Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[Grailhunter]

I've never used the term new Israel in my life. That is your invented term. I've told you and showed you that we are the Israel of God today. You have no rebuttal for that. You have to invent terms to try and justify your error.

We are not the new Israel, we ae not the Israel of God, we are not the spiritual Israel or the true Israel.

 

[WPM]

We are not the new Israel, we ae not the Israel of God, we are not the spiritual Israel or the true Israel.

Ephesians 2:10-13 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship – Strong’s 4174) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Which "Israel" which we previously aliens from, and were once "far off" from, have we been brought "nigh by the blood of Christ" to in this NT period - natural or spiritual Israel?

 

[Grailhunter]

Ephesians 2:10-13 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship – Strong’s 4174) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Which "Israel" which we previously aliens from, and were once "far off" from, have we been brought "nigh by the blood of Christ" to in this NT period - natural or spiritual Israel?

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Before Paul's ministry the Gentiles....the Pagans were excluded. Paul's ministry brought salvation to them. Nothing about them being part of Israel now. It is historical summary.

 

[WPM]

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Before Paul's ministry the Gentiles....the Pagans were excluded. Paul's ministry brought salvation to them. Nothing about them being part of Israel now. It is historical summary.

LOL. I just quoted it. You are fighting with the actual inspired text. The context of the passage in view is basically comparing the dark hopeless condition the Gentiles found themselves in before the cross to the liberated enlightened position those Gentiles who embraced Christ were after the cross. It is only upon conversion that our sins are washed away and the blood of Jesus becomes effectual. Through Calvary, the believing Gentile has been brought into a new dominion and therefore enjoys a new citizenship, with its consequential new benefits. The believing Gentile has been given favor with God and has now fully entered into that which they were once estranged from: The believing Gentile has been given favor with God and has now fully entered into that which they were once estranged from:

1. Christ
2. The citizenship of Israel
3. The covenants of promise
4. Spiritual hope
5. Union with God in this present world

This passage is speaking of five distinct, yet inextricably linked, states of alienation that the Gentile believer once experienced before they received the glorious Gospel of Christ. Paul the Apostle makes it clear that all five have been graciously opened up to the Gentiles since Christ’s first advent. The Gentile believer can now experience God in the same way the Jew could prior to the cross through their surrender to Christ and their trust in “the blood of Christ.” Gentiles Christians under the new covenant now enjoy the same undeserved favor and blessing that Israeli Jewish believers did under the old covenant. We essentially see the incorporation of the once darkened Gentiles into true Israel. They now share with Israel its Messiah, Israeli citizenship, spiritual covenants, promises, hope and God.”

 

[WPM]

We are not the new Israel, we ae not the Israel of God, we are not the spiritual Israel or the true Israel.

You might not be, but the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ is.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. I just quoted it. You are fighting with the actual inspired text. The context of the passage in view is basically comparing the dark hopeless condition the Gentiles found themselves in before the cross to the liberated enlightened position those Gentiles who embraced Christ were after the cross.

Most Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles, years after the cross.

Through Calvary, the believing Gentile has been brought into a new dominion and therefore enjoys a new citizenship, with its consequential new benefits.

They were saved by Yeshua during Paul's ministry......New citizenship.....we are children of God.....citizenship would imply a country or state. No and none for citizen of Israel.

 

[Grailhunter]

You might not be, but the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ is.

The Church of Christ not Israel.

 

[WPM]

Most Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles, years after the cross.


They were saved by Yeshua during Paul's ministry......New citizenship.....we are children of God.....citizenship would imply a country or state. No and none for citizen of Israel.

LOL. Which citizenship have we been brought into? Your fight is with Scripture.

Ephesians 2:10-13 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship – Strong’s 4174) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Which "Israel" which we previously aliens from, and were once "far off" from, have we been brought "nigh by the blood of Christ" to in this NT period - natural or spiritual Israel?

 

[WPM]

The Church of Christ not Israel.

The Church of Christ is true Israel today. You just do not like that. It cuts across what you've been taught.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. Which citizenship have we been brought into? Your fight is with Scripture.

Ephesians 2:10-13 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship – Strong’s 4174) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Which "Israel" which we previously aliens from, and were once "far off" from, have we been brought "nigh by the blood of Christ" to in this NT period - natural or spiritual Israel?

politeuma: Citizenship, commonwealth
Original Word: πολίτευμα
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: politeuma
Pronunciation: po-LEE-tyoo-mah
Phonetic Spelling: (pol-it'-yoo-mah)
KJV: conversation
NASB: citizenship
Word Origin: [from G4176 (πολιτεύομαι - conduct)]

1. a community
2. (abstractly) citizenship (figuratively)

It can mean citizenship, in this case excluded from the community of Christians.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Before Paul's ministry the Gentiles....the Pagans were excluded. Paul's ministry brought salvation to them. Nothing about them being part of Israel now. It is historical summary.

Can you answer his question? Which Israel is it that Gentile believers were formerly excluded from and not citizens of that were brought near and made fellow citizens of by the blood of Christ?

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation....19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. I just quoted it. You are fighting with the actual inspired text. The context of the passage in view is basically comparing the dark hopeless condition the Gentiles found themselves in before the cross to the liberated enlightened position those Gentiles who embraced Christ were after the cross. It is only upon conversion that our sins are washed away and the blood of Jesus becomes effectual. Through Calvary, the believing Gentile has been brought into a new dominion and therefore enjoys a new citizenship, with its consequential new benefits. The believing Gentile has been given favor with God and has now fully entered into that which they were once estranged from: The believing Gentile has been given favor with God and has now fully entered into that which they were once estranged from:

1. Christ
2. The citizenship of Israel
3. The covenants of promise
4. Spiritual hope
5. Union with God in this present world

This passage is speaking of five distinct, yet inextricably linked, states of alienation that the Gentile believer once experienced before they received the glorious Gospel of Christ. Paul the Apostle makes it clear that all five have been graciously opened up to the Gentiles since Christ’s first advent. The Gentile believer can now experience God in the same way the Jew could prior to the cross through their surrender to Christ and their trust in “the blood of Christ.” Gentiles Christians under the new covenant now enjoy the same undeserved favor and blessing that Israeli Jewish believers did under the old covenant. We essentially see the incorporation of the once darkened Gentiles into true Israel. They now share with Israel its Messiah, Israeli citizenship, spiritual covenants, promises, hope and God.”

Agree. Paul was very explicit about this in Ephesians 2, but dispensationalists still don't get it. They like to pride themselves on taking scripture literally "as written", but when it comes to passages like Ephesians 2:11-22 they suddenly don't stick to their normal biblical hermeneutic. How convenient.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

politeuma: Citizenship, commonwealth
Original Word: πολίτευμα
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: politeuma
Pronunciation: po-LEE-tyoo-mah
Phonetic Spelling: (pol-it'-yoo-mah)
KJV: conversation
NASB: citizenship
Word Origin: [from G4176 (πολιτεύομαι - conduct)]

1. a community
2. (abstractly) citizenship (figuratively)

It can mean citizenship, in this case excluded from the community of Christians.

Paul said Gentile believers were once excluded from citizenship in the commonwealth of Israel, but are "now fellow citizens" with Jewish believers because of the blood of Christ. Fellow citizens of what? The commonwealth of Israel. Spiritual Israel. The Israel of God. Whatever you want to call the Israel that only consists of "the community of Christians".

 

[WPM]

politeuma: Citizenship, commonwealth
Original Word: πολίτευμα
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: politeuma
Pronunciation: po-LEE-tyoo-mah
Phonetic Spelling: (pol-it'-yoo-mah)
KJV: conversation
NASB: citizenship
Word Origin: [from G4176 (πολιτεύομαι - conduct)]

1. a community
2. (abstractly) citizenship (figuratively)

It can mean citizenship, in this case excluded from the community of Christians.

LOL. You are doing your best to reject what the text says. It actually says the "citizenship of Israel." Hello! It is not talking about the citizenship of Ireland, Italy, or Iceland.

 

[WPM]

Agree. Paul was very explicit about this in Ephesians 2, but dispensationalists still don't get it. They like to pride themselves on taking scripture literally "as written", but when it comes to passages like Ephesians 2:11-22 they suddenly don't stick to their normal biblical hermeneutic. How convenient.

It's not just that they do not get it, they do not want to get it. To accept what the Bible says would force them to renounce what they believe. They are fighting with the sacred text.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Church of Christ is true Israel today. You just do not like that. It cuts across what you've been taught.

Again the scripture that says Christianity is the true Israel.
It cuts acrossed what the scriptures say.
It is easy enough for the scriptures to say that "Christianity is the true Israel" but it does not.

 

[WPM]

Again the scripture that says Christianity is the true Israel.
It cuts acrossed what the scriptures say.
It is easy enough for the scriptures to say that "Christianity is the true Israel" but it does not.

You are a master at avoiding and twisting Scripture. Answer the questions above. Which Israel is it that Gentile believers were formerly excluded from and were not citizens of that they have now been brought near to and have been made fellow citizens of by the blood of Christ?

 

[WPM]

Again the scripture that says Christianity is the true Israel.
It cuts acrossed what the scriptures say.
It is easy enough for the scriptures to say that "Christianity is the true Israel" but it does not.

Who are the true circumcision today?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. You are doing your best to reject what the text says. It actually says the "citizenship of Israel." Hello! It is not talking about the citizenship of Ireland, Italy, or Iceland.

Isn't it funny how the self-proclaimed literalists suddenly don't interpret scripture so literally anymore when it doesn't agree with their doctrine. Yet, we (amils) get accused of spiritualizing everything, which is nothing more than a false accusation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's not just that they do not get it, they do not want to get it.

Yes, that is true. They believe what they want to believe. You can show them that 1 + 1 = 2, but they want to believe 1 + 1 = 11 instead no matter how much evidence is presented to show that 1 + 1 = 2.

To accept what the Bible says would force them to renounce what they believe. They are fighting with the sacred text.

Agree. It's unbelievable to me for anyone to be so stubborn that they will just ignore the mountains of scriptural evidence against their view just because they are too prideful to admit that their doctrine was wrong or that they just prefer to believe what feels best to them regardless of what scripture teaches.