Christian Nationalism

[Nancy]

When did this change? The "church" is just the world wrapped in churchy clothing.

"Christianity Thrives when it challenges Empire. It becomes corrupted when it tries to become one."

"Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor "protecting" it.
Just a crucified Savior and a handful of ordinary people convinced that loving their enemies, caring for the forgotten, sharing what they had, and refusing to worship Caesar could change the world.
And somehow, it did.
The Church grew while it was culturally powerless because its power looked completely different from Rome’s.
Rome conquered people.
Christians served them.
Rome celebrated status.
Christians called slaves and rulers brothers and sisters.
Rome abandoned the sick and unwanted.
Christians carried them home.
Then Christianity gained access to the palace.
Constantine legalized and favored the faith. Within decades, Christianity became the official religion of the empire.
Suddenly, the persecuted Church had political influence.
Then political privilege.
Then political power.
And eventually, in some places, the followers of Jesus began persecuting others.
From religious wars and inquisitions to forced conversions, colonial conquests, and defenses of slavery, Christian history contains some deeply embarrassing chapters.
Not because Jesus failed.
Because Christians repeatedly traded His way for Caesar’s.
We took a faith built on carrying a cross and used it to decorate thrones.
That should make us pause today.
When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.
We have seen this movie before.
And somehow we keep buying tickets to a Christianity that looks nothing like Jesus.
Jesus never asked to become the mascot of an empire.
He called us to become servants in His Kingdom.
Christianity thrives when it offers the world an alternative to domination... not when it baptizes domination and calls it Christlike.
The Church is most powerful
when it looks like Jesus.
And Jesus conquered the world
from a cross.
Not a throne."
#ChristianNationalism

 

[markalan]

When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.

I think the word "obsessed" is an exaggeration in the current world setting. Christianity is losing power, not gaining it.

Christianity should be an influence for good, and this can be exhibited at the personal level, the church level, and the political level.

The term "Christian nationalism" is being used as a pejorative in some sectors of society in an attempt to discredit those who seek to implement government policies that reflect traditional Biblical values.

There is a growing array of ideologies that seek to exert influence on government and society, to the point of compulsory compliance. Failing to support what the Bible tells us is right, is to fail in in our responsibility as Christians, whatever sphere we are involved with.

 

[SavedInHim]

When did this change? The "church" is just the world wrapped in churchy clothing.

"Christianity Thrives when it challenges Empire. It becomes corrupted when it tries to become one."

"Christianity began with no army, no political party, no courts, no national flag, and no emperor "protecting" it.
Just a crucified Savior and a handful of ordinary people convinced that loving their enemies, caring for the forgotten, sharing what they had, and refusing to worship Caesar could change the world.
And somehow, it did.
The Church grew while it was culturally powerless because its power looked completely different from Rome’s.
Rome conquered people.
Christians served them.
Rome celebrated status.
Christians called slaves and rulers brothers and sisters.
Rome abandoned the sick and unwanted.
Christians carried them home.
Then Christianity gained access to the palace.
Constantine legalized and favored the faith. Within decades, Christianity became the official religion of the empire.
Suddenly, the persecuted Church had political influence.
Then political privilege.
Then political power.
And eventually, in some places, the followers of Jesus began persecuting others.
From religious wars and inquisitions to forced conversions, colonial conquests, and defenses of slavery, Christian history contains some deeply embarrassing chapters.
Not because Jesus failed.
Because Christians repeatedly traded His way for Caesar’s.
We took a faith built on carrying a cross and used it to decorate thrones.
That should make us pause today.
When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.
We have seen this movie before.
And somehow we keep buying tickets to a Christianity that looks nothing like Jesus.
Jesus never asked to become the mascot of an empire.
He called us to become servants in His Kingdom.
Christianity thrives when it offers the world an alternative to domination... not when it baptizes domination and calls it Christlike.
The Church is most powerful
when it looks like Jesus.
And Jesus conquered the world
from a cross.
Not a throne."
#ChristianNationalism

The biggest mistake Christian nationalists have made is in believing the Kingdom can be delivered through political power. God's Spirit has always shown His strength through man's weakness. If Christianity is waning, it's because believers have stopped looking to God for help and have turned to the world.

 

[markalan]

The biggest mistake Christian nationalists have made is in believing the Kingdom can be delivered through political power. God's Spirit has always shown His strength through man's weakness. If Christianity is waning, it's because believers have stopped looking to God for help and have turned to the world.

Would you say that elected representatives who vote for policies that align with traditional Biblical teaching are "Christian nationalists"?

 

[Ziggy]

Would you say that elected representatives who vote for policies that align with traditional Biblical teaching are "Christian nationalists"?

You know what they say about sticks and stones?

And when the name Christian was a derogatory slur?

1Pe 4:14
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

A holy nation of Christians = Christian Nationalists

With or without elected representatives who vote for policies that may or may not be according to tradition,
but By the Word of God.

Hugs

 

[markalan]

I would be very interested to read about specific examples of "Christian nationalism" ... and which churches support these actions.

The Wikipedia article ("Christian nationalism in the United States") lists only these examples:

Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as Christmas as a national holiday, school prayer, singing "God Bless America", the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian cross on Good Friday.​

​

Do all those who are opposed to "Christian nationalism" support banning all these practices?

 

[Ziggy]

I would be very interested to read about specific examples of "Christian nationalism" ... and which churches support these actions.

The Wikipedia article ("Christian nationalism in the United States") lists only these examples:

Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as Christmas as a national holiday, school prayer, singing "God Bless America", the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian cross on Good Friday.​

​

Do all those who are opposed to "Christian nationalism" support banning all these practices?

Do you trust Wikepedia's definition of a Christian Nationalist?

 

[SavedInHim]

Would you say that elected representatives who vote for policies that align with traditional Biblical teaching are "Christian nationalists"?

I believe I defined who I think Christian nationalists are in my post you quoted.

 

[markalan]

Do you trust Wikepedia's definition of a Christian Nationalist?

Definitely not!!!
The article is a good example of how the liberal media claim CNs are responsible for all the evils in America.

 

[markalan]

I believe I defined who I think Christian nationalists are in my post you quoted.

I would find it easier to understand if there were some specific examples.

 

[Ziggy]

Most historians and legal scholars agree that two things have always been true about the United States — it has no official religion, and Christianity has shaped its culture, laws and public life since before its founding. But what does it mean to be a nation of mostly Christians without a state religion? For most of the nation’s history, the country held that tension without resolving it.

The debate over that question has gained new intensity in the Trump era, especially as the country approaches its 250th anniversary. On Sunday (May 17), the Trump administration will host “Rededicate 250,” a daylong festival of prayer and thanksgiving on the National Mall. The idea, Trump said when he announced the event at the National Prayer Breakfast, is to “rededicate America as one nation under God.” Many of the speakers at the event — most of them Christian and evangelical — espouse the idea that America was and always has been a Christian nation.

Until the 1970s, the belief that America was a Christian nation — demographically and culturally — was commonplace, said John Fea, a professor of history at Messiah College in Pennsylvania and author of “Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?” Many of the nation’s laws, on everything from sexuality and marriage to more mundane details, such as what kinds of businesses could open on Sundays, were shaped by Christian ideas.

The notion of America as a Christian country became contested and redefined during the Reagan era and the rise of the religious right, which wanted the country’s laws to be more explicitly Christian. There were calls for official prayers and Bible readings in school and a return to “family values” in response to the sexual revolution of the ’60s and 1970s and the rise of feminism.

All of a sudden, the idea of being a Christian nation became a partisan debate, not a historical one.

“You want to get on the side of Christian America, or you’re going to oppose a Christian America — that pretty much tells you where you are at politically today,” said Fea.

Fea is careful to note that America has never been legally a Christian country — the establishment clause in the First Amendment to the Constitution explicitly forbids establishing an official national religion. Nonetheless, from the earliest days of the republic, many Christians, on all sides of the political spectrum, have argued that all aspects of society, including governmental policy, should be shaped by their faith.

A Christian nation? At 250, America is still fighting over what that means

Scholars say American history is more Christian than secular advocates claim — and less religious than Christian nationalists would assert. A look at the complicated, contested history of America as a Christian nation.

religionnews.com

 

[SavedInHim]

I would find it easier to understand if there were some specific examples.

I'm sorry you don't understand. Ponder it awhile, maybe it'll come to you.

 

[markalan]

I'm sorry you don't understand. Ponder it awhile, maybe it'll come to you.

I encourage you to look into what is being passed off as Christian nationalism by the liberal media ... the examples I've seen are things most people in this forum would support.

 

[Lizbeth]

You know what they say about sticks and stones?

And when the name Christian was a derogatory slur?

1Pe 4:14
If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
1Pe 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1Pe 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

A holy nation of Christians = Christian Nationalists

With or without elected representatives who vote for policies that may or may not be according to tradition,
but By the Word of God.

Hugs

Believe it or not the world recognizes hypocrisy within Christianity and is often quick to call it out. There are ways in which the children of the world are wiser than the children of light, as Jesus said. We're to be a holy nation that is not of this world......in the world but not of it....strangers passing through. Jesus said His kingdom comes not with observation that we may say lo here it is or there. In other words it is not an earthly entity that can be identified and pointed out on a map and seen with the natural eyes and has defined borders. No more than the body of Christ, the church, is a building or an organization.

 

[Lizbeth]

Most historians and legal scholars agree that two things have always been true about the United States — it has no official religion, and Christianity has shaped its culture, laws and public life since before its founding. But what does it mean to be a nation of mostly Christians without a state religion? For most of the nation’s history, the country held that tension without resolving it.

The debate over that question has gained new intensity in the Trump era, especially as the country approaches its 250th anniversary. On Sunday (May 17), the Trump administration will host “Rededicate 250,” a daylong festival of prayer and thanksgiving on the National Mall. The idea, Trump said when he announced the event at the National Prayer Breakfast, is to “rededicate America as one nation under God.” Many of the speakers at the event — most of them Christian and evangelical — espouse the idea that America was and always has been a Christian nation.

Until the 1970s, the belief that America was a Christian nation — demographically and culturally — was commonplace, said John Fea, a professor of history at Messiah College in Pennsylvania and author of “Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?” Many of the nation’s laws, on everything from sexuality and marriage to more mundane details, such as what kinds of businesses could open on Sundays, were shaped by Christian ideas.

The notion of America as a Christian country became contested and redefined during the Reagan era and the rise of the religious right, which wanted the country’s laws to be more explicitly Christian. There were calls for official prayers and Bible readings in school and a return to “family values” in response to the sexual revolution of the ’60s and 1970s and the rise of feminism.

All of a sudden, the idea of being a Christian nation became a partisan debate, not a historical one.

“You want to get on the side of Christian America, or you’re going to oppose a Christian America — that pretty much tells you where you are at politically today,” said Fea.

Fea is careful to note that America has never been legally a Christian country — the establishment clause in the First Amendment to the Constitution explicitly forbids establishing an official national religion. Nonetheless, from the earliest days of the republic, many Christians, on all sides of the political spectrum, have argued that all aspects of society, including governmental policy, should be shaped by their faith.

A Christian nation? At 250, America is still fighting over what that means

Scholars say American history is more Christian than secular advocates claim — and less religious than Christian nationalists would assert. A look at the complicated, contested history of America as a Christian nation.

religionnews.com

I believe a country can be deemed to be "Christian" when a preponderance of its citizens and rulers adhere to Christianity. This has been the case with western civilization for many generations. That's when the laws and overall lifestyle of the nation generally reflect biblical teachings. In the USA to my understanding, this has been entirely voluntary and the will of the majority of the people since its inception, not forced upon the nation....?

Or do you and others here believe we should we follow the ways of Constantine? His ways embodied mixture and compromise and "officialdom" which persecuted the faithful remnant of true believers.

If we are the body of Christ we need to examine ourselves to find out why God is not blessing the church these days and why we have lost ground in the nation to such an extent that to remain Christian it would have to be legally enforced. Learn the lessons of ancient Israel. Is there sin in the camp....? Is the church following the ways of the world these days and become worldly....? Are we serving Jesus or mammon? Are we eating the table of the Lord and of idols too? No man can serve two masters. To do so means we're not serving God at all. Can't rely on both God and His ways and the world and its ways at the same time. It's either choose God/Christ as King and trust in Him or demand a King Saul like the Israelites did. And even if having a King Saul were to work out well on the surface..........what of the soul? What would it profit to gain the whole world but lose the soul?

 

[Ziggy]

to my understanding, this has been entirely voluntary and the will of the majority of the people since its inception, not forced upon the nation

It still is.

If we are the body of Christ we need to examine ourselves to find out why God is not blessing the church these days and why we have lost ground in the nation

He is.

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it's not habbening.
D

God works in mysterious ways



Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

 

[Gray_Joy]

I think if we believe God when he said he does not change and he is the same yesterday,today and forever,then we have to face the fact God in the Old Testament foundation of the New,was political.

He established legal codes, established theocratic government,and appointed leaders. He defended his domain and overcame,using armies,his enemies. With extreme prejudice.

Nationalism:Cambridge Dictionary: A nation's wish and attempt to be politically independent, or a great (sometimes too great) love of your own country.

 

[Ziggy]

I think if we believe God when he said he does not change and he is the same yesterday,today and forever,then we have to face the fact God in the Old Testament foundation of the New,was political.

He established legal codes, established theocratic government,and appointed leaders. He defended his domain and overcame,using armies,his enemies. With extreme prejudice.

Nationalism:Cambridge Dictionary: A nation's wish and attempt to be politically independent, or a great (sometimes too great) love of your own country.

Sometimes countries have a way of expanding, and eventually all nations will have One Lord, One King, One Faith.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jhn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 10:35
But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Col 1:23
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Col 1:28
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Col 1:29
Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

What happens if they don't accept the Gospel?

Rom 10:18
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Act 28:24
And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

Rom 2:8
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11
For there is no respect of persons with God.

TRUTH HURTS SOMETIMES.
SORRY, NOT SORRY

Hugs

 

[Wrangler]

Nancy, so much of what you wrote is wrong, it’s hard to know where to begin.

Suddenly, the persecuted Church had political influence.
Then political privilege.
Then political power.

This is a natural, inevitable progression of societal evolution. Some things are in decline. Some things are ascendant.

the followers of Jesus began persecuting others.

That what prosecutors do, prosecute. Honestly, I’m dismayed you suppose this shouldn’t apply to Christian’s.

From religious wars and inquisitions to forced conversions, colonial conquests, and defenses of slavery, Christian history contains some deeply embarrassing chapters.

I’m not ashamed or embarrassed in any way and reject the guilt trip we should be on. Do you know that God created slavery?

In Biblical times of Joseph, the people begged to be slaves as a merciful alternative to starving to death during a terrible drought.

I could write so much in defense of colonialism. God is a warrior and there should be no surprise whatsoever that his children, made in his image, would be warriors also. There should be surprise if we weren’t warriors.

When Christianity becomes obsessed with controlling government, defeating cultural enemies, enforcing conformity, and keeping “our people” in power, we should recognize the pattern.

Indeed. See Odoro Amoris.