Is our soul immortal or mortal?

[Bob]

In a recent, comfortably debated post on Burial vs Cremation, @quietthinker stated it really didn’t matter since our souls expire when the body does. And yes, he assures us that he is a Christian (“I believe Jesus is the full and complete representation of his Father. . . .”).

Although there were a number of scripture citations (by @Wrangler and @Anchorite and @Angelina et al.) that are traditionally accepted to support an immortal soul, @quietthinker voiced a different, contrary perspective.

At this point, before every jumps in, I invite @quietthinker to restate his position clearly.

Remember to engage with respect! (Seek first to understand before you would be understood.)

Peace and Blessings.

 

[quietthinker]

Mortality is the given as children of Adam since he ate of a particular tree he was told would cause him to die.

Ok, ok....a small discourse to set the scene....

Adam and Eve came from God's hand as did all Creation on our planet with God declaring it very good. Life was a given. It reflected God; his values, his principles and with mankind in particular, his very image.
The Garden in which the sexy pair lived, two trees were also present. One promoted life, the other we are told would impart the knowledge of good and evil, (if they ate of it) just like God; well, that was according to the wily Serpent we today understand to be the Devil. (incidentally, it was Jesus who gave us this insight....a connection heretofore unknown)

We can deduct at least a couple of things from the Serpent's assertion; that God knew (experienced) good as well as evil....in other words, he is dualistic. It (the Serpent) also implied that God had said things God had not said.
The story is in Genesis 3 for those who want 'biblical' and are unfamiliar with it.

We know what happened; they believed the Serpent and as per God's promise, diminishment became their trajectory. Firstly guilt and shame and fear and finally death (no no, not because of their genitals but because of their disconnect from God)..........and within the first generation, murder had openly manifested. Death and its ugly reality marred what God had initially declared very good.

That lie, 'you shall not surely die', by the Serpent (Genesis 3:4) in contrast to God's words, '....don't eat of that tree (that reality) for you will surely die when you do' (Genesis 2:17)

God does not know evil. God is not dualistic.
1 John 1:5 tells us, '...God is light and in him is no darkness at all.'

Death is alien to God's reality; it is an enemy. (1 Corinthians 15:26 ....50-54)
Dualism to which the Worlds religions subscribe, including much of Christianity and certainly OT writers is a lie. 'Eating' from this 'tree' will surely result in death. (cessation of life)

.....and to sum up my little blurb....at least for the moment,
John 10:10
'The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full'

Wherever there is death and destruction we can know it is the work of the Devil (the serpent)......never the work of God, contrary to what many have believed and do believe .....even OT writers.

Life for those who want it becomes their experiential reality at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:50-55)
Prior to then, those who have died wait in the grave for that life giving call by the Prince of Life.....just as Lazarus did.

 

[Anchorite]

Dualism to which the Worlds religions subscribe, including much of Christianity and certainly OT writers is a lie.


Wherever there is death and destruction we can know it is the work of the Devil (the serpent)......never the work of God, contrary to what many have believed and do believe .....even OT writers.

You state that OT writers lie.

 

[quietthinker]

You state that OT writers lie.

Inadvertently. They believed things about God that just wasn't correct.

 

[Anchorite]

Inadvertently. They believed things about God that just wasn't correct.

If the OT writers were not inspired by God, have you thrown your Bible in the garbage?

 

[quietthinker]

If the OT writers were not inspired by God, have you thrown your Bible in the garbage?

Inspiration does not mean the inerrancy of the inspired. Just use your own experience as an example; for certain you have been inspired by God at times but does that mean everything you say is inerrant? Of course not.

 

[Bob]

Thank you.

So, here is typical scripture concerning Jesus and his promise, John 11:

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Then there is the question of whether information can exist apart from a medium: the laws of physic and the edifice of mathematics, for example (created by God), clearly existed before they were discovered. Then, surely God can create souls that can exist without a body.

Over to you!

 

[Anchorite]

Inspiration does not mean the inerrancy of the inspired. Just use your own experience as an example; for certain you have been inspired by God at times but does that mean everything you say is inerrant? Of course not.

Your modernist philosophy negates the holiness of God’s inspired, inerrant Word.

 

[quietthinker]

Your modernist philosophy negates the holiness of God’s inspired, inerrant Word.

Firstly Anchorite, applying labels in an attempt to nullify my statements doesn't wash. It only reveals a concealed desperation.

When you insist on the OT writings being inerrant you will need to explain why Jesus made statements like. 'You have heard it said but I say unto you......' Matthew 5:21-48

 

[quietthinker]

Thank you.

So, here is typical scripture concerning Jesus and his promise, John 11:

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Then there is the question of whether information can exist apart from a medium: the laws of physic and the edifice of mathematics, for example (created by God), clearly existed before they were discovered. Then, surely God can create souls that can exist without a body.

Over to you!

Haven't forgotten you Bob. Got several things on the go presently.

 

[David Lamb]

Firstly Anchorite, applying labels in an attempt to nullify my statements doesn't wash. It only reveals a concealed desperation.

When you insist on the OT writings being inerrant you will need to explain why Jesus made statements like. 'You have heard it said but I say unto you......' Matthew 5:21-48

But surely when Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said......but I say unto you" He wasn't saying that the Old Testament was in error. Rather, He was saying that those who interpreted OT commandments narrowly (as though it was fine to think murderous thoughts about somebody, as long as you didn't actually kill them) were wrong. To claim that He meant that the Old Testament contained errors would make nonsense of His words in Matthew 5:

(Mat 5:17 NKJV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

 

[quietthinker]

But surely when Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said......but I say unto you" He wasn't saying that the Old Testament was in error. Rather, He was saying that those who interpreted OT commandments narrowly (as though it was fine to think murderous thoughts about somebody, as long as you didn't actually kill them) were wrong. To claim that He meant that the Old Testament contained errors would make nonsense of His words in Matthew 5:

(Mat 5:17 NKJV) "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

They has heard it from the OT writings. Check the references. Jesus was expanding their understanding. He was using his authority over that of the scriptures they used. This was also illustrated in him not condemning the woman brought to him who was caught in adultery.

 

[David Lamb]

They has heard it from the OT writings. Check the references. Jesus was expanding their understanding. He was using his authority over that of the scriptures they used. This was also illustrated in him not condemning the woman brought to him who was caught in adultery.

My point was that Jesus was not saying that the Old Testament was in error.

 

[Angelina]

Scripture teaches us that God alone possesses inherent immortality, 1 Timothy 6:16. Humans are mortal, Genesis 3:19; Romans 5:12.
The soul can die, Ezekiel 18:4, 20. God can destroy both body and soul, Matthew 10:28. Eternal life and immortality are gifts received through Christ, Romans 6:23; 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.

Many faithful Christians have held different views on the intermediate state for centuries. The central gospel truth remains the same: our hope is not found in an immortal human nature but in the resurrection of Jesus Christ and his promise to raise his people on the last day John 11:25–26; 1 Corinthians 15.

I would encourage everyone to distinguish between what Scripture explicitly states and what theological traditions have inferred.