1 Corinthians 13:13 Faith, Hope and Love

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Lambano

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Why would we need faith and hope in heaven?

Or do we??

If I understand faith and hope correctly, it seems to me that they will not be needed in heaven
since we will see God face to face.
A couple of thoughts on that:

I learned a while ago that "Faith" is, for practical purposes, synonymous with "Trust", and in the Christian sense, trust in the Person of God and trust in the Person of Jesus Christ. I would take the position that our trust will indeed be eternal. "Faith" also carries shades of "faithfulness" or loyalty. I contend that our loyalty will be eternal also.

"Hope" is an interesting question. Why do we get up in the morning? What keeps us keeping on? Eternity is a long time; what will sustain us day after day, century after century, eon after eon? I hope (pun intended) God will continuously have new and challenging things for us.
 
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GodsGrace

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A couple of thoughts on that:

I learned a while ago that "Faith" is, for practical purposes, synonymous with "Trust", and in the Christian sense, trust in the Person of God and trust in the Person of Jesus Christ. I would take the position that our trust will indeed be eternal. "Faith" also carries shades of "faithfulness" or loyalty. I contend that our loyalty will be eternal also.

"Hope" is an interesting question. Why do we get up in the morning? What keeps us keeping on? Eternity is a long time; what will sustain us day after day, century after century, eon after eon? I hope (pun intended) God will continuously have new and challenging things for us.
I believe it would depend on what we mean by faith.
It does include trust.

But is that what Hebrews means?
Faith is the essence of things hoped for,,,

Hebrews 11:1-3
1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.
2 For by it the people of old[a] received God’s commendation.[b]
3 By faith we understand that the worlds[c] were set in order at God’s command,[d] so that the visible has its origin in the invisible.


Faith makes us be sure of what we hope for.
What do we hope for?
Isn't it God's promise of heaven at the end of our lives??

Faith makes us be convinced of things not seen.
I get on an elevator in faith that it will take me to the top floor.
When I'm at the top floor,,,
do I still need faith?

Trust, I think, would be an ELEMENT of faith.
If we have faith in someone, we will trust that person.

Yes,,,,definitely this trust will continue forever.
But does faith mean only trust?

Hope, biblically speaking, is the hope we have of achieving our salvation,,,our glorification.
Once achieved,,,do we still need hope of achieving it?

IOW,,,I THINK you might be applyiing the common understanding of hope and not the biblical undersanding.
And I think that biblically faith is more than trust in a person but in an entire belief system that will no longer be necessary in heaven.

I looked up some definitions on the net...I think the following is correct:


Biblically, faith is considered a belief and trust in God based on good evidence but without total proof. To have faith, we must trust that God is there and working on our behalf, even though we can't see him. In fact, the word “faith” comes from the Latin word “fidere,” which means “to trust.”

(forgot to get the source..sorry).



QotQuestions includes your definition:

Faith resides at the core of Christianity and the Christian life. While the Bible has much to say about it, faith is a challenging concept to define. A biblical definition of faith reaches beyond mere belief—the simple acknowledgment that God exists—into the realm of trust. Genuine faith involves abandoning all human reliance on self-efforts and placing total dependence upon God’s character, His actions, and His promises, as revealed in His Word.
 

Lambano

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Faith makes us be sure of what we hope for.
What do we hope for?
Isn't it God's promise of heaven at the end of our lives??
Very perceptive pointing out the interaction between faith and hope.

Once you get to Heaven, then what?
 

GodsGrace

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Very perceptive pointing out the interaction between faith and hope.

Once you get to Heaven, then what?
What do you mean?
Will we still be posting on Christianityboard.com??!!

I believe we will have our pretrnatural gifts again:
INFUSED KNOWLEDGE
ABSENCE OF SIN NATURE
IMMORTALITY

Who can know?
Paul said it was beyond words.
I just know that if God is in a place...
it'll be wonderful.

You?
 

GodsGrace

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Could you clarify: Is "faith" just trust in an entire belief system?
You said that our trust in God will continue on.
And I agree fully....

What I mean is that faith is MORE than just trusting.
Trusting is a PART of faith.

So we wil always trust God.....the part of faith that will last forever.

But the overall umbrella of faith will no longer be necessary because we will be in heaven.
Our faith, as the umbrella system, will be complete and no longer necessary.

Faith means there is no proof of what we believe in.
That's why it's called faith.

I have faith the elevator will bring me to the top floor...
but I have no proof that it actually will.

Once I'm at the destination...
faith will no longer be necessary.
The proof is that I made it to the destination.
 

Lambano

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Who can know?
Paul said it was beyond words.
I just know that if God is in a place...
it'll be wonderful.

You?
I can tell that you have faith that you will still have reason to continue on into immortality, even if you're not articulating it.
 

GodsGrace

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I can tell that you have faith that you will still have reason to continue on into immortality, even if you're not articulating it.
Who can articulate everything about heaven?
I don't have a dogmatic belief on this.
If you have anything to add,,,it would be welcomed.
 

Lambano

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BTW, an invisible conversation partner here is a guy who once said that eternal life must get boring after awhile. With nothing to hope for, even Heaven will become Hell.
 
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GodsGrace

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And I'm saying that faith is more than an umbrella belief system. And when the umbrella belief system passes away, what's left?
There's a miscommunicaiton here.
I'll stop here.

Just to repeat:
FAITH is the UMBRELLA.
TRUST is something under that umbrella.
 

GodsGrace

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BTW, an invisible conversation partner here is a guy who once said that eternal life must get boring after awhile. With nothing to hope for, even Heaven will become Hell.
Maybe you let the invisible guy affect you too much.

If he things heaven will be boring...
he could look for a better place.
 
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Lambano

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I believe we will have our pretrnatural gifts again:
INFUSED KNOWLEDGE
ABSENCE OF SIN NATURE
IMMORTALITY

Who can know?
Paul said it was beyond words.
I just know that if God is in a place...
it'll be wonderful.

You?
I think the simplest way to put it is that when the hopes we have now become fully realized, there will be new hopes. And when our beliefs about God now have become a more precise knowledge of God (see verses 8-12), there will still be a need to practice faith (trust) while we get to know God more deeply and wait on those new hopes. I think that's what Paul had in mind when he said faith, hope, and love abide forever. Does that make sense?
 
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Lambano

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GodsGrace

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Okay. What aspects of faith would you include under that umbrella?
It's really asking: What is faith?

It's not an intellectual concept.
biblical faith means to believe more than just that God exists....

However, I would place that belief under the faith umbrella because of

Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.


BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS (it is by faith since we have no imperical proof)
TRUST as we've already established
BELIEVING IN GOD what His word says,,,what His teachings are
BELIEVING HIS PROMISES might be the same as above - I'm thinking more in terms of salvaton/soteriology
GOD WILL PROPERLY LEAD US THROUGH LIFE proverbs 3:5-6
BEING A DISCIPLE if we have faith we will follow


That's all I can think of.
There's probably more.

I don't think I need to tell you that in the original language of the NT...
believe means much more than just believing that God exists.
 
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GodsGrace

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I think the simplest way to put it is that when the hopes we have now become fully realized, there will be new hopes. And when our beliefs about God now have become a more precise knowledge of God (see verses 8-12), there will still be a need to practice faith (trust) while we get to know God more deeply and wait on those new hopes. I think that's what Paul had in mind when he said faith, hope, and love abide forever. Does that make sense?
Sure it makes sense.
Hope keeps us going...
It's a good thing.
In heaven all good things will be present.
 
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Lambano

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BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS (it is by faith since we have no imperical proof)
TRUST as we've already established
BELIEVING IN GOD what His word says,,,what His teachings are
BELIEVING HIS PROMISES might be the same as above - I'm thinking more in terms of salvaton/soteriology
GOD WILL PROPERLY LEAD US THROUGH LIFE proverbs 3:5-6
BEING A DISCIPLE if we have faith we will follow

Did you notice that everything you named will still be applicable in the World to Come? (Though BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS will become a belief justified by direct observation.) And that the others all involve TRUST in a person or persons, such as trust in God, Jesus, the biblical writers, the church fathers, any influential teachers....?
 
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