

I've done with answering you from now on - because you clearly have chosen your religion based on the religious lies that came not from the Holy Spirit or the Word of God - i.e your religious ideas are not the Word of God. You just keep adding lie upon lie upon lie.

You can explain to me the distinction between Christ—the last Adam, the seed of David according to the flesh, and Christ who became a life-giving Spirit.

I can and I have...but you reject the Apostles teaching.

I can explain the difference, and I have - but it is you who rejects the apostles' teaching.

This is why the Holy Spirit declared him (Jesus) to be the Son of God with power BY the resurrection from the dead.

G1834 exegeomai declared, made known, revealed
from 1537 and 2233; to consider out (aloud), i.e. rehearse, unfold:--declare, tell.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [G1834 exegeomai] him." John 1:18.

G3724 horizo: appointed, ordained:
from 3725; to mark out or bound ("horizon"), i.e. (figuratively) to appoint, decree, specify:--declare, determine, limit, ordain.

"This man, who was handed over by the predetermined [G3724 horizo] plan and foreknowledge of God, you executed by nailing him to a cross at the hands of Gentiles." -- Acts 2:3).

"And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined [G3724 horizo]: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!" -- Luke 22:22.

"You know that from your empty way of life inherited from your ancestors you were ransomed - not by perishable things like silver or gold, but by precious blood like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb, namely Christ. He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was manifested in these last times for your sake. Through him you now trust in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God." -- 1 Peter 1:18-21.

So in the time appointed by God He sent the one appointed by Him before the foundation of the world:

"Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of (became - G1096 ginomai] the seed of David according to the flesh; And (o' Horizo - the declaration or ordaining) to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead." -- Romans 1:4.

Paul is telling us that Jesus Christ is the one who had been promised by God - and you twist his teaching to mean that Jesus was only appointed by God when He rose from the dead.

Your mind can only be filthy - because that comes from a heart that makes God sinful flesh just because He appeared as sinful flesh - that is why you say things like this:

This is what you want to prove but you can't - we both know it - the Apostles understood Jesus nature as being precisely exactly in every respect like yours.

It's a total lie about what the apostles taught and I'm done with talking to you about any of this, because you are a heretic and a blasphemer

- and Matthew 7:6 is what Jesus told us to do with heretics - because your ears are only capable of feeding off your own false religious twisting of God's revelation of Himself - and your choice of wording is evidence of the fact that you not only believe the lies of the devil - you love it to be so.

 

[Zao is life]

You need to learn to quote properly. All those statements above in red are MY statements in my previous post, to you.

You need to learn to read properly . All those statements in red were my statements - even in this thread - before they were your statements. I just quote better from scripture than you do.

But they are neither your statements nor my statements. They are the statements of scripture.

 

[Davy]

You need to learn to read properly . All those statements in red were my statements - even in this thread - before they were your statements. I just quote better from scripture than you do.

But they are neither your statements nor my statements. They are the statements of scripture.

You are telling a LIE.


MY statements from my post#292 above, which you quoted verbatim and tried to pass off as your own:

​

"I definitely am NOT... mocking GOD nor His Word, but I DECLARE GOD'S WORD as written. But what you are doing is making up MEN'S PHILOSOPHY using, or actually abusing... God's written Word, and that... is what I mock!​

​

​

Just the following first verse of John 1 is enough to 'know'... that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh, and not some philosophical idea that The Word has to mean something else."​

 

[Zao is life]

You are telling a LIE.


MY statements from my post#292 above, which you quoted verbatim and tried to pass off as your own:

​

"I definitely am NOT... mocking GOD nor His Word, but I DECLARE GOD'S WORD as written. But what you are doing is making up MEN'S PHILOSOPHY using, or actually abusing... God's written Word, and that... is what I mock!​

​

​

Just the following first verse of John 1 is enough to 'know'... that Jesus of Nazareth is God come in the flesh, and not some philosophical idea that The Word has to mean something else."​

Talking about lying ..

1. You falsely asserted that I had said something different to what you said when you spoke to me, though I had said exactly the same things using different wording, and quoting a lot more scripture than you.

2. Therefore to make you feel better (because you are clearly disturbed by this), I said exactly what I had said again - but this time, in order to pacify you, using your own wording instead of mine.

If you weren't lying about what I said you wouldn't be showing such embarrassment and disturbance by all this now.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Now, here's one post of yours that I can agree with. I wonder if he even understood what he said? What a bunch of gibberish. LOL.