Do we have free will or are we predestined?

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?


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Armour of God

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

I think there are bible verses that support both free will and predestination but I'll let you guys give your opinions and present the bible verses that support it
 

Behold

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Reader,

Are you going to decide what you will have to eat today, ???? and where you will go, ???? and what you will be doing every minute of every hour of every day, for the rest of your life,????? while you are conscious and awake ????.

So, apparently you have free will as you'll be making all those CHOICES...

Reader, "Free Will" is the God given : power of CHOICE.

Now the wrong question is......Does God predestine you to become a Christian, and you have no choice.........no free will to decide?

Well, the Hyper Calvinists will tell you that God caused you to believe and you had no choice.
The Crazy Calvinist's will tell you that you are "born again in sin, to be able to believe".......In other words, they teach the incredible satanic teaching that because you can't believe, God has to give you the "new Birth"......so that now being born again, you can finally give God your Faith in Christ, that He causes you to have.
So, that teaching is from the pit of Hell, as its teaching that God gives you the New Birth, so that you can believe, BEFORE you are forgiven your sin..

So..... of course you had and have a choice to believe or not, as if you had no choice, then God could not rightly or truthfully hold you accountable for NOT BELIEVING IN CHRIST.

Notice this verse.........John 3:36.

See that verse, ??? and you might want to research it...........as that verse is teaching that the DAMNED... are those who have willingly chosen to reject Christ, and they are still alive.....yet they are already under God's Damnation.
And this can be changed........they dont have to die "damned"....... and in fact "God so loved the world that He gave Jesus" for THEM..........for EVERYONE.........who will choose (Free Will) to believe in Christ.

Now the deceived and deluded and mentally enslaved Hyper Calvinist, will tell you that if you become a Christian its only because God caused it........or as they falsely teach .......you were "predestined to believe" but that is not scripturally true, and in fact no verse in a NT, teaches that nonsense.


My advice is to never become one of those, "election Obsessed nuts" (Calvinists).... as they are a NT denying CULT.
And if you fall prey to their Twisted Theological Teaching, then it's unlikely that you'll ever find your way OUT of "Calvinism".
Its a very very strong mental chain, built on twisting and rewriting verses, and once it has your mind........ its almost impossible to break free from this horrible Theological bondage.

And how do you know that a Calvinist or a Hyper-Calvinist is a cult member, is a deceiver?

A.) Its because Christians Lead you to Christ and a CALVINIST tries to lead you to CALVIN......as that is their ministry, and its not of God.

Therefore avoid all Calvinists and Hyper-Calvinists, and utterly deny and reject all Hyper Calvinists and all so called "churches" that teach this incredible theological Rot.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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Ephesians 1:4-5: "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will".
Ephesians 1:11: "In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will".
Romans 8:29-30: "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

CHOSEN , ELECT are key doctrines.

The Author of our faith means you did not write your story - He did. That said, significant events and people were orchestrated by God that led up to your salvation/ decision. There are lots of insignificant acts that would fall into the realm of your "free will" that do not effect God's overall perfect plan.

You have to consider that all history, every event is factored into His plan. Prophecy could not unfold exactly like He said it would if man 's free will could interfere somehow.
Our destiny is decided and God guides us along and allows us to participate in His plan. Obviously we are sinners and freely do that don't we. We freely disobey. But He factors all our blunders into our story. All the good stuff is tested with fire - that goes on onto eternity. All the junk is burned up and ultimately left behind.
 
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Taken

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?

We have FREEWILL …
However ..
God Already Knows what we will choose.

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Both. It is the MAKING of a contractual Agreement (covenant), whereby Both must Agree.

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

FREEWILL of man.
God already Knows your Chose…
God has Already Prepared… well Known places for them with or without Him.

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

* Humans are conceived and naturally born in Sin.
Ie. (No Belief in God)
* Humans who continue to live without God, live IN Sin ( no belief in God )
* Humans at different paces/ages, Freely choose to Hear, Learn About God, or Not.
* Humans at different paces/ ages Freely choose to Believe in God, or Not.
* Humans at different paces, ages Freely Choose to be with God, (a trial of sorts) seeing IF they Like the Results, called Believing and Tasting.
* Humans at different paces, ages Freely Choose to be With God Forever, by Freely MAKING a Forever Confession, Commitment (According to His Order and Way) unto Him, by, through, of Christ Jesus, or Not.


Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Ultimately FREEWILL … but do think, dad, mom, even God, can tug those heart-strings to consider a Job, that would be well suited for an individual.

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

Regarding FOOD, Eat whatever you like, or that is set before you…
And I would Say EATING Gods Word is Mandatory, for Belief, and Belief is Mandatory for Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Lambano

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Yea that's what I meant by other.
Can you please elaborate
The Bible seems to teach both God's sovereignty and Man's responsibility. I have a low tolerance for cognitive dissonance (the ability to retain two mutually contradictory concepts as true) these days. So don't ask me how it works.


Compatibilism offers a solution to the free will problem, which concerns a disputed incompatibility between free will and determinism. Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is compatible with determinism. Because free will is typically taken to be a necessary condition of moral responsibility, compatibilism is sometimes expressed as a thesis about the compatibility between moral responsibility and determinism.
 
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Riven

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I'm in no position to quote scripture, so I'll just go ahead and give my opinion. I don't see how there can be a divine plan for someone's life, let alone the world/ universe, and freewill at the same time.

At what point can I make a decision in my life that contradicts the divine plan? If I can, it's not much of a plan. If I can't, then I don't really have freewill. :IDK:
 
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Armour of God

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I'm in no position to quote scripture, so I'll just go ahead and give my opinion. I don't see how there can be a divine plan for someone's life, let alone the world/ universe, and freewill at the same time.

At what point can I make a decision in my life that contradicts the divine plan? If I can, it's not much of a plan. If I can't, then I don't really have freewill. :IDK:

I understand your confusion. I'm the same.

Are we like NPCs in a computer simulation? Acting upon algorithms? We wouldn't know if we were or not.
Or do we genuinely have a choice?
It feels like we have a choice.

But the bible does talk about predestination, someone above quoted a few verses.

God is supposed to be omniscient, all knowing. He supposed to know what your going to do before you do it.
So if He knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit then why did He put the tree there in the first place?

Some say that we do have both free will and that predestination exists. Saying that foreknowledge doesn't mean we don't have free will. But I don't understand it. If God already knows what's going to happen to me then that doesn't sound like free will.

I just accept that I don't understand everything, many things are a mystery to my limited human brain.
 
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Riven

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I understand your confusion. I'm the same.

Are we like NPCs in a computer simulation? Acting upon algorithms? We wouldn't know if we were or not.
Or do we genuinely have a choice?
It feels like we have a choice.
If it's a simulation, which is not impossible, then we probably do have a choice.

But the bible does talk about predestination, someone above quoted a few verses.

God is supposed to be omniscient, all knowing. He supposed to know what your going to do before you do it.
So if He knew Adam and Eve would eat the forbidden fruit then why did He put the tree there in the first place?
If we look at God's actions after he finds out Adam and Eve ate from the tree, it would suggest He didn't have foreknowledge of their decision. But how could God not have foreknowledge of what they would do and still be God?

Some say that we do have both free will and that predestination exists. Saying that foreknowledge doesn't mean we don't have free will. But I don't understand it. If God already knows what's going to happen to me then that doesn't sound like free will.
The argument is that foreknowledge doesn't mean you don't have a choice. I respectfully disagree with this position. I must be able to make an unforeseen choice in order for it to actually be a choice.

I just accept that I don't understand everything, many things are a mystery to my limited human brain.
We are indeed limited. God is a complex topic that also involves time itself. If God exists outside of time, then we cannot understand the way things work with him. Our choices are, at least from our perspective, based on time being a constant that never changes.
 
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quietthinker

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?​

Predestined to choose our free will in exercising appreciation for the gift given us.....or exercising our free will doing despite to the spirit of grace, trampling the Son of God underfoot.
 

Debp

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Lambano

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We are indeed limited. God is a complex topic that also involves time itself. If God exists outside of time, then we cannot understand the way things work with him. Our choices are, at least from our perspective, based on time being a constant that never changes.
I've heard similar arguments from a Christian teacher I respect. If God exists outside of space and time (which He created), then He knows every free choice every free creature will ever make freely make and how those choices interact. And if He doesn't happen to like the outcome, He can act inside of space-time to change the conditions so that His creatures will freely make different choices. (God's a player too.) It's a complex iterative process that converges on God getting what God wants. God is sovereign; Man is free and morally responsible.

Is it truly free? I don't know.

...

I spent a lot of my youth reading science fiction stories, of which time-travel paradoxes were a common theme. Two of the most memorable were Isaac Asimov's The End of Eternity and Robert Heinlein's By His Bootstraps, which touch upon this theme. I recommend them. Two of the best sci-fi writers of the last century.
 
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Mathētria

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

I think there are bible verses that support both free will and predestination [...]

Much ink has been spilled by many theologians down the ages over this conundrum of predestination. The perplexity of this mystery as it relates to salvation has, not surprisingly, given rise to the heresy of "predestinarianism", of which Calvinism is one of its chief advocates. This heretical understanding of Paul's teaching concerning "those whom [God] has predestined [...]" is based on two fundamental errors:
  • the absolute will of God as the sole cause of the salvation or damnation of the individual, regardless of his merits or demerits;
  • as to the elect, it denies the freedom of the will under the influence of efficacious grace and puts the reprobate under the necessity of committing sin because of the absence of grace.
The following will hopefully be a needed correction of the errors it has occasioned.

In this transcript dated October 23, 1948, Jesus—according to Maria Valtorta—explained free will, as well as predestination to grace and glory. I’ve quoted His words from The Little Notebooks:

All men without exception are predestined to grace, since I died for all.

Those who remain faithful—at least to the natural law of the Good—are predestined to glory. Thus at the end of the ages, each one who has lived as a just man, will have his reward.

God knows from eternity those who are destined for glory before they are born into life—that is, "predestined". Pay attention, then, for here is the point for understanding with justice the justice of God.

There are those who are predestined, certainly. And God knows them before time [even] exists for them. But they are not predestined because God, with evident injustice, gives them every means to become glorious, and by every means prevents any traps for them of the demon, of the world, and of the flesh. No. God gives them what He gives to all. But they use the gifts of God with justice, and hence they win the future and eternal glory by their [own] free will.

God knows that they will reach this eternal glory. But they do not know it, nor does God tell them in any way. Extraordinary gifts are not—of themselves—a sure sign of glory: they are a more severe means than others to test the spirit of a man in his will, virtue, and fidelity to God and to His Law. God knows. He rejoices in anticipation to know that this creature will reach glory; just as He suffers in anticipation to know that this other creature will, voluntarily, reach damnation.

But in no way does He intervene to force the free choice of any creature so that it may arrive where God wants all to arrive: in Heaven.

Certainly the creature's correspondence with Divine help increases its capacity to will. Because God all the more pours Himself out, as a man loves Him in truth: that is, with a charity of actions, and not [just] of words.

And again: certainly, the more a man lives as a just man, the more God also communicates with and manifests Himself to him: an anticipation of that knowledge of God which is the bliss of the saints in Heaven; and from this knowledge comes an increase of the capacity to want [will] to be perfect. But again and always, man is free with his will, and, if after having already reached perfection, one disavows the good he has practiced up till then, and sells himself to the Evil One: God would leave him free to do it. There would be no merit if there were coercion.

To conclude: God knows—from eternity—those who are the future eternal inhabitants of Heaven. But man, with his free will, must want [will] to reach Heaven by using well the supernatural helps which the Eternal Father gives to each of His creatures. And this [must he do] even to his last breath—whatever the extraordinary gifts he has received, and [whatever] the degrees of perfection he has reached.

Remember: no one has ever truly arrived, until his "walk" is finished. That is, no one is sure of having merited glory, until his time has ended, and immortality has begun.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
 
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Riven

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Jesus knew that Judas would betray him. This begs the question, did Judas ever have a choice?
 
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Wick Stick

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Do we have free will or are we predestined?

Does God choose us or do we choose God?

Is salvation predestined or is it free will?

Are we predestined to sin or is it free will?

Are our jobs predestined or was it free will?

Is what we eat predestined or is it free will?

I think there are bible verses that support both free will and predestination but I'll let you guys give your opinions and present the bible verses that support it
Israel is predestined. The church is predestined. The Body of Christ is predestined.

God has issued an invitation to join that group. We therefore have a choice, one that God in His sovereignty has placed there. Our will isn't entirely free, but it operates within the constraints that God has placed there.
 
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