Death Penalty: All in Favor? All Opposed?

[Wrangler]

A friend recently wondered how many here support capital punishment but was afraid to ask. What do you think is the strongest arguments for and against it? @Armour of God, @Taken, @Debp, @Button, @Aunty Jane, @Reggie Belafonte, @Lizbeth

Just last weekend, I told my daughter that by the time someone becomes an adult, they hardly ever change their mind on any moral issue. And when they do, it's often because of a S.E.E. - a significant emotional event. This is a topic I wrote about before in the context something I changed my mind on.

As an Adult, On What Moral Issue Have You Changed Your Mind?

This thread got me thinking https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/do-you-believe-in-biological-evolution.73976/ As an Adult, On What Moral Issue Have You Changed Your Mind? For all the debating in our society, this question reveals the futility in it, for the most part. For me, I can think...

www.christianityboard.com

PRO'S:

1. JUSTICE. Leviticus 24:17-22 (REV)​

17“‘And if a man takes the life of any human being, he must be put to death, yes, death.​

18He who takes the life of an animal is to make restitution for it, life for life.d​

19If anyone injures his fellow Israelite, as he has done, so it is to be done to him:​

20fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured someone, so is it to be done to him.​

21He who kills an animal is to make restitution, but he who kills a human is to be put to death.​

22You are to have one kind of law for the sojourner as well as the native-born; because I am Yahweh your God.’”​

2. DETERRENT. American Law and Economics Review, Volume 5, Issue 2, August 2003, Pages 344–376,​

Evidence on the deterrent effect of capital punishment is important for many states that are currently reconsidering their position on the issue. We examine the deterrent hypothesis by using county-level, postmoratorium panel data and a system of simultaneous equations. The procedure we employ overcomes common aggregation problems, eliminates the bias arising from unobserved heterogeneity, and provides evidence relevant for current conditions. Our results suggest that capital punishment has a strong deterrent effect; each execution results, on average, in eighteen fewer murders—with a margin of error of plus or minus ten. Tests show that results are not driven by tougher sentencing laws and are robust to many alternative specifications.​

​

This is highly debated and most groups deny there is evidence of a deterrent affect although many anecdotally believe it is a deterrent.​

​

3. FINANCIAL-DEFEATING THE PRISON INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX​

Sadly, in America the prison system has grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. America imprisons a larger % of its citizens than any country on Earth. Who does this benefit? Certainly not society.​

​

The cost of execution, the cost of a bullet, electricity, chemicals or scaffolding is far less than 50 years in prison. The American system of appeals taking decades makes a mockery of the Constitutional guarantee of a speedy trial. This corruption of the trial and appeals process is often used falsely to claim it is not cheaper to execute someone. Of course capital punishment is cheaper by over 99.9%.​

​

4. HISTORY​

Leviticus goes back to nearly 2,000 BC. The death penalty has always been a part of human civilization. It's only new age, modern sensibility that it, like slavery, is considered barbaric and offends modern, delicate sensibilities. That is not the consensus of history.​

CONS

1. PHILOSOPHY OF RIGHTS​

Government, being an extension of the people, cannot have rights the people don't have. And people do not have the right to kill someone where there is not a self-defense scenario. In other words, once a person is captured and arrested, killing by the State is murder.​

2. NO REMEDY FOR ERROR​

First formulated in a 1769 doctrine that says, “it is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer.” In the event that a person was wrongly imprisoned, society can compensate him financially so he might best enjoy his remaining years. With capital punishment, there is no remedy to compensate a person for error in our fallible justice system.​

CONCLUSION

From a numerical average perspective, obviously there are more arguments in favor. However, if one does a weighted average analysis, it can tilt the result to be opposed, which is what happened with me. Can devout Christians such as us agree to disagree on this important moral issue? Thoughts?

 

[Lambano]

The death penalty carries the inherent risk of executing an innocent person. Since 1973, at least 202 people who were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death in the U.S. have been exonerated

Source: Innocence | Death Penalty Information Center

Note: The estimated number of people wrongly executed in the US ranges from 21 (ACLU figures, which are, ironically, conservative) to over 100 since 1973 (Innocence Project).

 

[Wrangler]

Source: Innocence | Death Penalty Information Center

Note: The estimated number of people wrongly executed in the US ranges from 21 (ACLU) to over 100 since 1973.

I read the other day that 170,000 people die from all causes everyday worldwide.

 

[Lambano]

The statistic is one out of one. 100% of every person born will die. That isn't the point.

And as it is appointed for men to die once, and then the judgment... (Hebrews 9:27)

 

[Wrangler]

That isn't the point.

What is your point?

 

[Taken]

A friend recently wondered how many here support capital punishment but was afraid to ask. What do you think is the strongest arguments for and against it? [USER], @Lizbeth

Just last weekend, I told my daughter that by the time someone becomes an adult, they hardly ever change their mind on any moral issue. And when they do, it's often because of a S.E.E. - a significant emotional event. This is a topic I wrote about before in the context something I changed my mind on.

Death Sentence… I agree.
For Murder Only….I disagree.

Reasoning… parallels Gods Word.

Life Sentence (without parole possibility) in Prison…
I find a Harsh, Horrible, unJust, penalty…. And Burden on All… Society, Guards and the Prisoners themselves.

Agree…with you , with God…
an individual without God, denying God…is hard pressed, resistant to Seek Him…
UNTIL the individual becomes “utterly Hopeless” in ALL aspects of their Life.

A death Sentence is the ultimate Signal of Hopelessness”…

They go through the stages of Grief…mad, fear, sorrow, etc…..hanging on to Appeals, hope for a Life Sentence (they have never experienced it’s horrific meaning) or a Pardon…should there be “new old Evidence” to support a Pardon.

For they Sentenced to Prison… clergy is available to them…
In open population, there is “group church” with a preacher they can Attend.
Not Required.

Cases, Testimonies are so drawn out… and witnesses, from those involved, “cohesion” “hearsay”, “so called Experts Opinions” and “informants” gets muddled and twisted…with gain of fame and favors…
facts and lies.

Sure … FEW with “No involvement” are unjustly imprisoned.

Sure … FEW with “minor Involvement” are sometimes imprisoned with a Hefty Sentence.

Sure … FEW (regarding AGE), Ignorantly calculated they could commit a grievous Crime, with an automatic exemption of a harsh punishment.

Sure … SOME have fooled the Jurors with Clever Tactics…. And “got away with their Crimes”… and enter Society with the Same “mindset”.

Not a Perfect system, but is, the best system.
Problems do not Expressly Regard the system itself…
Remembering… people in general, lie, cheat, sneak, steal….
(Regardless of their Power or Authority or Title).

Power positions are “supposed” to be regarding qualification to DO the Job…
No test to see if they are honest or upstanding.

(drug problems, rapes, murders, escapes, contraband, in prisons..)
Gee… (not a mystery, some in authority should be wearing the orange jumpsuits).

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Armour of God]

These are the reasons why I am against capital punishment

When it comes to scripture many of the OT laws are nullified by the NT and Christ's teachings, which is what Christians live by. Teachings like eating pork and shellfish, circumcision, animal sacrifices, the ordinances between Jews and gentiles and the death penalty among other things are nullified by the New Testament

1- The 10 commandments does remain valid and is reiterated in the NT. One is "thou shall not murder". The death penalty directly disobeys that law and is as morally wrong as the crime itself.

2- The NT and the teachings of Christ emphasize mercy, forgiveness, the sanctity of life, and leaving vengeance to God.

2a- Romans 12:17-19 says
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

2b- On the sermon of the mount Jesus tells us to love our enemies, turn the cheek and forgive one another. I'm not saying to simply release criminals, they should still be punished but imprisonment is sufficient, it removes dangerous people from hurting society which is the main objective. Therefore death is not required as it does nothing more.

2c- In John 8 we see Jesus stopping the stoning of an adulteress saying
“Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
So we see that Jesus is against the death penalty. After criminals serve time in jail they ought to be given a second chance to turn their lives around just as Jesus gave this woman another chance.

3- Imprisoning someone also gives them a chance to repent, turn to God and be saved just as we saw with the story of Paul. He was murdering believers and was given a chance by God to turn his life around.

4- Jesus' death on the cross is viewed as taking on the penalty of death on behalf of sinners. He died for our sins ending the need for capital punishment.

5- Its a violation of international human rights. The right to life and freedom from torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading punishment. Especially when one has shown remorse for their actions.

6- In terms of punishment for repeat offenders, life without parole is a much more severe, long-lasting punishment than a swift, easy way out execution.

7- Capital punishment fails to deter crime. A 2020 analysis showed that 9 out of 10 American states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Studies show that states and countries with the death penalty do not have lower crime or homicide rates than those that have abolished it. We can see that from the high homicide rate in America compared to other countries

8- Cost. In 2024, Utah executed Taberon Honie, killed his girlfriend’s mother while intoxicated. His execution cost $288,685. According to the Death Penalty Information Center, that cost is equivalent to one year of healthcare for 38 people or one year of education for 65 public school students. That cost doesn’t include how much taxpayers spent on Honie’s 25-year stay on death row. In California, holding people on death row costs taxpayers $90,000 more each year than people in the general population. This nullifies the argument of paying for imprisoned people, the cost of execution is about the same if not more. Your taxes will not go down because of this

9- Authoritarian abuse, killing political opponents and whoever they want without a fair trial. In the Nasiriyah prison in Iraq, executions happen without warning. Men have their names read out on a loudspeaker, and then they’re gone. They’re not executed because they’ve committed horrendous crimes. One man told Human Rights Watch that his imprisoned brothers were accused of terrorism because they refused to be extorted by a militia group. In prison, the men endure physical torture, as well as the psychological torture of not knowing when they might be executed. To avoid public outrage, the Nasiriyah prison conducts mass executions in secret. Death row holds around 8,000 people, most charged with bogus terrorism offenses.

10- Gods judgement is righteous.
Humans judgment (justice system) is prone to error and corruption.
How many criminals can be killed to justify the killing of just one innocent person?
I say none.

I would be devastated if myself or someone i loved was wronfully sent to death because of an error or for simply not being able to pay my/their way out of it.

10a- It disadvantages the poor, minorities, and those with inadequate legal representation. In a system where you need a lot of money to mount a decent defense, the death penalty is inherently unjust towards the poor. They might give you a lawyer but their not very good or else they'd working in a firm for big money

China executed 1,000 people last year, even if only one was innocent than I consider it to be wrong. The death penalty achieves nothing that imprisonment already does, it only serves the thirst for revenge.

Here is an article with 10 reasons why the death penalty is wrong including reasons i didn't use. I used some info from this source

10 Reasons Why The Death Penalty is Wrong

 

[amigo de christo]

Death Sentence… I agree.
For Murder Only….I disagree.

Reasoning… parallels Gods Word.

Life Sentence (without parole possibility) in Prison…
I find a Harsh, Horrible, unJust, penalty…. And Burden on All… Society, Guards and the Prisoners themselves.

Agree…with you , with God…
an individual without God, denying God…is hard pressed, resistant to Seek Him…
UNTIL the individual becomes “utterly Hopeless” in ALL aspects of their Life.

A death Sentence is the ultimate Signal of Hopelessness”…

They go through the stages of Grief…mad, fear, sorrow, etc…..hanging on to Appeals, hope for a Life Sentence (they have never experienced it’s horrific meaning) or a Pardon…should there be “new old Evidence” to support a Pardon.

For they Sentenced to Prison… clergy is available to them…
In open population, there is “group church” with a preacher they can Attend.
Not Required.

Cases, Testimonies are so drawn out… and witnesses, from those involved, “cohesion” “hearsay”, “so called Experts Opinions” and “informants” gets muddled and twisted…with gain of fame and favors…
facts and lies.

Sure … FEW with “No involvement” are unjustly imprisoned.

Sure … FEW with “minor Involvement” are sometimes imprisoned with a Hefty Sentence.

Sure … FEW (regarding AGE), Ignorantly calculated they could commit a grievous Crime, with an automatic exemption of a harsh punishment.

Sure … SOME have fooled the Jurors with Clever Tactics…. And “got away with their Crimes”… and enter Society with the Same “mindset”.

Not a Perfect system, but is, the best system.
Problems do not Expressly Regard the system itself…
Remembering… people in general, lie, cheat, sneak, steal….
(Regardless of their Power or Authority or Title).

Power positions are “supposed” to be regarding qualification to DO the Job…
No test to see if they are honest or upstanding.

(drug problems, rapes, murders, escapes, contraband, in prisons..)
Gee… (not a mystery, some in authority should be wearing the orange jumpsuits).

Glory to God,
Taken

i have a good question for all of us .
Say someone did kill another . COULD YOU THEN be the one
that pulled the lever on such person .
Could you pull that lever knowing it WAS YOU that put that person to death .
I want to hear what folks have to say about this question .
I know I COULD NOT put one to death . And i know WHY i cannot .
BUT if anyone here thinks otherwise
lets hear it . IF the govt gave you permission to walk up and jus SHOOT the offender in the head
and put him to death
COULD YOU DO IT .
I COULD NOT .

 

[Wrangler]

10 Reasons Why The Death Penalty is Wrong

From the Heritage Foundation, The Death Penalty Is Appropriate.

Comparing and contrasting your post to the Heritage Foundation article, your argument is primarily moral while the Heritage article is primarily legal. This makes the basis FOR capital punishment Circular.

P1. Women should not vote.​

P2. Laws don't allow women to vote.​

C. Women should not vote.​

​

The one moral argument in favor of capital punishment extends from @Taken's post. Life in prison, relegated to essentially solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment, worse than death. This and other arguments both sides assert, such as cost, being a deterrent and Biblical support.

One thing you believe that I disagree with is the chance to repent. IF someone deserves the death penalty where that is the sentence, it is wrong that they live long enough to repent decades later "becoming" a different person. If you punish an animal too long after the wrong doing, they don't connect the punishment with the wrong doing. Karla Faye Tucker - Wikipedia

 

[Wrangler]

1- The 10 commandments does remain valid and is reiterated in the NT. One is "thou shall not murder". The death penalty directly disobeys that law and is as morally wrong as the crime itself.

You cannot be serious! You're obviously misapplying it as the OT had God himself command putting people to death. So, it was not construed as God commanding us to violate his own commandments.

See OP philosophy of rights. In other words, what you're saying is defensible on philosophical grounds, not theological grounds. Here is where the analysis gets very fascinating.

 

[Wrangler]

2c- In John 8 we see Jesus stopping the stoning of an adulteress saying
“Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
So we see that Jesus is against the death penalty.

Come on man! A judge who is the most pro-death penalty judge of all time could, on occasion, believe a certain case does not deserve the death penalty.

It is a stretch to draw the conclusion from this one case.

 

[talons]

IF the govt gave you permission to walk up and jus SHOOT the offender in the head
and put him to death
COULD YOU DO IT .
I COULD NOT .

Our military men and women , pray for them .


The Story Of Sgt. York, The Man Who Killed Or Captured More Than 100 Germans In A Single WWI Battle

 

[Armour of God]

You cannot be serious! You're obviously misapplying it as the OT had God himself command putting people to death. So, it was not construed as God commanding us to violate his own commandments.

See OP philosophy of rights. In other words, what you're saying is defensible on philosophical grounds, not theological grounds. Here is where the analysis gets very fascinating.

I don't understand what you mean.
The command is thou shall not murder and that is being violated. What's wrong with that?

 

[Armour of God]

Come on man! A judge who is the most pro-death penalty judge of all time could, on occasion, believe a certain case does not deserve the death penalty.

It is a stretch to draw the conclusion from this one case.

Well you have your opinion. I have mine

Stoning her to death was the OT law of the Jews. Jesus nullifies that. If he had supported the Jewish law of the OT then he would of allowed the stoning. And by saying whoever has not sinned can cast a stone he is saying that they're hypocrites for wanting to kill her as they have all sinned before.

People are drawing conclusions from one case or bible verse all the time. But I gave several biblical cases not just one

 

[Armour of God]

Comparing and contrasting your post to the Heritage Foundation article, your argument is primarily moral while the Heritage article is primarily legal. This makes the basis FOR capital punishment Circular.

I don't understand your criticism here

If you punish an animal too long after the wrong doing, they don't connect the punishment with the wrong doing

A person understands what their being punished for, they don't just forget after a while. That's why there's pastors and counsellors in prison to help them come to terms with what they did. The longer their in for the more they will regret their crime
Paul understood why he was blinded by God he didn't just forget everything like a goldfish

Well that's my opinion anyway.
I don't support capital punishment

If it was you or a loved one being wrongly sent to be executed I bet you would oppose the death penalty. True?

 

[Armour of God]

i have a good question for all of us .
Say someone did kill another . COULD YOU THEN be the one
that pulled the lever on such person .
Could you pull that lever knowing it WAS YOU that put that person to death .
I want to hear what folks have to say about this question .
I know I COULD NOT put one to death . And i know WHY i cannot .
BUT if anyone here thinks otherwise
lets hear it . IF the govt gave you permission to walk up and jus SHOOT the offender in the head
and put him to death
COULD YOU DO IT .
I COULD NOT .

That's another argument I was going to add. The mental anguish for all involved from the guards to the executioner, the lawyers, judge, jury and even the families of the accused and the victims. That's something that will traumatize people

 

[Taken]

i have a good question for all of us .
Say someone did kill another . COULD YOU THEN be the one
that pulled the lever on such person .
Could you pull that lever knowing it WAS YOU that put that person to death .
I want to hear what folks have to say about this question .
I know I COULD NOT put one to death . And i know WHY i cannot .
BUT if anyone here thinks otherwise
lets hear it . IF the govt gave you permission to walk up and jus SHOOT the offender in the head
and put him to death
COULD YOU DO IT .
I COULD NOT .

I have never aspired to hold a job, in a prison, in any capacity.
So have never had to consider such a wonderment.

 

[amigo de christo]

I have never aspired to hold a job, in a prison, in any capacity.
So have never had to consider such a wonderment.

so now that you have been asked the question .
IF a man or woman was convicted of the death penalty .
And you were called upon to put a bullet in their skull
or to push the lever to fry them
or perhaps given the shot to kill them .
COULD YOU DO IT . that be the question i ask us all .
AND I KNOW I COULD NOT PUT that person to death . B ut my question is co uld you do so .
its just a friendly question .

 

[amigo de christo]

I have never aspired to hold a job, in a prison, in any capacity.
So have never had to consider such a wonderment.

I will soon bring another real simple question to us all .
But first lets answer this one .

 

[Wrangler]

I don't understand what you mean.
The command is thou shall not murder and that is being violated. What's wrong with that?

I already explained. What you and I call murder was not construed as such in OT days.