The sons of God

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Spiritual Israelite

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Please don't attempt to understand what I believe based on what SI has to say, his replies are deceitful at worse and at least confused.
No, they are not. This comment here is deceitful. I only go by what you actually say. If you are not saying what you actually believe, that's not my fault.

I agree with much of what TS believes about who/what Satan is
He says that Satan is not a created spirit being who is a separate being from human beings and instead represents the spirit of man. Do you agree with that or not? And don't tell me he doesn't believe that. He clearly does and has said so many times.

because I agree that since the fall of mankind in the garden, Satan is the spirit within fallen mankind.
There it is. When did you change your mind about this? You agreed with me not long ago that Satan is a created spirit being. You didn't contend with that and only contended with the belief that he is a fallen angel. You clearly have been influenced by TS to change your mind about this. In Job we see a description of Satan talking to God about Job. You think the spirit within fallen mankind was talking to God about Job? There is also a description of Satan tempting Jesus in the desert. You think the spirit within fallen mankind was tempting Jesus in the desert? There is also a description of Satan and his angels being cast out of heaven. You think the spirit within fallen mankind was cast out of heaven? In Revelation 20:10 it talks about Satan being cast into the lake of fire. You think that's talking about the spirit within fallen mankind being cast into the lake of fire? If so, then what is Revelation 20:15 referring to? You have fallen mankind being cast into the lake of fire twice.

Just as the Holy Spirit is within the believers.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Are you saying you think Satan is a name given to the spirit of each unbeliever or do you think a spirit being named Satan somehow dwells within each unbeliever?

A&E were not created with Satan within them. Being created in the likeness and image of God they were made alive through the Spirit of God in them. But once they disobeyed God, they became the spirit of Satan.
Where do you get this from? So, you are saying you think that Satan did not exist until Adam and Eve sinned?

Because there is no unity between the spirit of darkness, and the Spirit of light. At the moment A&E sinned against God, the Spirit of God departed from them, and from that moment, they and the whole human race became the same nature that is the spirit of Satan. We find an example of this truth when the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him.

Genesis 2:7 (KJV) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, [flesh] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; [Spirit] and man became a living soul. [complete human with body + Spirit of God = living souls]

1 Samuel 16:14-15 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
That was not Saul's spirit, that was a separate evil spirit being.

This is why I asked about the reason for God creating darkness and evil. Remember A&E were created without knowing good or evil. Since they had no knowledge of evil when they were created, I don't believe the act of sinning by man came from within, but that it came from deception without by the spirit that came from the darkness.
The spirit that came from the darkness? Where does scripture ever speak of that? Is that spirit what you call Satan? Do you see it as an actual spirit being? Explain what you're talking about.

Darkness that was not natural because it was in the beginning before God created natural light of the sun, moon, and stars on day four.

Since God tells us He did create darkness as well as light, and everything that God created in heaven and the earth were created in six days, God did create darkness before the foundation of the world.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Colossians 1:16-17 (KJV) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Why did God create darkness before He created the heaven and the earth and everything in them?
Because He wanted to create days that were divided into light (the day) and darkness (the night). Do you acknowledge that each of the six days of creation were literal days?

I believe God created the darkness, which is a metaphor for evil that would be part of creation that mankind may come to understand both evil that leads to death, and the goodness of God that leads to eternal life they were created without any knowledge of.

This understanding is far closer to the doctrine of TS because he is not chained to a doctrine that cannot have God being the creator of evil
If you read what he has said about this, then you should see that he does not believe that God created evil in the way you think He did.

or the doctrine of Satan being created an angel of God who became Satan through sin. I would rather be aligned with one who believes that sinfulness is the product of fallen man's heart, because it truly is since the fall, then to agree with someone locked in mythology, who cannot accept the plain language of the Bible telling us God created darkness and evil, that as you've pointed out may have originated from the book of Enoch.
Why do you feel the need to be aligned with TS? He denies that the existence of spirit beings called angels. Last I checked, you believed in the existence of spirit beings called angels. Have you changed your mind or do you still believe that? And, last I checked, you believed in the existence of spirit beings called demons or devils. Do you still believe that? He doesn't.
 

WPM

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"Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
"Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge?
(Job 38:1-2).

The wisdom of God is a characteristic of the Word (Logos) of God. In Proverbs 8:22-31 Solomon personifies the wisdom of God, saying,

Proverbs 8
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.


The Word of God (Son of God) was present when God created the heavens and the earth - which were created through Him - and he was rejoicing in it.

In Job 38, God asks Job,

Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
2 "Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? *

*
There is one morning star - and Jesus refers to Himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16.
* The words "morning stars" are in the singular in the text - "morning star".
* The word "sons" is in the singular in the text (but this is the case even when elsewhere the word is referring to sons, plural).
- but there is only one morning star.

Job 1:6-7

In Job 1:6 Satan came among the sons of God who had come to present themselves before the LORD - and in the very next verse when God asked Satan where he came from, Satan says "From going to and fro - in the earth - and from walking up and down in it."

Then God asks Satan if he has considered God's servant Job - because there was none like him - in the earth -

In the context Job was among the sons of God who had come to present themselves to God - in the earth - the way God much later commanded Israel to do three times a year in the laws of Moses, and 'the accuser of the brethren' (Revelation 12:10) came among them.

Many take the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 (quoted below) to be referring to the line of Seth and his descendants, and the daughters of men to the line of Cain and his descendants.

Those who disagree will often cite:

- The book of Enoch (considered spurious by Orthodox standards in both Judaism and Christianity - for a number of valid reasons);
- 2 Peter 2:4-5;
- Jude 1:6;
- Genesis 6:1-4;
- Job 38:4-7; and
- Job 1:6 - ignoring the context of Job 1:6.

Genesis 6

1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

It's questionable whether or not angels - whom scripture tells us are spirit beings - had the human DNA and ability necessary to procreate with human women - whether fallen angels or not.

"Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind:
"Who is this who darkens counsel with words without knowledge? (Job 38:1-2).

If we err, we should rather err on the side of caution, not - through drama in the human imagination produced by books such as the book of Enoch - inserting meaning into scripture that the texts do not plainly contain.

It's only by drama in the human imagination produced by things that are not written in the Bible but in spurious extra-biblical books such as the book of Enoch that we can insert an allusion to "angels impregnating human women" into 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6.

"Angels also, those who did not keep their own principality, but left their proper dwelling, under darkness God has kept in chains everlasting, unto the judgment of the great day." (Jude 1:6)

"For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but threw them into tartaroo (the deepest pit in hades) and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment." (2 Peter 2:4).

When comparing scripture with scripture there is not enough evidence that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6:2 & 4; Job 1:6; and Job 38:4-7 were not humans, and there is NO evidence that Peter and Jude were alluding to a time when "fallen angels impregnated human women" - because such an allusion is simply not in the text of 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6.

It is only of the sons of God that it is written that God said,

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (Genesis 1:26).

Why are people so intrigued by this? Who cares! Focus on something important. Not only that, but you are wrong. Demons are spirits.
 

WPM

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Since the fall fallen mankind doesn't need an evil spirit whispering in their ears. Because the evil within fallen man comes from within their own hearts and minds, that from the fall became the same spirit of evil called Satan. I believe it was only A&E, the only two natural people upon this earth created innocent, without knowledge of good or evil that were deceived from without (hath God really said) by the spirit (serpent) that came from the darkness created by God.
So who is Satan?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Oh, I see — so the only two options in your mind are either a Cheshire snake hanging from a branch having a theology debate, or Adam and Eve standing there moving their lips like ventriloquists?

Say have you ever argued with yourself in your own head? Ever felt temptation rise before you acted on it — stealing something, lusting, doing what you know is wrong? There wasn’t a reptile whispering in your ear. The battle happened internally. That was your own spirit talking.

That’s the point.
You apparently just like to hear yourself talk (or, in this case, see yourself type, I guess). You could have just answered "Yes", you do believe that Adam and Eve were just talking to themselves. Which is completely ridiculous and not how it is portrayed in Genesis 3 at all. It does not give the sense at all that Eve told herself that she would not die if she ate of the fruit.

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

You think that God told the serpent, Satan, that He would put enmity between the woman (Eve) and herself and between her seed and...her seed? Clearly, the serpent represent a completely different being from Eve, but you expect us to believe they are one and the same?

Eve didn’t need a talking zoo exhibit. The temptation began as an internal persuasiona reasoning process. The text says she saw, she desired, she considered. That’s inward dialogue.
She was influenced by Satan. She wasn't talking to herself. That's ridiculous. It portrays her as literally talking to someone else, not herself.

That’s how temptation works. It starts in the mind before it manifests in action. That was when the iniquity was found IN her! Not from outside force.

The “serpent” represents the adversarial voice — the spirit of disobedience — not a chestnut-colored pet snake giving a advice from a tree branch. Sin was not something God created inside her; it was a choice formed through entertained desire.
So, you think the spirit of disobedience that is found within fallen man was talking to Jesus and trying to tempt Jesus in the desert? How did that work exactly?

If we’re going to discuss Genesis, let’s move past Sunday school coloring sheet and deal with how temptation actually operates in human nature shall we?
You haven't even graduated to Sunday school yet. You are like a spiritual babe in Christ who can only sip milk and is not ready for solid food. You ignore all of the scriptures which portray Satan as a spirit being separate from human beings who tries to tempt and deceive human beings. He even tried to tempt and deceive Jesus. He is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

You think the spirit of fallen man is as a roaring lion walking about seeking whom he may devour? You think spirit of fallen mankind goes to and fro on the earth, as it talks about in Job in regards to Satan? Nonsense.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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It's because both darkness and evil are used by God to bring about good for mankind who believes in Christ. So even darkness and evil are part of the "very good" creation of God.
You guys are so deceived. It's unbelievable. Yes, every murder and rape and other evil acts bring about good for mankind. No wonder God created evil. It does so much good for mankind. Why do you think that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world if evil is good in your mind? If evil brings about good, then why does God condemn it? Why did Jesus have to die for our sins if our sins bring about good? You are not even thinking here.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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You are as spiritual blind as ever as you cleared have been brainwashed by Sunday School with the doctrine of celestial beings.
LOL! Says the spiritually blind man.

Again, God did NOT create a celestial being, called Lucifer/Satan to be in man. Satan is NOT a created being.
@rwb I see you liked this post. So, you clearly have decided that Satan is not a created being. That is not what you told me before when I asked you that. Why are you allowing this false teacher to influence you like this?

He is a spirit which is the spirit of man. All men!
Nonsense! The spirit of man did not talk to God about Job. The spirit of man did not tempt Jesus in the desert. The spirit of man does not go around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. We don't put on the armor of God to protect against the wiles of the spirit of man, but rather "the wiles of the devil" and "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).

For example:

Mat 16:21-23
  • From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
  • Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
  • But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Did Satan, as a being, got into Peter and speak through Peter's mouth?
No, Satan was there influencing Peter. Hello? Your denial that Satan is an actual spirit being who tries to tempt and deceive people keeps you from understanding this.

Did Christ talk directly to Satan as separate entity inside Peter? No.
Peter was not possessed by Satan, but he was being influenced by Satan. Since you don't believe that the spirit being Satan exists, you can't possibly understand this.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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YOU DON'T KNOW????
What a weak and childish response! Why do you take offense at someone asking you a simple question? Who do you think you're fooling with this response? Was the question too difficult? You are very evasive, which is very telling.

Not long ago you told me that you agreed that Satan is a created spirit being who is separate from human beings. You just disagreed that he used to be an angel of God, which is a different topic. Now, you have decided that Satan is not a created spirit being at all. Is that correct? How about you clarify who or what exactly you believe Satan is at this point since you seem to have changed your mind recently about this.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I gave no commentary regarding evil that God takes credit for creating. Because it is the darkness that is questionable for SI.
SI has no answer for how God creates darkness, which is why he wants to focus on evil. SI believes the darkness and light at the beginning is not the supernatural light and darkness created by God. SI wants us to believe this is natural darkness and light that God would not create until day four.
You first said I have no answer, which is a lie, and then you proceeded to mention the answer I gave about what the darkness and light represent (natural darkness and light). That is an answer regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

You have utterly failed to explain how metaphorical light and darkness could be separated into day and night of the first day. Does that mean you believe the first day of creation was not a literal day of creation but instead a metaphorical day of creation, whatever that would even mean? Please answer the question. You claim that I avoid answering your simple questions, which is another lie, yet I have asked you this question several times now and you haven't answered it. So, how about answering it now so that you don't come across as a hypocrite who accuses others of not answering simple questions?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Since the fall fallen mankind doesn't need an evil spirit whispering in their ears. Because the evil within fallen man comes from within their own hearts and minds, that from the fall became the same spirit of evil called Satan. I believe it was only A&E, the only two natural people upon this earth created innocent, without knowledge of good or evil that were deceived from without (hath God really said) by the spirit (serpent) that came from the darkness created by God.
Who do you think tempted Jesus in the desert? Fallen mankind? Who goes around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour (1 Peter 5:8)? Fallen mankind? Paul said our battle is not against flesh and blood humans, but against "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). What is your understanding of that?

Revelation 20:10 talks about Satan being cast into the lake of fire. If that is talking about fallen mankind being cast into the lake of fire then that would make Revelation 20:15 redundant. How do you explain this?

Do you think the spirit of fallen mankind talked to God about Job? Do you think that was Job's spirit talking to God and telling God he could make Job curse Him?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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LOL! Says the spiritually blind man.


@rwb I see you liked this post. So, you clearly have decided that Satan is not a created being. That is not what you told me before when I asked you that. Why are you allowing this false teacher to influence you like this?


Nonsense! The spirit of man did not talk to God about Job. The spirit of man did not tempt Jesus in the desert. The spirit of man does not go around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour. We don't put on the armor of God to protect against the wiles of the spirit of man, but rather "the wiles of the devil" and "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).


No, Satan was there influencing Peter. Hello? Your denial that Satan is an actual spirit being who tries to tempt and deceive people keeps you from understanding this.


Peter was not possessed by Satan, but he was being influenced by Satan. Since you don't believe that the spirit being Satan exists, you can't possibly understand this.
@TribulationSigns You can only foolishly laugh at this post because you know you have nothing to refute what I'm saying. You have the spirit of fallen man talking to God about Job, and Eve talking to herself, and the spirit of fallen man tempting Jesus in the desert and going about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and being cast into the lake of fire twice (Rev 20:10 and Rev 20:15) and all kinds of nonsense like that. I don't blame you for not actually responding to my post. I can understand you not wanting to make more of a fool of yourself than you already have.
 
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TribulationSigns

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@TribulationSigns You can only foolishly laugh at this post because you know you have nothing to refute what I'm saying.

I do not have to response to every post of yours. I laughed because your post did not get you any closer to the Truth after my testimony. :-)
You have the spirit of fallen man talking to God about Job

You still don't get it.

Like Job, the congregation of old testament "sons of God" presented themselves before the Lord. This is how the congregation does. Just like we do in our New Testament congregation. Satan came among them - he is among the congregaton! Satan works within man who come as wolf in sheep's clothing. He is an adversary spirit.

The problem is you believe that a vile, deadly and lying spirit Satan came into literal holy heaven to have a coffee chat, face to face, with God.
John 8:44
  • "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.."
He was NEVER in the light of God's holy Heaven, never a son of God, never a messenger of truth, and never a top/chief/arch angel in heaven controlling an army of rebellious spirits against God. The light (which God is) cannot dwell with darkness. There is no darkness in heaven, which necessarily means there is no Satan there, as he is the epitome of darkness and the Father of lies "from the beginning."

Revelation 22:5
  • "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."
There was never any night in the place where we will sit with Christ in that heaven, there was never any need for a candle, nor for the light of sun because the Lord God is the light of heaven wherein is no darkness, and always has been. No murderer from the beginning was ever been dwelling there with Him. Even in days of Job!


and Eve talking to herself,

With tempting thoughts, of course.
and the spirit of fallen man tempting Jesus in the desert

I never said that a spirit of fallen man came to meet with Jesus in the desert. Can't you think carefully that Satan is an adversary spirit who have tried Christ for our understanding.
and going about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour

Yes, we see army of professed Christians with spirit of antichrist going as roaring lion for they have spirit of Satan. Your point is?
and being cast into the lake of fire twice (Rev 20:10 and Rev 20:15) and all kinds of nonsense like that.

Twice? No. That’s simply careless reading.


Revelation 20:10 and 20:15 are not describing two separate events. They are describing the same final judgment from two angles. The spirit of Satan is cast into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet already are. The beast represents the body of all unsaved people of the world, and the false prophet represents the body of all professed believers of the congregation, including the false prophets and christs that the verse 15 explains that all of their names are not found in the Book of Life are thrown into that same lake of fire. One judgment. One lake. One final sentence.

There is no “double casting.” That idea only exists if you force the text to contradict itself.

And it’s ironic to accuse others of nonsense while claiming Satan is thrown into the lake of fire twice. That’s not amillennialism — that’s confusion.

Maybe read the passage more carefully before laughing at interpretations you clearly haven’t understood.

I don't blame you for not actually responding to my post.

Delusional :-)

I can understand you not wanting to make more of a fool of yourself than you already have.

Assumption is the mother of all errors. :-) Like I always said, the Lord judges and I am comfortable with it! :-)
 

WPM

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Who do you think tempted Jesus in the desert? Fallen mankind? Who goes around like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour (1 Peter 5:8)? Fallen mankind? Paul said our battle is not against flesh and blood humans, but against "against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12). What is your understanding of that?

Revelation 20:10 talks about Satan being cast into the lake of fire. If that is talking about fallen mankind being cast into the lake of fire then that would make Revelation 20:15 redundant. How do you explain this?

Do you think the spirit of fallen mankind talked to God about Job? Do you think that was Job's spirit talking to God and telling God he could make Job curse Him?
Exactly! Very well put. Talk about promoting nonsense. Fallen man could just soar up into heaven when he wished and communicate with God and then come back down again when he wished. What folly.
 
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Zao is life

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This is why I asked about the reason for God creating darkness and evil.

Since God tells us He did create darkness as well as light, and everything that God created in heaven and the earth were created in six days, God did create darkness before the foundation of the world.

RWB,

You don't understand what God is saying to us.


1.There is no such thing as "non-existence". "Non-existence" is the absence of existence - and God exists.

2. There is no such thing as the color "black". It does not exist. We only "see" the color black because of the light. It's only "created" by the light.

3. There is no such thing as complete darkness. It does not exist. Complete darkness is the absence of light. Tohuw and bohuw.

4. God exists, and God is good. Evil is the absence of good, and good coming upon us is the blessing of God.

5, Evil did not exist before the thought, and the evil thought is not of God, nor created by God.

6.God Himself does not "create" evil. He cannot - because He is only good.

IF THERE WERE NO GOD:

The absence of God = the absence of light = the absence of life = the absence of existence = the absence of good

= non-existence
(not death: dying follows living).

= darkness.


You do not understand what the LORD God who created the heavens and the earth is saying to you, rwb. Evil is the absence of good. The withdrawal of God's blessing (the good) "creates" evil.

You have formed a whole false theology based on erroneous thinking. Adam and Eve did not know (have an intimate knowledge of) evil before they ate of the tree of THE KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, @TribulationSigns

There had to be another creature who had enough wisdom and knowledge to be aware of these things who could draw both Adam and Eve (first Eve and then Adam) away from truth (the Word of God) to believe a lie ("You will NOT surely die")

- and Adam had the greater sin, because he heard the commandment direct from the mouth of God before Eve was created - and he knew that what Satan said implied that God is a liar - but he wanted to be "like God, knowing good and evil."

Evil does not exist before the thought. The thought had to be planted in them. God did not plant it in them. By the words "Hath God INDEED said" Satan implied to Eve that either

(a) Adam had got the words of God confused and didn't know what he was talking about; OR
(b) Adam did know that God had not said it, but ADAM had lied to Eve; OR
(c) (worst accusation) God had lied to Adam.

Eve did not fall for it at first - so the serpent said (c) directly - "You will NOT surely die - but God knows that you will be LIKE God, .." etc

1. Before the fall there was NO knowledge of evil in Adam and Eve for them to have such an evil thought produced from within themselves (i.e that God was a liar); and to add another evil thought to it (i.e that they could be "Like God, knowing good and evil").

The belief that God was a liar, and that they would become "like God, knowing good and evil", and the belief that if they did what God had commanded they do not, they would NOT die,were evil thoughts - and could not have been produced from within themselves all out of their own-some when they were created by God in His image and likeness, and God saw that everything He had made was good.

Human beings could not have had evil thoughts being produced from within themselves all out of their own-some BEFORE they became intimate with the knowledge of both good and evil, @TribulationSigns
 
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Taken

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The sons of God

A son of God…
Collectively sons of God…

Are…distinctly and expressly, applied to that which WAS, IS, REMAINS, BECOMES, “MADE”….. “HOLY”…

Regarding Gods “WORKS”…
Creation IS ONE thing.
Making IS ANOTHER thing.

Angels ARE Spirits….
Angels WERE ALL “Created AND Made HOLY Celestial Heavenly Beings and WITH their own FREEWILL…
According to their OWN FREEWILL…
They EACH could / can decide and choose…
To MAINTAIN, KEEP, their “HOLY” Status…
Or NOT.

Humans- ( manKIND ) ARE Created and Made terrestrial (Earthly) beings … All with Their OWN FREEWILL.
According TO Gods “OFFERING”…and an individual Humans OWN FREEWILL, to decide, choose, TO Accept OR Reject Gods Offering…( to become MADE a son of God by, through, of Adoption)…
Each individual human…IS or IS NOT…ultimately, forever, MADE a son of God, according to Gods “Adoption Offering”.

The primarily Differences ARE…
* Angels Are Created and Made holy…and maintain their holiness by their own “great power”, given them.
(by passing Adam who was Created and Made “Good”…forward to all men)
* Humans Are Created, from a mans Made generational corrupt SEED…
* A humans Offering from God, IS a Rebirth From Gods SEED….
AND… a Highlighted Bonus, Blessing, Special Extraordinary Gift…OF Gods Supreme Power… To:
… not ONLY “gives a WILLING individual human His Gift”…
…. But, but, but, BY “HIS SUPREME POWER…”
God Himself Maintains, Keeps, Guarantees…that Gift GIVEN a man being “IS MADE a holy son of God”…IS FOREVER….Eternity.


Praise and Glory to God,
How Great Thou art.

Taken
 

rwb

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There is no such thing as the color "black". It does not exist. We only "see" the color black because of the light. It's only "created" by the light.

I didn't say "black"! Because darkness is what existed not the color black that God instead of abolishing, merely SPOKE His Light into the darkness dividing the darkness (not black) from His Light.

Black is defined a specific color, but darkness is defined from black: figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness:—dark(-ness), night, obscurity.

God did not abolish the darkness because the evil from the darkness God would use to bring about the greatest good for the sons of God.
Complete darkness is the absence of light. Tohuw and bohuw.

EXACTLY! That is what we read was upon the face of the deep, complete absence of all light that figuratively would bring misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness [H2822] upon this earth even to the sons of God. But what does God promise the sons of God through His Son, Jesus Christ? ALL things, not just good things, but ALL things, including all that comes as darkness to our hearts and minds work together for good to them that love God, who are called according to his purpose.

Romans 8:28 (KJV) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

How does evil that comes as darkness and death spiritually and physically work together for the good to them that love God?

It was through evil that comes as darkness/death that Christ would show that not even darkness of death can separate believers from the love of God through Him. That's why we're told not to worry about all the evil that shall be upon this earth. Because darkness and death of the body for the sons of God is not the end, but the beginning of eternal spiritual life in the Kingdom of God with Christ forever.

Romans 8:34-39 (KJV) Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Evil did not exist before the thought, and the evil thought is not of God, nor created by God.

Evil from darkness could not be known before the creation of mankind. Evil that comes from darkness, like good that comes from light could only exist and be known after A&E listened to the voice of evil (serpent) and sinned against God. It was after they sinned that their eyes were opened, and they KNEW they were naked and for the first time they felt shame. Their inward man (personality) from that moment became like that of the serpent that deceived them.

Naked:

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
5903. עֵירֹם eyrom (ʻêyrôm)

Search for H5903 in KJVSL; in KJV; load in ESI.

עֵירֹם ʻêyrôm, ay-rome' - or עֵרֹם ʻêrôm; from H6191; nudity:—naked(-ness).


Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
6191. עָרַם aram (ʻâram)

Search for H6191 in KJVSL; in KJV; load in ESI.

עָרַם ʻâram, aw-ram' - a primitive root; properly, to be (or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense (through the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually in a bad sense):—× very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly.

As I've already shown the Spirit that gave A&E life departed from them and another spirit from God, the spirit from darkness/evil entered into them, and through them the whole human race became of a fallen inward man, born with the same fallen spirit as that of the serpent.

God withdrawing the blessing / good from us "creates" evil. God Himself does not "create" evil. He cannot - because He is only good.

Of course not! But knowing that evil/death would come from darkness, God, from before the foundation of the world provided a remedy for the problem of sin and death; Christ, the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. So those whose names are written in the book of life would not fall as our first parents had. Faithful sons of God will not again be deceived, and will not worship the dragon named Satan and his beasts.

Revelation 13:8 (KJV) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

You do not understand what the LORD God who created the heavens and the earth is saying to you, rwb. Evil is the absence of good. The withdrawal of God's blessing (the good) "creates" evil.

I believe I've shown that I understand exactly how evil not only exists from the fall, but also how God has ordained all that comes to pass, and from the beginning did not destroy darkness because evil that would come from the darkness would be used by Him to bring about the greatest good for the sons of God.
 

rwb

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You have formed a whole false theology based on erroneous thinking. Adam and Eve did not know (have an intimate knowledge of) evil before they ate of the tree of THE KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, @TribulationSigns

While I agree that A&E had no knowledge of good and evil until after they ate of the forbidden tree. But I also agree with TS AFTER the fall because he has clearly shown how the spirit of evil is since the fall within fallen mankind who do the deeds through the spirit of their father. It's not that Satan does not exist, but that his existence is dependent upon him dwelling within the hearts of man who has not been born again of the Spirit of Christ, are not sons of God.