Forgiving others

[Taken]

Lol dude if your saved your saved I thought..

what you say makes no sense

It shouldn’t to a mind.
It should to a born again spirit.

 

[WHO ME]

Well firstly I'm not trying to teach anything, I don't claim to be a teacher, im very much a student.
I'm just giving the facts.

I think giving facts still makes you teaching... almost everyone on this site is a teacher
When you tell anyone what something means or how something works your a teacher imo

 

[Taken]

Gifts intentionally forfeited by the giver for whatever reason were never gifts.....they were an underhanded trade dressed to make the giver appear generous.

Nonsense.


Ever played the lottery?
You can win… and if you don’t collect by a certain date, you forfeit the prize.

Never seen a movie, one buys another a gift? One presents to give the gift, and the other refuses to TAKE the gift?
They lose what was Bought, paid for, and Offered by another. Is a gift, and once refused, the gift remains with the buyer…
And the other forfeits receiving his gift.

Gods gift of Salvation (was bought, paid for, offered to the whole world) and has a “condition” of a cut off date.
If You don’t AGREE to take the gift before the cut off date, you forfeit your gift.

It was not any less a gift.

 

[Taken]

Well firstly I'm not trying to teach anything, I don't claim to be a teacher, im very much a student and admit there is much I don't understand.
I'm just giving the facts.
That salvation is finalised after we die

And secondly you seem to be saying exactly the same thing as I said

You said
"Salvation is Accomplished ONCE…after a believers bodily Death"

That's basically the same thing that I said

So I don't understand your objection seeing that we are actually in agreement

Yet… you are Against OSAS.

Can you come back from the Dead and return your Gift?

Do you get the same gift over and over?

Or once and Done? OSAS?

 

[Armour of God]

I think giving facts still makes you teaching... almost everyone on this site is a teacher
When you tell anyone what something means or how something works your a teacher imo

This is the definition of teach



Note that it goes beyond sharing facts

 

[Taken]

Well firstly I'm not trying to teach anything, I don't claim to be a teacher,

At some point people are both, the student and the teacher.

 

[Armour of God]

Yet… you are Against OSAS.

Can you come back from the Dead and return your Gift?

Do you get the same gift over and over?

Or once and Done? OSAS?

Oh your talking about OSAS

In regard to that, I don't understand the concept

 

[quietthinker]

Nonsense.


Ever played the lottery?
You can win… and if you don’t collect by a certain date, you forfeit the prize.

Never seen a movie, one buys another a gift? One presents to give the gift, and the other refuses to TAKE the gift?
They lose what was Bought, paid for, and Offered by another. Is a gift, and once refused, the gift remains with the buyer…
And the other forfeits receiving his gift.

Gods gift of Salvation (was bought, paid for, offered to the whole world) and has a “condition” of a cut off date.
If You don’t AGREE to take the gift before the cut off date, you forfeit your gift.

It was not any less a gift.

Using your language of 'a cut off date', It is not cut off by God ie he doesn't retract the gift. It is 'cut off' by the intended recipient.
Men choose to reject. Calvary is evidence of that.

 

[Taken]

Using your language of 'a cut off date', It is not cut off by God ie he doesn't retract the gift. It is 'cut off' by the intended recipient.
Men choose to reject. Calvary is evidence of that.

The cut off date… is Acceptance BEFORE Death.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Oh your talking about OSAS

In regard to that, I don't understand the concept

But you reject OSAS…. Which would mean…you received your Gift (after bodily death)…
But somehow, while Dead, can lose, reject, return the Gift.

 

[quietthinker]

The cut off date… is Acceptance BEFORE Death.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

How do you accept that which is already yours....freely given? All you can do is cast it away.
While we were sinners God gave......didn't lend, do a deal or make conditions.....in fact it was given before you were born.

 

[Armour of God]

But you reject OSAS…. Which would mean…you received your Gift (after bodily death)…
But somehow, while Dead, can lose, reject, return the Gift.

Ok when you put it that way then i do understand it.
When you say that salvation is a future event, after death, then yes, OSAS makes sense to me in that context.

Some people say their already saved (past tense). That's what I don't understand and that was the main point I was objecting to. Most people that talk about OSAS seem look at it this way, as if their already saved, before death.

But we seem to be in agreement that salvation is a future event, after death. In that case, yes, OSAS, you can't loose it after your body dies and your spirit is already in heaven

 

[WHO ME]

Grace thru faith and your saved by believeing on His name you are saved by the blood of Christ.... correct?

And then your walk with God starts and thats when doing Gods will or works would start, right after you are saved... correct?

And if as a believer you dont do his works or will in your life then your faith becomes dead

How do you all not understand that?
What faith without works do you think is dead that james is talking about?

We only have 1 faith.... wake up

 

[Armour of God]

Grace thru faith and your saved by believeing on His name you are saved by the blood of Christ.... correct?

And then your walk with God starts and thats when doing Gods will or works would start, right after you are saved... correct?

And if as a believer you dont do his works or will in your life then your faith becomes dead

How do you all not understand that?
What faith without works do you think is dead that james is talking about?

We only have 1 faith.... wake up

Something like that but I think salvation is finalised after we die, not while we are still alive on earth.

I read that the Greek word for save can be used in the past tense, present tense or future tense. I think that some confusion lays in this. I believe salvation is a future event.

 

[WHO ME]

Armour of God you dont believe as taken or others believe, they believe right from the start their saved and its a done deal.... but thats not what you believe.... you believe in grace thru faith yes but you dont think its settled till the end of life.... well how do you think works work? its not settled until after you living you whole life doing Gods will ends .... that where your getting your view....

 

[Armour of God]

Armour of God you dont believe as taken or others believe, they believe right from the start their saved and its a done deal.... but thats not what you believe.... you believe in grace thru faith yes but you dont think its settled till the end of life

Correct.
So far with my conversation with taken, we both agree that salvation happens after death
So far his telling me that OSAS is after death which makes sense.

I've mentioned that most people think their already saved and am waiting for his response to that

well how do you think works work? its not settled until after you living you whole life doing Gods will ends .... that where your getting your view....

Good works, or deeds as I prefer to call it, is also required in my opinion. James says that faith without deeds is dead. The bible repeatedly says we will be judged on our deeds.

 

[WHO ME]

To make it simple, this is what Im saying and how paul lived it as we are also to try and live it...

You become saved when you believe Christ.. but you are expected to do Gods works (will) till the day you die..... thats when its decided at the end

Thats where your belief comes from.... thats the correct belief

 

[WHO ME]

Correct.
So far with my conversation with taken, we both agree that salvation happens after death

Thats Not what he believes... he believes your saved day 1 and you cant ever lose it.... his salvation does not include works... how can it if he believes hes saved on day 1....

 

[Taken]

How do you accept that which is already yours....freely given? All you can do is cast it away.
While we were sinners God gave......didn't lend, do a deal or make conditions.....in fact it was given before you were born.

What do you think was freely Given?

 

[Taken]

Ok when you put it that way then i do understand it.
When you say that salvation is a future event, after death, then yes, OSAS makes sense to me in that context.

Some people say their already saved (past tense). That's what I don't understand and that was the main point I was objecting to. Most people that talk about OSAS seem look at it this way, as if their already saved, before death.

But we seem to be in agreement that salvation is a future event, after death. In that case, yes, OSAS, you can't loose it after your body dies and your spirit is already in heaven

You fully do not yet understand.

1/ An agreement YES, before Death, a man heartfully Believes.

2/ Yes, Salvation Given after a bodily Death of a Heartful believer.

Some people say their already saved (past tense).

3/ YES, Because… of what “THEY” (not everyone) Have Done.

4/ WHAT? Gave what Jesus Gave…
Confession of Belief.
Their Body unto Death.

5/ HOW?
Confessed TO the Lord…
Crucified with Jesus’ Body.

One Confession of Their Word of Heartful Belief.
One “Accounted” Bodily Death…Crucifixion.

While men, still SEE a mortal body walking about…
God SEES, a Faithful Believer,
Already “MADE Whole, Body, soul, spirit…”“Prepared” for Eternal Life With God.
“KEPT”…in that condition (whole), by the Power of God ( IN them )…

And…?
On the Day Their BODY, is Risen UP…
Then shall a man BE “ABLE to See his own Spiritual ever living BODY”….AND…able to SEE God as He is “Spirit”.
(They were saved by Christ, Forgiven by Christ, Shall be Resurrected, Redeemed, Risen, by Christ the Lord… ie Rapture)

Other believers… do Not Confess their Belief.
In their case… “IF” they continue to Believe to the moment of their own Mortal Death…
God SHALL, MAKE them Whole, Save them…
Redeem them, Resurrect them…
First Resurrection.

There is and has been millions of People, from ancient to modern eras…
And always has been a way, for FREEWILL of every individual to Believe, accept, reject, change his beliefs, make promises, behave, as he chooses…

Every single individual…has a way, to forever be With or Without God.

For 4,000 years men had God and His Word…
For the following 2,000+ years men have had God, His Word ( men could SEE ), A name for Gods Word, and the Same Promise…
Men who Believe… would have A Forever Life WITH God…
VOID…
Of the tribulations, men presently cause toward each others… hate, lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, meanness, hurt, diseases, death, destruction, sorrow, on and on…

Each individual ( in his own choosing ) decides, IF, When, he Will Choose or Reject God.

And for every choice every man makes, God has established, prepared, a Consequence, the Applies to Every mans Choices.

Saved by Jesus…?
Consequence He Offers.

Saved by God…?
Consequence He Offers.

Belief Rejected…?
Gods final Consequence.

I heard, learned, verified, Believed, Confessed, Accepted Jesus’ Offering…and Trust…He gave to me, Salvation, and Gods Power (Christ)…kEEPS for me, What He gave to me.

Glory to God,
Taken