The Deception of Tithing and Paid Pastors

[TitusTwoWife]

Tithing is in the old testament and was designed to feed the Levite tribe because that particular tribe wasn't to inherent any land but to serve in the priesthood. It was always food, never money.

The New Testament Church did not tithe, but gave freely to one another until no one had a need. The Lord Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles and disciples did not receive money for their ministry. They were entitled to food and clothing as they went, but Paul denied himself this right in order to not be a burden on the people he ministered to and taught those serving with him to do the same.

You cannot serve God and money. The church business model of the day creates a perverse incentive against pastors preaching the truth straight from the Bible.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I wanted to draw attention to this book because it is a Scriptural appeal to people to stop accepting the status quo in churches regarding tithing, pastors salaries, and false teaching.

You can read a free version of in the following link.

Loading…

www.christianmyths.org

This book is a heartfelt, fiery appeal to wake up about corruption in the churches handed down by traditions of men rather than the Word of God. I absolutely loved it. It cuts straight to the heart of things with plenty of Scripture but at 56 pages, it is a short read. It's also reasonably priced at about 7 US dollars by paperback or 3 dollars on Kindle.

My husband and I have been seeing great differences between church doctrine and bible doctrine. We call them "churchisms". This book is a wonderful resource that summarizes why we left the churches of today.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

You look like?

 

[seer]

View attachment 83301

I wanted to draw attention to this book because it is a Scriptural appeal to people to stop accepting the status quo in churches regarding tithing, pastors salaries, and false teaching.

You can read a free version of in the following link.

Loading…

www.christianmyths.org

This book is a heartfelt, fiery appeal to wake up about corruption in the churches handed down by traditions of men rather than the Word of God. I absolutely loved it. It cuts straight to the heart of things with plenty of Scripture but at 56 pages, it is a short read. It's also reasonably priced at about 7 US dollars by paperback or 3 dollars on Kindle.

My husband and I have been seeing great differences between church doctrine and bible doctrine. We call them "churchisms". This book is a wonderful resource that summarizes why we left the churches of today.

I don't have an issue with a Pastor alone earning a fair wage for a fair days work - do not muzzle the ox !!

 

[Lambano]

The New Testament Church did not tithe, but gave freely to one another until no one had a need.

If you look at Acts 2:45, they gave 100% and had a truly communist society. And when Ananias and Sapphira wouldn't go along with that, God struck 'em down (Acts 5:1-10). Now, stop complaining about 10%.

(No sense of humor?)

A long time ago, on the long-defunct Key Life Forums, one of the users' pet peeves was some churches' strict enforcement of the tithe. I've never seen it, but apparently such churches do exist, and a certain controlling now ex-church of his was one of the worst. He gave up on the organized church after that and met with some like-minded brothers and sisters regularly (a house church?) You see a lot of folks who gave up on the organized church on these forums.

Roswell, if you're out there, I miss you.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I don't have an issue with a Pastor alone earning a fair wage for a fair days work - do not muzzle the ox !!

I have no issue with a pastor earning a fair wage provided he work for it on his own time. Paul made tents and there are still pastors who work a regular job and do ministry on weekends. They can make as much money as they want.

I'm against pastors making money off of preaching. The ox needs food to survive, not a salary. Pastors are entitled to food, drink, and shelter if they travel according to Scripture. But where in Scripture did Jesus and the disciples take money for themselves? They didn't.

Money creates a bad motive against preaching truths that may offend people. Guarding people's souls requires you are willing to correct them and it's hard to do that when your livelihood come from their tithe.

 

[Behold]

There is certainly an iron-clad case that can be made against many "Ministers" who build a religious empire talking about "health and money".

But in this, we have to be careful that we dont throw out the "baby with the bathwater".

In other words.. There are those who fleece the sheep using Pulpits and Books and TV Stations.... and build large monuments to themselves, by basically stealing money from poor people and others by leading them to believe that God gives you blessings if you will just send in the money.

So, this is trying to "buy a blessing"......... And that is not possible.

What is possible is that "God loves a cheerful giver" and you can't outgive God, and when you give......of your money or time, then you get a greater return from God.

So, of course this truth becomes theologically rotten to the core, by those who "suppose that Gain is Godliness"..... as Paul teaches.

However, Paul also teaches that if you are Full Time In the Ministry........called by God, then you are to "live of the Gospel".
In other words, your income is to come from the Gospel Ministry that God has given you.
God finances His work, Reader.
Believe it.
Now, The Apostle Paul stated that He could totally live $$$$$$ of the Gospel, and its right as a Minister OF The Gospel......but He was a special case, and decided not to pursue it this way.
Yet, He would clearly lead Local Churches, that He started,

Corinthians
Ephesians
Galatians
Phillipians
Colossians

and more.. to give into His missionary work, and he praised those which did and encouraged those that needed to do more.

Now......One more thing for the "skeptic"..

Ask yourself.......>When Jesus was in His Ministry.....why does the BIBLE not say that He was working to support his 3 yrs of Ministry?
Its because He didnt work a JOB, to support His 3 yrs of ministry.
So, where did he get His money, ?????????? and How did He eat, and how did the Apostles Eat and buy what they needed, duing that 3 Yrs they were with Him during His Ministry. ?

A.) Donations and Gifts. = Love Offerings.

Reader there were others who walked with Jesus during His ministry.......some were women, and they all provided for Him and His Apostles, and for His Ministry.

Today, we have a "Tithes and Love Offerings'", setup.........whereby the Local Congregation gives into their "CHURCH".. and that means that some of the money pays for the Light Bill and the Heating and the Parking Lot Security..... and TOTAL upkeep of the Church, and it also pays the Full Time Pastor and the Full Time Staff.

 

[marks]

But where in Scripture did Jesus and the disciples take money for themselves? They didn't.

Luke 8:1-3 KJV
1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2) And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3) And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have no issue with a pastor earning a fair wage provided he work for it on his own time. Paul made tents and there are still pastors who work a regular job and do ministry on weekends. They can make as much money as they want.

1 Corinthians 9:16-18 KJV
16) For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18) What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

God required of Paul that he preach the Gospel. so Paul understood that in doing so, there was no reward, he was only doing what was required of him. So then Paul, to gain reward for his labor, preached at his own cost, not of necessity, but as his contribution to the Cause.

Much love!

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Luke 8:1-3 KJV
1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2) And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3) And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Much love!

This is not a tithed salary. They gave them food, a place to stay, and attended to the needs of them traveling. None of them received a salary, their dependence was on the hospitality of others when traveling.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

So, where did he get His money, ?????????? and How did He eat, and how did the Apostles Eat and buy what they needed, duing that 3 Yrs they were with Him during His Ministry. ?

This is what it means to live from the gospel: if you travel you can expect food, shelter, and perhaps clothing. Many of the the women would minister to them and prepare food and beds for the Lord and the disciples.

But there is no where in Scripture where ministers get salaries from ten percent of the income of those who listen to them.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Luke 8:1-3 KJV
1) And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2) And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3) And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.

Much love!

Good catch, though.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

2 Corinthians 9:7
King James Version
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

We give, not "of necessity" or "under compulsion" but cheerfully. Tithing is usually done under social compulsion. And give to who? To a pastor? Or to the least of these with urgent needs?

The pastor can work with his own hands like most people do. He cannot freely preach, exhort, and correct when the fear of tithe money drying up dogs him.

 

[Behold]

This is what it means to live from the gospel: if you travel you can expect food, shelter, and perhaps clothing.

You are defining what I do., and what i do, is different then the general Local Assembly work of a Pastor.
You are defining a Traveling Evangelist or a Missionary., as we are the "travelers".......as this is our Ministry.
And this was PAUL's Ministry.......>He was not a Pastor.
Missionaries for example, all want to start Churches, and then God plants a Pastor, and this is often one that is picked by the missionary who started the Church.
A Pastor is not this......they are given to a Congregation in '2026, and they are Planted there to serve, and the Church all Grows bigger, by God's Grace.
= More People giving, = more Money for the Ministry, ......and this often expands the ministry into a larger building or even into a 20,000 seater, and a TV Ministry, orphanage, soup kitchen......many types of "expansion".
God is in this........but He's not in all of these Huge Ministries........as some are built by a type of con artist who uses the "health and money" message to build Himself or Herself , a religious empire.

So, God definitely pays this Gospel worker = through their Local Members's giving.... and whatever definition you want to call it........you can use it.

Salary.
Love Gifts
Offering.

Many of the the women would minister to them and prepare food and beds for the Lord and the disciples.

Well, this is 2000 yrs later, isn't it, since your verses were written.
So, when is the last time you went to "a church in someone's house", and the women sat on one side and the men on the other?
Yet that is what the NT Teaches.....

So, its all been updated for the last 2000 yrs.. gradually.......and now we have Church Buildings and large parking lots, and these are living Local congregations who should give of their personal income that God gave them to support their Church that God gave them, and a part of this support, is to pay the Pastor.
This is not just "bible".........and Paul's Teaching....this is common sense

But there is no where in Scripture where ministers get salaries from ten percent of the income of those who listen to them.

I have no idea what "church" forces people to tithe.....but that is not scriptural.

Ive never been to a Church that "forces a 10 %" charge to be a part of the congregation""", .
My Church would never even consider anything like this.......so, i would avoid that one that does, and go to a real church that allows people to give, and it allows others to sit there and enjoy the services and the AC and the Music.. and the Blessings, and yet they never give, and never become a solid part of Local Congregation.
My Brother is a Pastor, (deceased) and He would refer to the "Sunday watchers" as "Pew flies"........that just sit there every Sunday, and take it all in, and then occasionally complain, and that is THEIR ministry.

Are these people "good for nothing"?........well, they are when it comes to being a part of a Living Local Body of Christ.

And reader, you are more then welcome to have your own opinion about that, and i'll have mine also.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

Well, this is 2000 yrs later, isn't it, since your verses were written.
So, when is the last time you went to "a church in someone's house", and the women sat on one side and the men on the other?
Yet that is what the NT Teaches.....

That sounds amazing and I would attend a house gathering just like that. Who knows, my husband and I may even start one.

I have no idea what "church" forces people to tithe.....but that is not scriptural.

They now have churches with entry fees. Even if churches don't mandate tithing, they will often guilt trip members for not tithing with verses like Malachi 3:10. The one about bringing the tithe into the storehouse always gets taken out of context to conclude that not tithing is "robbing God" .

 

[marks]

This is not a tithed salary.

I understand that.

They gave them food, a place to stay, and attended to the needs of them traveling. None of them received a salary, their dependence was on the hospitality of others when traveling.

These were various women who had money, and who traveled with Jesus to pay for His and His disciples' needs.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

That sounds amazing and I would attend a house gathering just like that. Who knows, my husband and I may even start one.

Ok,

If you and your husband are called by God to do that full time , then He'll bless it, full time.
And if you are not, and you start one anyway in your home, that leads to a building and a growing assembly, then the Devil will bless it, and in both cases, you'll end up being paid by the Congregation.

They now have churches with entry fees. Even if churches don't mandate tithing, they will often guilt trip members for not tithing with verses like Malachi 3:10. The one about bringing the tithe into the storehouse always gets taken out of context to conclude that not tithing is "robbing God" .

Well, there are also Churches in the "hills of old Kentuck", in the USA and similar who "handle venomous snakes" as a part of their "charasmatic show"......every Sunday.

And did you know that there are "Christian" forums, that allow every type of Heretic to "park and preach"?

You're on one of those right now... @TitusTwoWife.

So, if you only look for "what is wrong" you can always find it within Christianity, or what pretends to be...

 

[TitusTwoWife]

you'll end up being paid by the Congregation

We do not want to have that perverse incentive. The money's going back to those with urgent needs where it belongs.

So, if you only look for "what is wrong" you can always find it, within Christianity, or what pretends to be..

So let's do what is right. Freely we have received, freely we give. We shouldn't peddle the gospel or make merchandise of people but serve God in Spirit and in Truth. This can be done anywhere and daily. Where two or three are gathered, there Jesus is in the midst.

By loving God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, we fulfill what God wants and nullify the need for fancy buildings and a paid staff. We can have gathering where the focus is on edifying one another, not just listening to a sermon.

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 9:7
King James Version
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

We give, not "of necessity" or "under compulsion" but cheerfully. Tithing is usually done under social compulsion. And give to who? To a pastor? Or to the least of these with urgent needs?

The pastor can work with his own hands like most people do. He cannot freely preach, exhort, and correct when the fear of tithe money drying up dogs him.

To be clear . . . yes, the tithe is an old covenant requirement for Israel, nothing to do with us.

Just the same, the shepherd who spends their days serving the flock of God deserve to be taken care of, by those who receive that service, and those who serve well should receive "double honor", that is, that they have a good living provided for them in return for their work.

1 Timothy 5:16-18 KJV
16) If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may relieve them that are widows indeed.
17) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
18) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

We do not want to have that perverse incentive. The money's going back to those with urgent needs where it belongs.

I didnt say you had that "perverse incentive".
I said that if God didnt call you and your Hub into a full time ministry, and you build one, then the Devil will finance it.

And eating is a "urgent need".
The poor need to be fed every day , and so do full time Evangelists and Pastors, and Apostles, and Prophets, and Teachers. (and their families).

You seem to not be considering that God calls you for LIFE, and Full time......not part time.
So, full time is to be payed for by the Congregation that is being SERVED.

That is How God set it up.

So let's do what is right. Freely we have received, freely we give.

There is no greater need then a Gospel preacher............so, "freely give" to them for leading you out of Hell, and into a life that pleases God.
That's what a Pastor is doing up there... behind the Pulpit, and not just there.
He's directing Lives into God's Light, and away from the Devil's Darkness, and that is the greatest work of all, and it shall be financed, by God.
And the way that happens, is by God's People paying their Full Time Pastor.
He's the one that you call when your kid or your Husband is in the ER, and the Doc just told you that "there is no hope".
You call your 'Pastor", and He comes with His Wife and Prayer team, and this brings in the Hopel and lifts up FAITH.... and often the miracle, follow suit.

Never believe that a sincere and devoted full time Pastor of a local Church that has 50 or more people in it, is not worthy of his "salary".

We shouldn't peddle the gospel or make merchandise of people but serve God in Spirit and in Truth.

Your unfortunate statement has nothing to do with the work of a Full Time Pastor.
They are not " gospel peddling" for dollars...... they are leading, they are serving God who placed them there, and He didnt' tell them to do it for FREE, in most cases.
Check your NT, and you'll find that God never told Paul to "do it for free".....but Paul was of a certain TYPE who made this choice.
There have been many who undertook a certain type of "vow".

For example... St Francis... or Rich Mullens, the Contemporary Chrisitan Artist. (deceased).

This can be done anywhere and daily. Where two or three are gathered, there Jesus is in the midst.

Like this forum, supposedly.

By loving God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, we fulfill what God wants and nullify the need for fancy buildings and a paid staff.

You have your opinion about that, and its not really related to the larger percentage of Local Churches.
Your personal POV, that you are posteing...is mostly related to large ministries, mostly TV, and there are a lot of Fakirs found there......but not all of them.

We can have gathering where the focus is on edifying one another, not just listening to a sermon.

Sermon's started in the Old Testament, and Jesus gave many.

"Sermons" are a way for The Spiritually Enlightned by the Holy Spirit, to reveal for others what can be learned through a Sermon.

I can't imagine a Church Service, that is just a feel good meeting, where nothing is taught, by a Sermon.
But, that is what you would prefer.
Ok.