Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

I’m surprised to hear that. How does one lose their salvation in your opinion?

I think we better not go off topic here.

But think I'll just point out one scripture since it is pertinent to the thread: in Hebrews 6 where it says we are to leave the first principles and go on to perfection FOR it is impossible that those who were enlightened and made partakers of the Holy Spirit if they should fall away to renew them to repentance. I see a warning there that we need to keep growing and going on to completion otherwise we could fall away.

Now I don't say that if we don't reach perfection in this life that we are automatically fallen away and cut off, but we at least need to be following on in Christ, running the race and reaching for what lies ahead. We as parents don't expect the same things of our little children as we would when they are older, we dont' judge them the same. As children get "older" we expect more of them than when they were little. I think it is the same with the Lord. And if we remain as little children instead of growing up it leaves us more vulnerable to becoming a prey too...blown around by various winds of false doctrines that can endanger the soul.

And that word perfection in English, I don't believe it means perfect in the sense that one can never make a mistake, but it is speaking of a completion, a culmination of growth, the "finishing" of our faith....and I wonder if that is even a measure that will differ between individuals. Each one reaching their potential spiritually, whatever that means for each soul...?

 

[Lizbeth]

Says you.....but the scriptures say this:

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

So which is it...do we listen to your reasoning, or to the scriptures?!??

And I will add, that it is very apparent that you do NOT hold the truth in spirit.

That has been one of my favourite scriptures from the beginning. We are all growing in that respect I hope, and need to.

You are of course free to have an opinion about me. At least we agree in principle.

 

[IndianaRob]

I could ask you the same question...but you are not here to be honest only to regurgitate whatever form of doctrine you heard last that you liked.

But why do you think the wages of sin is NOT death for you?

You’re trying to change the subject again.

We are talking about the blood of Christ giving us a clear conscience so that we don’t wallow in guilt and depression over sin.

The verse that proves that to be true is the one you’re trying to add “in your sin”. Be a man of integrity and admit that “in your sin” is not in there.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[IndianaRob]

I think we better not go off topic here.

But think I'll just point out one scripture since it is pertinent to the thread: in Hebrews 6 where it says we are to leave the first principles and go on to perfection FOR it is impossible that those who were enlightened and made partakers of the Holy Spirit if they should fall away to renew them to repentance. I see a warning there that we need to keep growing and going on to completion otherwise we could fall away.

Now I don't say that if we don't reach perfection in this life that we are automatically fallen away and cut off, but we at least need to be following on in Christ, running the race and reaching for what lies ahead. We as parents don't expect the same things of our little children as we would when they are older, we dont' judge them the same. As children get "older" we expect more of them than when they were little. I think it is the same with the Lord. And if we remain as little children instead of growing up it leaves us more vulnerable to becoming a prey too...blown around by various winds of false doctrines that can endanger the soul.

And that word perfection in English, I don't believe it means perfect in the sense that one can never make a mistake, but it is speaking of a completion, a culmination of growth, the "finishing" of our faith....and I wonder if that is even a measure that will differ between individuals. Each one reaching their potential spiritually, whatever that means for each soul...?

Thank you for the answer and yes I agree we shouldn’t derail this thread. I was just curious what caused you to believe that way.

 

[Laurina]

That has been one of my favourite scriptures from the beginning. We are all growing in that respect I hope, and need to.

You are of course free to have an opinion about me. At least we agree in principle.

It's beyond me HOW you cannot see that what you believe (big assumption on my part that you believe what you post) and the Scripture is exactly opposite!!

Look again at YOUR statement in post #297:

"Leaning on our own understanding is what keeps us from being able to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture and being able to hold the truth in spirit."

Now, compare your statement to your "favorite scriptures" ...

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

Now please explain HOW your statement lines up with Proverbs 3:5-6.

It's nothing to do with my opinion of you...it's about lining your life up with God's word in spirit and in truth.

 

[Lizbeth]

You’re trying to change the subject again.

We are talking about the blood of Christ giving us a clear conscience so that we don’t wallow in guilt and depression over sin.

The verse that proves that to be true is the one you’re trying to add “in your sin”. Be a man of integrity and admit that “in your sin” is not in there.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

There are some souls for whom conceding even the tiniest thing is a fate worse than death.

We are not in our sins as long as we have faith in Christ.

But brother, I want to say.........the bible says blessed are you who mourn, for you will be comforted (at some future point)......there are times and seasons for everything, a time to rejoice as well as a time to mourn. We are not here to "feel" comfortable or to feel good about ourselves, although I sure do sometimes long for the comforts of childhood again (literally and figuratively, lol).

 

[Lizbeth]

It's beyond me HOW you cannot see that what you believe (big assumption on my part that you believe what you post) and the Scripture is exactly opposite!!

Look again at YOUR statement in post #297:

"Leaning on our own understanding is what keeps us from being able to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture and being able to hold the truth in spirit."

Now, compare your statement to your "favorite scriptures" ...

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

Now please explain HOW your statement lines up with Proverbs 3:5-6.

It's nothing to do with my opinion of you...it's about lining your life up with God's word in spirit and in truth.

The natural man can't perceive the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. His word is lamp unto our feet and light unto our path. Does that address your question, I'm not sure I understood.

Epi doesn't seem to see how imputed righteousness as a free gift by FAITH not by works doesn't contradict holiness doctrine. They are not mutually exclusive. The carnal mind can only see one side of the coin at once, but we need to see the coin as a whole, both sides at once, so to speak.

 

[IndianaRob]

There are some souls for whom conceding even the tiniest thing is a fate worse than death.

We are not in our sins as long as we have faith in Christ.

But brother, I want to say.........the bible says blessed are you who mourn, for you will be comforted (at some future point)......there are times and seasons for everything, a time to rejoice as well as a time to mourn. We are not here to "feel" comfortable or to feel good about ourselves, although I sure do sometimes long for the comforts of childhood again (literally and figuratively, lol).

For sure, there are things that we mourn but one of the many things Christ came to do was to give us a clear conscience from sin.

We have a clear conscience because Christ freed us from the law and all things are lawful for us. Those who accept that liberty usually don’t sin much any way because they have the fruits of the spirit, a new nature. But if they slip up, they ask for forgiveness and move on, they don’t dwell on it.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I just saw something of note where episkopos quoted Genesis 4:6-7.
I at first thought he had somehow spliced 2 different verses together into one.
But he didn’t and the other similar verse is Genesis 3:16 and I think that one has more meaning than I ever saw, and can be seen in the spirit of the words, as speaking of Adam and Eve but also as us and Christ our husband.

Then, I recalled Paul twice trying to convey some spirit to those he was speaking to - once to say there was a deeper meaning and God wasn’t only speaking about oxen in a verse and a second time where he was talking about a man and his wife and said he was talking about the church (the wife/the woman/bride) and Jesus (the husband).

Gen 3:16
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.

Gen 4:7 (what episkopos quoted)
And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it. (Rule over it).

Eph 5:32 Is where Paul tries To convey that when he was talking of husband and wife he was meaning not just humanly but was speaking about the mystery of Christ and us.

Its all tied together

 

[MostlyConfused]

I just saw something of note where episkopos quoted Genesis 4:6-7.
I at first thought he had somehow spliced 2 different verses together into one.
But he didn’t and the other similar verse is Genesis 3:16 and I think that one has more meaning than I ever saw, and can be seen in the spirit of the words, as speaking of Adam and Eve but also as us and Christ our husband.

Then, I recalled Paul twice trying to convey some spirit to those he was speaking to - once to say there was a deeper meaning and God wasn’t only speaking about oxen in a verse and a second time where he was talking about a man and his wife and said he was talking about the church (the wife/the woman/bride) and Jesus (the husband).

Gen 3:16
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.

Gen 4:7 (what episkopos quoted)
And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it. (Rule over it).

Eph 5:32 Is where Paul tries To convey that when he was talking of husband and wife he was meaning not just humanly but was speaking about the mystery of Christ and us.

Its all tied together

And now I’m laughing because I’m probably the only one who hadn’t already seen it!

 

[Laurina]

The natural man can't perceive the things of the spirit because they are spiritually discerned. His word is lamp unto our feet and light unto our path. Does that address your question, I'm not sure I understood.

Epi doesn't seem to see how imputed righteousness as a free gift by FAITH not by works doesn't contradict holiness doctrine. They are not mutually exclusive. The carnal mind can only see one side of the coin at once, but we need to see the coin as a whole, both sides at once, so to speak.

Lizbeth, you have NOT answered or even addressed my question!! You didn't even come close!! Do you even see my question?? I asked you to compare YOUR statement with
Proverbs 3:5-6. ‍


One of these things is NOT like the other,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you guess which thing is not like the other?
Before I finish this song.

Dare to compare!!!

 

[Lizbeth]

Lizbeth, you have NOT answered or even addressed my question!! You didn't even come close!! Do you even see my question?? I asked you to compare YOUR statement with
Proverbs 3:5-6. ‍


One of these things is NOT like the other,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you guess which thing is not like the other?
Before I finish this song.

Dare to compare!!!

Wow, why are you shouting? And copying Epi's belittling ways. If there is something you want to point out you are free to do so, but I'm not conversing with someone who is talking to me like this. Have a nice afternoon.

 

[Lizbeth]

For sure, there are things that we mourn but one of the many things Christ came to do was to give us a clear conscience from sin.

We have a clear conscience because Christ freed us from the law and all things are lawful for us. Those who accept that liberty usually don’t sin much any way because they have the fruits of the spirit, a new nature. But if they slip up, they ask for forgiveness and move on, they don’t dwell on it.

I'll try to come back to this, probably tomorrow unless I get a second wind later today. Getting tired and I'm apt to ramble and make a mess of things when I'm tired.

 

[Laurina]

Wow, why are you shouting? And copying Epi's belittling ways. If there is something you want to point out you are free to do so, but I'm not conversing with someone who is talking to me like this. Have a nice afternoon.

Hahaha, I'm not shouting....I see that we are totally missing each other here...we are not understanding each other at all!! You are assuming I'm shouting (which I'm not, just surprised, thus the exclaimation marks) and I'm in disbelief of our lack of communication skills!! I don't think it helps to point....I was trying....
Likewise, have a wonderful weekend! :)