Who is Israel?

[Truth7t7]

And after we are not on earth, the Lord deals with Israel and gets them to say uncle.

Once again and again, there isn't a pre-tribulation as you "Falsely" suggest

Jesus returns in the second coming in fire and final judgment (The End) as you've been shown numerous times in your denial of biblical truth

 

[The Light]

Isaiah 14 is a series of prophecies, that will take place in different segments of time.

For example, Isaiah 14:12-15 is talking about Satan's desire to achieve God-hood. Which indicates that Satan will enter the Antichrist when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood. Revealing himself to be the man of sin.

Do some research Douggg. Though I love KJV verse 12 is a translation error.

This verse is talking about the DAY STAR who is Nimrod. Nimrod at his death is claimed to be the sun. This is essence of the Babylonian religion that has fooled the world. Most of the false religions of the world have a male sun God who is Nimrod. Examples would be Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism etc. etc. etc. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning light bearer. The word is an improper translation. Do some research.

Isaiah.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Read verses 14-15 and then read...

verse16. Is verse 16 talking about Satan, or the assassinated man of sin ?

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

The verses themselves prove you are incorrect. Is this the MAN that made the earth to tremble. The verses are talking about Nimrod, the day star, not Satan.

In verse 19, the assassinated man of sin will not be allowed to remain dead and receive an ornate tomb, because of his acts of destroying his land (Israel) and his people (the Jew) in verse 20.

Verse 20 ends that segment of prophecy to take place in the end times.

Verse 21-32 switches back to the time of the Assyrians

These verses are talking about Nimrod, who was and is not and will come again. He is the beast of the sea, who is the eighth king who is of the 7. Nimrod is the King of Babylon and the Assyrian.

and king Ahaz (verse 28). I did a google search on when did king Ahaz lived and go this AI response...

King Ahaz of Judah reigned during the 8th century BC, with most scholars placing his 16-year rule between approximately 735–715 BC. He was the son of Jotham, ascended the throne at age 20, and was known for his alliance with Assyria and promoting idolatry during the Syro-Ephraimite War.

The fiery flying serpent represents Nimrod



The fiery flying serpent, often associated with Nimrod, is a creature described in the Book of Isaiah and the Book of Numbers. It is depicted as a serpent with wings and a burning, fiery essence, symbolizing divine and purifying fire in the heavenly realm. The serpent is mentioned in Isaiah 14:29 and Isaiah 30:6, where it is described as a viper and fiery flying serpent. In the context of the Book of Numbers, the fiery serpents bit the people, leading to much death. Moses then made a brazen serpent to heal the people, symbolizing the crucifixion of Christ. The fiery flying serpent is also linked to the seraphim, representing the highest form of divine beings.

Isaiah 14
28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the Lord hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.

Again...............ALL OF ISAIAH 14 IS TALKING ABOUT NIMROD WHO IS THE KING OF BABYLON AND THE ASSRYIAN. HE WILL BE THE EIGHTH KING WHO IS OF THE SEVEN.

The thing that hath been is that which shall be and that which is done is that which shall be done and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

[Truth7t7]

And this is exactly why when someone that is not a Jew claims to be God and there is an image set up............that the Jews flee to a place of protection.

THIS IS 100% PROOF THAT THE ANTICHRIST IS NOT A JEW.

Your claim is "False" as you been clearly shown in post #24 without response

 

[The Light]

Once again and again, there isn't a pre-tribulation as you "Falsely" suggest

Jesus returns in the second coming in fire and final judgment (The End) as you've been shown numerous times in your denial of biblical truth

There are two raptures. One at the 6th seal and one when you think not. This will be a secret rapture of the Church before the great tribulation. You might want to watch as you have been instructed by God.

 

[The Light]

Your claim is "False" as you been clearly shown in post #24 without response

Sorry Bub. See post #29 which is the response to your post #24. BTW, have you responded to post #29?

 

[dad]

Made what up? You don't recognize Messianic Jews? Obviously, as a nation Israel is not following Christ. Like Jesus said, "Forgive them for they know not what they do."

He also said repent or perish

Missing the point. The promises preceded the Gentile nations even becoming believers!

Doesn't matter. They still had to believe then

On the contrary, read Eze 36.22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.

You're going to believe what you want to believe.

Saving the remnant and then restoring them and destroying their enemies is what He does for His names sake. NOT justify terrorism and unbelief.

 

[dad]

Once again and again, there isn't a pre-tribulation as you "Falsely" suggest

If there is a Tribulation there has to be something before. (pre) For example we are now pre Tribulation. Since the Great Tribulation is precisely 3 1/2 years then anything before that time has to be 'pre' also (such as the first part of the seven years)

Jesus returns in the second coming in fire and final judgment (The End) as you've been shown numerous times in your denial of biblical truth

Not world/universe destroying fire obviously when He first returns. You see He judges nations round about, and slays wicked, and rewards people and rules etc etc. You are conflating the end of the thousand years with the second coming.

 

[Douggg]

This verse is talking about the DAY STAR who is Nimrod. Nimrod at his death is claimed to be the sun. This is essence of the Babylonian religion that has fooled the world.

Nimrod lived around 2300-2100 BCE, shortly after the flood. Nimrod was involved with the building the tower of Babel - which God stopped the continued construction by confusing the speech of the people.......by which the term "Babel" originated.

What verses in the bible did Nimrod claim to be the sun ?

I don't see the word "Nimrod" anywhere in the text of Isaiah 14. Isaiah 14:12 says Lucifer, not Nimrod. Lucifer refers to Satan. The term "Lucifer" is found in only place in the bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes fellow heirs of salvation.

Not just salvation. It says fellow heirs of God's promises. All of them.

God has plenty more than land for Jewish believers. But He keeps His promises and also has land of course. He is not a liar.

Scripture teaches that God is not a respecter of persons (does not show favoritism based on ethnicity or nationality) and that there is neither Jew nor Gentile amongst God's people. So, you are contradicting a great deal of New Testament scripture by trying to separate God's people into two groups. Jesus Christ brought Jew and Gentile believers together as one body and you are trying to turn them into two bodies instead. That is unacceptable and you are buying into the false doctrinal system of dispensationalism by doing that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am a Christian, a new creation in Christ. Not a "spiritual" Israelite.

You can deny being a spiritual Israelite all you want, but it doesn't change the truth.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul contrasts physical, national Israel with spiritual Israel in this passage. He indicates that a spiritual Israelite is a child of God and of the promise who is Abraham's spiritual seed in contrast to a national, physical Israelite who physically descends from Abraham and the nation of Israel. Do you deny being a child of God and of the promise who is one of Abraham's spiritual seed?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Correct, and until that time the Jews have the promised land. (saved Jews) The new heavens is after the 1000 years end

Not true. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob already dwelt in the promised land and realized that God has something far better for them in mind, which He has in mind for all of His people. Read this...

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob understood that the promised land was "a strange country", so they instead desired "a better country, that is, an heavenly" and "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God". Why do you not desire something better for them when that is what they desired and were looking for?

 

[The Light]

Nimrod lived around 2300-2100 BCE, shortly after the flood. Nimrod was involved with the building the tower of Babel - which God stopped the continued construction by confusing the speech of the people.......by which the term "Babel" originated.

And it is from this confusion of speech that most of the false religions of the world originated. Those that could understand each other grouped together and left the area. All these religions are based on the sun, moon and stars. That would be Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. They just have different names because the languages are different. This is why there are pyramids all over the world.

What verses in the bible did Nimrod claim to be the sun ?

Isaiah 14
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

In the Babylonian religion, Nimrod is claimed to become the sun. In Egypt, it's the same religion but Nimrod is Ra or Osiris. This is all over the world in different forms and they are all waiting for the false Messiah, Tammuz who is Horus, who is Apollo etc. etc. etc.

I don't see the word "Nimrod" anywhere in the text of Isaiah 14.

Is there anyone else in the world throught history that is a Babylonian King and an Assyrian?.

You don't see the name Nimrod but God tell us who the king of Babylon is in this verse.

Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

For this to make sense to you, you would need to understand this.

Jeremiah 10
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

But it is doubtful you understand these things.

Isaiah 14:12 says Lucifer, not Nimrod. Lucifer refers to Satan. The term "Lucifer" is found in only place in the bible.

Do you ever REsearch anything? I told you, Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "light bearer". I thought KJV was supposed to be an English translation. The Hebrew word is translated incorrectly.

Here is a short summary.

"The translation error of "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 is a result of the Latin Vulgate's translation of the Hebrew word "heylel." The Latin term "lucifer" is derived from the Latin word for 'light' and 'bearer,' which does not directly refer to Satan. The KJV translators followed this Latin translation, which has been widely accepted and perpetuated in Christian tradition. However, this translation has been critiqued for its lack of biblical context and its association with the concept of Satan. The original Hebrew text does not use the term "Lucifer" and does not refer to a fallen angel or a demon. The term "Lucifer" is a modern interpretation and does not appear in the original Hebrew Bible."

 

[dad]

Not just salvation. It says fellow heirs of God's promises. All of them.

Nope. That was not the context at all, that everyone is promised the lands in the mid east. Sorry. What promise are we talking about? Jesus's promise I think - 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
Here are a few translations of the passage to get a balanced perspective-

6 This is God's plan. Those who are not Jews will also share in the blessings of God. They also are a part of the body of Jesus Christ. They also will receive the things God has promised in Jesus Christ through the good news.

And this is the secret: that the Gentiles will have their full share with the Jews in all the riches inherited by God’s sons; both are invited to belong to his Church, and all of God’s promises of mighty blessings through Christ apply to them both when they accept the Good News about Christ and what he has done for them.

The gentiles are heirs-in-common, members-in-common of the body, and common participants in what was promised[a] by the Messiah[b] Jesus through the gospel.

The promises of certain land from the Euphrates to the sea are NOT gospel promises! You don't get to lump those old promises of land to Jews in with the promises of Jesus and the gospel.

Scripture teaches that God is not a respecter of persons (does not show favoritism based on ethnicity or nationality) and that there is neither Jew nor Gentile amongst God's people

He also teaches we get different rewards and that He keeps His word. God keeping old promises does not make Him a respecter of persons but a God who keeps promises to all. You were wrong and out of context and should admit it

 

[dad]

Not true. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob already dwelt in the promised land and realized that God has something far better for them in mind, which He has in mind for all of His people. Read this...

Never in history have Jewish people had the lands God promised (only some of the land)

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob understood that the promised land was "a strange country", so they instead desired "a better country, that is, an heavenly" and "a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God". Why do you not desire something better for them when that is what they desired and were looking for?

God promised them certain lands, do you think He is slack concerning His promises? Yes people long ago (before we knew about a New Jerusalem God would build for believers one day in the future) desired a heavenly world rather than the death and war and etc that exists here. Part of the promises of God is that He would be their God again and restore them to the land etc. When Jesus returns to earth, it will be a heavenly city in Jerusalem where we rule the earth from! Not only that, but after the thousand years He makes a brand new universe and world where we all live together forever. So having God fulfill promises of bringing them back TO THAT LAND and protecting them, and slaying their enemies etc etc etc does not take away from them also having a heavenly city one day! His 'something better' INCLUDES the promised land for them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree. That does not leave the people who claim He restored them in 1948 in a good place though:)

Only the ones who got saved. He will fulfill HIs promises to Isreal but only after these two things take place:

Ezekiel 20:33-38

King James Version

​

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Zechariah 13:8-9

King James Version

​

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[dad]

Only the ones who got saved. He will fulfill HIs promises to Isreal but only after these two things take place:

Well, He never restored the saved Jews to the land in 1948 either. When He restores them you'll know about it

Ezekiel 20:33-38​

​

King James Version​

​

​

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

Right, and that is certainly not secular Israel. It is not He that rules them

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Zechariah 13:8-9​

He shall indeed one day. For the saved Jews.
No connection of course to 1948

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Again they sure do not say that now, nor does God!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well, He never restored the saved Jews to the land in 1948 either. When He restores them you'll know about it

Right, and that is certainly not secular Israel. It is not He that rules them

He shall indeed one day. For the saved Jews.
No connection of course to 1948


Again they sure do not say that now, nor does God!

Gods promises never fail. They may be postponed, but whe God has said "it shall come to pass" it shall come to pass. Israel has always been a mix of believer and non believer. IN 1948 there were saved jews brought back to the land. I was in Israel in 2017 and I knwo there are tens of thousands of Messianic believing Jes in the land. God has always had a remanat of believing Jews

 

[Douggg]

Isaiah 14
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Those verses don't mention Nimrod. Nor the sun.

 

[The Light]

Those verses don't mention Nimrod. Nor the sun.

Douggg are you capable of simple deductive reasoning?

Go to your settings and check to make sure that your deductive reasoning setting is turned on.

 

[covenantee]

Never in history have Jewish people had the lands God promised (only some of the land)

Joshua declares otherwise.

Joshua 21
43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.