This is the context of how Dan. 9:24-27 should be considered!

[Earburner]

It has been the HS who has revealed these things to me and they align w/ the whole of prophecy. it would be revealed to others if they prayed for understanding instead of dismissal because it's something you haven't heard before. In these latter days scripture promises that our knowledge of prophecy, among other types, will increase. Nobody else has taught me these things. If there is something about it you don't understand or comprehend, ask. It would take a book to try and explain everything but ask a couple of questions at a time about it if you want to see where we branch off.

I am not saying that YOU don't have the Holy Spirit!! I am only saying somewhere along the road of your learning, your own human wisdom may be coming into play against you, such as a particular slant of a denominational doctrine had taken deep root within you years ago, and you simply have not let it go.

So then, are you saying that the six works of God, that God gave to Jesus for him to do in Dan. 9:24, have not all been "finished"?

Jesus said that he did finish those works!!
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

 

[CTK]

Nowhere in Scripture will you find "He died on the last day of the 69th week"

When you say: "The 70th week never began"= you speak against the TRUTH

24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.
25“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The street shall be built again, and the wall,
Even in troublesome times.
26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Hims

It has been the HS who has revealed these things to me and they align w/ the whole of prophecy. it would be revealed to others if they prayed for understanding instead of dismissal because it's something you haven't heard before. In these latter days scripture promises that our knowledge of prophecy, among other types, will increase. Nobody else has taught me these things. If there is something about it you don't understand or comprehend, ask. It would take a book to try and explain everything but ask a couple of questions at a time about it if you want to see where we branch off.

I can assure you that the Holy Spirit did reveal the interpretations to me during my long study of Daniel.

Now what?

 

[Earburner]

They are two different anointings. Christ's anointing was a consecration for service. The anointing prophesied in Dan. 9:24 will be an anointing w/ oil as King and Messiah of Israel, just as was done w/ Saul, David and other kings. Dan. 9:24 specifically states that the goals given were for Israel to accomplish. There is nothing in the context that suggests Messiah will do it for them. How, you may ask? Read the OP again.

@Trekson said: "Dan. 9:24 specifically states that the goals given were for Israel to accomplish."
I do not see your understanding of Dan. 9:24 in the KJV.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

Since I have provided a bible reference that I use, could you please list what Bible version you are reading from, that informs you that the six works of God in Dan. 9:24 are to be accomplished by Israel?

Would the following be a biblical understanding that you can agree with?
Dan. 9:24 There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

Edit: By the way, if you do have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within you, you should immediately recognize that under the New covenant, "oil" is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. In the parable of the Ten Virgins, Jesus makes it plain.
Mat. 25
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took NO oil with them:
4 But the wise took OIL IN their vessels  with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in [our] earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

For the correct understanding, please know who/what the treasure is that is within us:
The lamps are symbolic of God's word. Psalm 119:105.
The Oil is symbolic of God's Holy Spirit.
Psalm 45:7; Heb. 1:9

 

[Trekson]

I am not saying that YOU don't have the Holy Spirit!! I am only saying somewhere along the road of your learning, your own human wisdom may be coming into play against you, such as a particular slant of a denominational doctrine had taken deep root within you years ago, and you simply have not let it go.

So then, are you saying that the six works of God, that God gave to Jesus for him to do in Dan. 9:24, have not all been "finished"?

Jesus said that he did finish those works!!
John 17:4
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

God didn't give them for Jesus to do. The text explicitly says "upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:" Christ laid the foundation for Israel to accomplish that but in reality, there is still sin, transgressions and iniquity happening even within the church. Israel is to "bring in" everlasting righteousness, seal up vision and prophecy, anoint the most holy. In reality, Jesus is "everlasting righteousness" but he didn't "bring it in" to Jerusalem, on a national level. Jesus only sealed up the visions and prophecies concerning himself, Lk. 24:44, not "all of prophecy", Jesus was anointed (consecrated) in many ways but as far as I know he didn't anoint anyone w/ oil nor was he anointed w/ oil as King and Messiah, in the manner King David was is what the word "anointing" the most Holy is speaking of. In this context, I believe it is speaking of Christ and not a section of a future temple. You, with all due respect, are suggesting that they were six works that God gave Christ to do, and that they were the works spoken of in John 17:4, however, in either, part the bible doesn't suggest that at all. Christ's work was to reveal the Father to mankind. John 13:31, 14:31.

 

[Trekson]

I can assure you that the Holy Spirit did reveal the interpretations to me during my long study of Daniel.

Now what?

What is supposed to happen after the 70th week is fulfilled per Dan. 9:24?

 

[Trekson]

@Trekson said: "Dan. 9:24 specifically states that the goals given were for Israel to accomplish."
I do not see your understanding of Dan. 9:24 in the KJV.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

Since I have provided a bible reference that I use, could you please list what Bible version you are reading from, that informs you that the six works of God in Dan. 9:24 are to be accomplished by Israel?

Would the following be a biblical understanding that you can agree with?
Dan. 9:24 There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

Answered in my reply to post

@Trekson said: "Dan. 9:24 specifically states that the goals given were for Israel to accomplish."
I do not see your understanding of Dan. 9:24 in the KJV.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
1. to finish the transgression, and
2. to make an end of sins, and
3. to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
5. to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
6. to anoint the most Holy.

Since I have provided a bible reference that I use, could you please list what Bible version you are reading from, that informs you that the six works of God in Dan. 9:24 are to be accomplished by Israel?

Would the following be a biblical understanding that you can agree with?
Dan. 9:24 There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

Answered in my reply to post #421. But read it again in the light of who the passage is actually "addressed" to. Hint: the phrase "before" your #1.

 

[jeffweeder]

What is supposed to happen after the 70th week is fulfilled per Dan. 9:24?

The Gospel of the Messiah's atonement would go to the whole world.
To the Jew first then to the Gentiles to be forgiven and filled with the Holy Spirit.

God so loved the WORLD that he sent his Son to atone.


Are you redeemed?

 

[covenantee]

God didn't give them for Jesus to do. The text explicitly says "upon thy people and upon thy holy city to:" Christ laid the foundation for Israel to accomplish that but in reality, there is still sin, transgressions and iniquity happening even within the church. Israel is to "bring in" everlasting righteousness, seal up vision and prophecy, anoint the most holy. In reality, Jesus is "everlasting righteousness" but he didn't "bring it in" to Jerusalem, on a national level. Jesus only sealed up the visions and prophecies concerning himself, Lk. 24:44, not "all of prophecy", Jesus was anointed (consecrated) in many ways but as far as I know he didn't anoint anyone w/ oil nor was he anointed w/ oil as King and Messiah, in the manner King David was is what the word "anointing" the most Holy is speaking of. In this context, I believe it is speaking of Christ and not a section of a future temple. You, with all due respect, are suggesting that they were six works that God gave Christ to do, and that they were the works spoken of in John 17:4, however, in either, part the bible doesn't suggest that at all. Christ's work was to reveal the Father to mankind. John 13:31, 14:31.

You're attempting to establish that "determined upon" means "accomplished by".

Is that correct?

 

[Trekson]

The Gospel of the Messiah's atonement would go to the whole world.
To the Jew first then to the Gentiles to be forgiven and filled with the Holy Spirit.

God so loved the WORLD that he sent his Son to atone.


Are you redeemed?

The last day of the future 70th week will be the same last day of the feast of tabernacles. On that day is when Messiah will dwell on earth among His people, Israel. This is when Dan. 9:24 will be fulfilled by Israel. The rapture/resurrection is for the church, the 2nd coming is for Israel.

 

[CTK]

The last day of the future 70th week will be the same last day of the feast of tabernacles. On that day is when Messiah will dwell on earth among His people, Israel. This is when Dan. 9:24 will be fulfilled by Israel. The rapture/resurrection is for the church, the 2nd coming is for Israel.

Do you realize the 70 weeks of years prophecy is a literal 490 years broken into 3 sections- 7 then, 62 and the final 1 week?

And each “week” is 7 years long? So, AFTER the completion of the 7 and 62 weeks (483 literal years), THEN THE MESSIAH.

So, the Messiah ARRIVES…. The very first thing that takes place which BEGINS His ministry is to be baptized in the Jordan River by John. It is here we find The Father speak and ANOINT His Son with the Holy Spirit (symbolized by the dove coming down upon Him.

This BEGINS His ministry which BEGINS the last week (last 7 years) of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.

Now, what did Jesus do IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED? He IMMEDIATELY went into the desert FOR 40 days!!! This is where He was tempted by the Devil.

Now, stay with me please. So by this time, He is IN THE LAST 7 YEAR PERIOD BY NO LESS THAN 40 DAYS.

It will be another 140 days later when He will walk from Galilee to attend PASSOVER in Jerusalem. This marks EXACTLY 6 months where He is INTO the last 7 years of the prophecy.

He then will return to the Galilee and before He returns to His Father in heaven, He will attend ANOTHER 3 Passover festivals - of course, the last one He attends is the 4th and He is crucified. This 4th Passover is exactly 3.5 years AFTER HE IS BAPTIZED IN THE JORDAN.

This is what is meant by “in the midst of the week (last 7 years).

Also, the term “week” is used throughout this prophecy - because each week represents a 7 YEAR period.

And also note Scripture tells us He will fulfill the COVENANT (DURING — NOT FOR) THE WEEK (meaning everything is consistent- God is talking about the FINAL WEEK OF THE PROPHECY. There is no other week left except this final 7 year period. The translation “for a week” is completely misunderstood and mistranslated. Jesus fulfilled the Covenant DURING THAT FINAL WEEK.

That was one of His God given missions to complete. Only Jesus / God could enter into / fulfill a covenant with His people!! There is no such thing as a 7 year covenant- it is HIS NEW COVENANT FULFILLED DURING THAT WEEK- actually, “IN THE MIDST OF THAT FINAL WEEK”!!!!!!!!

He did not stay on the earth for “days”- how could He fulfill all His miracles. Travel back and forth to Jerusalem, attend 4 Passovers…heck, Lazarus himself was in the grave for 4 days before Jesus arrived to resurrect him.

Now, I could certainly go on giving you many more facts about His 3.5 year ministry before He was crucified but I don’t believe it should be necessary.

But please give me your response to the above. Nothing happens OUT OF TIME! If these events happened then they had to take place AFTER the completion of the 69 first weeks or 483 years ENDED. There is only one number that comes AFTER 69 - there is NO TIME between the 69th and the 70th of ANYTHING. Doesn’t exist.

Look forward to hearing from you. And also, if you will, who has been teaching you these things? Please give me an earthly creature or church…

 

[jeffweeder]

This is when Dan. 9:24 will be fulfilled by Israel. The rapture/resurrection is for the church, the 2nd coming is for Israel.

The Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles) are resurrected and caught up to the Lord at the second coming.

Since Jesus accomplished the full work of atonement at his first coming, Jews and Gentiles have been coming to saving faith for 2000 years. All one has to do is read Jesus words to know what happens to those who do not believe when he comes a second time.
See matt 25 and 2Thess 1

 

[Trekson]

Do you realize the 70 weeks of years prophecy is a literal 490 years broken into 3 sections- 7 then, 62 and the final 1 week?

And each “week” is 7 years long? So, AFTER the completion of the 7 and 62 weeks (483 literal years), THEN THE MESSIAH.

So, the Messiah ARRIVES…. The very first thing that takes place which BEGINS His ministry is to be baptized in the Jordan River by John. It is here we find The Father speak and ANOINT His Son with the Holy Spirit (symbolized by the dove coming down upon Him.

This BEGINS His ministry which BEGINS the last week (last 7 years) of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.

Now, what did Jesus do IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE WAS BAPTIZED? He IMMEDIATELY went into the desert FOR 40 days!!! This is where He was tempted by the Devil.

Now, stay with me please. So by this time, He is IN THE LAST 7 YEAR PERIOD BY NO LESS THAN 40 DAYS.

It will be another 140 days later when He will walk from Galilee to attend PASSOVER in Jerusalem. This marks EXACTLY 6 months where He is INTO the last 7 years of the prophecy.

He then will return to the Galilee and before He returns to His Father in heaven, He will attend ANOTHER 3 Passover festivals - of course, the last one He attends is the 4th and He is crucified. This 4th Passover is exactly 3.5 years AFTER HE IS BAPTIZED IN THE JORDAN.

This is what is meant by “in the midst of the week (last 7 years).

Also, the term “week” is used throughout this prophecy - because each week represents a 7 YEAR period.

And also note Scripture tells us He will fulfill the COVENANT (DURING — NOT FOR) THE WEEK (meaning everything is consistent- God is talking about the FINAL WEEK OF THE PROPHECY. There is no other week left except this final 7 year period. The translation “for a week” is completely misunderstood and mistranslated. Jesus fulfilled the Covenant DURING THAT FINAL WEEK.

That was one of His God given missions to complete. Only Jesus / God could enter into / fulfill a covenant with His people!! There is no such thing as a 7 year covenant- it is HIS NEW COVENANT FULFILLED DURING THAT WEEK- actually, “IN THE MIDST OF THAT FINAL WEEK”!!!!!!!!

He did not stay on the earth for “days”- how could He fulfill all His miracles. Travel back and forth to Jerusalem, attend 4 Passovers…heck, Lazarus himself was in the grave for 4 days before Jesus arrived to resurrect him.

Now, I could certainly go on giving you many more facts about His 3.5 year ministry before He was crucified but I don’t believe it should be necessary.

But please give me your response to the above. Nothing happens OUT OF TIME! If these events happened then they had to take place AFTER the completion of the 69 first weeks or 483 years ENDED. There is only one number that comes AFTER 69 - there is NO TIME between the 69th and the 70th of ANYTHING. Doesn’t exist.

Look forward to hearing from you. And also, if you will, who has been teaching you these things? Please give me an earthly creature or church…

Prophetically, Messiah "arrives" at the end of His ministry when Zech. 9:9 was fulfilled, "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." There is no prophecy concerning the "duration" of His ministry or of when his ministry will begin. This is 2-3 days before the crucifixion.

The Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles) are resurrected and caught up to the Lord at the second coming.

Since Jesus accomplished the full work of atonement at his first coming, Jews and Gentiles have been coming to saving faith for 2000 years. All one has to do is read Jesus words to know what happens to those who do not believe when he comes a second time.
See matt 25 and 2Thess 1

Israel will become believers in the context of the future 70th week when the ToJT finally ends. It is they who flee from the a/c because of their rejection in Rev. 12:14. Imo, this happens when they see the 2nd commandment being broken when the AoD is set up in Rev. 13:14-15. This time of repentance is based on the prophecy of Zech. 12:10 w/ 13:8-9, showing that it will consist of 1/3 of Israel that will enter the millennium as believers in Christ. After Armageddon there will be 45-75 days left and it is in that time period they will fulfill the last three goals of Dan. 9:24 which will also include the fulfillment of Matt. 23:39.

 

[CTK]

Prophetically, Messiah "arrives" at the end of His ministry when Zech. 9:9 was fulfilled, "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." There is no prophecy concerning the "duration" of His ministry or of when his ministry will begin. This is 2-3 days before the crucifixion.

Israel will become believers in the context of the future 70th week when the ToJT finally ends. It is they who flee from the a/c because of their rejection in Rev. 12:14. Imo, this happens when they see the 2nd commandment being broken when the AoD is set up in Rev. 13:14-15. This time of repentance is based on the prophecy of Zech. 12:10 w/ 13:8-9, showing that it will consist of 1/3 of Israel that will enter the millennium as believers in Christ. After Armageddon there will be 45-75 days left and it is in that time period they will fulfill the last three goals of Dan. 9:24 which will also include the fulfillment of Matt. 23:39.

Do you are completely ignoring the 40 days in the desert and His attendance of the 4 Passovers?

How can one arrive at the end of their ministry?

Who is teaching you?

 

[David in NJ]

The 70th will still come, nothing declares they have to be consecutive as the break of 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week shows. There is a reason why the last week is all by itself and in the linear reading it is an unknown amount of time "after" 70ad. Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill but Christ laid the foundation for them to be able to do it. No gap, = no church.

Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill

You just denied the Gospel with this statement!!!

Saying that Daniel 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill is TRUE in only One Aspect = that One Aspect is MESSIAH, The ISRAEL of GOD which is CHRIST.

You/me/everyone needs to RETURN to TRUTH which Begins in CHRIST

When we submit to God's Word we BEGIN to SEE and LIVE = Proverbs 30:5-6 & Matthew 4:4

 

[David in NJ]

Now here is God's conundrum:
26“And AFTER the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

God NEVER SAYS WHICH week is about the Messiah being "cut off" (crucified), but then He does go on to describe the 70th week.

In verse 27 God gives us a clue of what is going on in the 70th week. It's about the "he" who is Jesus, and no one else, even though many have been led to falsely believe and imagine that it might be some kind of a "man of sin".
27 And he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (seven years): and in the midst of the week he (Jesus) shall cause the (temple) sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (the continuance of animal sacrifices) he (Jesus) shall make it (the temple building) desolate, even until the consummation (the end of time), and that determined (the 6 works of God- verse 24) shall be poured (out) upon the desolate (Pentecost- on those who believe but are void of God- Acts 2:16-17).

Surely you all do know why God was being somewhat evasive (secretive) of the exact time/date of Jesus' appearance??
1 Cor. 2
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Edit:
Do you NOW understand WHY God spoke a conundrum in Dan. 9:24-27?
If Jesus was not crucified, but lived a protected life until his natural, mortal death, there would NEVER BE the forgiveness and removal of anyone's sins.....EVER!

Good Morning,

Thank you for your post = i am just seeing this now and will first have coffee and then return.

Your opening statement is 100% and we are 'onboard' = allow me to digest further as the need for speed(caffeine/hockey/HEMI) helps - lol

 

[David in NJ]

The 70th will still come, nothing declares they have to be consecutive as the break of 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week shows. There is a reason why the last week is all by itself and in the linear reading it is an unknown amount of time "after" 70ad. Dan. 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill but Christ laid the foundation for them to be able to do it. No gap, = no church.

Good Morning Trekson,

"God is for us"

Thank you for sharing your pov on scripture and end-time eschatalogy.

PLEASE allow introspection upon 'dispensationalism' by the LIGHT of God's Word.

 

[David in NJ]

I can assure you that the Holy Spirit did reveal the interpretations to me during my long study of Daniel.

Now what?

Are there 'two' Holy Spirit(s)???

Or maybe many! = one for each denomination - lol

 

[covenantee]

There is no prophecy concerning the "duration" of His ministry or of when his ministry will begin.

Seventy weeks is a duration.

His Ministry began with His Baptism in the Jordan in 27 AD.

 

[Trekson]

Do you are completely ignoring the 40 days in the desert and His attendance of the 4 Passovers?

How can one arrive at the end of their ministry?

Who is teaching you?

It's how prophecy works, some parts of his first advent were prophesied and some weren't. Christ ministered for 3 1/2 yrs but the fact is, that part wasn't prophesied. From age 12-30 we know nothing about his life. So, to get the timeline correct we have to deal w/ what was prophesied, not what wasn't. Prophetically, His crucifixion and resurrection was more important than the duration of His ministry. We are given one prophecy regarding His coming as King at the end of His ministry, as His last Passover was more important then the previous three combined. Perhaps this was done so folks would not get the false idea that the 70th week was fulfilled, when it wasn't, but that hasn't worked out very well so far. Only men say it was fulfilled, the bible never does. In this case, this proves the fact of telescoping prophecy which is where the prophets saw the mountain tops of events but not the valley of time between them. The prophecies given about his first advent highlight the important parts of his ministry. The bible says in John 21:25, "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." Since that is true, we can see why not every single thing was prophesied.

 

[Trekson]

You just denied the Gospel with this statement!!!

Saying that Daniel 9:24 is for Israel to fulfill is TRUE in only One Aspect = that One Aspect is MESSIAH, The ISRAEL of GOD which is CHRIST.

You/me/everyone needs to RETURN to TRUTH which Begins in CHRIST

When we submit to God's Word we BEGIN to SEE and LIVE = Proverbs 30:5-6 & Matthew 4:4

Where does it "say" that Dan. 9:24-27 was something for Messiah to fulfill? It's certainly not in the same place where Daniel was told they were for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill. If one actually ponders upon it, Christ didn't 'fulfill" any of them. We still have sins, transgressions and iniquities. He 'was" everlasting rightousness", He 'didn't" bring it in. He didn't anoint Himself and the only way that can be fulfilled is when Israel anoints him as King over Israel as was done w/ David and Saul. He didn't fulfill all prophecy to cause it to be sealed. He only fulfilled the prophecies regarding "himself". Lk. 24:44.