Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[MostlyConfused]

What makes me sad and depressed, is the pattern of behaviour I so often see around here, which belies the holiness being talked about. Not good fruit.

That’s your flesh speaking and being upset that some people won’t caress it if by any means they might help you.

 

[Episkopos]

I read this, this morning. I woke up and read it mere minutes after you posted it. I read it more times than once. My heart both ached for you and was happy for you because I connected very deeply and pityingly and also knew you were in a safe place. Before I went back to sleep I made a few starts to write something to encourage you but I thought it might be me interfering with Gods’ heavy hand on you to say a word (not I think He is not being as gentle as possible, but it feels that way to us I think, when He is pursuing us and taking away everything we try to grab to support or comfort us other than Himself.) He is jealous for us and we feel, like Job, that He doesn’t even let us catch our breath for even a second or let up for more than a brief time - refreshing, as you call it - before we are plunged back into it.

I decided to speak now though because you got a response that I do not think was good, (although He uses even those blows or abuses to our advantage but don’t ask me how other than to use it to make us not care one whit about our reputation before others.)

The love of God comes with a tension that is unbearable for many. When we see a brother or sister who has God's heavy hand upon him/her we want to help and encourage...which is a very good thing. We suffer together because we are members one of another.

But there are many who, when they hear what God is doing, attribute it to the devil or else make up excuses for the flesh like "you are feeling vulnerable right now you just need to console yourself and reject whatever makes you feel bad" .

Like Job's "friends" or even like Peter who tried consoling Jesus by having Him skip over the hard parts. Jesus responded "get behind Me Satan". To the flesh this kind of rebuke is PROOF that God is harsh and stirs up trouble (for the flesh)...but if we forget our egos and overcome the kind of temptation there is for the flesh to forego God's training for something much more "edifying" for the flesh, we may discover an actual closeness to God. If you try explaining that to carnal people they will just make a funny look or else attack what they see as of no use, even detrimental to their own idea of God.

 

[shepherdsword]

I read this, this morning. I woke up and read it mere minutes after you posted it. I read it more times than once. My heart both ached for you and was happy for you because I connected very deeply and pityingly and also knew you were in a safe place. Before I went back to sleep I made a few starts to write something to encourage you but I thought it might be me interfering with Gods’ heavy hand on you to say a word (not I think He is not being as gentle as possible, but it feels that way to us I think, when He is pursuing us and taking away everything we try to grab to support or comfort us other than Himself.) He is jealous for us and we feel, like Job, that He doesn’t even let us catch our breath for even a second or let up for more than a brief time - refreshing, as you call it - before we are plunged back into it.

I decided to speak now though because you got a response that I do not think was good, (although He uses even those blows or abuses to our advantage but don’t ask me how other than to use it to make us not care one whit about our reputation before others.)

I strongly relate to Lamentations 3. It starts with

Lam 3:1-3
I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light. Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day.

but ends with:

Lam 3:21-25 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. The Lord is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.

I am sorely tempted to post that entire chapter...as I can relate. Not that I am on Jeremiah's level, I mean who am I? Rather I have been given my own personal measure of chastening.

We will all face this one way or another:

Heb 12:5-7 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 

[MostlyConfused]

The love of God comes with a tension that is unbearable for many.

Is that tension our flesh wrestling with where He is trying, in His love, to take us and get us to? It seems to me this is so.

 

[Episkopos]

Is that tension our flesh wrestling with where He is trying, in His love, to take us and get us to? It seems to me this is so.

The tension exists because God is holy and until we are fully like Christ we are NOT like Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

Free from bondage to sin....not freedom from bad feelings. Those "bad feelings" are required in order to surrender ourselves fully to the Lord to get freedom and comfort from Him. Too many believers comfort themselves and never know eternal rest.

The body of Christ is there....not to push away the sense of failure that brings humility. No, the Publican was justified in his disgust of himself. Again, most are like the Pharisee that see nothing wrong with their supposed relationship with God.....of course until they actually meet God on judgment day. Then the bad feelings will kick in. Wisdom is in the house of mourning, not jubilation.

I agree.

This is what you have been taught. But I have not found any who say that that have an actual relationship with Christ. It's just a ploy. The kingdom of God is a meritocracy. Those whom God loves He comforts???? Not at first. Those whom He loves He whips and rebukes.


This whole life is a performance before the Lord. He judges, not we. We can't judge ourselves to be justified or approved of God...unless we are living as we read in Acts...by the power of God. THEN we can declare that we are in relationship with the living God. We know it by works...not beliefs and indoctrination.

You are leaving out mercy. And whose merits? I think there must be good reason why we will lay our crowns at HIS feet. Shouldn't we look at both sides of the coin?

We have been brought into a living two way relationship with the Lord....that is what happens and what it means when we are reconciled to God, at least that is my testimony. And He grows us up like children, with both love and discipline.....or at least we should be growing. We should not despise the day of small beginnings. Children do have a viable relationship with their Father, but the relationship grows and matures onto another footing as the children grow into adulthood.

 

[Lizbeth]

That’s your flesh speaking and being upset that some people won’t caress it if by any means they might help you.

That is how you are justifying SIN....the same as Epi does.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree.

How can you not see the huge difference between what you want to be seen as affirming and your own behaviour? You want good and proper behaviour? Look back over your posts...they are from the flesh...attacking what is right and true. But you won't see it. I think more people are seeing what you are doing.

Until you stop with the theorizing and begin to behave as if you agreed with the theories you seem to acknowledge from the bible, I don't see why you should expect encouragement.... unless to repent from such an attitude.

 

[Episkopos]

That is how you are justifying SIN....the same as Epi does.

Look at your behaviour. Look at how hostile you are to anyone who gives no oxygen to the flesh. You HATE correction. It is a sin to you. But it is grace from God.

 

[Lizbeth]

How can you not see the huge difference between what you want to be seen as affirming and your own behaviour? You want good and proper behaviour? Look back over your posts...they are from the flesh...attacking what is right and true. But you won't see it. I think more people are seeing what you are doing.

Until you stop with the theorizing and begin to behave as if you agreed with the theories you seem to acknowledge from the bible, I don't see why you should expect encouragement.... unless to repent from such an attitude.

Oh my goodness Epi. It is you who interpret areas of honest disagreement as a personal attack....and respond in kind.

 

[Lizbeth]

Look at your behaviour. Look at how hostile you are to anyone who gives no oxygen to the flesh. You HATE correction. It is a sin to you. But it is grace from God.

LOL. You're making me smile. Oy vey.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh my goodness Epi. It is you who interpret areas of honest disagree as a personal attack....and respond in kind.

You bite the hand that is trying to feed you. You want everyone to be only half right, as you are. If that's not living by the ego, then I don't know what could be clearer.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I strongly relate to Lamentations 3. It starts with

Lam 3:1-3
I am the man that hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. He hath led me, and brought me into darkness, but not into light. Surely against me is he turned; he turneth his hand against me all the day.

but ends with:

Lam 3:21-25 This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope. It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness. The Lord is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him. The Lord is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.

I am sorely tempted to post that entire chapter...as I can relate. Not that I am on Jeremiah's level, I mean who am I? Rather I have been given my own personal measure of chastening.

We will all face this one way or another:

Heb 12:5-7 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Yes, that starts as I felt for many, many years, and may again for all I know if He wills it.i only know that after a long time, I suddenly began viewing part of me as my enemy and as NOT me somehow and asked God to not stop until my enemy was dead, even as I was sobbing. I think it’s what episkopos said somewhere about inner man/outer man. The beginning of lamentations seems to be the outer man having no comfort and the end seems to be the comfort of the Holy Spirit for the inner man.

I don’t mean to state that my outer man is dead. I think he just must be too scared to move right now.

 

[IndianaRob]

Free from bondage to sin....not freedom from bad feelings. Those "bad feelings" are required in order to surrender ourselves fully to the Lord to get freedom and comfort from Him. Too many believers comfort themselves and never know eternal rest.

The body of Christ is there....not to push away the sense of failure that brings humility. No, the Publican was justified in his disgust of himself. Again, most are like the Pharisee that see nothing wrong with their supposed relationship with God.....of course until they actually meet God on judgment day. Then the bad feelings will kick in. Wisdom is in the house of mourning, not jubilation.

This is what you have been taught. But I have not found any who say that that have an actual relationship with Christ. It's just a ploy. The kingdom of God is a meritocracy. Those whom God loves He comforts???? Not at first. Those whom He loves He whips and rebukes.


This whole life is a performance before the Lord. He judges, not we. We can't judge ourselves to be justified or approved of God...unless we are living as we read in Acts...by the power of God. THEN we can declare that we are in relationship with the living God. We know it by works...not beliefs and indoctrination.

Do you realize that someone on drugs who thinks he can fly...never can!!!!??? Beliefs don't give us any power except to deceive.

What you’re saying is the exact opposite of Hebrews 9.

Hebrews 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ... purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Not only are your "dead works forgiven" but "the thing inside you that feels guilty about them is cleansed."

This type of “bad works” is exactly what the judgement seat of Christ is about. What you have said here will be brought up there and you will be held accountable.

I’m not against you. I’m saying this as person trying to help you.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, that starts as I felt for many, many years, and may again for all I know if He wills it.i only know that after a long time, I suddenly began viewing part of me as my enemy and as NOT me somehow and asked God to not stop until my enemy was dead, even as I was sobbing. I think it’s what episkopos said somewhere about inner man/outer man. The beginning of lamentations seems to be the outer man having no comfort and the end seems to be the comfort of the Holy Spirit for the inner man.

I don’t mean to state that my outer man is dead. I think he just must be too scared to move right now.

Amen. The bible says, in the fear of the Lord AND the comfort of the Holy Ghost. The fear of the Lord is on the outer man and the comfort of the Spirit is for the inner man. The problem with being regenerated in the Spirit, is that BOTH are elevated...and the outer man being stronger, takes over and spoils everything. That is the history of the church and all of us individually UNTIL we are either weaned from the flesh (in the fear of God) or crucified in the outer man or BOTH as we go in and out of the Spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

You bite the hand that is trying to feed you. You want everyone to be only half right, as you are. If that's not living by the ego, then I don't know what could be clearer.

No, I don't want anyone or myself to be only half right....that is why I've been trying very hard to rightly divide everything. You are calling the foundations of the Christian faith the strong delusion.........and you are offended that anyone would want to test and examine that? Oh my.

 

[MostlyConfused]

You are leaving out mercy.

He is not leaving out mercy. Gods’ mercy IS to be merciless with our outer man in order to free us from his totalitarian rule. He SEES more than you and he literally treats you and your outer man as he would want to be treated if he were in your condition. If he treats his own flesh roughly and did not do the same for you, he would be harming you. You are literally, but without knowing it, asking others to harm you!

 

[Episkopos]

What you’re saying is the exact opposite of Hebrews 9.

Hebrews 9:14 "How much more shall the blood of Christ... purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"

Not only are your "dead works forgiven" but "the thing inside you that feels guilty about them is cleansed."

This is the actual opposite of what the verse says. You are looking for forgiveness IN your sins. But the cross of Christ is not about forgiveness...it is an instrument of death that is VERY unforgiving.

You are operating on feelings not heavenly power. Now if you are a new believer, I would say to beware the leaven of the modern Pharisees who look for comfort by avoiding the cross.

This type of “bad works” is exactly what the judgement seat of Christ is about. What you have said here will be brought up there and you will be held accountable.

I’m not against you. I’m saying this as person trying to help you.

I don't think you are understanding what the faith of Christ is about. I don't want to discourage your growth potential, but you need to re-adjust what you think is right and wrong.

Jesus saves us FROM our sins to walk as He walked...as an overcomer.... WITHOUT sin.

The reason why our consciences no longer condemn us is because we are walking ABOVE sin by the grace of God...in the power OVER sin...in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

He is not leaving out mercy. Gods’ mercy IS to be merciless with our outer man in order to free us from his totalitarian rule. He SEES more than you and he literally treats you and your outer man as he would want to be treated if he were in your condition. If he treats his own flesh roughly and did not do the same for you, he would be harming you. You are literally, but without knowing it, asking others to harm you!

Amen again...self-love is self-harm.

 

[IndianaRob]

What makes me sad and depressed, is the pattern of behaviour I so often see around here, which belies the holiness being talked about. Not good fruit.

Works salvation people ALWAYS try to take away our liberty in Christ and put the believer back in bondage.

I’ve even seen them say Paul wasn’t saved when he wrote Romans because of the freedom Paul teaches in Romans.