crowns, no crowns, Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13

[Davy]

All of the seven heads are not the beast-king. Just one of the seven heads will become the beast-king.

Again No.

The "seven heads" represent "seven mountains" per Revelation 17:9. There is another clue about the heads in that verse also...

Those "seven mountains" represent the geographic regions of the WHOLE EARTH. It lines up with Daniel 2:34-35 for when Jesus (Stone the builders rejected) returns and smites that beast on its feet of ten toes, and ALL the beast statue pieces fall down 'together'. Because ALL the beast pieces are together at the END, it is pointing to the beast kingdom control over the WHOLE EARTH. Thus the "seven mountains".

Also given as a clue in Rev.17:9 is that the symbolic "woman", the Babylon Harlot, sits upon the "seven heads".


One Of The Seven Heads:

One of the "seven heads", a.k.a. "seven mountains", suffered a "deadly wound" (Rev.13:3, 14). This is where one needs to recall the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture about the time of Lucifer's original rebellion when he drew one third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him. That happened in the 'old world', the 1st world earth age before this 2nd world age we are now in.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That beast kingdom of old which Lucifer first rebelled with had only "seven crowns" instead of ten like the one in Rev.13 for the END is to have.

One of those "seven heads" (mountains) suffered a deadly wound at Lucifer's original rebellion. If one does not know about the 1st earth age when Lucifer was originally created 'perfect in his ways' like God said in Ezekiel 28, then they will not grasp that Lucifer had setup a previous beast kingdom on earth when he drew those third of angels into rebellion with him.

This coming Rev.13:1 beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and TEN crowns, for the END of this world, will actually be the devil's SECOND ATTEMPT at playing God on earth. The first time was a time of angelic existence upon the earth.

Well, that's probably too much info to consider at this point. Many miss the fact that the beast of Rev.12:3 had only "seven crowns" instead of ten like the one of Rev.13 is to have. I believe only in our times has Christ opened that up to us, even though many brethren still miss reading it.

So... when Satan comes at the END of this world in place of Messiah, his setting up the Rev.13 beast kingdom and rule from Jerusalem will represent the "deadly wound" being healed.

 

[Douggg]

Again No.

The "seven heads" represent "seven mountains" per Revelation 17:9. There is another clue about the heads in that verse also...

Those "seven mountains" represent the geographic regions of the WHOLE EARTH. It lines up with Daniel 2:34-35 for when Jesus (Stone the builders rejected) returns and smites that beast on its feet of ten toes, and ALL the beast statue pieces fall down 'together'. Because ALL the beast pieces are together at the END, it is pointing to the beast kingdom control over the WHOLE EARTH. Thus the "seven mountains".

Also given as a clue in Rev.17:9 is that the symbolic "woman", the Babylon Harlot, sits upon the "seven heads".


One Of The Seven Heads:

One of the "seven heads", a.k.a. "seven mountains", suffered a "deadly wound" (Rev.13:3, 14). This is where one needs to recall the Revelation 12:3-4 Scripture about the time of Lucifer's original rebellion when he drew one third of the angels ("stars") into rebellion with him. That happened in the 'old world', the 1st world earth age before this 2nd world age we are now in.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That beast kingdom of old which Lucifer first rebelled with had only "seven crowns" instead of ten like the one in Rev.13 for the END is to have.

One of those "seven heads" (mountains) suffered a deadly wound at Lucifer's original rebellion. If one does not know about the 1st earth age when Lucifer was originally created 'perfect in his ways' like God said in Ezekiel 28, then they will not grasp that Lucifer had setup a previous beast kingdom on earth when he drew those third of angels into rebellion with him.

This coming Rev.13:1 beast system of ten horns, seven heads, and TEN crowns, for the END of this world, will actually be the devil's SECOND ATTEMPT at playing God on earth. The first time was a time of angelic existence upon the earth.

Well, that's probably too much info to consider at this point. Many miss the fact that the beast of Rev.12:3 had only "seven crowns" instead of ten like the one of Rev.13 is to have. I believe only in our times has Christ opened that up to us, even though many brethren still miss reading it.

So... when Satan comes at the END of this world in place of Messiah, his setting up the Rev.13 beast kingdom and rule from Jerusalem will represent the "deadly wound" being healed.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[William Barton]

>The noun is neuter in the Greek manuscript>

Yes, "beast" (Greek θηριον) is neuter. But this is a metaphor, comparing this man to a beast/animal.

He is a vicious person with no concern for human life. He will be thrown into hell, along with Satan (Revelation 19:20, 20:1-3).

"Number of a man" (Revelation 13:28) is a bit enigmatic. Man was created on day six (Genesis 1:24-30). Seven is the number of perfection, and six is one short of seven.

 

[ewq1938]

We were talking about the "him" in Revelation 13:4-8.

I just went over to the biblehub.com site and looked through the translations over there. And took a look at Revelation 13:6.

Some of the translations had "it" instead of "he". So there is a difference.

I am sticking with the kjv.

Stick to manuscripts written in Greek, not to any English translation. The noun "beast" in the manuscripts is a neuter noun making it an it. Biblehub will show that as well.

 

[ewq1938]

How much clearer can this verse be ? The beast in Revelation 13 that will be worshiped will be a literal man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

That's speaking of the FP beast, not the kingdom beast.

Rev 13:16 And he (the False Prophet beast) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast (the False Prophet beast), or the number of his (the False Prophet beast) name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast (the False Prophet beast): for it is the number of a man (the False Prophet beast); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Douggg]

That's speaking of the FP beast, not the kingdom beast.

Rev 13:16 And he (the False Prophet beast) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast (the False Prophet beast), or the number of his (the False Prophet beast) name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast (the False Prophet beast): for it is the number of a man (the False Prophet beast); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

No, Revelation 13:17 is the mark, name, number, of the beast king. Not the beast kingdom, nor the false prophet.

The false prophet is the one who causes everyone to take the mark, or name, or number of the beast-king's name.

The number of the beast king is the number of a man (the beast king).

The beast-king is the mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13:3.

 

[ewq1938]

No, Revelation 13:17 is the mark, name, number, of the beast king. Not the beast kingdom, nor the false prophet.

The false prophet is the one who causes everyone to take the mark, or name, or number of the beast-king's name.

No, the FP is the beast king and the mark is related to his name.

The number of the beast king is the number of a man (the beast king).

The beast-king is the mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13:3.

No, it is a mountain that receives the symbolic wound and heals, not a person.

 

[Douggg]

No, the FP is the beast king and the mark is related to his name.

The false prophet is not any sort of king. The false prophet is who will instigate the requirement that everyone take the mark, name, or number of the name of the beast king in order to buy or sell. Revelation 13:16-17.

No, it is a mountain that receives the symbolic wound and heals, not a person.

A mountain does not die and come back to life.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How much clearer can this verse be ? The beast in Revelation 13 that will be worshiped will be a literal man.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

LOL. I know you don't care what the original Greek manuscript says, but the Greek word can refer to an individual person or to many people or to mankind in general. So, just because it is translated there as "a man" does not settle the debate. The number of the beast is the number of mankind because 666 represents the fact that all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. The number 7 is known to be a number used to symbolically represent completeness and perfection, so it's a number associated with God/Christ. It's quite possible that the number is 666 because you could see God's number as being 777 to represent the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Also, there is this verse...

Daniel 7:23 “Thus he said: ‘The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces.

So, a prophetic beast can represent a kingdom and not just an individual human. So, this is not as clear as you imagine.

 

[Davy]

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

....

Your chart still does not work. Revelation 17 reveals the "seven heads" are "seven mountains", NOT kings.

The "ten horns" represent "ten kings", and these ten kings are NOT the beast kings of past history.

The historical beast kings John mentions are most likely from these past empires:
1. Babylon empire (Nebuchadnezzar)
2. Assyrian empire (Sargon I)
3. Medo-Persia empire (Cyrus the Great)
4. Grecia (Alexander)
5. Roman empire (Augustus was first emperor)
6. Domitian - Roman emperor during the days of Apostle John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. beast king for the END of this world; the Antichrist; false-Messiah; Satan.
8. beast king after Christ's "thousand years" reign, Satan loosed from his pit prison to go tempt the unsaved nations that go through Christ's future Millennial reign.

 

[William Barton]

Douggg noted:
>The beast-king is then mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13>

The beast receives a mortal wound, yet survives, which further enhances his reputation (Revelation 13:3).

His reputation dwindles when he takes a seat in the temple, professing to be God incarnate (2Thessalonians 2:4).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Spiritual Israelite noted:
>The beast-king is the mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13>

I never said that. Douggg did. Please edit your post to reflect this.

 

[Douggg]

Your chart still does not work. Revelation 17 reveals the "seven heads" are "seven mountains", NOT kings.

The seven heads represent 7 mountains and 7 kings.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The five fallen and one is - are listed by name in the left column. The other not yet come will be the little horn person in the middle column.

 

[Douggg]

Douggy noted:
>The beast-king is then mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13>

The beast receives a mortal wound, yet survives, which further enhances his reputation (Revelation 13:3).

His reputation dwindles when he takes a seat in the temple, professing to be God incarnate (2Thessalonians 2:4).

William,

Here is a chart of the 5 stages that person will go through. The words in blue match what the bible calls him.

 

[Davy]

The seven heads represent 7 mountains and 7 kings.

No, the Rev.17 Scripture does not add... the idea of 7 kings onto that "seven mountains". The kings described in Rev.17:10-11 are not reigning together at the same time like the later "ten kings" are.

 

[ewq1938]

The false prophet is not any sort of king. The false prophet is who will instigate the requirement that everyone take the mark, name, or number of the name of the beast king in order to buy or sell. Revelation 13:16-17.

The Fp is the beast king. There is no one else asdide from ten kings/horns and satan. The Fp is the one also known as the AC.

A mountain does not die and come back to life.

It can symbolically but Rev 13 does nort describe anyone dying and coming back to life. It only speaks of a wound that would cause death but it heals so death is avoided.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

No death and no resurrection in that verse.

 

[ewq1938]

The seven heads represent 7 mountains and 7 kings.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The heads and kings are separate things. The beast rises and has all 7 heads through the time it's in power. The 7 kings are not in power at the same time.

Mountains are not symbolic for kings in Rev either.

 

[Douggg]

The beast rises and has all 7 heads through the time it's in power. The 7 kings are not in power at the same time.

That's the whole point of understanding when there are crowns and no crowns on the seven heads and ten horns.

 

[Douggg]

No, the Rev.17 Scripture does not add... the idea of 7 kings onto that "seven mountains". The kings described in Rev.17:10-11 are not reigning together at the same time like the later "ten kings" are.

The 7 heads represent 7 mountains where the woman sits. Rome.

The 7 heads also represent 7 kings associated with Rome. The 7 kings are sequential, not reigning reigning together at the same time.

 

[Douggg]

No death and no resurrection in that verse.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The revealed man of sin will be assassinated for his act of sitting in the temple claiming to be God in 2Thessalonians2:4..

Ezekiel 28:7Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.