The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.

[William Barton]

How will God identify Israel? What will His identification criteria be?

2Timothy 2:19.

o All knowing
o. All seeing
o. All powerful

 

[Douggg]

See Revelation 19:11-20:6 for the return of Jesus with his angels ("armies of heaven").

IMO this will be on the Day of Trumpets (Yom Kippur). See Isaiah 59:20, "the redeemer shall come to Zion."

Consider also the seven Jewish holidays, celebrating the Messiah:

o Passover (slain as a lamb) Isaiah 53:7
o Unleavened bread (sinless body in tomb) Isaiah 53:9
o First fruits (first fruits from the grave) Psalm 16:10
o Pentecost (sends the Spirit) Joel 2:28
o Trumpets (returns in judgment) Daniel 7:13
o Atonement (atones for Israel) Isaiah 59:20
o Booths (millennial reign) Psalm 72:11

Zechariah 8 is also about Jesus's return with the armies of heaven. In Zechariah 8, Jesus is referred to as the "Lord of hosts". The Hebrew word for hosts means "armies" and "multitudes".

 

[covenantee]

God will put a new heart within them as promised. (Ez. 36: 26.

God's promises have never been dependent upon ethnicity.

But ever dependent upon faithfulness and obedience to Him, His Son, and His Covenants, Old and New.

True then, now, and always.

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Matthew 26 YLT
27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

 

[covenantee]

But Jesus was pointing to JEWS.

These were JEWS. Did Jesus ever point to them doing the will of His Father in heaven?

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God will put a new heart within them as promised. (Ez. 36: 26.

Prophecy:

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Fulfillment:

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But Jesus was pointing to JEWS.

Not just Jews. And not unbelieving Jews. Do Gentile believers not do the will of God the Father? Of course they do. He was talking about ANYONE who does the will of the Father as being His mother, brothers and sisters. Why do you keep trying to divide God's people when scripture repeatedly teaches that Jew and Gentile believers have been brought together by the blood of Christ as "one new man" and "one body" in "the temple of God"?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jay, the start of the 1,000 years of Satan being imprisoned in the Bottomless pit in Revelation 20:1-3 is the day that Jesus returns in Revelation 19.

Wrong again.


Revelation 20:1–3 was fulfilled through Christ's victory at the Cross. By His death, burial, and resurrection, Jesus bound Satan, limiting his ability to deceive the nations as he had before, so that the Gospel could go forth to all peoples and Christ could build His Church.


Jesus Himself spoke of binding the strong man before plundering his house (Matthew 12:29). Through the Cross, Christ disarmed the powers of darkness and triumphed over them (Colossians 2:15). He also declared that the ruler of this world would be cast out (John 12:31–32).


Therefore, the binding of Satan in Revelation 20:1–3 is not a future event but began with Christ's first coming and redemptive work. During this present age, the Gospel is advancing among all nations, and Christ is building His Church (Matthew 16:18). This present Gospel age is the Millennium—the reign of Christ from heaven with His saints until His return.

Jesus's return and Satan being cast into the Bottomless pit takes place on the same day.

Wrong again.

Christ's Second Coming occurs after the Millennium is complete, when Satan is finally released for a short time, defeated, and cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:7–10). Immediately afterward comes the general resurrection, the final judgment, and the eternal state (Revelation 20:11–15).

Scripture does not teach a future earthly 1,000-year kingdom after Christ returns. Rather, the Millennium is the present reign of Christ, during which He is gathering His people from all nations through the Gospel. When Christ returns, there is no additional millennial age to follow—only the resurrection, judgment, and the new heavens and new earth (John 5:28–29; 1 Corinthians 15:23–26; 2 Peter 3:10–13).

The Bible presents Christ's return, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment, and the destruction of Satan as occurring on the Last Day, not separated by another future 1,000-year earthly kingdom. (John 6:39–40, 44, 54; Revelation 20:11–15).

 

[Marilyn C]

God's promises have never been dependent upon ethnicity.

But ever dependent upon faithfulness and obedience to Him, His Son, and His Covenants, Old and New.

True then, now, and always.

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Exodus 12:48
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Leviticus 19:34
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

Leviticus 24:22
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.

Matthew 26 YLT
27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

So God didn`t make Israel for a reason?

 

[Marilyn C]

These were JEWS. Did Jesus ever point to them doing the will of His Father in heaven?

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Jesus was speaking to SPECIFIC people.

 

[Marilyn C]

Prophecy:

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.

Fulfillment:

Acts 2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.

So, God made Israel for no reason?

 

[Marilyn C]

Not just Jews. And not unbelieving Jews. Do Gentile believers not do the will of God the Father? Of course they do. He was talking about ANYONE who does the will of the Father as being His mother, brothers and sisters. Why do you keep trying to divide God's people when scripture repeatedly teaches that Jew and Gentile believers have been brought together by the blood of Christ as "one new man" and "one body" in "the temple of God"?

Yes, those in the Body of Christ are one people. However, God made the earthly nation of Israel for a purpose.

 

[covenantee]

Jesus was speaking to SPECIFIC people.

Please answer the question.

 

[covenantee]

So God didn`t make Israel for a reason?

Do you think that faithfulness and obedience are not reasons?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, those in the Body of Christ are one people. However, God made the earthly nation of Israel for a purpose.

Yes, God established national Israel for a purpose—to be His covenant congregation and witness in the Old Testament. But the kingdom was taken from unbelieving Israel and given to a people bearing its fruits, which is the New Testament congregation (Matthew 21:43). The true Israel of God is not defined by ethnicity or physical nation, but by faith (Romans 2:28–29; Galatians 3:29; 6:16).

Spiritual Israel did not cease; it continued from the Old Testament congregation into the New Testament Church, united in Christ. The problem is that you're looking for end-time fulfillments in the modern nation of Israel when many of those promises find their fulfillment in God's covenant people through Christ. Like I said to many people here often, they are looking at the wrong Israel.

 

[Marilyn C]

These were JEWS. Did Jesus ever point to them doing the will of His Father in heaven?

Matthew 23
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

They are specific people NOT all of Israel.

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, God established national Israel for a purpose—to be His covenant congregation and witness in the Old Testament. But the kingdom was taken from unbelieving Israel and given to a people bearing its fruits, which is the New Testament congregation (Matthew 21:43). The true Israel of God is not defined by ethnicity or physical nation, but by faith (Romans 2:28–29; Galatians 3:29; 6:16).

Spiritual Israel did not cease; it continued from the Old Testament congregation into the New Testament Church, united in Christ. The problem is that you're looking for end-time fulfillments in the modern nation of Israel when many of those promises find their fulfillment in God's covenant people through Christ. Like I said to many people here often, they are looking at the wrong Israel.

So why did God make the nation of Israel, make sure they didn`t intermarry and give them many promises that Jesus came to confirm?

 

[TribulationSigns]

So why did God make the nation of Israel, make sure they didn`t intermarry and give them many promises that Jesus came to confirm?

Because God chose Israel to preserve the covenant line through which the Messiah would come into the world (Romans 9:4–5). Their separation from the nations was to protect them from idolatry and maintain that covenant purpose until Christ first came

But the promises were never an end in themselves—they pointed to Christ. That's why Paul says, "the promises were made to Abraham and to his seed... which is Christ" (Galatians 3:16). Jesus came to confirm the promises made to the fathers (Romans 15:8), and in Him believing Jews and Gentiles become one people of God (Ephesians 2:11–22). Not about saving future nation of Israel at all! We are Israel right now, in Christ.

So yes, national Israel had a God-given purpose. The question is whether those promises terminate in ethnic Israel, or whether they find their fulfillment in Christ and His people. The New Testament consistently points to the latter.

Selah!

 

[covenantee]

They are specific people NOT all of Israel.

Of course. I said "these". That's specific. Specific Jews who did not do the will of Jesus' Father in heaven. Specific Jews whose father was the devil, and who were bound for hell.

Their Jewish ethnicity would not save them, and never will.

 

[Marilyn C]

Because God chose Israel to preserve the covenant line through which the Messiah would come into the world (Romans 9:4–5). Their separation from the nations was to protect them from idolatry and maintain that covenant purpose until Christ first came

But the promises were never an end in themselves—they pointed to Christ. That's why Paul says, "the promises were made to Abraham and to his seed... which is Christ" (Galatians 3:16). Jesus came to confirm the promises made to the fathers (Romans 15:8), and in Him believing Jews and Gentiles become one people of God (Ephesians 2:11–22). Not about saving future nation of Israel at all! We are Israel right now, in Christ.

So yes, national Israel had a God-given purpose. The question is whether those promises terminate in ethnic Israel, or whether they find their fulfillment in Christ and His people. The New Testament consistently points to the latter.

Selah!

So, are you saying that Jesus had to be a Jew and then God made Him Head of the Body which has neither Jew nor Gentile?

 

[TribulationSigns]

So, are you saying that Jesus had to be a Jew and then God made Him Head of the Body which has neither Jew nor Gentile?

Yes. Jesus had to come as a Jew because the Messiah was promised through Abraham, Judah, and David (Romans 9:4–5; Hebrews 7:14). He came to fulfill God's promises to Israel (Romans 15:8). Hint, Hint: Not nation Israel but Covenant Israel!

But after accomplishing redemption, He created "one new man" from both Jews and Gentiles (Ephesians 2:14–16). That's why in Christ "there is neither Jew nor Greek" (Galatians 3:28), and believers are one body under one Head, Jesus Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23).

So Christ's Jewish lineage was essential to fulfill prophecy to begin with, but His kingdom is not limited to ethnic Jews or nation Israel. He is the Head of a redeemed people drawn from every nation, tribe, and tongue, including the Jews of the Old Testament!