No man living shall be justified.........in their own right or by their own righteousness. That is the very reason we need Christ in us and to be justified through Him.
Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2
- Thread starter Episkopos
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
well finally we have some honesty here . you sure are walking by the letter all right .
Why is the question being asked not answered .
I gave epi plenty of time to do so . What is so hard about saying one must FIRST BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
that gospel . This whole ado co uld have been put on hold if perhaps that were answered .
Why is it so hard f or epi who preaches as much as i do against false hyper grace
TO also say as i DO , that without believing on JESUS aint any of it at tainable , nor will one be saved .
IN fact if one hears the gospel and believes not , THEY DO CALL GOD a liar .
What is so hard about saying whether what i say is true or false .
Do you believe one must BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST , the gospel they all preached
about HOW GOD also rose him from the dead . To conf ess HIM by mouth and bleieve from the heart
that GOD has rose him from the dead . DO you BELIEVE that one must believe this , OR
do you believe one can just walk in the spirit WITHOUT beleiving the gospel of JESUS CHRIST .
Please answer and i hope epi will answer this too
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
How can one who calls GOD a liar ever be justified .
And if one believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the Son , oh they do call GOD a liar .
I cant get epi or any of them to agree with that .
EVEN cornelious was not yet saved . Though he too did much good alms and had many good prayers to God .
And notice that when Corneliious heard , WHAT HE NEEDED TO DO , he BELIEVED .
proving his wo rks were wrought of God . No man , no woman
who hears that gospel and then fails to believe is saved . IN fact they call GOD a liar .
Calling GOD a liar dont seem to be VERY RIGHTEOUS now does it .
FAILING to HONOR the SON is f or sure and for certain a second death sentence .
And teaching all day about holiness , righteousness , justification and etc
BY OUR OWN MEANS , Is about as deadly as it can be .
For by the works of the law shall NO FLESH , that is right , NONE be justified . TIS BY FAITH .
And if one bleieves not then they have NO FAITH .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Exactly . WHY . WHY my dear sister were the jews cast out of their own tree .
They had the law of righteousness . WHY were they cast out of thier own tree .
THEY SOUGHT IT HOW . HOW did they seek the righteousness of the law . BY THEIR OWN MEANS
NOT BY FAITH . bingo .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
@amigo de christo I didn't see a reply to this post.
I bolded what you should read. Explain the discrepancy between your message and Episkopos'.
Have YOU EVER listened, really listened to ANY of Episkopos' podcasts? That's what the discussion on these threads are suppose to be about...as in stick to the topic. Let me suggest you start with his lastest one linked below for your ease. (Since the one on this thread is part 2 of a part 5 series, and since you probably haven't listened to any, you'll not want to start in the middle of a 5 part series.)
Listen to this one. It's about The Purpose of Grace.
I await your honest (you can be honest, right??) response to this. Tell me what is wrong with what Episkopos says in it.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
so sorry but anyone can talk about the aspects of holiness and righteous living and etc
And yet as inclusivism does it makes BELIEF on Christ as unecessary .
The question you and epi should be asking yourselves is ,
IS why on earth is it so hard for you all to say Without BELEIF in CHRIST
none of this can even be done .
YOU do realize this entire time that i myself have always warned against that hyper g race
bla stuff . And yet this entire time i always reminded without Christ aint none of it truly possible.
Even now when others over the years kept telling epi
over and over and over again about the dire need to First believe on JESUS
and never once did he agree , rather he called it religious dogma .
Something always been wrong with that .
FOR Even if a h yper grace one had told me , that all i need to do is BELEIVE ON JESUS
I would have agreed that was true , HOWEVER i would THEN
have reminded them to beware cause many now f o llow another jesus
one that darn sure omits His teachings and accepts sins and even unbeleif .
YOU SEE NOW the problem . Epi never does t hat .
And even when asked questions , HE never really answers it simply .
See i know what inclusivism teaches . I also know its a second death sentence
for all who follow it and its jesus . Cause unbeleif in CHRIST JESUS is a clear sign
One does not know HIM . For by THE HOLY SPIRIT they would have called HIM LORD .
SO aint no holy spirit at work in anyone who fails to BELEIVE ON JESUS .
AND there aint NO HOLY SPIRIT at work in anyone , WHO THOUGH they claim to BELEIVE On HIM
follow some other jesus . Its that simple .
Preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM crucified . And STOP railing against those who do .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
OK because you sound like you are sober here...I will respond to this post because it sounds intelligible.
You put all emphasis on beliefs...that God or the bible does not. The demons also believe in Jesus...so you may have some company there.
That's not what faith in Christ is built on. Jesus said that hearers LOSE everything UNLESS they DO what Jesus says. So the the dire need is to OBEY Jesus.
The reason why I ignore your rantings is because they are NOT biblical, but they undermine true faith with a silly religious belief system that condemns the righteous and supports the demonic influences that have infiltrated the churches. So the dire need here is for you and those who support your foolishness to repent from carnal religious ideology...and turn to the living God....to DO as He says.
And stop judging the world. God will have mercy on whom He wills. You should read the sermon on the mount Matt. 5...read 1 Cor. 13 and learn how to love others and be merciful...and then read 2 Pet. 1 where we are to DO what righteous people do...even if they are not believers. Doing this may save your soul.
You have fully MISSED the whole point of the gospel.
The gospel to the WORLD and the righteous is BLESSED are the meek (not just the believing meek)...no matter what they believe. Beliefs don't justify demons..and they don't justify people either. We will ONLY be judged by what we DID.
Faith that is according to the bible, on the other hand, is for God's people who are translated to walk as Jesus did WITHOUT sin. Unleashing grace power by FAITH...the faith OF Christ...to do what He did and overcome as He did. That is the calling of saints. The elect. The good news for these is that they will rule and reign with Christ forever. But that training also gets people attacked by religious nuts like yourself. One must suffer the reproach of the self-righteous on the path of life.
So which standard do you want to be judged by???? the righteous standard of God's mercy on ALL of mankind who DO His will? Or the glory standard of walking like Jesus without sin? If you claim the higher standard without DOING it, then you will be rejected from God's presence into outer darkness.
I realize that I'm speaking way over the heads of people here who don't read to any decent level or comprehend anything they read, for the most part. So I urge people to read and re-read this IF they don't want to be condemned as religious hypocrites on judgment day.
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Huh....
I've raised children, and before that I babysat many, many children and babysat many more after raising my own. When a child throws a tantrum, you MUST ignore them since they are caught up in their overwhelming feelings and thus, unreasonable. They have absolutely no capacity to be reasonable while in that state. When you walk into another room, they follow you. They want what they want, but don't/can't SEE (or remember in your case) that it was available to them the whole time, but because of the tantrum was put away out of reach because of their present behaviour.
Your behaviour doesn't warrant answering because you must first recognize your own behaviour and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for it. You've been spreading lies, ranting, ... in short, not acting like a reasonable, responsible adult. (It's people like you that kept me from becoming a member on the 2 Christian sites I was ever a member of.) Oh, it can be cute at times, and comical at other times, BUT ALWAYS UNREASONABLE.
YOU DON'T LISTEN/COMPREHEND for any amount of time (possibly a handicap???). YET, your posts are SO LONG and hard to follow/comprehend (English a second language, or just poetically minded??? who knows) to say what?? (You just practicing your typing skills?) I have to read your posts 2 or 3 times to understand you...I have to admit, most of the time I just skip over your posts...it's not worth my time for the effort it takes me. I'm not interested in a one-sided relationship where IF YOU don't get what YOU WANT/NEED, you keep railing. In other words, are you finished with your tantrums?
Now, for ALL the effort I took, what did you think about the podcast??
Amen.
Jesus said ye MUST be born again to both see as well as enter the kingdom of God. And without holiness no one will see the Lord. There can be no holiness and seeing the Lord for anyone apart from having Christ in us and being begotten of His Spirit....the creation our new man.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
same JESUS that said blessed are the meek also said one MUST believe on HIM .
You just proved exactly why i have such a problem with yalls inclusvity .
Anyone who hears and b eleives NOT is actually calling GOD a liar .
DONT sound too meek to me to do such a thing epi . As i said inclusivism makes BELIEF on HIM as NOT a requirement .
That just made it a false gospel . we cant cliam to BELIEVE and yet always go about making it seem
as though unbelief is okay . Wanna hear what Peter and even paul told the jews .
After preaching JESUS to them they said BEWARE , lest that come upon you which is written .
Behold wonder and PERISH .
THEY all preached THE dire need TO BELIEVE ON JESUS and yes they also taught ALL things he taught .
SO hyper grace is OUT . SO TOO is inclusvism .
No man by THE HOLY SPIRIT calls JESUS accursed . AND by the SPIRIT they WOULD call HIM LORD .
BELEIF is a dire necessity . What will it mat ter if i gave my goods to the poor , IF i called GOD a liar .
Even the good i did could not negate the fact I CALL GOD A LIAR if I FAIL to BELIEVE HIS GOSPEL .
So trying to make it even seem like its okay if one believed NOT , IS NOT the gospel at all . ITS contrary to IT .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
until one actually BELIEVES its necesarry to HAVE to BELIEVE on JESUS , why would i entertain anything they taught .
As i said and wrote above , preaching holiness , righteousness , apart f rom BELEIF IN CHRIST
is dead and a death sentence .
Hey if you all wanna teach folks BELEIF on CHRIST aint necessary , THAT BE ON YOU and on epi .
And as hard as this might seem to beleive , YOU all are gonna regret that on JESUS day , only then ITS TOO late .
I suggest we preach the dire need to BELIEVE ON JESUS , AND teaching all things HE taught .
Dont do as did some jews who tried to get folks back under the law . YA cant be justified by the works of the law
And any who thinks so HAS FALLEN FROM GRACE . you sh ould be pointing TO JESUS , not to us , to HIM .
And i have zero problems telling and letting eveyone know , WITHOUT HIM i can do nothing
cept fail , cept fall far short , . ONLY BY HIM can i do that which truly pleases GOD above all .
GIVING ALL CREDIT HONOR AND GLORY UNTO HIS SON thus Giving HIM the GLORY . learn that .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Even the worst of men can at times do good works .
Just as what seems as good men do evil .
THERE IS NONE who is righteous , none who is truly GOOD according to what GOD calls GOOD and RIGHTEOUS .
And when folks fail to recognize the dire necessity to BELEIVE ON HIS SON
and rather find a way around that , THEY DISHONOR the SON and thus OH they DO dishonor the FATHER .
SEEING GOD has always desired the GLORY i do highly suggest that epi and laurina LEARN TO DO THIS .
Cause unbeleif IS exactly what got israel access DENIED RIGHT INTO that HOLY LAND .
And UNBELIEF in CHRIST is the CONDEMNATION .
Calling GOD a liar wont profit the man who did so , no matter if even he had given his goods to the poor .
Charity REJOICES IN THE TRUTH , NOT A LIE , NOT UNBELEIF .
so what is it gonna profit one if he had NOT charity . And answer is , NOTHING .
I shudder in terror for these people that actually make bleieve as if its okay to NOT beleive .
imagine standing before the HOLY GOD who has given ALL J UDGMENT UNTO THE SON
and then saying but LORD i gave food to the poor ,
Only to hear , YOU CALLED ME A LIAR . Their works WONT save them .
bdavidc
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You asked what is wrong with what Episkopos (J.F. Morin) teaches. Here it is plainly: he is teaching a false gospel, and you are defending it.
He says, “God ACCEPTS the righteous based on either works or faith. Both ways are God's ways.” Scripture says the exact opposite: “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28). Paul does not give two ways of acceptance before God. He says, “To him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5).
In the video you told people to listen to, Episkopos says grace is only a “sample,” that we must “purchase with our whole lives” the full measure, that salvation by grace through faith is only “half true,” and that the kingdom of God is a “meritocracy.” That is not grace. “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” (Romans 11:6).
Then he says, “It’s not the death of Jesus that justifies us.” That is a direct contradiction of the Word of God: “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9).
This is not a misunderstanding. These are his own words, and Scripture condemns them.
Yes, believers are commanded to walk in holiness. Yes, genuine faith produces obedience. But our obedience does not purchase grace, complete Christ's work, or become a second way of being accepted by God. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” (Titus 3:5).
You can bold his words all you want. That does not make them biblical. The test is not whether Episkopos sounds spiritual, talks about holiness, or claims people misunderstand him. The test is Scripture.
Paul already gave the verdict on anyone who changes the gospel: “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).
That is how serious this is. Stop defending the teacher and start testing the teaching against the Word of God.
You show your ignorance of God's ways. I never said that obedience purchases grace. Grace is a free gift given through faith. You THINK you know what that means but you don't. You only know what you think you know by reading a bible without the depth of understanding it takes to not either destroy righteousness or holiness.
Grace does NOT replace obedience as you suggest. You are confusing what God does with what we are to do. You are unlearned and a false teacher to seek to tear down a sound and balanced doctrine from God.
Grace empowers us to do what we can't do. It is miraculous by nature...giving us victory over sin...which you will deny in your unbelief. Instead you make grace a license to sin without any consequences. So all your accusations are turned back to you seven-fold. A false gospel...a sinful holiness and a lawless salvation...is what you teach...straight from the devil.
Those who pit grace against obedience would be better off to avoid anything to do with the gospel. Grace ENABLES a deeper obedience since the law doesn't empower us to fulfill the law...grace does.
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I agree his posts are hard to comprehend for my dyslectic eyes, long text in one block, uppercase mixed with lowercase, hard. As far I understand his posts his main concern (and he will correct me when I am wrong) is that the so called higher walk that is preached, holiness leading to sinless perfection is done in own strength and Jesus no longer is necessary. It's why he IMO keeps telling you, quoting him : until one actually BELIEVES its necesarry to HAVE to BELIEVE on JESUS
Perhaps you can address this.
bdavidc
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You are not answering the Scriptures. You are changing the subject and accusing me of teaching something I did not teach.
I never said grace replaces obedience. I never said grace is a license to sin. That accusation is false. Paul already answered it: “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid” (Romans 6:1-2). Biblical grace does not excuse sin. It breaks sin’s dominion: “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14).
But none of that rescues what you have taught.
You said God accepts people “based on either works or faith.” Scripture says, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law” (Romans 3:28).
You said grace must be “purchased with our whole lives.” Scripture says, “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace” (Romans 11:6).
You said, “It’s not the death of Jesus that justifies us.” Scripture says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9).
Those statements are not “balanced doctrine.” They contradict the Word of God.
And now you are trying to hide those contradictions behind talk about obedience and holiness. That will not work. Scripture teaches obedience as the fruit of salvation, not the price of grace and not another basis of justification. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us” (Titus 3:5).
You also accuse me of teaching “a lawless salvation.” That is simply bearing false witness against what I have said. I have repeatedly stated that genuine faith produces obedience. But good works follow salvation. They do not purchase it, complete it, or become another ground upon which God justifies a sinner.
Paul did not tolerate men corrupting the gospel, and neither should we: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).
So stop attacking a position I do not hold and answer the Bible.
Is a man justified by faith without the deeds of the law, as Romans 3:28 says, or not?
Is a sinner justified by Christ’s blood, as Romans 5:9 says, or not?
If your doctrine cannot survive those plain texts, then your doctrine is false. Scripture does not need to bow to your “depth of understanding.” Your understanding must bow to Scripture.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
He does that all and i do mean ALL the time . You did see how he responded to me about his inclusivity .
HE proved what i already knew about him all along . Like i said FOLKS would marvel if they KNEW
what incluisivians REALLY BELEIVE . A hint , THE GOPSEL OF JESUS HAS BEEN DENIED .
I've been curious. Do you use AI to generate your comments? Your website is littered with AI. I say this as an artist, who has an I for computer generated content.
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