After your born again do you think you will never sin again?

[Lambano]

AoG do you know there are 2 types of sin, or have you been taught the heresy of "sin is sin."

Historically, the Roman Catholic church would agree with you in their differentiation of "Mortal sins" (sins unto death) and "Venial sins".

​

Co-pilot says regarding Mortal vs. Venial sins....

Mortal sin is a grave offense that destroys charity and separates a person from God, while venial sin wounds but does not sever the relationship with Him.​

Definition and Core Difference​

Mortal sin is a serious violation of God’s law that destroys charity in the heart and turns a person away from God by preferring an inferior good over Him. It requires three conditions: the act must be of grave matter, committed with full knowledge, and done with deliberate consent (CCC 1855-1857) (www.vatican.va+1). Examples include murder, adultery, theft, and blasphemy (catholicus.eu.) Because mortal sin removes sanctifying grace, reconciliation through the Sacrament of Confession is normally necessary for forgiveness (catholicismexplained.com.)​

​

Venial sin, by contrast, is a lesser offense that wounds but does not destroy charity. It may involve minor faults, such as impatience, small lies, or thoughtless words, and does not completely sever the relationship with God. Venial sins can be forgiven through prayer, acts of penance, or participation in the sacraments, even outside of confession​

 

[Lambano]

Martin Luther "Sin boldly"):
"If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard, for you are quite a sinner."

This one I have a better feel for because I spent over 10 years on a Reformed forum. Luther is coming from a Catholic background.

Luther’s own experience with confession was intense and formative. As a monk, he practiced confession daily, sometimes for hours, meticulously reviewing the Ten Commandments, the seven deadly sins, and the Sermon on the Mount, often tormented by his awareness of sin and fear of God’s judgment This rigorous self-examination caused him physical and emotional distress, but it also led him to understand that true repentance was not about self-imposed penances but a heartfelt turning to God​

The story goes that Luther's parish priest grew weary of Luther's constant need for absolution and told him, "Martin, come back when you have some real sins to confess."

Anyway, the understanding that Christ's sacrifice covered ALL of his sins was a huge psychological and spiritual relief to him. Hence what he wrote about "sin boldly". It's about trust in Christ and His sacrifice, not about your sins. You either believe it, or you don't

 

[Armour of God]

You struggle also with your “mind”, that has thoughts appear you do not like.

Those are not “Commissions” of sin.

Commissions of sins?
Is that sinful actions?

Most Christians Admit…”they (intentionally , knowingly) Commit sin”?
I could not say that is so

I said
"Most Christians admit they sin, usually unwillingly but sometimes even willingly"

So usually unintentional.
Sometimes intentional.

I believe “every” human is a sinner…
I believe God “Forgives”, ( some mens ) sin…
Of being naturally born (IN sin.), unbelief.
Of having NOT believed, and (then does believe.)

Big picture…
Sin IS Against God.
Sin Against God IS “UN-Belief”.
Only God Forgives Sin.
Forgiven Sin, IS For HAVING “HAD” Unbelief.

True… man still “sees” his body of “sin”, and Carry’s that Knowledge.

True… God does NOT “change” a mans “ever thinking, ciphering, silly to mean thoughts MIND”.

True… Mens MINDFUL thoughts, Can and Do, lead some men to “ACT” on those Mindful thoughts … and intentionally… lie, trick, fool, cheat, steal, TO other men…
Sins? No
Trespasses against men? Yes
Men can Forgive Trespasses? Yes

But isn't a trespass against humans a sin?
If sinful thoughts, lying, stealing, cheating etc are not sins
Then what exactly are sins?

I believe “every” human is a sinner…
I believe God “Forgives”, ( some mens ) sin…
Of being naturally born (IN sin.), unbelief.
Of having NOT believed, and (then does believe.)

Big picture…
Sin IS Against God.
Sin Against God IS “UN-Belief”.
Only God Forgives Sin.
Forgiven Sin, IS For HAVING “HAD” Unbelief.

True… man still “sees” his body of “sin”, and Carry’s that Knowledge.

True… God does NOT “change” a mans “ever thinking, ciphering, silly to mean thoughts MIND”.

True… Mens MINDFUL thoughts, Can and Do, lead some men to “ACT” on those Mindful thoughts … and intentionally… lie, trick, fool, cheat, steal, TO other men…
Sins? No
Trespasses against men? Yes
Men can Forgive Trespasses? Yes

The struggle, of a man, IS to “control his OWN MINDS Thoughts.”
To NOT ACT…on devious plots, schemes, his own Mind conjures up, to cause harm, hurt toward another human.

That IS an Ongoing lifelong “practice”…to oppress, reject, such Thoughts…
Called working toward the goal…
To have a MIND …”like Christ”.

In conclusion…
Men can “Remember, dwell on having HAD the Sin of Unbelief Against God…
However, a Man God has Forgiven for having HAD unbelief… God Himself Remembers “no more” that mans “prior unbelief”.

That mans “forgiven Sin” is “covered”, with Gods “Spirit, Power, Pure Light”, and the “darkness of that prior, forgiven Sin, no longer visible”… or Remembered.

The big picture IS “Spiritual”…”unseen”…regarding the “transformation” of a “Natural man Against God”… to a “Natural mans Desire, free-willingness, to Accept Gods Offering, to BE MADE, wholly (body, soul, spirit) Acceptable to HAVE a Forever One on one Relationship WITH God.

The Order, the Way, Method, Timing is According to Gods Protocol.

Many are called…
Many will “try” (taste)…spit it out.
Few will “commit” (eat)…
Few will obtain Becoming “yoked” with God Forever.
Few HAVE obtained Becoming “Yoked” with God Forever.

Men who “struggle” with their “bodies still carrying its “natural sin”… and “mindful thoughts” they can not stop…

Need to… Stop focusing on their Body, God Already, has Covered and Cleansed.
And Continue to Oppressing, rejecting their own Minds “devious” thoughts.

We have … IN this World…Umpteen “clinical Names and synthetic compound manufactured drugs”… to “supposedly MASK / Bandaid” Devious thoughts of THE MIND…
When, it is a spiritual warfare between the persons Own Hearts Thoughts and Minds Thoughts …
That ONLY the Power of Great Spiritual Physician can Heal.

So I think your saying that a born again Cristian might still unintentionally sin or have sinful thoughts but will not act on those sinful thoughts or knowingly sin.
Is that right?
I can agree with that.

But saying your free from sinning includes those sinful thoughts and unknowing sins.

What your really saying is your free from intentionally committing sinful acts.
Would you agree with that?

The Truth IS, only the individual and God knows Which individuals have Heartfully Surrendered their own Life unto God.

True. Praise be to God

 

[Armour of God]

We are sinless in the fact that all of our sins have been forgiven...past, present and future and none of them will be counted against us.

But do we still sin? Yes.

As @Jericho posted above...."Being saved doesn't prevent anyone from sinning. We still have the free will to choose to sin or not, and we still live in a corrupted body that has its own fleshly desires. But a true conversion should reduce the desire and frequency to sin. And if one does sin, it should produce a sense of regret and the desire for repentance."

Well spoken my friend.
I agree with that.
Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[Armour of God]

It seems that when we say "free from ever sinning", some people are only talking about intentionally committing sinful acts.

Whereas most of us are talking about sinful thoughts and unintentional sin sinful acts as well.

I agree that true Christians will rarely willingly commit sinful acts, but it does still happen occasionally with some of us.

That's why we must sincerely repent and God will forgive us for our sinful acts, intentional or unintentional, and our sinful thoughts.

My confession.
Spiritual warfare plays out in me, the battleground is in my mind.
The evil one tempts me, he entices me, he belittles me and he provokes me. He puts sinful thoughts of lust, envy, greed and desire into my mind.

But with the armour of God on me, I can overcome those wicked thoughts and prevent myself from acting out on them.

Praise be to God

 

[ProDeo]

I'll go over my interpretation of 1 John 3:9 again for the purposes of this thread.

The stated purpose of John's letter is up front in chapter 2 verse 1: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. I once counted them: John exhorts his "little children" in various ways to not sin more than 20 times in 5 chapters. Now, in chapter 3 verse 1, John establishes our identity as Children of God: See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! And in verse 9, John appeals to that identity: You are Children of God, and Children of God do not sin. That is completely consistent with John's stated purpose of his letter.

I'll also point out that if John thought his "little children" could not sin, this letter would not be necessary, and it would never have been written at all. And if he is assuming that his "little children" are not "born again", he should be telling them how to get "born again" if he wants them to stop sinning (assuming the "born again" cannot sin). Or (if John was Paul), he should be telling them how to "walk in the Spirit".

Agree.

And as such many translations have changed 1 John 3:9

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. [KJV and YLT]

into -

1Joh 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [ESV]

That is a correct observation but it is not what the Greek states, here the [KJV] and [YLT] are correct, the ESV and others not.

So, the puzzle remains, what does John mean with and he cannot sin? In case John means a born again will never sin again then he is contradicting himself on several places in the same letter. Then what does he mean? There are not other choices except that maybe the verse should be understood as - the indwelling Holy Spirit can not sin.

Imagine if it is true that a born again can not sin, how many people in this thread are born again ?

ZERO.

 

[shepherdsword]

Agree.

And as such many translations have changed 1 John 3:9

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. [KJV and YLT]

into -

1Joh 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. [ESV]

That is a correct observation but it is not what the Greek states, here the [KJV] and [YLT] are correct, the ESV and others not.

So, the puzzle remains, what does John mean with and he cannot sin? In case John means a born again will never sin again then he is contradicting himself on several places in the same letter. Then what does he mean? There are not other choices except that maybe the verse should be understood as - the indwelling Holy Spirit can not sin.

Imagine if it is true that a born again can not sin, how many people in this thread are born again ?

ZERO.

Actually the greek syntax is in the present tense which denotes a continuous action. So "cannot keep on sinning" can be a correct rendering (the "present" indicative is durative in it's aspect)

 

[ProDeo]

Actually the greek syntax is in the present tense which denotes a continuous action. So "cannot keep on sinning" can be a correct rendering (the "present" indicative is durative in it's aspect)

View attachment 88381

Do you mean the KJV and YLT have it wrong ?

 

[shepherdsword]

Do you mean the KJV and YLT have it wrong ?

It can be translated either way. Modern scholars consider the durative aspect the best one to emphasize.

 

[Lambano]

It can be translated either way. Modern scholars consider the durative aspect the best one to emphasize.

Emphasizing the durative aspect is one way to handle the gross contradiction between 1 John 3:9 (children of God cannot commit sin) and 1 John 1:8 (if we say we have no sin, we lie). Nobody wants to admit the Bible is self-contradictory, right?

So, NASB adds the word continually in italics and translates the Present Active Indicative of poieo to "practices" in verse 6 to emphasize the durative aspect of sinning.

(1 John 3:6) No one who remains in Him sins continually; no one who sins continually has seen Him or knows Him.​

​

(1 John 3:9) No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.​

Well, that addresses the logical contradiction, but it begs the question: How frequently can we sin before it's considered a continuous practice? Which is absolutely NOT the mindset John wants his readers to have.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

WOW! Great words of Holy Spirit filled wisdom.
The point I see from this little blurb is that ALL of our sins are covered. I don't think Luther was telling people to go sin because they can. As he said....We will commit sins while we are here....the point is, if you're a christian your sins are forgiven...no matter what.

Like this? 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I agree, burning someone at the stake for a religious belief is barbaric...but, it was 1552. It's what they did then.
It would be interesting to know what Michael Servetus was on trial for.

It had to do with believing that instead of the Trinity being three separate persons, he believed in one Triune God, Jesus who could manifest as the Father, or the Spirit or as Jesus. Like Paul explained in Colossians 2:9, For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Historically, the Roman Catholic church would agree with you in their differentiation of "Mortal sins" (sins unto death) and "Venial sins".

​

Co-pilot says regarding Mortal vs. Venial sins....

Mortal sin is a grave offense that destroys charity and separates a person from God, while venial sin wounds but does not sever the relationship with Him.​

Definition and Core Difference​

Mortal sin is a serious violation of God’s law that destroys charity in the heart and turns a person away from God by preferring an inferior good over Him. It requires three conditions: the act must be of grave matter, committed with full knowledge, and done with deliberate consent (CCC 1855-1857) (www.vatican.va+1). Examples include murder, adultery, theft, and blasphemy (catholicus.eu.) Because mortal sin removes sanctifying grace, reconciliation through the Sacrament of Confession is normally necessary for forgiveness (catholicismexplained.com.)​

​

Venial sin, by contrast, is a lesser offense that wounds but does not destroy charity. It may involve minor faults, such as impatience, small lies, or thoughtless words, and does not completely sever the relationship with God. Venial sins can be forgiven through prayer, acts of penance, or participation in the sacraments, even outside of confession​

Yes, exactly. This knowledge was the one doctrine of the Catholic Church that the Reformationists did not bring forward as Jesus commanded in Rev. 3:1-3 (Sardis is the period of the Reformation)

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

 

[Lambano]

But saying your free from sinning includes those sinful thoughts and unknowing sins.

Here I would gently point out that Jesus agrees with you with His emphasis on what comes out of a person's heart:

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person.” (Matthew 15:19-20a)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Here I would gently point out that Jesus agrees with you with His emphasis on what comes out of a person's heart:

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person.” (Matthew 15:19-20a)

Your heart when born again of the Spirit no longer commits those sins of the mind, for we are given the mind of Christ.

 

[Taken]

But isn't a trespass against humans a sin?
If sinful thoughts, lying, stealing, cheating etc are not sins
Then what exactly are sins?

Sin…IS the bodily condition of every natural (human) born man.

Sin… IS the violation of the Law.

I am not under (the Law).

I am under the Decree Of Grace, “To Hear AND Trust to Believe IN and Love the Lord God Almighty Above All things, and Love all humans:”
Which IS the “measure” by which, Gods “Gift of Faith” IS Given to such men.

Then…THE “power of KEEPING” of THAT Belief…
IS the “Mystery”.

Living men…can try their best with their own “power” to keep that belief…
**( BUT: Remember the Warnings…
There ARE… more “powerful influences” of this Earth, WHO WILL, continuously, try, promote, instigate…For men to Abandon their Belief / Faith)
** Powerful…influencers…demons, kings, rulers, teachers, celebrities, friends, parents, social medias, etc.

What iS Gods… “teaching” to obliterate…
Such “influences”?

The Believers … “willingness” …
#1 To call out TO Jesus and Confess his True Belief.
#2 To lay down his own body unto Death For his True Belief.

Why a bodily Death?
Because, once a Bodily Death occurs…The Body can NOT thereafter CHANGE its Belief”, by any negative influence or power.

The Point…
Belief in a man is Decided while his Body is Alive.
The Literal / Actual Gifts of …
SOUL restoration
and
SPIRIT rebirth
…ARE given a man…Immediately AFTER his bodily death.

The Point…
After a bodily Death… that man is OFF Limits, to be influenced by ANY POWER, to then “Denounce or Reject” his Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.

The Old Testament, Required A mans physical mortal Death, before receiving Salvation.

The New Better Testament Offering IS a mans willing bodily death by Crucifixion Bodily Death “WITH” Jesus’ Body.

A man who willingly chooses to be Crucified, bodily Dead with Jesus’ Body…
Receives his… Salvation, soul restored, spirit born again…THEN.

And what about his Dead crucified BODY?
It waits, to be Risen Glorified.
In the mean time…
That restored soul, that born again spirit…
Occupies…. Christ Jesus’ Risen glorified Body.

Called…Christ Jesus IN you and you in him.
Called…IN Christ.

Now Who’s “Power” KEEPS such mans “Belief, Faith, True and Faithful?

The Power of God, which IS greater than All other powers.

What other powers can draw that man Away from The Lord God Almighty?
None.

Can that man, EVER again commit the Sin of Unbelief IN God or Against God.
No.

Can that man Violate Laws, that have Already been Fulfilled?
No.

Can that man, ever stop Loving, God?
No.

Can that man ever be separated From the Lord God Almighty?
No…
(ie. Modernly OSAS)
Yes.

Can that man, ever stop loving all men?
No.

Can that man, disagree, dislike, strongly dislike (which means hate), ignore, not tolerate, distance from…other men?
Yes.

Can that man Trespass Against other men?
Yes.

Can a man “correct” his Trespass Against an other man?

Can a man “forgive” other men for Trespasses other men have committed Against him?
Yes.

Will God ALSO forgive men for “their Trespasses” they committed against men and have corrected?
Yes.

Was Mosaic Law abolished?
No.

Can men still follow / obey the Mosaic Law ?
Yes.

Was Mosaic Law fulfilled By Christ Jesus?
Yes.

Were Gentiles given the Mosaic Law?
No

“Humans” are individuals, freely choosing WHEN and WHAT they shall Believe, Commit to, Reject… and God Responds Accordingly…By, through, of His Supreme Authority and Power, Keeping those WITH Him…and Destroying the Lifeless WITHOUT Him.

Rom 4:
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
[16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 5:
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So I think your saying that a born again Cristian might still unintentionally sin

Sin? No
Trespass? Yes

or have sinful thoughts but will not act on those sinful thoughts or knowingly sin.
Is that right?

Sin is Against God (unbelief)
Acting on thoughts, intentional acts of (wrong doing, deceit against men,) are Trespasses against men.

If men could SIN Against men… Men could forgive Sin.
Does Scripture teach you… it is a SIN, to not Believe”IN men”…?
Or a mans Sin is “to not believe IN The Lord God”?

But saying your free from sinning includes those sinful thoughts and unknowing sins.

You call devious thoughts that pop in your mind….sinful…
Are they?
Are such thoughts…pertaining;
TO God ? A Sin Against God?
Or
TO men? A Trespass Against men?

You are equating … poor behavior of men toward men… as a Sin…
iF that were so, couldn’t MEN then “forgive you of that “supposed” Sin?

You have to decide if you Believe “men” can forgive Sin, or Not.
I say “No”.

A group of Israelites, Protested against Jesus…saying…
Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

And called For Jesus’ Death…

Because “Jesus was Forgiving People of their SINS…
Matt 9:
[2] And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

What your really saying is your free from intentionally committing sinful acts.
Would you agree with that?

No.
Rather a man is freed, From the consequence of eternal Separation From God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Armour of God]

Here I would gently point out that Jesus agrees with you with His emphasis on what comes out of a person's heart:

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person.” (Matthew 15:19-20a)

True. And in Matthew 5:28 Jesus says

"28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart"

Some people would say I am not born again for having unintentional sinful thoughts.

And some of those same people, such as 1stcenturylady above, try to exonerate themselves for intentionally committing sinful acts while labelling the rest of us not born again for having sinful thoughts.

She thought she would never sin again and yet admitted to intentionally lying several times. Now she's tormented by it

 

[Armour of God]

Sin…IS the bodily condition of every natural (human) born man.

Sin… IS the violation of the Law.

I am not under (the Law).

I am under the Decree Of Grace, “To Hear AND Trust to Believe IN and Love the Lord God Almighty Above All things, and Love all humans:”
Which IS the “measure” by which, Gods “Gift of Faith” IS Given to such men.

Then…THE “power of KEEPING” of THAT Belief…
IS the “Mystery”.

Living men…can try their best with their own “power” to keep that belief…
**( BUT: Remember the Warnings…
There ARE… more “powerful influences” of this Earth, WHO WILL, continuously, try, promote, instigate…For men to Abandon their Belief / Faith)
** Powerful…influencers…demons, kings, rulers, teachers, celebrities, friends, parents, social medias, etc.

What iS Gods… “teaching” to obliterate…
Such “influences”?

The Believers … “willingness” …
#1 To call out TO Jesus and Confess his True Belief.
#2 To lay down his own body unto Death For his True Belief.

Why a bodily Death?
Because, once a Bodily Death occurs…The Body can NOT thereafter CHANGE its Belief”, by any negative influence or power.

The Point…
Belief in a man is Decided while his Body is Alive.
The Literal / Actual Gifts of …
SOUL restoration
and
SPIRIT rebirth
…ARE given a man…Immediately AFTER his bodily death.

The Point…
After a bodily Death… that man is OFF Limits, to be influenced by ANY POWER, to then “Denounce or Reject” his Belief IN the Lord God Almighty.

The Old Testament, Required A mans physical mortal Death, before receiving Salvation.

The New Better Testament Offering IS a mans willing bodily death by Crucifixion Bodily Death “WITH” Jesus’ Body.

A man who willingly chooses to be Crucified, bodily Dead with Jesus’ Body…
Receives his… Salvation, soul restored, spirit born again…THEN.

And what about his Dead crucified BODY?
It waits, to be Risen Glorified.
In the mean time…
That restored soul, that born again spirit…
Occupies…. Christ Jesus’ Risen glorified Body.

Called…Christ Jesus IN you and you in him.
Called…IN Christ.

Now Who’s “Power” KEEPS such mans “Belief, Faith, True and Faithful?

The Power of God, which IS greater than All other powers.

What other powers can draw that man Away from The Lord God Almighty?
None.

Can that man, EVER again commit the Sin of Unbelief IN God or Against God.
No.

Can that man Violate Laws, that have Already been Fulfilled?
No.

Can that man, ever stop Loving, God?
No.

Can that man ever be separated From the Lord God Almighty?
No…
(ie. Modernly OSAS)
Yes.

Can that man, ever stop loving all men?
No.

Can that man, disagree, dislike, strongly dislike (which means hate), ignore, not tolerate, distance from…other men?
Yes.

Can that man Trespass Against other men?
Yes.

Can a man “correct” his Trespass Against an other man?

Can a man “forgive” other men for Trespasses other men have committed Against him?
Yes.

Will God ALSO forgive men for “their Trespasses” they committed against men and have corrected?
Yes.

Was Mosaic Law abolished?
No.

Can men still follow / obey the Mosaic Law ?
Yes.

Was Mosaic Law fulfilled By Christ Jesus?
Yes.

Were Gentiles given the Mosaic Law?
No

“Humans” are individuals, freely choosing WHEN and WHAT they shall Believe, Commit to, Reject… and God Responds Accordingly…By, through, of His Supreme Authority and Power, Keeping those WITH Him…and Destroying the Lifeless WITHOUT Him.

Rom 4:
[15] Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
[16] Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 5:
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.



Sin? No
Trespass? Yes



Sin is Against God (unbelief)
Acting on thoughts, intentional acts of (wrong doing, deceit against men,) are Trespasses against men.

If men could SIN Against men… Men could forgive Sin.
Does Scripture teach you… it is a SIN, to not Believe”IN men”…?
Or a mans Sin is “to not believe IN The Lord God”?



You call devious thoughts that pop in your mind….sinful…
Are they?
Are such thoughts…pertaining;
TO God ? A Sin Against God?
Or
TO men? A Trespass Against men?

You are equating … poor behavior of men toward men… as a Sin…
iF that were so, couldn’t MEN then “forgive you of that “supposed” Sin?

You have to decide if you Believe “men” can forgive Sin, or Not.
I say “No”.

A group of Israelites, Protested against Jesus…saying…
Luke 5:
[21] And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

And called For Jesus’ Death…

Because “Jesus was Forgiving People of their SINS…
Matt 9:
[2] And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.



No.
Rather a man is freed, From the consequence of eternal Separation From God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Here are some verses that tell us that thoughts can be sins.

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person.” (Matthew 15:19-20a)

"28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart"
Matthew 5:28

I still don't understand your difference between a trespass and a sin. Can you please list some examples of both.
Is murder or adultery a sin or just a trespass against men?

 

[Lambano]

"28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart"

Ah, yes. The sin that convicts about 95% of heterosexual men.

 

[Lambano]

Yes, exactly. This knowledge was the one doctrine of the Catholic Church that the Reformationists did not bring forward as Jesus commanded in Rev. 3:1-3

Key point relative to this topic: The fact that the Catholic Church had to develop rituals to address restoration after Mortal sins (and to a lesser extend for Venial sins) indicates that the common experience of Christians for the last 2000 years is that believers still do sin.

What does NOT seem to be common experience is believers "walking in the spirit", which is why I find the topic interesting.